How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

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evil_ash_xero
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How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by evil_ash_xero »

I have been getting back into shmups (took a breather), and now that we can look back at the Cave Box...how would you rank the games?

I thought they started off VERY strong, but some of the later games weren't as amazing as the early ones.
I would rank them...(and yeah, I put DeathSmiles above Ketusi and DOJ...this is personal preference, not exactly what's the "best")

EDIT: This will alter, time to time (as if anyone cares), because I took a big hiatus from shmupping, and am now playing these more regularly.
Also, I will toss in some info, just to make the list more interesting.

God Tier:
ESPGaluda II - This is one of my peak faves, from CAVE. People tend to give it grief, for being too hard...but whatever. It's just epic, and has amazing designs and gameplay. I would put this in CAVE's top 3 games, all together.
Mushihimesama Futari 1.5 - Everyone knows this one is great. Just put together amazingly well.
Guwange - This game has flaws. But the art kind of makes up for it.

Deity Tier:
DeathSmiles MBL - I love this game. I know the hardcore aren't that into it, but I just think it's a blast. And once again, Jun's designs are phenomenal. Also, it's a hori, but actually plays like one. Unlike most of CAVE's horis.
Ketsui - Great game. Duh. Nothing too "special" about it, other than being a great game. The port is good, but it's a little laggy. It's more responsive in MAME.
Do DonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou BL - I don't like it as much as DDP, but it's still really strong. I have problems with it, but it certainly will separate the men form the boys...or the obsessed from the sane. This port was improved, by the patch. But the load times are still poor, until you get the game going.

Demigod Tier:
Mushihimesama HD - I've ALWAYS thought this game was over-rated. It's a good game, but it doesn't rock my world. It is beautiful (which I can see now. the PS2 version always clouded that), and has amazing atmosphere. Also, it has two classic stages (3 and 4), which are really something.
Akai Katana Shin (for the Shin/Slash version) - Returning to this game, it's definitely better than I remember. The Shin version, is the only version. I think they kind of made this game good, with the home port. Adding an extra stage (which is a good one too), and coming up with much better controls, was really great. Also, it's the only manly game CAVE have made, since Ketsui. I mean, the guys look fey, but it'll pass. I would have loved a sequel to this. They could have really made a great game with the foundation laid here. I'll give them props for coming up with a pretty odd system, that works.
Muchi Muchi Pork! - Goofy and solid game. There isn't really much to say about it. Do you like fat girls?!
Do DonPachi: DaiFukkatsu Black Label - Black Label is the only version I can get into, thus far. I find the artwork to be a bit uninspired, but still solid. The bosses look awful. I'm not sure about it's difficulty yet. This was during their "let's get new players" phase, so it's not as hard as usual. I still have to figure out how easy it is. Over time, I may like this more than MMP. I'm sure some people think I'm insane for liking it less than MMP. :lol:


After that, there's Pink Sweets. Which I can't really see the appeal of. It's like a goofy Ibara, and it's missing all the cool stuff Ibara had. This is one of the few Cave games that I have almost no interest in at all.
I think all I am missing is the last Do DonPachi. Which seemed really blue. AND DeathSmiles II, which I will not play, unless someone just tosses it in front of me.

How would you rank 'em? Even though CAVE is dead, this was kind of a massive explosion of quality shmups, on this system. I have fond memories.
I don't think we're going to see something like that again.
Last edited by evil_ash_xero on Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:19 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by brentsg »

I would very nearly reverse your list, though AK might drop a few spots.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by trap15 »

Mushihimesama HD
Ketsui
Akai Katana
the rest is garbaggio
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by evil_ash_xero »

brentsg wrote:I would very nearly reverse your list, though AK might drop a few spots.
Interesting.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Skykid »

It always feels kind of silly to rank a whole bunch of amazing games into any kind of order - not to mention difficult - but what the hell.

DOJ BL - it's like the system was given god
Ketsui
Mushihimesama HD
Espgaluda II
Guwange
Akai Katana (Shin!)
Muchi Pork
Mushihimesama Futari 1.5
Deathsmiles

Again, they're all great games apart from Deathsmiles (although MBL does admittedly improve it tenfold) and I feel aggrieved not being able to put Akai Katana Shin even higher, it's just the others edge it out by a teeny margin.

And of course Futari is awesome too, I'm just so sick of it I want to puke whenever it's mentioned.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by city41 »

If ranking by quality of the port, then I have to put Mushi, Ketsui and DOJ at the bottom because they are Japan only. That's just annoying as all get out.

If ranking by quality of game:

DDP DOJ
Mushi Futari
Ketsui
Akai Katana
DDP Resurrection
Deathsmiles

The others I've not played very much, thank you region locking!
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Some-Mist »

Skykid wrote:DOJ BL - it's like the system was given god
great game, but screw those loading times... even with the patch.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by iconoclast »

Mushihimesama Futari - God Mode alone would make Futari the best game ever made. The five other modes are great too, of course.
Dodonpachi Daioujou - Almost entirely because of white label.
Akai Katana Shin - Literally everything about the game is excellent. Even the bugs & exploits in the arcade version help make it better.
Dodonpachi Saidaioujou - I'm sure I'll like this even more once I learn Expert and version 1.5.
Espgaluda II - I assume Cave never made a sequel because they perfected the Espgaluda formula in this game. (Same goes for Futari)
Deathsmiles - Both versions are excellent from top to bottom. The only issue I had with vanilla DS seems to be irrelevant nowadays.
Ketsui
Deathsmiles II - Mechanically better than DS1, but the game feels unfinished. An EX stage and maybe selectable difficulty would have helped a lot.
Muchi Muchi Pork! - Would have been top-tier if it wasn't for the excessive boss milking, but Yagawa's gonna Yagawa.
Mushihimesama
Guwange
Pink Sweets

I haven't played Daifukkatsu much, so I don't know where I'd put it. I suspect I'll like version 1.5 a lot once I get around to it, and I'll probably only like Strong style in BL since it looks similar to God Mode.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Strikers1945guy »

Going 100% personal preference:

Pink Sweets/Pork
DOJBL
EspGaluda II
Ketsui
DDP Daifukkatsu / BL
DDP SDOJ
Mushihimesama
Mushihimesama Futari / BL
Akai Katana
Guwange
.
.
.
.
Deathsmiles
Deathsmiles II

Ya, the Deathsmiles game to me are well... boring and horrid. Just me.

trap15 wrote:Mushihimesama HD
Ketsui
Akai Katana
the rest is garbaggio
No love for Yagawa and Pork? The PS arrange mode is awesome as well if you're not a fan of the regular arcade mode. Would have thought you would find some appeal in a Yagawa double pack.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Special World »

In terms of the games themselves rather than port quality, and allowing for the fact that I can never truly decide between all these games:

Mushi Futari Black Label
Dodonpachi DOJ Black Label
Pink Sweets Arrange
Espgaluda II
Mushihimesama
Deathsmiles IIX
Deathsmiles
Ketsui
Muchi Muchi Pork
Dodonpachi DFK Black Label
Dodonpachi Saidaioujou
Akai Katana
Guwange
...
...
...
Dodonpachi DFK 1.5

Ask me on a different day and it'll change completely. I love all these games except Akai Katana (the bosses are just terrible and Shin especially is too fiddly), Guwange (really cool but a bit bloodless and strict), and Dodonpachi DFK 1.5 (This is the only Cave game I actively don't like, although Arrange A is pretty good). Futari Black is definitely #1 though.

TC: If you haven't played Deathsmiles IIX, I would definitely play it. If you've played it and don't like it, then fine. But the game is really muuuch better than these boards would have you believe—the game's bad rap is entirely because of the graphics. But the scoring system is a ton of fun, there's a *bunch* of scoring items and bullets onscreen at once, and the soundtrack is one of Cave's most memorable. It's really quite good.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Feedbacker »

Some-Mist wrote:
Skykid wrote:DOJ BL - it's like the system was given god
great game, but screw those loading times... even with the patch.
The only turnoff of this version for me is the messed up shot sound effect.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by HydrogLox »

evil_ash_xero wrote: now that we can look back at the Cave Box...how would you rank the games?
First I thought the list was restricted to the games that were part of the "Cave Shooting Collection (Kan)" - but people keep bringing up "DoDonPachi DaiOuJou Black Label EXTRA" and "Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi" which weren't included because they were published by 5pb. Games/Mages. Inc. - so my question is why is no one listing DoDonPachi as released on Cave's "Instant Brain" given that DoDonPachi is pretty much "patient zero" to Cave's cult portfolio. Granted it is gimped without tate and configurable controls - but I figured it should be somewhere on the list of a Cave fan (and if you are enthusiastic enough you'd just rewire your arcade stick to suit ...).
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Special World »

because I can't imagine more than 7 people on this forum could be assed to play through a lengthy Japanese adventure game (see: the opposite of shmups) to play something they could download on PSN or play in MAME. Because of this, they don't associate it with Cave's 360 output, and don't have any perspective on how good of a port it is.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Eschatos
Strania
Caladrius
Ginga Force

Am I doing it right???
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Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by HydrogLox »

Special World wrote:because I can't imagine more than 7 people on this forum could be assed to play through a lengthy Japanese adventure game (see: the opposite of shmups).
Come on, that has been a non-issue for 2+ years now: Unlocking DoDonPachi in Instant Brain (Cave, XBox360, 2011)
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Special World »

HydrogLox wrote:
Special World wrote:because I can't imagine more than 7 people on this forum could be assed to play through a lengthy Japanese adventure game (see: the opposite of shmups).
Come on, that has been a non-issue for 2+ years now: Unlocking DoDonPachi in Instant Brain (Cave, XBox360, 2011)
replace my previous quote with "thats kind of a pain in the butt tho"

also no tate
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Shepardus »

"thats kind of a pain in the butt tho" as well as "everybody keeps forgetting that that exists."

I haven't actually played any of them on the Xbox, but I'd have to rate Ketsui as my favorite. Not sure beyond that.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Strikers1945guy »

Squire Grooktook wrote:Eschatos
Strania
Caladrius
Ginga Force

Am I doing it right???
No not enough Yagawa
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Skykid »

Some-Mist wrote:
Skykid wrote:DOJ BL - it's like the system was given god
great game, but screw those loading times... even with the patch.
Nothing has ever been worth the wait so much. They're not bad once you're playing, and it's a nigh-on perfect port that previously was only accessible by having a PCB, so you're saving a ton of cash. Also has X-Mode which is a ton of fun arrange.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Feedbacker »

It also has an excellent arranged soundtrack.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Strikers1945guy »

Skykid wrote:
Some-Mist wrote:
Skykid wrote:DOJ BL - it's like the system was given god
great game, but screw those loading times... even with the patch.
Nothing has ever been worth the wait so much. They're not bad once you're playing, and it's a nigh-on perfect port that previously was only accessible by having a PCB, so you're saving a ton of cash. Also has X-Mode which is a ton of fun arrange.
While I agree in a sense... it's like ibara. If thats all youre after, buy the PCB. Same price as the Game + a console + a stick. a DOJBL rom can be had anywhere now a days
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Some-Mist »

Skykid wrote:
Some-Mist wrote:
Skykid wrote:DOJ BL - it's like the system was given god
great game, but screw those loading times... even with the patch.
Nothing has ever been worth the wait so much. They're not bad once you're playing, and it's a nigh-on perfect port that previously was only accessible by having a PCB, so you're saving a ton of cash. Also has X-Mode which is a ton of fun arrange.
true, the menu is more frustrating than anything, but the whole thing was supremely annoying pre-patch.

admittedly I've spent more time with white label thinking it would give me bigger balls for clearing, and I never did achieve the 1-all... let alone get to stage 5. I'm actually considering going back for fun tonight and giving BL a whirl since I haven't booted the port in awhile.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Muchi Muchi Spork »

Try playing it on a harder difficulty for a few days and then crank it back to normal and it should feel a lot more reasonable.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by o.pwuaioc »

I would rank them lower than old school and manic shooters. ;)
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Obscura »

There really aren't many old-school or manic shmups on X360, though, are there?

There's Under Defeat which has the goofy perspective that makes it annoying to play, and there's the worst Raiden game, and I think that's it.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Strikers1945guy »

Obscura wrote:and there's the worst Raiden game, and I think that's it.
Raiden III is on the 360?
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Obscura »

RIII > RIV.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Muchi Muchi Spork »

I would hate to try IV.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Doctor Butler »

360 has Raiden Fighter Aces. Best of the series, I'd say.

As for the topic,

Akai Katana
Daifukkatsu
Deathsmiles
Futari
Muchi Pork
Pink Sweets


It's hard to rank them, since they're so good. This is more based on which I've spent more time with.

Except Akai, I love the shit out of that one.
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Re: How would you rank the Cave XBox shmups?

Post by Some-Mist »

Lovin the AK admiration here. I spent a lot of time on arcade mode (I know... probably the least popular option) when it released. Figured it'd be at the bottom of the lists.

My list is probably
Ketsui
Mushihimesama Futari
MMP
AKS
Mushihimesama Hd
PS
DDPDOJ
Espgaluda 2
DDPSDOJ
DSII
Guwange
DDPDFK
DS

If progear had a port it'd be at the top with Feveron in top 5.
Last edited by Some-Mist on Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:54 am, edited 10 times in total.
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