too close for comfort - black label

BPzeBanshee · Post by **BPzeBanshee** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:32 am

EmuCR is compiling builds for it but it has a lot of dependency requirements I don't think my Windows 8.1 laptop could handle, otherwise I'd give this a spin. Also I have no 360 ISOs to test it with and the last time I tried to make my own it didn't even recognise it as a 360 disc.

liteon · Post by **liteon** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:52 pm

Demul 0.7a Alpha is release with cave 3rd (sh3;cv1k)
Thank you xMetalliCx

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:14 pm

liteon wrote:Demul 0.7a Alpha is release with cave 3rd (sh3;cv1k)
Thank you xMetalliCx

Ohhhhh baby...

Shepardus · Post by **Shepardus** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:42 pm

Anybody who's tried it out yet and has any words on how it compares to MAME's emulation?

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:19 pm

Shepardus wrote:Anybody who's tried it out yet and has any words on how it compares to MAME's emulation?

So far, it runs all of the CAVE games full speed on my C2D E8400 (couldn't say that for MAME). I have no idea how accurate the emulation is, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are issues with correct slowdown at the very least.

It's pretty great to finally be able to play these games, though.

trap15 · Post by **trap15** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:58 am

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised in the slowdown was closer than MAME.

Shepardus · Post by **Shepardus** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:22 am

I just tried this out for myself. I can't speak to the accuracy, but performance is definitely a lot better in Demul. Everything I've tried has been running at full speed on both my laptop and desktop, compared to MAME which slows down to around 80% on even the title screen of Muchi Muchi Pork (MMP and PS, and to a lesser extent Ibara, have real issues running smoothly in MAME for me). Also, savestates seem to work, while they were screwy at best in MAME. I'm impressed.

Is there any button to fast forward emulation in Demul?

Cee · Post by **Cee** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:25 am

Performance is massively improved over the mame counterpart. The graphic options don't seem to be working atm though so everything looks kinda ass on an lcd.

cave hermit · Post by **cave hermit** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:19 pm

Where can I get this version of demul? The latest version offered by the main site is .582

xMetalliCx · Post by **xMetalliCx** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:30 pm

Shepardus wrote:Is there any button to fast forward emulation in Demul?

Insert key, same as MAME

cave hermit wrote:Where can I get this version of demul? The latest version offered by the main site is .582

from official forum, where is all wip anouncements
http://forum.emu-russia.net/viewtopic.p ... 973#p23973

trap15 wrote:On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised in the slowdown was closer than MAME.

I will be bery surprised if it will be closer

btw, it can be not too obvious to everyone - slowdowns settings is at Config -> Video -> Blitter Limit
the lesser number is - much slowpokes will happen

SMC · Post by **SMC** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:27 pm

liteon wrote:Demul 0.7a Alpha is release with cave 3rd (sh3;cv1k)
Thank you xMetalliCx

Oh wow, this is amazing.

BPzeBanshee · Post by **BPzeBanshee** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:28 pm

Thanks for going public with this xMetalliCx!

I've encountered a crash bug using the default settings for everything though: seems whenever I started windowed, go fullscreen, go windowed and then shut the game down Demul will then crash. Anyone else getting the same issue?

Default settings are too "fast" for Deathsmiles but I notice the load-related slowdowns with Muchi Muchi Pork and Pink Sweets seem very much present without bogging down overall performance which is great. I just gotta figure out how to get the upscaling as good as what MAME does, tweak the blitter vars to whatever MAME's 63% translates to (or even find a more precise value since Demul's option is *very* precise) and I'm set!

For people with harddrive struggles I recommend putting the CV1000 roms in .7zs compressed to Ultra. Demul and MAME both work fine with it and it cuts filesize down by as much as 50% per zip.

thetricker24 · Post by **thetricker24** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:04 am

So pink sweets and muchi muchi pork slowdowns are accurate ? What about ibara and ibara kuro? I guess cavesh3 emulation will still take a while... but thats a great step thanks demul guys!
I buy all the ports i can but still hope for a decent emulation

Cee · Post by **Cee** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:22 am

BPzeBanshee wrote:
I've encountered a crash bug using the default settings for everything though: seems whenever I started windowed, go fullscreen, go windowed and then shut the game down Demul will then crash. Anyone else getting the same issue?

Yeah had the same thing a bunch of times.

Strikers1945guy · Post by **Strikers1945guy** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:59 pm

thetricker24 wrote:So pink sweets and muchi muchi pork slowdowns are accurate ? What about ibara and ibara kuro? I guess cavesh3 emulation will still take a while... but thats a great step thanks demul guys!
I buy all the ports i can but still hope for a decent emulation

I highly doubt it. Dosent ESPRADE not even run properly yet? Ibara has crazy slowdown in certain areas like the stage 3 trains, kuro even more so if you're launching 3 hados in there.

xMetalliCx · Post by **xMetalliCx** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:00 am

BPzeBanshee wrote:I've encountered a crash bug using the default settings for everything though: seems whenever I started windowed, go fullscreen, go windowed and then shut the game down Demul will then crash. Anyone else getting the same issue?

its known issue, and very weird. it crashes somewhere deep inside DirectX libraries, so I guess its some Microsoft's bug ) it doesnt happen then I/we run emulator from Visual Studio, and makes this even more odd and hard to debug.

BPzeBanshee wrote:Default settings are too "fast" for Deathsmiles but I notice the load-related slowdowns with Muchi Muchi Pork and Pink Sweets seem very much present without bogging down overall performance which is great. I just gotta figure out how to get the upscaling as good as what MAME does, tweak the blitter vars to whatever MAME's 63% translates to (or even find a more precise value since Demul's option is *very* precise) and I'm set!

default value is errm... default, so all games works more-less good. as I remember, default value was about 60000000 (or 66000000 ?), mainly for Futari/BL. but it was to less for DDP DF and makes too much slowdowns on ship select screen, so it was increased to 70000000

thetricker24 wrote:So pink sweets and muchi muchi pork slowdowns are accurate ? What about ibara and ibara kuro?

there no term "accurate". player MUST go to setting and tweak blitter limit BY HIMSELF, to some value he think produce "accurate enough" slowdowns in the game he plays.

pbsk8 · Post by **pbsk8** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:36 pm

About the blitter delay, the value 70 is ok for cave sh3? Because here for some games it got too fast sometimes.

I always set 63 on mame and I did the same for demul, but it got too slow many times. Is there an approximate value?

Disable auto sort, Disable opaque modifier and Disable translucent modifier help run better in slower hardware?

Shepardus · Post by **Shepardus** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:45 pm

Does Demul support recording and playing back input files?

Muchi Muchi Spork · Post by **Muchi Muchi Spork** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:33 pm

pbsk8 wrote:About the blitter delay, the value 70 is ok for cave sh3? Because here for some games it got too fast sometimes.

I always set 63 on mame and I did the same for demul, but it got too slow many times. Is there an approximate value?

To get it as accurate as you currently can you would need to set it differently per game. Someone could watch real pcb videos and maybe figure some out, somewhat. Someone would need to figure out how to measure it off real pcbs I think, and even then I'm not sure if it would lead to things being totally accurate in emulation, but maybe. I don't think the slowdown on their ports is accurate either (just from what I've read, I don't own them).

SMC · Post by **SMC** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:22 am

It would be nice if at some point it was possible to implement TASing tools like frame advance and rerecording. I'm pretty interested in the idea of TASing a shmup for the highest theoretically possible score, and I'd like to try creating one at some point, but in most cases the tools to actually do something like this just don't currently exist. Of course, I'm not an emu dev so I have no idea how difficult it would be to actually implement. The savestates seem to be a LOT more stable than MAME, but still not perfect. I've had one crash from loading so far.

Muchi Muchi Spork · Post by **Muchi Muchi Spork** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:19 pm

You could just use an invincibility cheat and increased slowdown but then you wouldn't end up with a video worth watching. You'd have your answer though.

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:02 pm

Does adjusting the internal resolution setting do anything? I don't see any difference even when I crank it up to 6x. There's no filtering enabled either, is there?

Cee · Post by **Cee** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:30 pm

captpain wrote:Does adjusting the internal resolution setting do anything? I don't see any difference even when I crank it up to 6x. There's no filtering enabled either, is there?

I mentioned this a few posts back but no one replied, for me none of the graphic settings do anything at the moment.

xMetalliCx · Post by **xMetalliCx** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:35 pm

captpain wrote:Does adjusting the internal resolution setting do anything? I don't see any difference even when I crank it up to 6x. There's no filtering enabled either, is there?

no, internal resolution setting is 3D rendering option, CV1K doesnt have any 3D so no effect here.
also, shader filtering is not implemented for CV1K.

pokemon123 · Post by **pokemon123** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:47 am

going to sound dumb but how do i get demul in fullscreen? I go to video settings and click "use fullscreen" but it still launches in windowed mode?

Cee · Post by **Cee** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:10 am

pokemon123 wrote:going to sound dumb but how do i get demul in fullscreen? I go to video settings and click "use fullscreen" but it still launches in windowed mode?

alt+enter

BPzeBanshee · Post by **BPzeBanshee** » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:54 pm

What is the actual fillrate used in MAME by default anyway? 50% as an arbitrary value vs 7,000,000,000px/sec or whatever it is doesn't mean much without knowing whatever px/sec MAME considers half rate, and the cfg files generated from MAME don't give a precise value either.

xMetalliCx · Post by **xMetalliCx** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:40 pm

fill rate = 1,000,000,000 / (15 * MAMErate / 50)

so 50% is approximate 66M

trap15 · Post by **trap15** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 3:52 am

Haven't tried this yet, is there separate fill rate settings for the different blend modes? Surely doing transparency isn't the same speed on the real blitter as a plain copy

xMetalliCx · Post by **xMetalliCx** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:51 am

I doubt, had the same idea ~4years ago, but at least my tests says its seems not true.
so I think blitter works in a stupid cheap and ineffective (like most things in Cave hardware LOL) fixed pipeline, i.e. it always do blend, or at least always do 3 memory accesses at each pixel blit - read source pixel, read destination, write destination, even if read destination not needed with blend off.

speaking of *REALLY* badly emulated things - why no one complains about badly emulated sound ?
in many cases sfx sounds wrong, sometimes completely wrong. this is best notable on rapid shooting sounds, in Deathmiles/MBL for example. the real hardware have it mostly different.
this happens because game code starts/stops playing shooting sound samples with very high rate. in MAME/Demul this start/stop events handled immediately, so you hear very short 'parts' of shoot sound samples repeated at very high rate, and it sounds completely *not* like PCB. so I suspect in real YMZ770 keyon/off events handled only at certain time, lets say each 32(?) sound samples (sequencer clock) for example...

trap15 I know you are familiar with sound ICs and somewhat good at this, why not pay attention to YMZ770 ?
instead of wasting time on this stupid slowdowns (which no one cares except few crazy shmupfuns

)

shmups.system11.org

too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label

Re: too close for comfort - black label