XRGB-mini Framemeister

[austin532]

Looking back on it, the fifth generation is tough to look at without feeling a bit disappointed. Sharp jaggy polygons, little to no anti aliasing, muddy to no textures, annoying diamond crosshatch filter, compression noise and artifacts in cutscenes. That whole generation does not greatly benefit from RGB like the third and forth gen do and S-Video might be the best way to go.

[pyrotek85]

Looking back on it, the fifth generation is tough to look at without feeling a bit disappointed. Sharp jaggy polygons, little to no anti aliasing, muddy to no textures, annoying diamond crosshatch filter, compression noise and artifacts in cutscenes. That whole generation does not greatly benefit from RGB like the third and forth gen do and S-Video might be the best way to go.

For some people yeah, making it a little more blurry might make it less offensive to our eyes. It always takes me a few minutes for me eyes to adjust to how that generation of games look, they always seem better looking in my head when I'm remembering them heh.

[Ed Oscuro]

I've only started to dislike jaggies for newer content where it's clear you're meant to see the games with some form of AA. With old games, usually the sharp definition between one area and another is more useful than an implementation of AA would have been, especially if you are playing an action game and need to distinguish between objects quickly. In fact, for HL engine games on the PC, I've taken to usually switching the filtering mode to LINEAR_MIPMAP_LINEAR (as an aside, the famous lambda symbol is used in deriving the final texture value in these filtering modes). Early AA implementations often just make things muddy, and newer implementations often still add unhappy artifacts. Also, many old games - particularly on 480i systems - still had enough detail that you had to get fairly close for the mystery to disappear. Newer games often have quite high resolution textures but don't really seem to utilize it that well; there's no pixel art to be found on the Xbox 360 but there was actually still a fair amount of carefully designed textures on the PS2.

In retro games my major boogeyman is noticeable mip-map switching (as above, disabling bi- or trilinear filtering can help with this), though this appears rather rarely, and usually in PC games which are often configurable.

Never really liked the FMV artifacts going back to PlayStation FMV, but they come with the territory

[austin532]

Looking back on it, the fifth generation is tough to look at without feeling a bit disappointed. Sharp jaggy polygons, little to no anti aliasing, muddy to no textures, annoying diamond crosshatch filter, compression noise and artifacts in cutscenes. That whole generation does not greatly benefit from RGB like the third and forth gen do and S-Video might be the best way to go.

For some people yeah, making it a little more blurry might make it less offensive to our eyes. It always takes me a few minutes for me eyes to adjust to how that generation of games look, they always seem better looking in my head when I'm remembering them heh.

Yeah, nostalgia goggles are annoying. I usually have to bump the H_Scaler way up to 14-15 when using RGB to make it easier on the eyes and have it resemble S-Video on a consumer grade CRT TV. H_Scaler 14 is usually fine but for games that use a large amount of crosshatching, 15 is a must as it helps eliminate it.

[kjoy045]

Thanks for the feedback guys!

Not quite sure which way I will go but being a bit of a picky video guy I will probably just order the amp board and do the mod.

Thanks again, Cheers!

[neorichieb1971]

Just so I'm clear.

The best way to display retro consoles through the framemeister is upscaling to 720p using a 1440p monitor that uses the IPS type models.

Or does anyone have any better setup solution?

[Fudoh]

1440p isn't an automatic guarantee that upscaled 720p content looks great. And if it does, it can still produce considerably sharpner (and thinner) scanlines than a 1080p display would show.

[Elrinth]

figured out what was wrong... it seems my rgbsplitter only outputs rgb into one of the split channels. and I had connected the framemeister into the non-rgb-split output. fail
now the question is, does there exist any device which outputs TWO rgb channels at the same time?

[Coryoon]

Still having issues with my Sigma AV5000 and the Framemeister.

Any other Framemeister owners use a supergun? If so, what brand?

I think I may try another supergun, but need to make sure that a new one will work before I try it!

[Fudoh]

A supergun doesn't generate any signal. It's just a breakout box for your Jamma RGB PCBs. In other words, it's highly unlikely that your supergun is to blame. It's either the PCB itself or it's the cable configuration which you're using from your Sigma to the FM.

[Coryoon]

I have tried a variety of PCBs - CPS2/3 and MVS1 Mobo.

I have a regular euroscart lead, and also two versions of the synch strike lead - one passive and one that daisy chains power from the power adapter.

I have fiddled with the synch level adjustment to improve the problem, but I still get a jumpy picture.

If anyone has gotten CPS2 etc to run flawlessly, I need to know what set up's you're using!

[RGB32E]

I thought someone else with a sigma had issues with arcade PCBs connected to the mini? IIRC, the sigma SGs contain a video encoder that can mess with the RGB output, or something that affects the sync line? You'd have to check to see where the RGBS lines go from the jamma harness to the output connector to see if there's anything suspect there. However, as Fudoh mentioned, it could be a cable issue as well.

Unless there's some big timing issue with a particular PCB, a direct connection of the sync line, and RGB through series resistors or pots should be all you need to get any standard PCB connected to the mini. CPS2 works flawless for me on my setup. Just ~220 ohm resistors on the RGB lines and a direct connection for CSYNC works great with no need to adjust sync level from it's default value.

[Coryoon]

Thanks for your response. Should I nod the strike cable or the normal one?

Also someone I know is selling a vogatek SG for avoid price, so I might try that

[kjoy045]

Hey Guys,

I am just wondering if someone can give me a brief explanation on how to load profiles through the microsd. I see FBX has his profiles in his signature I am just not sure how to extract that data from the bin files.

Do I just load that folder on a microSD and throw it in the mini? I have been looking at a few sites that list best settings per resolution but I think its probably best to have them by console instead of by resolution.

Thanks

[FBX]

Hey Guys,

I am just wondering if someone can give me a brief explanation on how to load profiles through the microsd. I see FBX has his profiles in his signature I am just not sure how to extract that data from the bin files.

Do I just load that folder on a microSD and throw it in the mini? I have been looking at a few sites that list best settings per resolution but I think its probably best to have them by console instead of by resolution.

Thanks

The bin files need to be placed in the XRGBmini -- > EEPData folder. After that, it may take two reboots of the Framemeister to recognize the files are there when you go to load them from the menu.

Also remember that these profiles are meant for 1080 HDMI output.

[kjoy045]

Thanks FBX for the info.

So how do I get the files into that folder exactly? Is this located on a microSD that goes in or can I move the files from there once inserted into the mini.

Also once these are stored where they need to be. Just to confirm I can choose to load these profiles right? They will not necessarily be loaded.

Thanks,

[FBX]

Thanks FBX for the info.

So how do I get the files into that folder exactly? Is this located on a microSD that goes in or can I move the files from there once inserted into the mini.

Also once these are stored where they need to be. Just to confirm I can choose to load these profiles right? They will not necessarily be loaded.

Thanks,

You'll need to have updated the firmware of the Framemeister to 2.00. So this only works if you have done that. If you have done that, the folder system will already be in place on the microSD card. You just use your computer to put my profiles in the proper folder on that card, then you stick the card back into the Framemeister to do the double reboot I mentioned before.

In other news, I finally ordered a NES RGB console. As soon as it arrives, I'll be making profiles for the NES to add to the package.

[leonk]

I'm sorry if this was answered before but it's 264 page thread!!

If I buy a new XRGB mini from Japan it should come with JP21 SCART cable (right?). Can I open the SCART end and resolver it to Euro SCART pin out or am I stuck buying a Euro SCART XRGB cable?

[mickcris]

I'm sorry if this was answered before but it's 264 page thread!!

If I buy a new XRGB mini from Japan it should come with JP21 SCART cable (right?). Can I open the SCART end and resolver it to Euro SCART pin out or am I stuck buying a Euro SCART XRGB cable?

yes it comes with JP21 and yes you can swap the wires around in the scart plug.

[leonk]

I'm sorry if this was answered before but it's 264 page thread!!

If I buy a new XRGB mini from Japan it should come with JP21 SCART cable (right?). Can I open the SCART end and resolver it to Euro SCART pin out or am I stuck buying a Euro SCART XRGB cable?

yes it comes with JP21 and yes you can swap the wires around in the scart plug.

Thanks!! Any advantage in buying the 3rd party euro SCART to mini cables or is it purely for people that don't know how to rewire?

[dkarDaGobert]

After that, it may take two reboots of the Framemeister to recognize the files are there when you go to load them from the menu.

no reboot required here, just inject card -> data -> load -> select

[Tomdominer]

Hey guys, total noob here.

I'm having real trouble getting a picture out of the framemeister. I got a picture initally, but after changing a few settings, because I was fiddling around like an idiot, I now get nothing at all. My HDMI set-up is unusual, so could be to blame, but I can see the standard blue picture and get a menu where I can adjust settings. I've tried both s-video, with a 3DO, and D5 input, using a gamecube and component cable. I can get sound, but haven't seen any picture since I originally plugged it in.

Any noob advice?

[FBX]

After that, it may take two reboots of the Framemeister to recognize the files are there when you go to load them from the menu.

no reboot required here, just inject card -> data -> load -> select

It depends on the status of the Framemeister. You can actively swap the card without having to reboot while it is turned on. If you turn it off and take the card out, it can take one or even two reboots.

[noonan2678]

FBX - thanks! Really appreciate you sharing the profiles.

I loaded them up fine and started with my SNES (RGB and also C-Sync). It loads 480p as the resolution...was that intended?
Are there settings other than Zoom that need to be adjusted prior to loading the profiles?

[amaradona]

I was wondering if somebody had a 1080p profile for the Neo Geo?
Maybe FBX you could guide me into it?

[Tomdominer]

Ok, managed to finally get a video signal out of the box! Took ages, but upgraded the firmware and then things started working.

I've managed to get a nice component signal out of Gamecube, but when trying the s-video signal from the 3DO I only get a black and white picture? The weird thing is, I got a colour picture when I first plugged things in, but now only get this black and white image.

Does pal s-video not properly work on the framemeister, or is there some colour output setting I can change to make things less monochrome?

[FBX]

FBX - thanks! Really appreciate you sharing the profiles.

I loaded them up fine and started with my SNES (RGB and also C-Sync). It loads 480p as the resolution...was that intended?
Are there settings other than Zoom that need to be adjusted prior to loading the profiles?

This sounds like another issue with the beta firmware not actually saving everything in the profiles. You'll need to make sure you're set to 1080p_60 via HDMI. Also of course Zoom has to be turned on.

[noonan2678]

Ok, managed to finally get a video signal out of the box! Took ages, but upgraded the firmware and then things started working.

I've managed to get a nice component signal out of Gamecube, but when trying the s-video signal from the 3DO I only get a black and white picture? The weird thing is, I got a colour picture when I first plugged things in, but now only get this black and white image.

Does pal s-video not properly work on the framemeister, or is there some colour output setting I can change to make things less monochrome?

You need to make sure you're selecting chroma (I'm not in front of it, but fairly certain this term is used rather than s-video) as the signal input rather than RGB if using the input that supports both. From the monitor itself (again, not in front of it) light up the control menu then press the input button until it switches the input signal.

[mickcris]

I'm sorry if this was answered before but it's 264 page thread!!

If I buy a new XRGB mini from Japan it should come with JP21 SCART cable (right?). Can I open the SCART end and resolver it to Euro SCART pin out or am I stuck buying a Euro SCART XRGB cable?

yes it comes with JP21 and yes you can swap the wires around in the scart plug.

Thanks!! Any advantage in buying the 3rd party euro SCART to mini cables or is it purely for people that don't know how to rewire?

some have a sync stripper in them, but the passive one there is no advantage other than its easier than doing it yourself.

[Tomdominer]

Ok, managed to finally get a video signal out of the box! Took ages, but upgraded the firmware and then things started working.

I've managed to get a nice component signal out of Gamecube, but when trying the s-video signal from the 3DO I only get a black and white picture? The weird thing is, I got a colour picture when I first plugged things in, but now only get this black and white image.

Does pal s-video not properly work on the framemeister, or is there some colour output setting I can change to make things less monochrome?

You need to make sure you're selecting chroma (I'm not in front of it, but fairly certain this term is used rather than s-video) as the signal input rather than RGB if using the input that supports both. From the monitor itself (again, not in front of it) light up the control menu then press the input button until it switches the input signal.

Hey noonan, do you think you could be a little more specific?

I've had a look through the options and the only colour change seems to be under "HDMI_SET" where you can change the "OUTPUT_COLOR" between RGB and auto and both make no difference to the colour. I did read earlier on in this mega-thread that the unit won't produce colour from pal s-video input, but that was from 2013 I think, and I think the firmware has patched in pal support but I may be wrong.

EDIT: Here is the firmware 2.0 menu diagram http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/XRGB-mini_Ver200_OSD_E.pdf. Might help jog your memory.