XRGB-mini Framemeister

[TheShadowRunner]

Hi, I'm new here. Please let me know, if this is the wrong place I'm posting this.

A few weeks ago, I received my Framemeister unit. I have only used it with my Commodore 64 so far, and that is primarily what I will be using it for in the future. I have set it up with good settings now, and it gives a great picture! :P But one problem persists. As some people know, the C64 outputs video at an odd 50.xx Hz (I think it's .13 or .14, not sure), which causes the picture to stutter every 5-10 seconds. Usually it's invisible, but when you look at otherwise smooth scrolltexts, it's annoyingly visible. Weirdly enough, the STATUS page on the XRGB-mini indicates, that the input is at 50.00hz. That is a little puzzling. Anyway..

I HAVE researched a bit myself. Around the net, people talk about "V-LOCK" which, as far as I understand, will cause the input and output rates to match up. So like fx, 50.14 hz s-video in -> 50.14 hz HDMI out.. Am I right? I can see under STATUS, that mine is unlocked ("INP_OUTV: UNLOCK"). But I have been through the menus several times, and I cannot find an option to lock v-sync. :( Am I blind? I'd really like to try this, to see if that will solve my problem. Can anybody shed some light on this?

Firmware: v2.00a - english.

Thanks so much in advance.

-Brian

Not much help really, but does it help if you set:
Sync_set > sync_mode > OFF ?
Or if you play with Sync_time / Sync_level?

[thrash75]

Not much help really, but does it help if you set:
Sync_set > sync_mode > OFF ?
Or if you play with Sync_time / Sync_level?

Settings under SYNC_MODE and SYNC_TIME makes no difference. SYNC_LEVEL is greyed out. Why is that? I'm guessing because that setting is not available, when using s-video as input?

Thanks a lot for the suggestion. Anything that may help me..

-Brian

[FBX]

SYNC_LEVEL is greyed out. Why is that? I'm guessing because that setting is not available, when using s-video as input?

Yeah, I think it's only available when using RGB input.

[FBX]

Final Genesis profile added:

Code: Select all

GEN5X256:  (Genesis RGB 5x scale for the rare 256x224 mode)

This is for the original NTSC Sega Genesis console and is scaled to 5x the original 256x224 resolution via an RGB CSync cable. This profile is aligned to the more rare 256x224 mode that roughly 10% of the game library for the Genesis uses. An example game that uses this mode exclusively is "Insector X". Suggested display area: Full Pixel (even at this unscaled screen setting, there will be 4 pixels cropped from the top and bottom of the image).

This takes care of every aspect of the Genesis (other than the not-working 320x448 split-screen mode).

[AndysSeveredHead]

Hi. I've been lurking around this forum, for awhile, but this is my first time posting. I still consider myself a novice when it comes to upscaling and using the Framemeister, so forgive me if the answer to my question should be obvious: I'm having a problem with my Framemeister.

I've been using FBX's PS2 profiles; I have my PS2 hooked up to a Samsung UN22F5000 and the Framemeister through D-Terminal via the official component cables, and this problem only appears in games that offer both progressive scan and a 16:9 mode (Shadow of the Colossus, Ratchet & Clank, God of War...): the Framemeister won't display the image as 16:9, just 4:3. I've got the aspect ratio set correctly, and my TV is set to Screen Fit; I don't think I've set anything up wrong.

Oddly enough, disabling progressive scan in-game will cause a 16:9 image to render correctly. What am I doing wrong here? Any help would be greatly appreciated here. Thank you.

[Coryoon]

Can anyone who has a Framemeister and also a supergun please post;

Which Supergun you use?

and

If you have any synch issues with game boards?

[RGB32E]

Can anyone who has a Framemeister and also a supergun please post;

Which Supergun you use?

and

If you have any synch issues with game boards?

I have both. My supergun is a MAS Super Nova. I've modified the RGBS out from the JAMMA harness with a DB15M (Japanese RGB15 pin out) for use with a Micomsoft XAV-2s. I built and use a DB15F to 8MDIN cable with resistors to interface with the XRGB-mini. The resistors are on the RGB lines only; sync and ground are straight connections.

I've personally had no sync issues that haven't been solvable using the sync level adjustment on the XRGB-mini, and have always kept the sync lock enabled (AUTO). The display/TV you connect the mini to also plays a factor when it comes to sync tolerance. Here are some PCBs that I've heard of people having problems with that have worked on my setup:
-Michael Jackson's Moonwalker
-Neo Geo MVS // Note: with XRGB-3 B1 mode via VGA on my TV won't keep sync, but can be fixed by changing the main clock (1% overclock)
-Total Carnage // Same system as Midway Mortal Kombat

What PCBs are you having issues with? Have you unlocked sync, or played with sync level?

[FBX]

I've been using FBX's PS2 profiles; I have my PS2 hooked up to a Samsung UN22F5000 and the Framemeister through D-Terminal via the official component cables, and this problem only appears in games that offer both progressive scan and a 16:9 mode (Shadow of the Colossus, Ratchet & Clank, God of War...): the Framemeister won't display the image as 16:9, just 4:3. I've got the aspect ratio set correctly, and my TV is set to Screen Fit; I don't think I've set anything up wrong.

Have you tried the new PS2 widescreen 2x scale profiles I recently added (specifically PS2SWCPR)? They should both display at 16:9 so long as ZOOM is turned on and Aspect Ratio is set to 16:9.

If those work properly, we can go from there and get you something that is more smooth if you don't like the sharp look.

Edit: Just did a double-check and both the smooth (PS2COMPR) and the sharp (PS2SWCPR) progressive profiles work properly, but you MUST makes sure ZOOM is turned to "ON" and ASPECT_RATIO is set to "16:9" in the Framemeister.

[Coryoon]

Can anyone who has a Framemeister and also a supergun please post;

Which Supergun you use?

and

If you have any synch issues with game boards?

I have both. My supergun is a MAS Super Nova. I've modified the RGBS out from the JAMMA harness with a DB15M (Japanese RGB15 pin out) for use with a Micomsoft XAV-2s. I built and use a DB15F to 8MDIN cable with resistors to interface with the XRGB-mini. The resistors are on the RGB lines only; sync and ground are straight connections.

I've personally had no sync issues that haven't been solvable using the sync level adjustment on the XRGB-mini, and have always kept the sync lock enabled (AUTO). The display/TV you connect the mini to also plays a factor when it comes to sync tolerance. Here are some PCBs that I've heard of people having problems with that have worked on my setup:
-Michael Jackson's Moonwalker
-Neo Geo MVS // Note: with XRGB-3 B1 mode via VGA on my TV won't keep sync, but can be fixed by changing the main clock (1% overclock)
-Total Carnage // Same system as Midway Mortal Kombat

What PCBs are you having issues with? Have you unlocked sync, or played with sync level?

Thanks for the feedback.

I use a Sigma AV5000 and I have a range of PCBs, although was mainly testing my CPS2 boards and my MVS 1 slot.

I have to adjust the synch to reduce the picture jumping, but even then it doesn't completely resolve it. I think my TV is fine as it copes well enough if I just hook it up via scart direct.

Someone suggested that adding resistors would help / sort this, although I have no clue how to go about this, and wondered if I just changed to a SG that had an output that could be adjusted more (my AV5000 only has a brightness adjustment).

[Fudoh]

I think the Micomsoft XAV-2s adds a RGB encoder even for the RGB passthrough.

You could simply try adding a LM1881 to your RGB cable. This was always a good idea on the XRGB-3, even for systems that already use clean sync, but still gave some dropouts from time to time.

[AndysSeveredHead]

Nevermind: the problem seems to have fixed itself. Odd...I'm pretty sure I had Aspect Ratio and Zoom set correctly....If it comes up again, I'll speak up. Thanks for responding, FBX.

This is a kinda awkward way to introduce myself to the community...


Edit: Annnnd apparently I can't figure out how to properly reply yet. 2 for 2........

[FBX]

Nevermind: the problem seems to have fixed itself. Odd...I'm pretty sure I had Aspect Ratio and Zoom set correctly....If it comes up again, I'll speak up. Thanks for responding, FBX.

No sweat. Often times if ZOOM isn't turned "On", my profile will default to "SMART_2X" which disables 16:9 correction even if you try to turn it on. That may be what happened on your end. All my profiles only work if ZOOM is turned on, but unfortunately, profiles do not save whether or not it is turned on. So the profiles have to rely on the user making sure it is turned on either before or after loading them.

[FBX]

Just a very minor update in that I found my color settings for the various PS2 component profiles were all over the place, so I carefully re-edited each of them to have the same standard.


Also I'm working on testing the entire USA Sega Genesis library to generate a text file list of every game that uses 256x224 mode for the main part of the game. I'm up to letter "B" now, and the average percentage of games thus far that use this mode is at about 20%. In just about every case, it's a shitty 3rd party game with an obvious low development budget.

I'll include the text file list in the zip package once I get it finished, though it will probably take me two weeks to finish it.

[xamievilx]

are there any N64 (RGB Modded) profiles out there to try?

[Fudoh]

are there any N64 (RGB Modded) profiles out there to try?

N64 settings will heavily depend on the type of RGB mod and board model you have.

[FBX]

are there any N64 (RGB Modded) profiles out there to try?

Typically N64 games are 320x240, so you might could try the PSX RGB profiles and they should work in theory. I've held off on N64 profiles since I only have S-Video access at the moment.

[RGB32E]

are there any N64 (RGB Modded) profiles out there to try?

N64 settings will heavily depend on the type of RGB mod and board model you have.

Yeah, which is why sharing profiles is more or less a guessing game and potentially misleading, as there are always variables that will affect the final picture. That's why it's best to create your own profiles after understanding the settings on the XRGB-mini.

[CkRtech]

Typically N64 games are 320x240, so you might could try the PSX RGB profiles and they should work in theory. I've held off on N64 profiles since I only have S-Video access at the moment.

It is too bad the N64 looks rather terrible regardless of video output.

[RGB32E]

It is too bad the N64 looks rather terrible regardless of video output.

Indeed, no settings, profiles or mods can make the N64 look completely awesome given the techniques used in many games that do not look great when up-scaled to large flat panels. That said, the N64 did look pretty nice at the time on <= 32" CRTs, and the right mods do make the system look pretty good overall. The biggest issue though is the XRGB-mini 240p/480i switching times with many N64 games. I'm doubtful this will ever be fixed in FW since has been an issue since day one.

[FBX]

Typically N64 games are 320x240, so you might could try the PSX RGB profiles and they should work in theory. I've held off on N64 profiles since I only have S-Video access at the moment.

It is too bad the N64 looks rather terrible regardless of video output.

It's kind of why I've been putting it off. There are very few really good games for the system (let's face it, maybe 20 at best), and it looks like crap on anything other than a CRT.

[Konsolkongen]

-Neo Geo MVS // Note: with XRGB-3 B1 mode via VGA on my TV won't keep sync, but can be fixed by changing the main clock (1% overclock)

Would you mind sending me a link for that mod? I assume you get very close to 59.94Hz after overclocking?

Hi, I'm new here. Please let me know, if this is the wrong place I'm posting this.

A few weeks ago, I received my Framemeister unit. I have only used it with my Commodore 64 so far, and that is primarily what I will be using it for in the future. I have set it up with good settings now, and it gives a great picture! But one problem persists. As some people know, the C64 outputs video at an odd 50.xx Hz (I think it's .13 or .14, not sure), which causes the picture to stutter every 5-10 seconds. Usually it's invisible, but when you look at otherwise smooth scrolltexts, it's annoyingly visible. Weirdly enough, the STATUS page on the XRGB-mini indicates, that the input is at 50.00hz. That is a little puzzling. Anyway..

I HAVE researched a bit myself. Around the net, people talk about "V-LOCK" which, as far as I understand, will cause the input and output rates to match up. So like fx, 50.14 hz s-video in -> 50.14 hz HDMI out.. Am I right? I can see under STATUS, that mine is unlocked ("INP_OUTV: UNLOCK"). But I have been through the menus several times, and I cannot find an option to lock v-sync. Am I blind? I'd really like to try this, to see if that will solve my problem. Can anybody shed some light on this?

Firmware: v2.00a - english.

Thanks so much in advance.

-Brian

You have set the XRGB to output at 50Hz, right?

[austin532]

Nevermind: the problem seems to have fixed itself. Odd...I'm pretty sure I had Aspect Ratio and Zoom set correctly....If it comes up again, I'll speak up. Thanks for responding, FBX.

This is a kinda awkward way to introduce myself to the community...


Edit: Annnnd apparently I can't figure out how to properly reply yet. 2 for 2........

It's sounds to me like you had 4:3 selected for 480p and 16:9 for 480i. Not sure if you know this but the D-Terminal has a very VERY nice feature where it can save settings for each resolution type. Something the RGB input could really use. The profiles do help though. Also it's not recommended that you use Progressive Mode with games as the quality is not very good when going through the Mini.

To reply to someone just click on the quote button.

[thrash75]

As some people know, the C64 outputs video at an odd 50.xx Hz (I think it's .13 or .14, not sure), which causes the picture to stutter every 5-10 seconds. Usually it's invisible, but when you look at otherwise smooth scrolltexts, it's annoyingly visible. Weirdly enough, the STATUS page on the XRGB-mini indicates, that the input is at 50.00hz.

Around the net, people talk about "V-LOCK" which, as far as I understand, will cause the input and output rates to match up. I can see under STATUS, that mine is unlocked ("INP_OUTV: UNLOCK"). But I have been through the menus several times, and I cannot find an option to lock v-sync. Am I blind? I'd really like to try this, to see if that will solve my problem. Can anybody shed some light on this?

You have set the XRGB to output at 50Hz, right?

Haha.. Definitely a valid question. But yes. Yes, I have.

If someone in here can easily and clearly explain to me, HOW you enable and disable VLOCK, I would be eternally greatful.

-Brian

[Fudoh]

The only option you got is the SYNC MODE. You can't force it to on, just off or auto. Auto usually means ON, especially with refresh rates close to standard specs.

I'm at a loss why yours shows V_SYNC off with this particular source. I don't have any 50Hz source nearby, so somebody else has to chime in and confirm this.

[Hamburglar]

Have any of you guys ever tried using the mini with an OLED tv or a 4k tv?
What are your thoughts on that?

I think pretty much all OLED TVs are 4k. At least all the ones I can see at Best Buy's are. This might not be good for retro games because since the XRGB outputs at 1080p, that means the 4k TV is going to be doing some of the upscaling on its own, which kind of defeats the purpose of the XRGB.

OLEDs are magnificent for retro games. The only flat-screen that actually beats the Panasonic/Pioneer plasma screens(finally). The only annoying thing with them is that it seems all the ones available at regular retailers are "curved" which would probably not look great for purists like us. Hopefully normal, flat, 1080p OLED TVs become a thing some day.

[Hamburglar]

I am having a problem getting my SNES to give me a stable image on the XRGB Mini, and I am not sure what is left to try. The thing is, I am fairly certain it worked fine on the XRGB Mini before the latest update (though I am not 100% on it because it's been a while; have been quite busy lately but I don't think I would have put my SNES back together if it wasn't working on the XRGB).

Anyway it's a US 1CHIP-02 model 1 (not a mini). I am getting mixed reports as to whether or not the 1CHIP-02 has CSYNC wired up (I know for a fact the 1CHIP-03 does not). Anyway, I cannot get a stable image on the XRGB Mini with this SNES. Illusion of Gaia for example will give me the intro, but as soon as the title screen comes up, it blanks out and says "no signal". I still hear the music.

To rule out it being my cable, I have a 1CHIP-01 and it works fine in the exact same setup.

I know it is not the console because it works fine over composite and s-video.

Anyway, what can be wrong? Just to rule it out, I ran a wire from the CSYNC pin on the encoder to pin 3 of the SNES A/V port and I got the exact same result.

Since composite video is pin 9, I tried switching the wire from pin 3 to that (just in case my cable was wired up to use composite video for sync or something). Same exact result.

Does anyone know what could be wrong? Thank you.

[Jack Burton]

Have any of you guys ever tried using the mini with an OLED tv or a 4k tv?
What are your thoughts on that?

I think pretty much all OLED TVs are 4k. At least all the ones I can see at Best Buy's are. This might not be good for retro games because since the XRGB outputs at 1080p, that means the 4k TV is going to be doing some of the upscaling on its own, which kind of defeats the purpose of the XRGB.

OLEDs are magnificent for retro games. The only flat-screen that actually beats the Panasonic/Pioneer plasma screens(finally). The only annoying thing with them is that it seems all the ones available at regular retailers are "curved" which would probably not look great for purists like us. Hopefully normal, flat, 1080p OLED TVs become a thing some day.

Best buy has only one 4k old tv that I know of (and it's not available yet). Check it out: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-77-class ... Id=4226200 Also, I am not an expert on tvs, but the oled's I've researched have not had great input lag.

I have a 60" 4k vizio (p602ui-b3). I originally used the xrgb-2 with it, but upgraded to the mini. This thing is amazing. It works great with the vizio. The image is as pleasing to my eye as a great crt. (imo) Just make sure your tv has good input display lag.

Sorry about a very non-technical approval. Every different resolution I've tried has been rock solid, but I'm not a pc gamer (so I haven't tried everything). Some tv's have trouble with 4k at 60Hz, or 1080p at 120hz. Make sure you do your research. I've been running the mini at 720p since I haven't upgraded to the most recent firmware. Scalines look better at 720p for now. I'll upgrade in the future, but I'm fine for now. I also use the hdmi passthrough for the bone since my tv has one really fast hdmi input (around 19ms).

[RGB32E]

Thanks for the feedback.

I use a Sigma AV5000 and I have a range of PCBs, although was mainly testing my CPS2 boards and my MVS 1 slot.

I have to adjust the synch to reduce the picture jumping, but even then it doesn't completely resolve it. I think my TV is fine as it copes well enough if I just hook it up via scart direct.

Someone suggested that adding resistors would help / sort this, although I have no clue how to go about this, and wondered if I just changed to a SG that had an output that could be adjusted more (my AV5000 only has a brightness adjustment).

No problem! Someone created a thread on this very topic two years ago: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=47708. One solution is to use a LM1881 circuit on the sync line. The other is to rewire the RGB output from the JAMMA harness to bypass any of the sigma's video circuitry.

[Konsolkongen]

Have any of you guys ever tried using the mini with an OLED tv or a 4k tv?
What are your thoughts on that?

I think pretty much all OLED TVs are 4k. At least all the ones I can see at Best Buy's are. This might not be good for retro games because since the XRGB outputs at 1080p, that means the 4k TV is going to be doing some of the upscaling on its own, which kind of defeats the purpose of the XRGB.

Actually both 720p and 1080p scales perfectly to Ultra HD. I always assumed that most of us uses 720p from the XRGB-mini, since that's the only choice if you want nice scanlines. 1080p may look sharper, but the pixels gets stretched unevenly, unless you choose to fiddle with the zoom settings and overscan the picture :/

The fact that both 720p and 1080p scales so well to Ultra HD is the only exciting thing about a resolution that high IMO. There will never be a PS4 or Xbox One game that runs in that resolution anyway, and even if they somehow manage to pull that off, it will likely run like crap, or be limited to some artsy indie stuff I don't care about anyway.
The next generation of consoles may support Ultra HD, but probably won't have physical media, so I'm not gonna buy those anyway

[thrash75]

If someone in here can easily and clearly explain to me, HOW you enable and disable VLOCK, I would be eternally greatful.

The only option you got is the SYNC MODE. You can't force it to on, just off or auto. Auto usually means ON, especially with refresh rates close to standard specs.

I'm at a loss why yours shows V_SYNC off with this particular source. I don't have any 50Hz source nearby, so somebody else has to chime in and confirm this.

Ah, okay. Thank you. I did play around with that option. And yes, it always keeps vsync unlocked, in my case. So.. I have a thought..:

If SYNC MODE is set to AUTO, it only enables VSYNC if the input is anything but straight 60.00 or 50.00 hz. If input is 50.00 or 60.00 hz, it keeps it off. Yes? It makes sense in my head.

But, man.. In this particular case it would be wonderful, if it could be forced on! Or be in full control of the output hz, right down to the last decimal.

-Brian