Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

[otoed1]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys I think I'll go dl Cho Ren Sha 68k now

[pokemon123]

how hard is tiger heli supposed to be? thought this was going to be fairly easy but man it's really hard. Feels like truxton 2 is easier at times >_>

[SMC]

how hard is tiger heli supposed to be? thought this was going to be fairly easy but man it's really hard. Feels like truxton 2 is easier at times >_>

I was just playing it, it's pretty brutal with the slow movement speed. It feels like there's a puzzle element to the game because you're so slow you can't just dodge stuff on the fly.

[BIL]

Make sure the ship speed is set to "fast," it's actually the default despite what some MAME revisions suggest.

[pokemon123]

nope playing on fast. Think i'll move on to kyuuyoku tiger since getting pointblanked every 5 seconds because of enemies spawning right next to you isn't much fun.

[Stevens]

Having never played it what are people's thoughts on DDP Resurrection?

[DMC]

Psikyo loop question!

I'm interested in getting a proper STG pilot degree by doing a Psikyo 2-ALL. Which one would you say is the easiest? I thought Sengoku Blade might be the one because there are only 7 instead of 8 stages and many enemies can be "pointblanked" with the melee attack before enemies spit out bullets, but I'm having second thoughts after playing it a bit more. I made it to 2-7 on Strikers part 2 many years ago on the Saturn so I think it might be worthwhile to take it up again. But is Strikers 1999 perhaps easier (I find it slightly more enjoyable so would prefer it, but most Psikyo games are very good imo, so the quality is less relevant). How's ZG2 in this regard?

[Erppo]

S99 should be among the easier ones. Sengoku Ace is on a class of its own though by being extremely easy. The only ones I've actually cleared are that and S45 though so I can't really comment on the others. Sengoku Blade is weird with its heavy rank and unusually nasty suicide bullets and I played around Gunbird enough to know that it's probably easier than S45 except for the train stage which is ridiculous. It's significantly easier on the 1/4 chance you don't get that stage.

[pegboy]

Psikyo loop question!

I'm interested in getting a proper STG pilot degree by doing a Psikyo 2-ALL. Which one would you say is the easiest? I thought Sengoku Blade might be the one because there are only 7 instead of 8 stages and many enemies can be "pointblanked" with the melee attack before enemies spit out bullets, but I'm having second thoughts after playing it a bit more. I made it to 2-7 on Strikers part 2 many years ago on the Saturn so I think it might be worthwhile to take it up again. But is Strikers 1999 perhaps easier (I find it slightly more enjoyable so would prefer it, but most Psikyo games are very good imo, so the quality is less relevant). How's ZG2 in this regard?

I've never done any of them personally but from my "research" (cough Japanese wiki) the easiest one listed is Sengoku Ace (by far), followed by Strikers 1945 Plus (Neo Geo). Sengoku Blade is actually listed as the hardest. Also, if you are playing Strikers 1945 II on Saturn/PS1, the "original 1" mode is not the same as the arcade difficulty, so not sure if people "count" that mode.

Here's the full list by difficulty (numbers are what the wiki lists as the 2-ALL difficulty, higher=harder):
42 - Sengoku Blade
40 - Strikers 1945
39 - Strikers 1945 II, GunBird II
38 - GunBird
37 - Dragon Blaze, Zero Gunner 2
36 - Strikers 1999
35 - Strikers 1945 Plus
24 - Sengoku Ace


For me personally I'm currently trying (and mostly failing so far) to 2-ALL Strikers 1945 II for the PS1 (on arcade/tate mode). I'm nowhere close to doing it but I'm really going to try and make it happen.

[DMC]

Thanks, Erppo and pegboy. Very interesting info.
The list makes a lot of sense although I would have guessed Dragon Blaze to be considered harder.
Good luck with your 2-ALL too, pegboy!

[Perikles]

I can't really comment on the accuracy of those Psikyo 2-ALLs but I seriously doubt some of the numeric values on the site (I'm assuming it's this one?). Darius II, for example, is listed with a respectable value of 24, whereas the incredibly brutal Dragon Saber only gets half that amount which is ludicrous. Gradius II has only one more point than the first game even though it's considerably harder (both 1-ALLs). Dragon Spirit gets 16 points, yet is a lot tougher than Darius II and quite a bit easier than Dragon Saber. It's also placed together with an OutZone 1-ALL which is considered to be one of the easiest Toaplan titles. An 1-ALL of Detana!! TwinBee is only set at 17 points despite the fact that it gets teeth-gnashingly difficult. I'm not questioning the general tendency of the list, some of the placements seem to be gravely off, however.

[pegboy]

I can't really comment on the accuracy of those Psikyo 2-ALLs but I seriously doubt some of the numeric values on the site (I'm assuming it's this one?). Darius II, for example, is listed with a respectable value of 24, whereas the incredibly brutal Dragon Saber only gets half that amount which is ludicrous. Gradius II has only one more point than the first game even though it's considerably harder (both 1-ALLs). Dragon Spirit gets 16 points, yet is a lot tougher than Darius II and quite a bit easier than Dragon Saber. It's also placed together with an OutZone 1-ALL which is considered to be one of the easiest Toaplan titles. An 1-ALL of Detana!! TwinBee is only set at 17 points despite the fact that it gets teeth-gnashingly difficult. I'm not questioning the general tendency of the list, some of the placements seem to be gravely off, however.

Yeah, that's the site. I run it through Google translator so it's actually (somewhat) readable. Some of the ratings differ wildly depending on if you are using autofire or not (I think I'm reading it correctly). For instance, that site gives a -10 to Darius II if you are using autofire, so it's actually a 14 rating instead of 24 (massive difference really). So I wonder if some of those ratings seem off because of that? I haven't played any of those games you listed except Gradius I & II, and I agree with you that II should be a bit higher than that.

[Special World]

In the original arcade release, it was very easy to reach the score cap, apparently. My problem with it is that it's too fiddly and the bosses are boring as hell. Otherwise, I dunno. It's not my favorite but it's not Cave's worst.

[Squire Grooktook]

and the bosses are boring as hell.

From what I played, the stages were just as boring as the bosses lol.

I suppose that changes with score play. Still not for me though.

[trap15]

In the original arcade release, it was very easy to reach the score cap, apparently.

Incorrect.

It's a good game, with great visuals and a rockin soundtrack, but the scoring sysmte is a bit silly and odd, which is why people joke about it.

[Special World]

That's right, bullet tennis. I actually really like bullet tennis.

[ProjectAKo]

I can't really comment on the accuracy of those Psikyo 2-ALLs but I seriously doubt some of the numeric values on the site (I'm assuming it's this one?). Darius II, for example, is listed with a respectable value of 24, whereas the incredibly brutal Dragon Saber only gets half that amount which is ludicrous. Gradius II has only one more point than the first game even though it's considerably harder (both 1-ALLs). Dragon Spirit gets 16 points, yet is a lot tougher than Darius II and quite a bit easier than Dragon Saber. It's also placed together with an OutZone 1-ALL which is considered to be one of the easiest Toaplan titles. An 1-ALL of Detana!! TwinBee is only set at 17 points despite the fact that it gets teeth-gnashingly difficult. I'm not questioning the general tendency of the list, some of the placements seem to be gravely off, however.

Yeah, that's the site. I run it through Google translator so it's actually (somewhat) readable. Some of the ratings differ wildly depending on if you are using autofire or not (I think I'm reading it correctly). For instance, that site gives a -10 to Darius II if you are using autofire, so it's actually a 14 rating instead of 24 (massive difference really). So I wonder if some of those ratings seem off because of that? I haven't played any of those games you listed except Gradius I & II, and I agree with you that II should be a bit higher than that.

Ｏｎｅ　ｔｈｉｎｇ　ｙｏｕ　ｃａｎ　ｌｏｏｋ　ｏｕｔ　ｆｏｒ　ｉｔ　連つき which is an abbreviation for something like 連打装置付き which basically means using autofire. I also use that site, but yeah it's not always very accurate. I question a of the random lower rankings but I think the higher ups are rather accurate.

[jepjepjep]

This isn't really a question, but I thought it was an interesting observation of the genre from the viewpoint of a 5 year old.

Last night I decided I'd try and get my son into playing a shmup coop with me. He's just turned 5 and started kindergarten. He loves videogames, but he never gravitates towards the arcade cab. He'd rather play Mario 3D World or Lego City and Lego Batman games. Well last night I loaded up Futari Novice mode and invited him to play with me. I have a really nice X360 setup on a Sega candy cab. We start playing Novice Original and he's having a good time. He wants to make sure that he picks the boy character, so I select Palm for him and I take Reco. He's flailing about, wandering all over the screen. The Novice mode is just about perfect difficulty for him. He keeps asking "How do I get more bombs?" and I tell him "you only get 3". We play through two stages together before he gets offered a dessert, so he leaves to eat a snowcone but he comes back to watch me play more. As he's watching me play, he keeps commenting on how "it's really dumb that you only get 3 bombs", lol. Overall, he likes the "dinosaur game":).

Next, I ask him if he wants to see a "spaceship game" so I put in SDOJ. At the character select he says "You should pick up a boy" because all you see is the ship and the girl/dress select. I explain that the pilot really is a boy and the girl is just the co-pilot. I play for a couple stages and he's mildly entertained. He thinks the hyper laser is awesome and asks "how do you get more hyper?" so I explain that you get more hyper laser by getting more points. Then I ask him which game he likes more, the dinosaur game or the spaceship game? "The dinosaur game". I show him some Daifukkatsu and he mentions how he thinks he's seen me play this before. He still likes the "dinosaur" game better.

But he keeps going back to bombs. Why do we only get three? Haha. I tell him that "I have a game that has lots of bombs, you can keep picking up more bombs. If you put on your pajamas quickly I'll show you it tonight." So I do what any good father would do and put in Battle Garegga. The rest of this story is just about the awesomeness of Garegga. I start a credit and pick Miyamoto (C). He comes over and marvels at how awesome a flying bat man character is and asks "how do I play". "Just press start" and he picks Miyamoto but the yellow version. That's incredibly exciting for a 5-year old. We proceed to bomb the shit out of the first stage. I show him how to pick up more bomb fragments. Into stage 2, he keeps dying since Battle Garegga ain't no novice game, but he's having a blast. He picks Bohrnam on accident and the skull face bomb is a real hit, "the skeleton is going to scare the bad guys". We're having so much fun that my daughter (8) comes over to watch. She doesn't care much for video games so this is a pretty rare occurance. I show her the Genie bomb with Chitta and she loves it. She keeps asking for me to bomb more. We keep playing. My son has died about 100 times but he keeps coming back for more. We reach cloud stage and Nose Lavagghin II. I have to explain that this is "just the midboss". We reach two more midbosses including the huge ship. My daughter is still watching this whole time. Finally we reach Black Heart. My son laughs when he sees Black Heart, "That's the boss, that small ship?" "It's so little," says my daughter. I realize this is an opportune time for the life lesson where I explain to them that you can't judge how tough something is by the size of them. We stopped at Black Heart since it was past bedtime, and I couldn't bring myself to impose the horrors of Garegga Stage 6 to my kid, he was already dying every three seconds, but it was a fun experience.

TLDR Summary Through the Eyes of a Five-Year-Old:
1. Modern CAVE has too many girls. There should be boys to select ("boys"=men actually)
2. The "dinosaur" game is better than both "spaceship" games. I.e., Futari is better than SDOJ & DFK.
3. Bombs are good.
4. Garegga is awesome. It has a shit-ton of atmosphere and fun factor. Even with the constant slaughter of ships and brutal difficulty it was way more entertaining.

[BIL]

Great read. Takes me back to my first encounter with Life Force (NES) at around your son's age.

[Shepardus]

Your son has better taste than most of my friends. Shooting game never die!

[Bananamatic]

1. Modern CAVE has too many girls. There should be boys to select ("boys"=men actually)

thats why he should play ultra, palm is the best by far in that mode

[Blinge]

So I do what any good father would do and put in Battle Garegga.

sigged.

Actually I was always upset by the fact my parents wouldn't show any interest in games after I hit age 8. I still think it's a damn shame now. I did buy MotoGP 2008 so me and the old man could take turns at that, he's into bike racing. But it's pretty boring after a while.

Haha, I remember him telling me to stop playing Mickey Mouse's Castle of Illusion on easy mode..

[jepjepjep]

Haha, I remember him telling me to stop playing Mickey Mouse's Castle of Illusion on easy mode..

Haha, tough love.

[DMC]

The father-son anecdotes deserve a thread imo. I'll start one.
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54945

[mdsfx]

Mame question:

Is Service Mode not accessible in some of the later Cave games? Can't get to it in MMP or Mushi Futari...

Anyone?

[Mr Halibut]

You could try waiting until the startup/test stuff has finished and the game is up and running, then hold the test switch for about 5 seconds. I couldn't easily bring up the test menu with Esp2 and Futari BL until I did it this way.

edit: doh, just realized you're talking about MAME. No idea, doesn't seem to work with F2, sorry

[Shepardus]

Mame question:

Is Service Mode not accessible in some of the later Cave games? Can't get to it in MMP or Mushi Futari...

Anyone?

In MAME, press 0 rather than F2. In Demul, press F4. For MMP, Pink Sweets, and Ibara, though, pressing F2 also worked for me.

[mdsfx]

Mame question:

Is Service Mode not accessible in some of the later Cave games? Can't get to it in MMP or Mushi Futari...

Anyone?

In MAME, press 0 rather than F2. In Demul, press F4. For MMP, Pink Sweets, and Ibara, though, pressing F2 also worked for me.

Will try this when I get home. Thanks!!

Edit: Yessss! Holding "0" did it!

[juonryu2nd]

I've been wondering today... are there any other shmups than the Alltynex series which take place in Australia?

[BulletMagnet]

Only Namco's unreleased Bosconian revision Vegemite.