XRGB-mini Framemeister

[RGB32E]

Can anyone explain why there is a significant color difference between HDMI and DVI output modes? DVI seems more accurate HDMI green's are very bright compared to the DVI output mode.

This was discussed a number of pages back. On my TV there isn't a significant color difference between HDMI and DVI output modes, so it appears the difference is how your particular display handles each mode. Which display(s) are you using that you notice this?

[Xan]

Could it be this already established issue here, unless it has been fixed in the meantime?

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... start=7320

[robodude00]

How well does an RGB modded N64 clean up when hooked up correctly to an XRGB mini?

[Xan]

What do you mean by clean up? The comparisons are out there on the web. On the N64 RGB seems to pretty much look like S-Video with a proper cable, just with slightly better (brighter?) colors.

[FBX]

What do you mean by clean up? The comparisons are out there on the web. On the N64 RGB seems to pretty much look like S-Video with a proper cable, just with slightly better (brighter?) colors.

On mine, RGB is significantly sharper than S-Video, and has well defined pixels. The difference is quite clear, though I am comparing 2 different N64 revisions. The RGB is coming from an original charcoal model, while my unmodded N64 is one of those green DK64 models.

[austin532]

I will try with the 100 and 80 settings FBX suggested.

80 - 100 actually (in order on the scanline menus). It looks hot to me when I try it on the 240p consoles, and I'm not really a fan of scanlines.

Honestly I think 80 - 100 looks a little on the light side as they appear grayish. Aren't scanlines supposed to be black? That's what they look like to me.

I know there are no perfect scanlines settings as each display size is different but 80 - 100 is a good starting point then work your way down. To me 70 - 95, 60 - 90, and 60 - 85 all look pretty good at 1080p with FBX's profiles and look more like a CRT but again your mileage may vary.

[Xan]

What do you mean by clean up? The comparisons are out there on the web. On the N64 RGB seems to pretty much look like S-Video with a proper cable, just with slightly better (brighter?) colors.

On mine, RGB is significantly sharper than S-Video, and has well defined pixels. The difference is quite clear, though I am comparing 2 different N64 revisions. The RGB is coming from an original charcoal model, while my unmodded N64 is one of those green DK64 models.

Are you sure that you are using a proper S-Video cable with Y/C connected? Different revisions might be relevant too. Anyway I don't have an RGB N64 to really say for sure, but in videos like this one I don't see any advantage in terms of sharpness.

[FBX]

Are you sure that you are using a proper S-Video cable with Y/C connected? Different revisions might be relevant too. Anyway I don't have an RGB N64 to really say for sure, but in videos like this one I don't see any advantage in terms of sharpness.

I'm using the official original S-Video cables, and they are correctly wired (checked the pins myself). I'll do a same-console check to see if the difference is still blatant.

[Chocograph]

How well does an RGB modded N64 clean up when hooked up correctly to an XRGB mini?

Ugly. The N64 looks terrible no matter how much you try to tweak it and it's ugly on CRT's.

[FBX]

How well does an RGB modded N64 clean up when hooked up correctly to an XRGB mini?

Ugly. The N64 looks terrible no matter how much you try to tweak it and it's ugly on CRT's.

Depends on the game though. I was testing out Doom 64 and RE2 and they both actually look better in clean RGB, but I can imagine many are put off by the chunky look of Super Mario 64 for example.

[robodude00]

How well does an RGB modded N64 clean up when hooked up correctly to an XRGB mini?

Ugly. The N64 looks terrible no matter how much you try to tweak it and it's ugly on CRT's.

Depends on the game though. I was testing out Doom 64 and RE2 and they both actually look better in clean RGB, but I can imagine many are put off by the chunky look of Super Mario 64 for example.

Ahhh that is a shame. I have the XRGB Mini and want to convert my N64 to RGB Scart so was hoping for a nice difference(ie PS2 games played via HDMI on PS3 or Dreamcast games via VGA etc). It seems the RGB mod for N64 obtains minimal improvement....

[lettuce]

FBX, regarding you Xbox profile.

I have just gotten the D-Terminal Component cable for the xrgb and am using your XBXCOMPW profile, i have updated the xrgb FW to the latest version so all my settings are default. The only settings i have change are setting HDMI to 1080p and turning on 'Zoom'.

But have noticed that the game display area doesnt fill the entire screen (2 inch black boarders either side of screen)

[blizzz]

Could it be this already established issue here, unless it has been fixed in the meantime?
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... start=7320

Sadly this hasn't been fixed and I'm not sure if it ever will be. It's by far my biggest issue with the Framemeister. On my TV and capture card I have to set it to YCbCr output every time and after every resolution change to get good colors. RGB output looks just wrong. On my PC monitor (DELL U2711) it's the other way around. RGB output looks correct but YCbCr output is wrong.

I wish they would just add an option to force YCbCr.

[FBX]

FBX, regarding you Xbox profile.

I have just gotten the D-Terminal Component cable for the xrgb and am using your XBXCOMPW profile, i have updated the xrgb FW to the latest version so all my settings are default. The only settings i have change are setting HDMI to 1080p and turning on 'Zoom'.

But have noticed that the game display area doesnt fill the entire screen (2 inch black boarders either side of screen)

That's because it's set to 16:9 of the original scaled image. Setting it to fill the screen horizontally would not be 16:9 accurate. If you want it to fill the screen in all directions, you're going to lose integer-scaling integrity. Nevertheless, you can go into the ZOOM settings and adjust them until your screen is filled.


At any rate on the N64 front: I was informed that MAME reports the original resolution of the N64 ROM when loaded, so I'll use that as a guide for testing the library. This will take a few weeks like the Genesis testing did.

[nam9]

Hi... So 281 pages in I am officially late to this party...
Just picked up a Framemeister courteously of Yakumo (cheers!) and have a couple questions that I am sure are buried somewhere here.
Everything looks great besides:

PS2 (Pal 50Hz RGB Scart): Unstable image blanks out every couple of seconds, shifts around etc...
JVC X'EYE (NTSC 60Hz RGB Scart): Picture is stable at the top; flashing at the bottom with a steady transition.

Any thoughts?
On the X'EYE is this a sync issue? I first need to check the cable to see if it is wired for CSync or Composite video.
The PS2??? I have HDMI output set at 720p50, Sync_Mode set to Auto..., cables are official PS2.

Thanks in advance!

Neil

[Pasky]

Is there a max amount of profiles the XRGB will list on the menu? I downloaded FBX's August 2015 profiles and the list stops at NESRGB4x.

EDIT: Yes, found the line in your instructions:

"The Framemeister ONLY allows for 20 profiles to be shown on the menu screen. You will need to pick your 20 most important profiles and put ONLY those in the proper folder on the microSD card."

[Fudoh]

Sadly this hasn't been fixed and I'm not sure if it ever will be. It's by far my biggest issue with the Framemeister. On my TV and capture card I have to set it to YCbCr output every time and after every resolution change to get good colors. RGB output looks just wrong. On my PC monitor (DELL U2711) it's the other way around. RGB output looks correct but YCbCr output is wrong. I wish they would just add an option to force YCbCr.

not the ideal solution, but maybe an EDID minder would help you to force the Mini into the same color output after each HDMI-re-negotiation.

[blizzz]

I don't think that this can be solved with EDID. Even with an EDID that has entries for RGB and YCbCr the Mini will switch to RGB. An EDID without RGB is as far as I know not possible, since all HDMI devices are required to work with RGB. The weird thing is that I never noticed color problems on my TV when I output from my PC in RGB.

The only solution I see is to get a TV that handles it correctly and a capture card that can record in RGB 4:4:4 without converting to YUY2. My hope is that marqs' scaler will fix my problems.

[Pasky]

Could it be this already established issue here, unless it has been fixed in the meantime?
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... start=7320

Sadly this hasn't been fixed and I'm not sure if it ever will be. It's by far my biggest issue with the Framemeister. On my TV and capture card I have to set it to YCbCr output every time and after every resolution change to get good colors. RGB output looks just wrong. On my PC monitor (DELL U2711) it's the other way around. RGB output looks correct but YCbCr output is wrong.

I wish they would just add an option to force YCbCr.

Is it possible to set this with an X-Capture 1? I don't see an option anywhere, thanks.

[blizzz]

If you re-negotiate the HDMI connection it should switch to YCbCr, at least on the SC-500N1 it works. In Amarec this can be done by clicking on the graph / preset button or just restarting the program. It won't work though if you're using a splitter, since the splitter keeps the connection alive.

[TheShadowRunner]

I wish they would just add an option to force YCbCr.

Indeed I don't get why they didn't implement AUTO/YCbCr/RGB. I don't have an issue with RGB but clearly YCbCr should be selectable without the need to trigger the failsafe system.

[andykara2003]

Chocograph - it is possible to make the N64 look good on a CRT. It needs a really good, low use high end 50/60hz shadow mask consumer CRT TV - i.e. NOT a professional monitor or a consumer Sony CRT (the scanlines are too prominent).

Try Mario 64 running on a THS7314 RGB modded N64 on a low-use Loewe E3001 chassis (no larger than 25") and you will be amazed. It's a shame the console gets so much flak for it's output because if you have the right display it can look fantastic. And in this particular case, RGB is a significant improvement over the official s-video cable.

[kel]

Hi... So 281 pages in I am officially late to this party...
Just picked up a Framemeister courteously of Yakumo (cheers!) and have a couple questions that I am sure are buried somewhere here.
Everything looks great besides:

PS2 (Pal 50Hz RGB Scart): Unstable image blanks out every couple of seconds, shifts around etc...
JVC X'EYE (NTSC 60Hz RGB Scart): Picture is stable at the top; flashing at the bottom with a steady transition.

Any thoughts?
On the X'EYE is this a sync issue? I first need to check the cable to see if it is wired for CSync or Composite video.
The PS2??? I have HDMI output set at 720p50, Sync_Mode set to Auto..., cables are official PS2.

Thanks in advance!

Neil

The official PS2 Scart is known to have sync dropout issues. I don't know why this is because the official PS1 Scart works fine and I can't see any practical difference between the two although it was a while ago when I compared them, maybe I missed something.

[TheShadowRunner]

The official PS2 Scart is known to have sync dropout issues. I don't know why this is because the official PS1 Scart works fine and I can't see any practical difference between the two although it was a while ago when I compared them, maybe I missed something.

Oh yeah, here's the fix for the official SCPH-10142 PS2 RGB cable for the Mini:
just desolder the purple wire (= power for the switching circuit)

[FBX]

I tried to make a video demonstrating the latest Genesis profiles, but the camcorder couldn't pick up the scanlines. Otherwise it went okay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtVEEw79ELM

[nam9]

Oh yeah, here's the fix for the official SCPH-10142 PS2 RGB cable for the Mini:
just desolder the purple wire (= power for the switching circuit)

Thanks! I'll give that a shot. I actually have the PS1 scart too, so I'll compare.

Just tested my X'Eye scart - looks like it was wired for composite video. I'll rewire for CSync and see if that helps...

[nam9]

Can confirm:
SCPH-1052 PS1 RGB cable works as is;
SCPH-10142 PS2 RGB cable works when purple wire is disconnected...

I don't see any major differences in wiring ?

Thanks again!

[austin532]

I tried to make a video demonstrating the latest Genesis profiles, but the camcorder couldn't pick up the scanlines. Otherwise it went okay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtVEEw79ELM

Very nice on eliminating the color boarders. While not a deal breaker to me , it does look better without the boarders. I assume this trick works with NES as well? The only problem I can see happening is each company had a different screen position. Capcom games for example have the image shifted way to the right. So much that it's even noticeable on CRT's.

[Pasky]

Thanks for your video and all the work you put into your profiles FBX.

[FBX]

I tried to make a video demonstrating the latest Genesis profiles, but the camcorder couldn't pick up the scanlines. Otherwise it went okay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtVEEw79ELM

Very nice on eliminating the color boarders. While not a deal breaker to me , it does look better without the boarders. I assume this trick works with NES as well? The only problem I can see happening is each company had a different screen position. Capcom games for example have the image shifted way to the right. So much that it's even noticeable on CRT's.

The trick should work with most any console, though it's very difficult to juggle in integer-perfect scaling. I recently tried it with the Sega Master System mode profiles and could only pull it off on the 4x version. The 5x version simply wouldn't allow integer-perfect scaling with masking the top and bottom edge at the same time. It was always a couple pixels off no matter what combination I tried. I suspect though this was because of the rather bizarre vertical resolution of the Master System of 192. While I had no problems masking 224 consoles, that 192 res was exceptionally stubborn.