XRGB-mini Framemeister

[austin532]

@FBX, how are you able to change profiles so quickly on your TV? Whenever I select another profile the screen goes black for about 3-4 seconds. I always assumed this was the frameister's problem but I guess it could be the TV.

[FBX]

@FBX, how are you able to change profiles so quickly on your TV? Whenever I select another profile the screen goes black for about 3-4 seconds. I always assumed this was the frameister's problem but I guess it could be the TV.

It's the magic of editing!

Seriously though, I didn't want people watching the video having to wait the same amount of wasted time. It's also how I'm able to jump from Smart_2x to a Zoom-active profile, when normally you have to turn Zoom on before or after.

[bluenote]

Hi everyone, does anyone know how to get rid of the overscan area of nes games? Is zoom the only option?

[darcagn]

Hi everyone, does anyone know how to get rid of the overscan area of nes games? Is zoom the only option?

The RETRO modes are pretty good for this.

[austin532]

Hi everyone, does anyone know how to get rid of the overscan area of nes games? Is zoom the only option?

The RETRO modes are pretty good for this.

Did you not see FBX's post? Simply use the GEN4X256 profile. It's way more effective than Retro Mode.

[bluenote]

Hi everyone, does anyone know how to get rid of the overscan area of nes games? Is zoom the only option?

The RETRO modes are pretty good for this.

Did you not see FBX's post? Simply use the GEN4X256 profile. It's way more effective than Retro Mode.

I did that, but it only made the image smaller, I can still see the same bluebars on the left and right of super mario bros

[FBX]

Hi everyone, does anyone know how to get rid of the overscan area of nes games? Is zoom the only option?

The RETRO modes are pretty good for this.

Did you not see FBX's post? Simply use the GEN4X256 profile. It's way more effective than Retro Mode.

No, no, no, no. ONLY use GEN4X256 for GENESIS 256 mode games. It is not designed to work on the NES. The borders and positioning of the Genesis are entirely unique in both 320 and 256 modes.

With regard to the NES, some games have 'scrolling' borders where the active graphics are colored in such a ways as to look like a border. This is so the scrolling data cannot be seen as it is loaded into view. There are games that do not do this, like Castlevania III, which you can see graphics being loaded onto the screen during vertically scrolling moments as an example.

[Fudoh]

FBX, just watched your video and I'm amazed at what you achieve in terms of masking without a dedicated function for this. Really nice!

Just to make sure I understand this right: the actual image sizing controls let you control the visible image size, but at the same time they control a fixed mask on all four sides. So what you do is you decrease the image size to what it's supposed to be like without any visible underscan area and then you use the zoom controls to re-increase the "visible picture" to match the exact size of the window left by the decreased "supposed picture size" ? Is that right ?

[bluenote]

Thanks for the clarification Fbx. Is there any way then to hide nes overscan? I assume not

[austin532]

Good to know. I thought the GEN4X256 looked pretty decent with NES games as it cuts off a little off the top and bottom of the screen and all of the side boarders just like a CRT would. I assume there is a proper way of removing the boarders on NES games....or maybe not as each game is different.

[FBX]

FBX, just watched your video and I'm amazed at what you achieve in terms of masking without a dedicated function for this. Really nice!

Just to make sure I understand this right: the actual image sizing controls let you control the visible image size, but at the same time they control a fixed mask on all four sides. So what you do is you decrease the image size to what it's supposed to be like without any visible underscan area and then you use the zoom controls to re-increase the "visible picture" to match the exact size of the window left by the decreased "supposed picture size" ? Is that right ?

Basically how it works is the "Visual_Set" options of H & V position and H & V width are used to set the boundaries of the image (i.e. masking). However when doing this, of course the image gets stretched/squeezed all out of wack. This is where the Zoom functions come in, as they allow you to correctly shape & size the image without affecting the Visual_set boundaries you just made.

I'm going to try using a capture device (Hauppage PVR 2) and see if I can get a really nice & clear capture of more profiles in action. That camcorder I used just didn't like trying to capture graphics off the TV screen.

Thanks for the clarification Fbx. Is there any way then to hide nes overscan? I assume not

I'm sure I could and will look into it when I have time. It depends entirely on the game though. Zelda 1 for example, uses the entire overscan area for active graphics, while some other games do not intend for the user to see them. Which game specifically are you playing that's bothering you if I may ask?

[bluenote]

FBX, just watched your video and I'm amazed at what you achieve in terms of masking without a dedicated function for this. Really nice!

Just to make sure I understand this right: the actual image sizing controls let you control the visible image size, but at the same time they control a fixed mask on all four sides. So what you do is you decrease the image size to what it's supposed to be like without any visible underscan area and then you use the zoom controls to re-increase the "visible picture" to match the exact size of the window left by the decreased "supposed picture size" ? Is that right ?

Basically how it works is the "Visual_Set" options of H & V position and H & V width are used to set the boundaries of the image (i.e. masking). However when doing this, of course the image gets stretched/squeezed all out of wack. This is where the Zoom functions come in, as they allow you to correctly shape & size the image without affecting the Visual_set boundaries you just made.

I'm going to try using a capture device (Hauppage PVR 2) and see if I can get a really nice & clear capture of more profiles in action. That camcorder I used just didn't like trying to capture graphics off the TV screen.

Thanks for the clarification Fbx. Is there any way then to hide nes overscan? I assume not

I'm sure I could and will look into it when I have time. It depends entirely on the game though. Zelda 1 for example, uses the entire overscan area for active graphics, while some other games do not intend for the user to see them. Which game specifically are you playing that's bothering you if I may ask?

The first and third super mario bros

[Fudoh]

I'm going to try using a capture device (Hauppage PVR 2) and see if I can get a really nice & clear capture of more profiles in action. That camcorder I used just didn't like trying to capture graphics off the TV screen.

for a camcorder capture this looked very good. Not sure if a capture card will hold the sync during a profile switch.

[FBX]

I'm going to try using a capture device (Hauppage PVR 2) and see if I can get a really nice & clear capture of more profiles in action. That camcorder I used just didn't like trying to capture graphics off the TV screen.

for a camcorder capture this looked very good. Not sure if a capture card will hold the sync during a profile switch.

Just did a test recording of Doom 64 on my RGB-modded N64. The Hauppauge did a superb job capturing it. I recorded the Intro and one of the demo stage runs with scanlines turned on, and then I turned them off for the 2nd demo run in the same video. Honestly scanlines on looks really good for this particular N64 game. I'll upload the video to file trip if anyone is interested in checking it out.

[opt2not]

Hey FBX, any plan of doing Sega Saturn and Dreamcast profiles?

[lettuce]

I'll upload the video to file trip if anyone is interested in checking it out.

The file trip??, wheres that?

[FBX]

Hey FBX, any plan of doing Sega Saturn and Dreamcast profiles?

Saturn I plan on buying, I already have a Dreamcast, but I felt VGA boxes were a better solution for that console. I'm not sure how they work with modern displays or what kind of converter is needed, but if it turns out the Framemeister is needed afterall, I'll do something up for it.

I'm saving up for a new computer right now though. In 9 weeks, I'll have $2,000 to blow on a new build.

[FBX]

The first and third super mario bros

New profiles update:

All NES profiles have been reformed using the masking technique previously demonstrated on the Genesis profiles. Additionally, 4x and 5x profiles have been made for "Super Mario Bros 3". These profiles are labeled as "NESRGB4L" and "NESRGB5L" respectively. What they do is mask the left-side 8 pixels to cover up the software-driven scroll border that SMB3 uses during gameplay.

So this should wrap up any extraneous NES border annoyances. Enjoy!

[Pasky]

Awesome, thanks for your efforts! Really enjoy using the profiles.

[austin532]

Unfortunately it looks like there is no perfect border setting for NES as each screen position is different. Both Contra games are almost center but suffer from garbage with vertical scrolling, Crystalis is shifted to the top right and has garbage on the sides. Zelda uses a full 240 so using anything other than NESRGBOS will cut off some of the screen. Some Capcom games are shifted to the right.

FBX if you can somehow create a fix around this to where all NES games look good with minimal visible area cropping, I think you will be considered a God on these forums.

[FBX]

FBX if you can somehow create a fix around this to where all NES games look good with minimal visible area cropping, I think you will be considered a God on these forums.

It's impossible of course, but there's always making an entire library of custom profiles for each game!

Seriously though, I thought Contra was spot-on when I ran it (vertical scroll garbage happen within the active graphics, so I'm never going to mask that). Could it be that no two NESRGB boards are alike when it comes to positioning?

[austin532]

FBX if you can somehow create a fix around this to where all NES games look good with minimal visible area cropping, I think you will be considered a God on these forums.

It's impossible of course, but there's always making an entire library of custom profiles for each game!

Seriously though, I thought Contra was spot-on when I ran it (vertical scroll garbage happen within the active graphics, so I'm never going to mask that). Could it be that no two NESRGB boards are alike when it comes to positioning?

Why couldn't you just test several NES games and try to find a spot where they all look good? It won't be perfect but that way you just set it and forget it and not have to worry about creating 700+ profiles for all the games?

Maybe you're right but to me Contra looks like it's shifted to the left by 1 or 2 pixels. Pretty damn close compared to other NES games if you ask me. I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

I doubt the board makes a difference but I'm not going to say it's impossible.

[bluenote]

I don't know what I'm doing wrong but all the NES profiles do nothing to eliminate the solid color bars on my nes games. I've turned on zoom, I made sure overscan is disabled on my tv, nothing.

I managed to eliminate the borders with my own settings though, basically using h post and the scaler options. I think it looks pretty good

[FBX]

I don't know what I'm doing wrong but all the NES profiles do nothing to eliminate the solid color bars on my nes games. I've turned on zoom, I made sure overscan is disabled on my tv, nothing.

Strange. What games did you test? Did you look at SMB 3 using one of the "L" profiles?

Maybe you're right but to me Contra looks like it's shifted to the left by 1 or 2 pixels.

I'm looking at it right now, and it's spot-on. So either the NESRGB board is random, or the fact that I'm using a front-loader might be the difference.

[FBX]

Crystalis is shifted to the top right and has garbage on the sides.

Just checked this out and it's one of those left-side scroll buffer games like SMB 3. You'll want to use either 4L or 5L for that one. Also, it technically isn't "shifted" anywhere. Rather instead, it just doesn't use all of the visible graphics area on the bottom, and the left side is of course artificially bordered as I mentioned before. The game is very poorly coded when it comes to the visual elements. There's garbage all over the place, and it would have been visible on CRTs back when it was new.

[FBX]

Profiles update: N64 added!

Note for the N64 profiles below:

1. The N64 is desperately reliant upon scanlines to reduce the ugly nature of its low-res polygonal video modes. This is one of the few times where even I actually prefer them. So for the "N64RGB4S" profile, you will need to turn scanlines on manually for the intended effect (since profiles do not save scanline activity). My recommended settings for the scanlines is INT_LINE = 80 and INT_SMOOTH = 100. The N64RGB4S profile has GAMMA boosted to compensate for the darkening that occurs when scanlines are turned on. The "N64RGB4X" profile is a sharp reference image for 2D games with traditional bitmapped artwork.


2. The N64's various low res modes are actually letterboxed/pillarboxed to 320x240 from the console directly, so only one profile is needed for low res mode. For hi-res mode (typically only active in some games that make use of the expanded memory pak option), you can use the "PS1RGBIN" profile and make any color changes to suit your tastes.

Now onto the N64 profiles:

Code: Select all

N64RGB4S:  (Nintendo 64 RGB 4x scaled, scanline optimized)

This is for the original Nintendo 64 'charcoal' colored console with the RetroRGB mod for RGB output, and is scaled to 4x the oroginal 320x240 resolution mode. This profile is also optimized for scanlines, which must be turned on manually. Recommended scanline settings are INT_LINE = 80 and INT_SMOOTH = 100. Suggested display area: Full pixel (default overscan settings might disrupt scanline uniformity, though you can check to see if it still looks kosher)


N65RGB4X:  (Nintendo 64 RGB 4x scaled)

This is for the original Nintendo 64 'charcoal' colored console with the RetroRGB mod for RGB output, and is scaled to 4x the original 320x240 resolution mode. Suggested display area: -1

Lastly, I did a direct capture to demonstrate the differences between RGB, S-Video, and also my smoothing scanline profile in full effect. Honestly I couldn't tell the difference at all in S-Video quality between the green and charcoal N64 models. But RGB on the other hand, definitely reveals more texture detail and shading. The mod is worth it for that alone, and I imagine the N64RGB circuit board that you can use to mode the later N64 revisions likely reveals even more detail.

Captures below:

[Ed Oscuro]

Honestly I couldn't tell the difference at all in S-Video quality between the green and charcoal N64 models. But RGB on the other hand, definitely reveals more texture detail and shading.

The pic backs up your point on S-Video, but is there a RGB capture from the green console? Also, is there some other name for this green console? Motherboard revision, or maybe a sticker difference?

[jamisonia]

Couple of questions

1. FBX could your gamma settings be used on other profiles if I wanted to use scanlines on them?
2. More generally (not necessarily to FBX) should I be using Full Range or Limited color options on my TV? The mini also has settings out output full range over limited right? I've always kept on limited. not sure if I should use full range for anything.

[FBX]

Honestly I couldn't tell the difference at all in S-Video quality between the green and charcoal N64 models. But RGB on the other hand, definitely reveals more texture detail and shading.

The pic backs up your point on S-Video, but is there a RGB capture from the green console? Also, is there some other name for this green console? Motherboard revision, or maybe a sticker difference?

The green console (from the DK64 package) would require the more complicated RGB mod that I don't currently have access to.

1. FBX could your gamma settings be used on other profiles if I wanted to use scanlines on them?

All you'd need to do is up the Gamma until it looks bright enough. I wouldn't recommend adjusting the brightness as that brings the black border up into dark shades of grey.

[rtw]

I am interfacing a medium-res arcade PCB to the FrameMeister i.e. video sync is already CSYNC.

Does anyone know if someone sells a DB15 male to FM Mini-Din ?