XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Konsolkongen]

The only thing you'll still see is if you are using an SNES Mini, there's a very obscure "ghosting" abnormality that is almost impossible to notice (even for an obsessed lunatic like me) and that is if in the first stage of Super Mario World, if you go near one of the mountains (they are in the background) you can kinda see a ghost/silhouette of Mario in the mountains. It's almost completely impossible to notice under any normal conditions though. Anyway my point is that it's an issue with the all-in-one chip design and the amp won't fix it.

Nothing looks better than a 1CHIP with the Texas Instruments amp mod, though. It's perfection!

Yeah that happens on regular 1CHIP models too, with or without bypass mod. I hate this ghosting

Nothing looks better than a 1CHIP with the Texas Instruments amp mod, though. It's perfection!

what's the downside to just keeping the original encoder and applying the known fix for the vertical bar problem ?

I haven't done a direct comparison. But as far as my own SNES is concerned, all noise and vertical bar problems were fixed with just adding capacitors to the encoder and voltage regulator. Perhas this differs from system to system? Unless you have a prebuilt board for the THS-amp, this might be worth a go first. It's also cheap and fast

[Chocograph]

I'm only talking about dark blue and green though and it's VERY faint. It doesn't bother me but it's there so I think I'll order the amp and try to see for myself. Resistors required? The image supposedly gets very bright but you can adjust that easily on the TV I would think.

https://squareup.com/market/retrorgb/re ... for-snes-n this is it right? Only thing required?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300Pcs-1-4W-1 ... 58c9484435 and these

[Hamburglar]

Nothing looks better than a 1CHIP with the Texas Instruments amp mod, though. It's perfection!

what's the downside to just keeping the original encoder and applying the known fix for the vertical bar problem ?

Nothing that I am aware of. Just at the time that I figured out the vertical bar fix, there were no actual instructions on the capacitor fix, so that's why I went the amp route

The capacitor fix I would imagine it 1,000x easier than the encoder method. If anyone has a good guide for it, definitely post it

[Smashbro29]

Hey FBX there's a brand new thing coming out and I was thinking this is something you definitely might wanna make profiles for.

http://www.gc-forever.com/forums/viewto ... =37&t=2782

[Chocograph]

Nothing looks better than a 1CHIP with the Texas Instruments amp mod, though. It's perfection!

what's the downside to just keeping the original encoder and applying the known fix for the vertical bar problem ?

Nothing that I am aware of. Just at the time that I figured out the vertical bar fix, there were no actual instructions on the capacitor fix, so that's why I went the amp route

The capacitor fix I would imagine it 1,000x easier than the encoder method. If anyone has a good guide for it, definitely post it

Did you install the resistors too or do you find the image is fine without them? Too bright?

[jamisonia]

Does the XRGB have a contrast setting? I'm trying to use 240p test suite to fine tune the picture options of firebrand's profiles. It almost seems like maybe black level acts as brightness and brightness acts as contrast?

[Fudoh]

that's right. Technically "brightness" on the Mini is WHITE LEVEL control (often called contrast on consumer TVs).

[12345]

Not exactly...

Meaning of settings:
-Brightness: Mix of Black- and Whitelevel, but affects mostly Blacklevel, influence(d) on/by Gamma, hardly influenced by A/D
-Black: ONLY increases black level
-Gamma: rises/lowers Gamma curve, after changing check the Brightness setting again
-Saturation: changes color luminance and saturation, values for individual colors don't change at the same scale, so be careful when using this setting
-Hue: I played with this setting a lot but it always made results worse, so stay away from it unless you know what you are doing
-A/D: Adjustment of overall Brightness (this time not Blacklevel) and Gamma-finetuning for the 50+ IRE values

Quoted from page 261.

[lettuce]

FBX, i wonder if you can assist. Im trying your XBOX profile, XBXCOMPW.BIN (Component 480p scaled to 2x and 16:9 aspect ratio) now i dont have a component cable atm just a scart lead connecred up to the xrgb. I have just updated the xrgb to fw 2.00a so everythings back to stock, the only settings i have altered are....

1080p
Zoom enabled
Picture mode: Natural

i have then selected DATA>Load>XBXCOMPW.BIN

but the display isnt widescreen and there are borders along the top and bottom of the screen also.

Is there any chance you can go a profile for scart leads at 1080p??

[CkRtech]

Is there any chance you can go a profile for scart leads at 1080p??

I don't live in SCART-land, but isn't it only meant for standard definition signals?

[lettuce]

Is there any chance you can go a profile for scart leads at 1080p??

I don't live in SCART-land, but isn't it only meant for standard definition signals?

Yeah it is, but i mean upscaled to 1080p, the same as for snes and megadrive profiles.

Did a component adapter cable even come with the xrgb in the box?

[CkRtech]

Yeah it is, but i mean upscaled to 1080p, the same as for snes and megadrive profiles.

Well, I was wondering about the output from your Xbox. For instance - you can't send 480p via SCART, correct?

Did a component adapter cable even come with the xrgb in the box?

No. You had to buy the component/dterminal cable separately.

[Kilokahn]

Did a component adapter cable even come with the xrgb in the box?

No. You had to buy the component/dterminal cable separately.

Can you point me to a cable that I can use for the back of my Framemeister to convert D-Terminal to Component? I saw a few but was not sure which ones worked.

[muggsy]

Did a component adapter cable even come with the xrgb in the box?

No. You had to buy the component/dterminal cable separately.

Can you point me to a cable that I can use for the back of my Framemeister to convert D-Terminal to Component? I saw a few but was not sure which ones worked.

You can get it from Solaris
http://solarisjapan.com/collections/mic ... ble-female

[pyrotek85]

Did a component adapter cable even come with the xrgb in the box?

No. You had to buy the component/dterminal cable separately.

Can you point me to a cable that I can use for the back of my Framemeister to convert D-Terminal to Component? I saw a few but was not sure which ones worked.

This is the one I got along with the Framemeister when I ordered from Solaris Japan.

http://solarisjapan.com/collections/mic ... ble-female

Since I'm in the US and don't have anything that uses D-Terminal, I just leave it plugged in all the time. Oh and don't be stupid like me and plug the audio in the front, gotta use the RCA plugs that are right next to the D-Terminal lol.

[FBX]

FBX, i wonder if you can assist. Im trying your XBOX profile, XBXCOMPW.BIN (Component 480p scaled to 2x and 16:9 aspect ratio) now i dont have a component cable atm just a scart lead connecred up to the xrgb. I have just updated the xrgb to fw 2.00a so everythings back to stock, the only settings i have altered are....

1080p
Zoom enabled
Picture mode: Natural

i have then selected DATA>Load>XBXCOMPW.BIN

but the display isnt widescreen and there are borders along the top and bottom of the screen also.

Is there any chance you can go a profile for scart leads at 1080p??

Well first thing is you need to use "PICTURE" since 480p doesn't need deinterlacing. Next, check and make sure aspect ratio is set to 16:9. Also there will be some black bordering on the top and bottom since that is a 2x scale profile (960 is shorter than 1080). Lastly, how is your scart lead being connected to the XRGB-mini? If through the RGB port, I don't believe you can get 480p mode working through that port, so what's likely happening is you're seeing 480i. In that case, you need to load the 480i profile (and use NATURAL in that case).

[CkRtech]

If through the RGB port, I don't believe you can get 480p mode working through that port, so what's likely happening is you're seeing 480i. In that case, you need to load the 480i profile (and use NATURAL in that case).

You can run 480p to the RGB port on the framemeister. I don't know if the xbox will let you output 31khz RGB on a typical SCART cable, though.

[RGB32E]

You can run 480p to the RGB port on the framemeister. I don't know if the xbox will let you output 31khz RGB on a typical SCART cable, though.

Nope! Not under normal circumstances:

http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:xboxav

A number of Xbox revisions have trouble outputting 480p via component as well, especially with the Sega titles!

[CkRtech]

Nope! Not under normal circumstances:

There you go.

Again, lettuce, I would basically treat SCART as standard def output only.

[lettuce]

Ah, thanks for the input guys, i have a softmod xbox and thought there was a way to get 480p out of the scart rgb lead....but doesnt appear to be the case. Ill give FBX's interlaced widescreen profile a go and see how thats looks...otherwise i guess ill be getting a component break out cable for the xrgb, is there anywhere in the UK that supplies these??

EDIT: FBX, does it matter that your XBXCOMIW profile is supposed to be for component cable??....as ill be using a scart cable?. Will i just have to change the input from component to RGB?

[FBX]

Ah, thanks for the input guys, i have a softmod xbox and thought there was a way to get 480p out of the scart rgb lead....but doesnt appear to be the case. Ill give FBX's interlaced widescreen profile a go and see how thats looks...otherwise i guess ill be getting a component break out cable for the xrgb, is there anywhere in the UK that supplies these??

EDIT: FBX, does it matter that your XBXCOMIW profile is supposed to be for component cable??....as ill be using a scart cable?. Will i just have to change the input from component to RGB?

I've never actually tried to use a profile on a different input than what I programmed it for, so I honestly don't know 100% if it will work. Logically, as long as the reported resolution in the full status is the same, the profile 'should' work (and yes, you'll need to load it into the RGB input to try this).

I will say though that you should look into nabbing some component cables. I was very impressed with the xbox's 480p mode. It was significantly better looking that the PS2 480p mode. Crystal clear in fact, and WAY better than 480i even with the Framemeister's horizontal softening bug. My own xbox is one of those hacked OS jobs, where it can store games on the hard drive without needing the discs to play them. I keep my top 30 favorite games on it, like SSX 3 and that Riddick game called Escape from Butcher Bay.

[jamisonia]

So I was able adjust firebrand's profiles using 240p test suite for my TV. The only way I found to make the white level high enough was to adjust A/D significantly upwards. Black level also went up a few points.

Firebrand, did you use 240p test suite to calibrate the brightness settings?

[FBX]

So I was able adjust firebrand's profiles using 240p test suite for my TV. The only way I found to make the white level high enough was to adjust A/D significantly upwards. Black level also went up a few points.

Firebrand, did you use 240p test suite to calibrate the brightness settings?

Not a good idea because it's meant for your TV adjustments rather than the Framemeister. For example, you mentioned you had to turn the A/D "significantly upwards". I know from tests on various games that this will 'crush' the color space when you do this. Shades of greens that should be distinct will become a single color if you go too high. The upper boundary for RGB is about 140.

However, the test suite was quite useful for determining 4:3 linearity. I used it for ZOOM_WIDTH on my updated Genesis 4x 4:3 profiles, though I wished the suite also had a 256 mode linearity test.

[jamisonia]

The test suite allows you to check for color crush. Green is the first color to crush, most definitely. If you can then turn it down so that green is no longer crushing, which is only slightly below where white is crushing.

I'm not personally adjusting my TV set, which was already calibrated correctly for HD, but I will use the Mini to compensate for the unique adjustments required for game consoles. Which is mostly just adjusting for the NTSC 7.5 IRE level vs HD's 0 IRE Level.

[Chocograph]

OR...just fire up DKC and make sure you see some of the background jungle....

[Valandil]

Hey FBX, I've using your profiles and they are amazing! Not a single complain on my side. Thanks so much for putting the time and effort to build these. Question, is it in your plans to give some love to the Wii? I'd love to see what can be done in tricky games such as Skyward Sword and Xenoblade Chronicles.

Also, since the Virtual Console in Wii outputs the SNES and NES games in 240p over component, do you see any reason why your profiles built for those specific consoles wouldn't work as in the original hardware when using in the VC? Same question for GameCube games on a Wii.

Seriously man, thank you!!

[lettuce]

I will say though that you should look into nabbing some component cables. I was very impressed with the xbox's 480p mode. It was significantly better looking that the PS2 480p mode. Crystal clear in fact, and WAY better than 480i even with the Framemeister's horizontal softening bug. My own xbox is one of those hacked OS jobs, where it can store games on the hard drive without needing the discs to play them. I keep my top 30 favorite games on it, like SSX 3 and that Riddick game called Escape from Butcher Bay.

Saw this component to xrgb-mini cable on retroacables...

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/xbo ... -xrgb-mini

guess its an alternative to the d-terminal breakout cable which i cant seem to source here in the UK??

[FBX]

Saw this component to xrgb-mini cable on retroacables...

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/xbo ... -xrgb-mini

guess its an alternative to the d-terminal breakout cable which i cant seem to source here in the UK??

That's a pretty nifty cable! However, if you want a more universal solution, I went the Solaris Japan route and got their D-Terminal to female component adapter. I just use a generic xbox component cable plugged into that. My Gamecube component cables also get swapped into the adapter whenever I need to run that console.

Hey FBX, I've using your profiles and they are amazing! Not a single complain on my side. Thanks so much for putting the time and effort to build these. Question, is it in your plans to give some love to the Wii? I'd love to see what can be done in tricky games such as Skyward Sword and Xenoblade Chronicles.

Also, since the Virtual Console in Wii outputs the SNES and NES games in 240p over component, do you see any reason why your profiles built for those specific consoles wouldn't work as in the original hardware when using in the VC? Same question for GameCube games on a Wii.

Seriously man, thank you!!

Thanks! I wasn't interested in the wii virtual console due to side-by-side comparisons showing it is a bit more 'blurry' than RGB from the original consoles. I suppose if the reported output resolution is the same when you check the full status in the Framemeister, you might could use the original console profiles.

[pyrotek85]

Saw this component to xrgb-mini cable on retroacables...

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/xbo ... -xrgb-mini

guess its an alternative to the d-terminal breakout cable which i cant seem to source here in the UK??

That's a pretty nifty cable! However, if you want a more universal solution, I went the Solaris Japan route and got their D-Terminal to female component adapter. I just use a generic xbox component cable plugged into that. My Gamecube component cables also get swapped into the adapter whenever I need to run that console.

Yeah that's what I do as well. I'll actually be trying out a component switch box too in the near future when I rearrange things, as I have a PS2 in addition to the GC and Xbox you mentioned. Now if only I can get my hands on that gscartsw scart switch...

Off-topic, but I wonder why D-Terminal was never used elsewhere? It seems a lot easier to connect, and there would be less confusion with non-tech people, as there was always someone who'd mix the red component plug with the red audio plug.

[FBX]

Yeah that's what I do as well. I'll actually be trying out a component switch box too in the near future when I rearrange things, as I have a PS2 in addition to the GC and Xbox you mentioned. Now if only I can get my hands on that gscartsw scart switch...

I forgot about the PS2. I've got 5 of them from buying a crate full of consoles from Thor Aakerlund. I've got an old Gamestop component selector that works great, and it even has custom plastic label tabs for Gamecube, Xbox, PS2, etc. I don't think it's made any more (at least the model I have), but there may be different models available on ebay or Amazon.