SNES 1Chip-01 or 1Chip-02?

StriderNo9 · Post by **StriderNo9** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:06 pm

Hey guys,

I'm in search of an SNES with a 1Chip built in, I found a few on eBay. Now, I've found SNES consoles with 1Chip-01 on it, 1Chip-02 on it, and I know from these forums there is a 1Chip-03 variation as well but I've yet to see this on eBay. I'll be using S-Video to my TV. Any differences between these variations? Any clear cut winner?

bobrocks95 · Post by **bobrocks95** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:09 pm

If you're just using S-Video I don't think it much matters. Any of the 1-chip revisions shouldn't have the white line (someone correct me if I'm wrong) and the quality difference likely isn't notable in S-Video.

BazookaBen · Post by **BazookaBen** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 9:48 pm

Did you change your mind about going RGB>Component? RGB modding a SNES Jr. is really easy.

austin532 · Post by **austin532** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:41 pm

Realistically, how much of a difference is there between the 3 chips anyway? They all look good to me but I know the pixel purists/videophiles will always snag up the 03 if given the opportunity due to it being the sharpest of the originals.

On a further note I know the 1-chips are known to have issues with slowdown, overly bright whites, artifacts/glitches, ghosting, and maybe a few others as well so it's not the end all be all version of the original SNES model like so many people like to claim.

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:03 pm

austin532 wrote:On a further note I know the 1-chips are known to have issues with slowdown, overly bright whites, artifacts/glitches, ghosting, and maybe a few others as well so it's not the end all be all version of the original SNES model like so many people like to claim.

Hate to be a bother, but could you point me in the direction of some discussion of this?

There is this older topic (I never got around to making that comparison, which I should since I have Yoshi's Island, though not Star Fox).

Josh128 · Post by **Josh128** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:57 am

Well I have an original North American NTSC launch console I got when I was a kid, and I have my SNES Mini I bought and modded last year. I bought Starfox when it was released and played the shit out of it.

Never compared the game on the two consoles, but I can tell you that on the original it tops out at about 20fps with regular drops to 15, 10, and lower. I extremely skeptical that the Mini or any other genuine SNES runs it any differently than the original. That makes zero sense.

When I get a minute I will check though... and post back.

More on topic though-- isnt the SNES Mini supposed to have better RGB out when modded than any of the original form factor SNES's? The difference between my childhood launch SNES and my SNES mini on both the F4500 plasma and the 27" FD Trinitron Wega is quite dramatic.

bobrocks95 · Post by **bobrocks95** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:14 am

To quote Byuu (author of bsnes/higan) RE the 1-chip:

honestly more of a clone system. There are "drastic" changes. Not so much stuff that's going to affect most games directly, but stuff that tells you the chip is radically different on the inside. Things like the SMP Timer Glitch vanishing, different behaviors of the TEST register, some DSP subtleties, the PPU being entirely different, and mid-scanline effects are totally different which affects games like A.S.P. Air Strike Patrol where the plane's shadow is almost invisible.

A bit of hearsay (source here: http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopi ... 52&t=46303), but it sounds about right and I feel I've heard the quote before (also a more complete snippet here, so it has to be from somewhere: http://superfamicom.org/console-serial-database). The first linked thread also mentions other differences between the regular console and the 1-chip that are worth noting.

Really it's a give and take depending on what games you play and what bothers you most.

FBX · Post by **FBX** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:59 am

I've got a 1CHIP-03 and here's the simple truth:

1. The 1CHIP revisions have a few games where the top line of graphics will have the occasional random appearance of garbage, like in Demon's Crest for example. It's a minimal issue.

2. The 1CHIP line has the least amount of "vertical stripe" issue, with my own 1CHIP-03 having virtually none that I can detect with the naked eye.

3. The -01 and -02 revisions are RGB + CSync ready, while the -03 revision requires a mod to restore CSync on the circuit board.

4. The CSync restored -03 revision has the sharpest possible RGB output. We're talking pixels cut out of glass with the proper Framemeister settings.

If you're just in it for simple output solutions like S-Video, you might as well stick with -01 or -02, or even go with an earlier revision SNES. Just stay away from the APU revision as those have diagonal jail bar issues.

FYI, the SNES jr also uses the 1CHIP-03 revision hardware.

As for slowdown, I have both Star Fox and Yoshi's Island. I haven't done extensive side-by-side testing, but both games seem to play fine to me.

BazookaBen · Post by **BazookaBen** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:55 am

I played through Yoshi's Island entirely on my SNES Jr and don't remember any significant slowdown.

A side-side test would be good though. You could make a splitter for the SNES controller so you're playing both SNES' at the same time.

FBX · Post by **FBX** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:56 am

BazookaBen wrote:I played through Yoshi's Island entirely on my SNES Jr and don't remember any significant slowdown.

A side-side test would be good though. You could make a splitter for the SNES controller so you're playing both SNES' at the same time.

Or perhaps I can do a video capture of certain sequences in Star Fox, then put a timer on each video to see how much difference there is.

bobrocks95 · Post by **bobrocks95** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:15 am

I think Doom and Star Fox were reported as slower on the 1-Chip. With Star Fox it's probably difficult to compare since the game runs as slow as molasses anyway. Or maybe it's all just unfounded? It'd be nice to know.

BazookaBen · Post by **BazookaBen** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:17 am

FBX wrote: Or perhaps I can do a video capture of certain sequences in Star Fox, then put a timer on each video to see how much difference there is.

That could work IF Starfox actually has game speed tied to framerate. I don't think it is though.

I wonder what hardware Eurogamer's Digtal Foundry uses to calculate framerate from video capture.

Example here: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... n-face-off

eightbitminiboss · Post by **eightbitminiboss** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:08 am

Here's an example of the glitching on 1CHIPs on Demon's Crest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Lm0mhOhtzM

BazookaBen · Post by **BazookaBen** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:21 am

What am I supposed to be seeing there? I couldn't tell a difference.

austin532 · Post by **austin532** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:22 am

bobrocks95 wrote:I think Doom and Star Fox were reported as slower on the 1-Chip. With Star Fox it's probably difficult to compare since the game runs as slow as molasses anyway. Or maybe it's all just unfounded? It'd be nice to know.

If this is true it's no big deal with Doom as there are much better ways to play the game now

. I wonder if playing an overclocked Starfox on the 1-chip would bring it back up to it's original speed?

eightbitminiboss · Post by **eightbitminiboss** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:37 am

BazookaBen wrote:What am I supposed to be seeing there? I couldn't tell a difference.

First half is on a non-1CHIP, 2nd half is on a 1CHIP, glitches are at the top of the screen.

austin532 · Post by **austin532** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:38 am

BazookaBen wrote:What am I supposed to be seeing there? I couldn't tell a difference.

See the glitchy garbage at the top? It's very very minor and only appears at certain times. It's more noticeable when Firebrand is outside.

On another note the brighter whites with the 1-chip are also noticeable in that video. It's like someone turned up the Contrast. A small sacrifice to get a much sharper image I suppose.

BazookaBen · Post by **BazookaBen** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:54 am

eightbitminiboss wrote: First half is on a non-1CHIP, 2nd half is on a 1CHIP, glitches are at the top of the screen.

Man, I don't even know if I would call that a glitch. 8-bit and 16-bit games always have funky stuff on the edge of the screen, stuff that used to be covered up by overscan until LCD's came along.

eightbitminiboss · Post by **eightbitminiboss** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:00 am

BazookaBen wrote:
eightbitminiboss wrote: First half is on a non-1CHIP, 2nd half is on a 1CHIP, glitches are at the top of the screen.
Man, I don't even know if I would call that a glitch. 8-bit and 16-bit games always have funky stuff on the edge of the screen, stuff that used to be covered up by overscan until LCD's came along.

SNES doesn't normally show overscan to that degree though. This is consistent with a few games on 1CHIP systems specifically. The newer PPU's render data differently than older systems.

Edit: A better test, if you have a flash cart handy, load up Rudra No Hihou/Treasure of the Rudras. On a non-1CHIP SNES it looks fine, but on a 1CHIP SNES there is a glitch with the top part of the dialog box spreading to the left and right.

FBX · Post by **FBX** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:10 pm

BazookaBen wrote:
eightbitminiboss wrote: First half is on a non-1CHIP, 2nd half is on a 1CHIP, glitches are at the top of the screen.
Man, I don't even know if I would call that a glitch. 8-bit and 16-bit games always have funky stuff on the edge of the screen, stuff that used to be covered up by overscan until LCD's came along.

The problem is that video is worthless. If the person had bothered to record the VERY NEXT SEGMENT, it would have been blatant (i.e. happens constantly instead of having to wait to spot it). Boggles my mind why someone chose that segment instead to try and demonstrate the garbage in the top scanline...

StriderNo9 · Post by **StriderNo9** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:22 pm

BazookaBen wrote:Did you change your mind about going RGB>Component? RGB modding a SNES Jr. is really easy.

I realized my TV doesn't have component

just a couple composites and 2 S-Video ports.

eightbitminiboss · Post by **eightbitminiboss** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:46 pm

FBX wrote:
BazookaBen wrote:
eightbitminiboss wrote: First half is on a non-1CHIP, 2nd half is on a 1CHIP, glitches are at the top of the screen.
Man, I don't even know if I would call that a glitch. 8-bit and 16-bit games always have funky stuff on the edge of the screen, stuff that used to be covered up by overscan until LCD's came along.
The problem is that video is worthless. If the person had bothered to record the VERY NEXT SEGMENT, it would have been blatant (i.e. happens constantly instead of having to wait to spot it). Boggles my mind why someone chose that segment instead to try and demonstrate the garbage in the top scanline...

It's my recording and I was looking at the first examples of it. Plus I figured using the same segments would be fine since it had the screen shaking which showed some of it and addition of the fire sprites when it hits the ground. Sorry you wasted 3 minutes of your time I guess.

RGB32E · Post by **RGB32E** » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:43 pm

Another 1CHIP functional difference can be found on the Soul Blazer title intro. There's slowdown as "SoulBlazer" scrolls across the screen.

Josh128 · Post by **Josh128** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:32 am

Well, I just tested Starfox this afternoon-- first on my original, childhood 1992 SNES. I let the demo play through, observed the frame rate and sound cues (the game does not seem to be frame rate capped, but only reaches 20fps max anyway) and played through the first level.

Did the same with the SNES mini, and the demo, title screen, and first level looked absolutely identical. It got choppy in the same areas, and smooth ( if you call it that

) in the same areas. I could not tell a difference, whatsoever.

I actually played through the entire game on the mini, and nothing seemed out of place or out of the ordinary to what I remember on the later levels either. Though I havent played the game in probably more than 10 years or so, I managed to complete (the middle path, as I didnt remember where to get off) the game without losing a single Arwing-- in fact, I was pretty much on fire for some odd reason.

Though the games graphics are dated, its still a REALLY good game, thoroughly enjoyable, with great music. Perfect control, despite the choppiness. And even regarding the graphics, it looked just beautiful on my Trinitron Wega, despite the fact I was using composite! The blacks are outstanding on that little CRT, just incredible looking.

Anyways, after playing through Im even more convinced that the supposed framerate differences are either one of the following:

1.) Complete BS-- the guy claiming it may have forgotten just how choppy the game was at the time of its release.

or

2.) So miniscule they are undetectable to a very trained eye (that is mine, with regards to framerate), even one looking intently for any difference.

or

3.) If there are any differences, they certainly arent on the main (middle) path of levels from the intro to Andross himself.

Anyways, this is the best I can offer-- I snapped this screenshot of the end, I very much enjoyed the play through again, what a great game!!

austin532 · Post by **austin532** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:31 am

That's good to hear. So most likely no slowdown or if there is it's unnoticeable.

What about sound? Do the 1-chips sound worse then the originals? Besides the 1-chip 03 missing C-Sync and supposedly being the sharpest, what are the differences between the three 1-chip versions? Has anyone actually done a comparison between the three?

The reason I ask is because I already own a 1 chip-01 and if there are next to zero differences then there is no point in buying another one.

BazookaBen · Post by **BazookaBen** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:09 am

Thanks for reporting back Josh128.

FBX · Post by **FBX** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:01 am

austin532 wrote:That's good to hear. So most likely no slowdown or if there is it's unnoticeable.

What about sound? Do the 1-chips sound worse then the originals? Besides the 1-chip 03 missing C-Sync and supposedly being the sharpest, what are the differences between the three 1-chip versions? Has anyone actually done a comparison between the three?

The reason I ask is because I already own a 1 chip-01 and if there are next to zero differences then there is no point in buying another one.

The only differences I've read about when people compared them is the reduction in vertical stripe and overall RGB sharpness on the -03 line. It's not a big leap though, so you should be happy with the -01.

mvsfan · Post by **mvsfan** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:39 pm

Glad you bought that wega josh? they really do look great.

before i had my wega i was using an old sylvania tv from 1991 with s-video and composite only.

the two arent even from the same planet the wega was just that much better looking. I noticed it right away not only comparing s-video

(S-video on the wega looked way better) but when i went to component i also saw a jump in quality.

Ive been running that setup (wega with scart converter) for a few years now.

Josh128 · Post by **Josh128** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:22 pm

mvsfan wrote:Glad you bought that wega josh? they really do look great.

before i had my wega i was using an old sylvania tv from 1991 with s-video and composite only.

the two arent even from the same planet the wega was just that much better looking. I noticed it right away not only comparing s-video

(S-video on the wega looked way better) but when i went to component i also saw a jump in quality.

Ive been running that setup (wega with scart converter) for a few years now.

It really does have a great picture for 240p and 480i. The Starfox photo above was from using composite (!). I ran some Saturn Virtua Fighter 2 on it the other day via S-Video and it just looks really, really sharp. The contrast and blacks are out of this world, at least on par with my beloved plasmas, I'd say, and thats saying a lot.

The only knock on it is some slight geometry issues, but nothing that couldnt be perfected if I paid the local TV shop to fine tune convergence etc. for me. I think its beautiful as is-- but as you know in this hobby, the search for "perfection" can almost drive you nuts...

bobrocks95 · Post by **bobrocks95** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:49 pm

You have a local TV shop that would actually know how to work on a CRT? Are you a time traveler?

shmups.system11.org

SNES 1Chip-01 or 1Chip-02?

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