SNES 1Chip-01 or 1Chip-02?

Josh128 · Post by **Josh128** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:20 pm

bobrocks95 wrote:You have a local TV shop that would actually know how to work on a CRT? Are you a time traveler?

lol Lanclos TV Service in Opelousas, LA. About 25 minute drive, but yeah-- they've been around forever and are legit. Some of the old techs there are very familiar with CRTs.

Einzelherz · Post by **Einzelherz** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:59 pm

My 1CHIP-03 works with my SNES RGB cable, fwiw. I assume it's using composite as sync, but it looks fantastic to me. I just use a CSY clone though, no fancy Framemeisters here.

TheShadowRunner · Post by **TheShadowRunner** » Mon May 25, 2015 12:07 am

RGB32E wrote:Another 1CHIP functional difference can be found on the Soul Blazer title intro. There's slowdown as "SoulBlazer" scrolls across the screen.

Yes, which is fixed by a simple "reset"!
I wonder why/how simply resetting does the trick, and if it would be possible to patch the game somehow to make it always 'intro bug-free' on 1CHIPs..

darcagn · Post by **darcagn** » Mon May 25, 2015 12:38 am

Josh128 wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:You have a local TV shop that would actually know how to work on a CRT? Are you a time traveler?
lol Lanclos TV Service in Opelousas, LA. About 25 minute drive, but yeah-- they've been around forever and are legit. Some of the old techs there are very familiar with CRTs.

Well if there's any place that's like time travel, it'd be Opelousas.

(Louisianian here.

)

speedlolita · Post by **speedlolita** » Tue May 26, 2015 2:07 pm

Can't remember exactly what board revision I have in my SNES Mini, but it is a 1997 board.

Have it RGB modded using the same circuit I used with my Duo R and Nintendo 64 (THS7314), with composite video for sync. On my KX-14CP1 with an official GameCube SCART cable it might be the sharpest RGB console I have. Also added a 220uF 6.3V capacitors on the 7805 and two on the RGB chip to get rid of the vertical white stripe on certain games (like the intro to FF3/6) and it worked a treat.

Regarding the bright whites too, I use 100ohm on the output of the amp instead of 75ohm and it works a treat across the board.

Chocograph · Post by **Chocograph** » Wed May 27, 2015 5:25 am

I recieved a 60hz pal modded 1chip-01 from ebay a few days ago and compared it to my 92 model on my CRT. Close to no difference. On the framemeister the 1chip looks super sharp. I'm really happy. THEN...yesterday...I finally received my retro console accessories (ebay) proper made SNES pal rgb cables and compared to my cheap rbg cable that I've used for years the image is night and day. That cable just cleaned up EVERYTHING. No fuzzyness, no distortion or noise and no checkerboards on any of the colors. It's just that I've not noticed any of this on my CRT. I seriously doubt you can go wrong with any of the 1chips.

speedlolita · Post by **speedlolita** » Wed May 27, 2015 11:13 am

Chocograph wrote:I recieved a 60hz pal modded 1chip-01 from ebay a few days ago and compared it to my 92 model on my CRT. Close to no difference. On the framemeister the 1chip looks super sharp. I'm really happy. THEN...yesterday...I finally received my retro console accessories (ebay) proper made SNES pal rgb cables and compared to my cheap rbg cable that I've used for years the image is night and day. That cable just cleaned up EVERYTHING. No fuzzyness, no distortion or noise and no checkerboards on any of the colors. It's just that I've not noticed any of this on my CRT. I seriously doubt you can go wrong with any of the 1chips.

And this is why I only use official RGB cables!

Chocograph · Post by **Chocograph** » Wed May 27, 2015 3:01 pm

speedlolita wrote:
Chocograph wrote:I recieved a 60hz pal modded 1chip-01 from ebay a few days ago and compared it to my 92 model on my CRT. Close to no difference. On the framemeister the 1chip looks super sharp. I'm really happy. THEN...yesterday...I finally received my retro console accessories (ebay) proper made SNES pal rgb cables and compared to my cheap rbg cable that I've used for years the image is night and day. That cable just cleaned up EVERYTHING. No fuzzyness, no distortion or noise and no checkerboards on any of the colors. It's just that I've not noticed any of this on my CRT. I seriously doubt you can go wrong with any of the 1chips.
And this is why I only use official RGB cables!

Thing is I've never noticed this on CRT before. I've been playing all my retro stuff on CRT with RGB since 95. I've known about "cheap" cables and "expensive" cables all these years but since I never noticed anything of the stuff people have described I never bothered to see for myself. And like I said...the difference on my CRT is minimal. On my CRT I don't see any noise or checkerboards so this surprised me. I've always read comments saying "don't buy the cheap cables, they're a ripoff" but for the framemeister they're on another level for sure. I've bought three other cables too. If you're going to compare official cables with retro console accessories "quality type cables" then -without actually knowing- I can't comprehend there to be a difference at all. The picture is rock solid. I refuse to believe official cables are any better but if they are it's got to be minimal. Yes? No?

TheShadowRunner · Post by **TheShadowRunner** » Wed May 27, 2015 7:43 pm

Chocograph wrote:The picture is rock solid. I refuse to believe official cables are any better but if they are it's got to be minimal. Yes? No?

Yes don't worry, retro console accessories cables are excellent and most likely to give identical results to official cables.
Actually certain official cables are not the best, far from it, for exemple the Nintendo GC official RGB EURO cable (DOL-013) has 1 single ground connection for everything (on pin 17)..
If you are to use this cable with an adapter or a SCART input that expects ground elsewhere, you're SOL.

Chocograph · Post by **Chocograph** » Wed May 27, 2015 8:11 pm

TheShadowRunner wrote:
Chocograph wrote:The picture is rock solid. I refuse to believe official cables are any better but if they are it's got to be minimal. Yes? No?
Yes don't worry, retro console accessories cables are excellent and most likely to give identical results to official cables.
Actually certain official cables are not the best, far from it, for exemple the Nintendo GC official RGB EURO cable (DOL-013) has 1 single ground connection for everything (on pin 17)..
If you are to use this cable with an adapter or a SCART input that expects ground elsewhere, you're SOL.

http://postimg.org/image/p3c7a15lr/6883c07e/ I posted this in the framemeister thread. My N64 official pal mod RGB cables from retro accessories giving weird static noise. It's slowly running up the screen. Bad cable?

bobrocks95 · Post by **bobrocks95** » Wed May 27, 2015 8:55 pm

Chocograph wrote:http://postimg.org/image/p3c7a15lr/6883c07e/ I posted this in the framemeister thread. My N64 official pal mod RGB cables from retro accessories giving weird static noise. It's slowly running up the screen. Bad cable?

Interesting, I get the same interference pattern with most component cables on my plasma... Are you using a switch of any kind? What kind of TV are you connected to?

Chocograph · Post by **Chocograph** » Thu May 28, 2015 4:42 am

bobrocks95 wrote:
Chocograph wrote:http://postimg.org/image/p3c7a15lr/6883c07e/ I posted this in the framemeister thread. My N64 official pal mod RGB cables from retro accessories giving weird static noise. It's slowly running up the screen. Bad cable?
Interesting, I get the same interference pattern with most component cables on my plasma... Are you using a switch of any kind? What kind of TV are you connected to?

Sony KDL32D3000 from 2008. 720p tv. Framemeister. The N64 doesn't have any switches. Both my pal snes consoles do of course. I get this interference both with and without the csync mini adapter. The pal SNES cables are perfect. with no noise. It could very well be the mod itself but I have no idea.

wyatt8740 · Post by **wyatt8740** » Thu May 28, 2015 4:43 am

Josh128 wrote:Well I have an original North American NTSC launch console I got when I was a kid, and I have my SNES Mini I bought and modded last year. I bought Starfox when it was released and played the shit out of it.

Never compared the game on the two consoles, but I can tell you that on the original it tops out at about 20fps with regular drops to 15, 10, and lower. I extremely skeptical that the Mini or any other genuine SNES runs it any differently than the original. That makes zero sense.

When I get a minute I will check though... and post back.

More on topic though-- isnt the SNES Mini supposed to have better RGB out when modded than any of the original form factor SNES's? The difference between my childhood launch SNES and my SNES mini on both the F4500 plasma and the 27" FD Trinitron Wega is quite dramatic.

The framerate is due to a DMA bug in launch-day SNES consoles. Doing something immediately after DMA would return garbage data, I forget what it was. So devs had to work around it on consoles with the bug.

bobrocks95 wrote:To quote Byuu (author of bsnes/higan) RE the 1-chip:

honestly more of a clone system. There are "drastic" changes. Not so much stuff that's going to affect most games directly, but stuff that tells you the chip is radically different on the inside. Things like the SMP Timer Glitch vanishing, different behaviors of the TEST register, some DSP subtleties, the PPU being entirely different, and mid-scanline effects are totally different which affects games like A.S.P. Air Strike Patrol where the plane's shadow is almost invisible.
A bit of hearsay (source here: http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 52&t=46303), but it sounds about right and I feel I've heard the quote before (also a more complete snippet here, so it has to be from somewhere: http://superfamicom.org/console-serial-database). The first linked thread also mentions other differences between the regular console and the 1-chip that are worth noting.

Really it's a give and take depending on what games you play and what bothers you most.

I think the 1chip is not a 'clone' system but a revision. Like I would not consider the Commodore 64's that had the 'poorer' SID (8580 being worse than the 6581) to be clones, just different revisions.

Also, while we're on the subject, I bought a random SNES at a used game store a few years ago - I'd never had one before. By pure chance, bought a 1CHIP-02. It is great. I have some pics of it on my new PVM: http://imgur.com/a/GYZQu

I think the C64 analogy is good though. No disrespect intended towards byuu, but in my experience a SNES is a SNES is a SNES.

...Also, my RGB cables are just fine (click to enlarge):

TheShadowRunner · Post by **TheShadowRunner** » Thu May 28, 2015 5:32 am

wyatt8740 wrote:By pure chance, bought a 1CHIP-02. It is great.

Wow lucky!

...Also, my RGB cables are just fine

Hmm just wondering, why butcher an SNES when it has all these signals on the Multi-out?

darcagn · Post by **darcagn** » Thu May 28, 2015 7:28 am

If you're going to do that, at least get some panel-mount connectors so you don't have those visible ugly plastic cuts

BazookaBen · Post by **BazookaBen** » Thu May 28, 2015 8:09 am

Ewwww, you would have been way better off making a short MultiAV>VGA cable, then connecting to your monitor with a VGA>BNC cable. That way you can leave your SNES unscathed.

CkRtech · Post by **CkRtech** » Thu May 28, 2015 8:23 am

BazookaBen wrote:Ewwww, you would have been way better off making a short MultiAV>VGA cable, then connecting to your monitor with a VGA>BNC cable. That way you can leave your SNES unscathed.

That is a lot of trouble vs what he already did. I think it looks good, although I would go with darcagn's suggestion of using panel mount.

wyatt8740 · Post by **wyatt8740** » Thu May 28, 2015 8:04 pm

TheShadowRunner wrote:
wyatt8740 wrote:By pure chance, bought a 1CHIP-02. It is great.
Wow lucky!
...Also, my RGB cables are just fine
Hmm just wondering, why butcher an SNES when it has all these signals on the Multi-out?

Because my multi-out cable doesn't have pins for RGB and I didn't want to spend a dime.

BazookaBen wrote:Ewwww, you would have been way better off making a short MultiAV>VGA cable, then connecting to your monitor with a VGA>BNC cable. That way you can leave your SNES unscathed.

Well, I don't have spare multiAV plugs lying around. They aren't exactly common. And I prefer to go through fewer adapters rather than more.

CkRtech wrote:
BazookaBen wrote:Ewwww, you would have been way better off making a short MultiAV>VGA cable, then connecting to your monitor with a VGA>BNC cable. That way you can leave your SNES unscathed.
That is a lot of trouble vs what he already did. I think it looks good, although I would go with darcagn's suggestion of using panel mount.

Thanks

I used those because I had them handy. Next time I go out I'll get some panel mounts.

BazookaBen · Post by **BazookaBen** » Thu May 28, 2015 9:12 pm

wyatt8740 wrote: Well, I don't have spare multiAV plugs lying around. They aren't exactly common. And I prefer to go through fewer adapters rather than more.

I found some:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=%28 ... mfe=search

darcagn · Post by **darcagn** » Fri May 29, 2015 10:22 am

BazookaBen wrote:
wyatt8740 wrote: Well, I don't have spare multiAV plugs lying around. They aren't exactly common. And I prefer to go through fewer adapters rather than more.
I found some:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=%28 ... mfe=search

Not all of those are going to be fully pinned, though.

Play-Asia sells RGB cables for $3.99 that have fully pinned multiout connectors. The quality of these cables is very poor, but for $3.99 they are useful to purchase and take apart to harvest the multiout connectors, the SCART connectors, and the multicolored wiring for other projects.

FBX · Post by **FBX** » Fri May 29, 2015 12:45 pm

wyatt8740 wrote: No disrespect intended towards byuu, but in my experience a SNES is a SNES is a SNES.

It's not a question of experience, but rather of facts. It is a fact that the 1CHIP line is less compatible than all prior revisions, and that's due to the different hardware not 'mimicing' what the game code expects the machine to do. I can see the differences first-hand on my -03 model. It's tolerable, but definitely noticed on the games it negatively impacts. Therefore, a SNES is not a SNES is not a SNES.

wyatt8740 · Post by **wyatt8740** » Fri May 29, 2015 6:08 pm

BazookaBen wrote:
wyatt8740 wrote: Well, I don't have spare multiAV plugs lying around. They aren't exactly common. And I prefer to go through fewer adapters rather than more.
I found some:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=%28 ... mfe=search

Yeah, I know you can get them, but I don't like waiting for the mail.
Meanwhile, if I ever lose a multi-out cable, this way I can get video out with standard RCA's. Probably can get audio out as well if I just drill another two holes!

FBX wrote:It's not a question of experience, but rather of facts. It is a fact that the 1CHIP line is less compatible than all prior revisions, and that's due to the different hardware not 'mimicing' what the game code expects the machine to do. I can see the differences first-hand on my -03 model. It's tolerable, but definitely noticed on the games it negatively impacts. Therefore, a SNES is not a SNES is not a SNES.

My point is that while timing may be slightly different, the die inside the 1CHIP is not 'emulating' as byuu would suggest. It is authentic hardware.
You are right, of course, about the minor details like the shadow under that plane.
Also, I don't actually have any of the games it negatively impacts :\

darcagn wrote:Not all of those are going to be fully pinned, though.

Play-Asia sells RGB cables for $3.99 that have fully pinned multiout connectors. The quality of these cables is very poor, but for $3.99 they are useful to purchase and take apart to harvest the multiout connectors, the SCART connectors, and the multicolored wiring for other projects.

Did not know that, noted

Thanks!

CkRtech · Post by **CkRtech** » Fri May 29, 2015 6:15 pm

wyatt8740 wrote:Yeah, I know you can get them, but I don't like waiting for the mail.
Meanwhile, if I ever lose a multi-out cable, this way I can get video out with standard RCA's. Probably can get audio out as well if I just drill another two holes!

I made a multiout to VGA RGB cable for SNES by cannibalizing a couple of composite cables, but I do wonder if perhaps it would have been even better to just put RCA (or even BNC) connectors on the back of the SNES for RGBS. I could just wire-up the necessary caps inside the SNES and then use a high quality BNC to VGA cable externally and skip all of the pin-soldering work. Adding RCA for stereo audio (like you said) would be nice for running analog audio as well and would probably be good for cutting down on hum. Although the SPDIF alternative is much better, imo (at least for me).

wyatt8740 · Post by **wyatt8740** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:26 am

CkRtech wrote:
wyatt8740 wrote:Yeah, I know you can get them, but I don't like waiting for the mail.
Meanwhile, if I ever lose a multi-out cable, this way I can get video out with standard RCA's. Probably can get audio out as well if I just drill another two holes!
I made a multiout to VGA RGB cable for SNES by cannibalizing a couple of composite cables, but I do wonder if perhaps it would have been even better to just put RCA (or even BNC) connectors on the back of the SNES for RGBS. I could just wire-up the necessary caps inside the SNES and then use a high quality BNC to VGA cable externally and skip all of the pin-soldering work. Adding RCA for stereo audio (like you said) would be nice for running analog audio as well and would probably be good for cutting down on hum. Although the SPDIF alternative is much better, imo (at least for me).

Besides the audio (which would be easy) this is exactly what I did... except not VGA. VGA being an incompatible scan rate and all.

CkRtech · Post by **CkRtech** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:05 am

wyatt8740 wrote:Besides the audio (which would be easy) this is exactly what I did... except not VGA. VGA being an incompatible scan rate and all.

Well, by VGA I mean I used the HD-15 connector and wired it similar to VGA with the composite sync using the horizontal sync pin. It is still 15khz RGBs.

Mishrak109 · Post by **Mishrak109** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:30 pm

As someone who also has a snes modded to have component video ports on it in addition to the multi out (which is RGB restored), I can safely say having two separate video outputs on a SNES is absolutely amazing.

Chocograph · Post by **Chocograph** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:28 am

I did the vertical bar fix on my 1-chip-01 just now. It wasn't really difficult. And I know a lot of you here are -probably- a hundred times more skilled than I am at electronics. Just showing you for fun.

FBX · Post by **FBX** » Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:12 pm

Chocograph wrote:I did the vertical bar fix on my 1-chip-01 just now. It wasn't really difficult. And I know a lot of you here are -probably- a hundred times more skilled than I am at electronics. Just showing you for fun.

Nice work! Edit: LoL, I just now noticed you did cap the encoder line. Sorry about missing that.

Thankfully my 1CHIP-03 has no stripe issue, but I do have a couple of other revisions that have it badly. I might experiment around with it myself.

mvsfan · Post by **mvsfan** » Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:26 pm

i havent had 1 1-chip yet with the stripe in the video.
Only consoles ive noticed it on is the non-1chips.

mvsfan · Post by **mvsfan** » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:42 pm

Im wondering if anyone knows what parts nintendo changed between the 1-Chip 01, 02, and the 03

that makes the video quality on the 03 a bit better?

it would be good to know if its possible to also change them on the 01 and 02. To me they all look like exactly the same board.

shmups.system11.org

SNES 1Chip-01 or 1Chip-02?

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