XRGB-mini Framemeister

[austin532]

Does anyone know what happened to the v-line setting in update 2.00? I updated from 1.08 and v-line seems to have disappeared...

Playing SNES via RGB, would prefer to turn scanlines on but all settings other than v-line look bad.

Happy to downgrade to a previous firmware version, but thought I'd ask for some expert help before I do that.

V-LINE is now called SCANLINE and has been moved to the SPECIAL category. EVEN Scanlines have been changed to INT_LINE and ODD are now called DEC_LINE 1 and DEC_LINE 2. (I think)

Don't forget you can also quickly turn on/off scanlines using the C button.

[darcagn]

WOOHOO! It's been a while since I've logged on here, and I'm ecstatic to see that firmware 2.00 finally came out for the Framemeister. I didn't think they would ever release it.

That having been said, I'm finding the scanlines+zoom behavior frustrating. I'm on 720p output (I have a 720p TV). If you set ZOOM to ON and ZOOM_SIZE to 100 (no zoom), and then turn scanlines on, they appear fine, with INT_LINE being adjustable and DEC_LINE stuff grayed out. You can then adjust the ZOOM_SIZE to your liking for your particular console. But if you then turn scanlines off and on again, they appear terrible looking, and then INT_LINE becomes grayed out and DEC_LINE becomes available to adjust, until you set ZOOM_SIZE to 100, then you get INT_LINE back and DEC_LINE is grayed out once more.

This basically means that I can't just use the C button on the remote to turn scanlines on. I have to set ZOOM_SIZE to 100, then turn scanlines on, then ZOOM_SIZE back to my desired zoom setting, in order for the scanlines to look right.

[FBX]

I have to set ZOOM_SIZE to 100, then turn scanlines on, then ZOOM_SIZE back to my desired zoom setting, in order for the scanlines to look right.

Has to do with how the scanlines are stored in memory. If you adjust ZOOM_SIZE before applying them, it won't know what they 'should' look like. I was noticing this funky behavior myself the other day. This is just another ones of those 'beta' issues, like how profiles don't actually remember all the settings (e.g. whether or not ZOOM is turned on).

[bonzo.bits]

V-LINE is now called SCANLINE and has been moved to the SPECIAL category. EVEN Scanlines have been changed to INT_LINE and ODD are now called DEC_LINE 1 and DEC_LINE 2. (I think)

Don't forget you can also quickly turn on/off scanlines using the C button.[/quote]

Thanks for the info and explanation re DEC_LINE 1 and 2. Have found the scanlines option now and very happy with how they look.

I encountered an issue yesterday with some odd behaviour on Super Mario World.

SNES (PAL) to XRGB via Euro SCART.
HDMI Output 576p50.
Scanlines ON.
No other adjustment to visual set, etc (not that I remember anway...it was pretty late at night.)
Playing on a Panasonic VT60.

On the Butter Bridge stage, right at the start just before the push-scrolling forces Mario to jump from the first ledge, the picture 'went weird'. The colour lost most of it's vibrancy and there were sections of lines (maybe 80-100 lines, all the way from left to right of screen) that just looked fuzzy. Kind of like when playing through an RF cable and there is interference from other electronics, or broken wires inside the cable.... It's hard to describe the effect and I tried to take with my phone didn't show the problem effectively, otherwise I'd post it.

I've tried to reproduce the issue today, but it's no longer occurring (thankfully). However it's going to bug me until I find out so wondering if anyone has any ideas? My best guess would be that it's somehow caused by the output from the SNES. Maybe it's old and faulty or due for a clean?

I was able to reproduce the same screen weirdness on Super Mario Kart on the ice stage of the Star Cup. The common element between the two games/stages was that there was a lot of white on the screen (about 80% of the screen was filled by clouds in the background of the stage on SMW).

Anyone with similar experience?

[eightbitminiboss]

FBX, why LOAD_SELECT rather than LOAD?

[darcagn]

On the Butter Bridge stage, right at the start just before the push-scrolling forces Mario to jump from the first ledge, the picture 'went weird'. The colour lost most of it's vibrancy and there were sections of lines (maybe 80-100 lines, all the way from left to right of screen) that just looked fuzzy. Kind of like when playing through an RF cable and there is interference from other electronics, or broken wires inside the cable.... It's hard to describe the effect and I tried to take with my phone didn't show the problem effectively, otherwise I'd post it.

I've tried to reproduce the issue today, but it's no longer occurring (thankfully). However it's going to bug me until I find out so wondering if anyone has any ideas? My best guess would be that it's somehow caused by the output from the SNES. Maybe it's old and faulty or due for a clean?

I was able to reproduce the same screen weirdness on Super Mario Kart on the ice stage of the Star Cup. The common element between the two games/stages was that there was a lot of white on the screen (about 80% of the screen was filled by clouds in the background of the stage on SMW).

Anyone with similar experience?

Yes. On prior firmwares, I have encountered this issue on Butter Bridge just like you have, I think it has something to do with the majority of the screen being white and perhaps the Framemeister mistaking it for interference/noise? Adjusting the A/D level fixed it, I believe.

[bonzo.bits]

Yes. On prior firmwares, I have encountered this issue on Butter Bridge just like you have, I think it has something to do with the majority of the screen being white and perhaps the Framemeister mistaking it for interference/noise? Adjusting the A/D level fixed it, I believe.

Thanks for verifying, I'll start experimenting with the A/D setting. Noob question time; what is A/D? Some sort of analogue/digital conversion to take the old signal to more recent standards..?

The Butter Bridge fuzz reared it's head again yesterday after extended play (3-4 hours). I removed the HDMI plug from the main display and plugged it into the test display. The result was fuzz free BB stage. I played for 5 mins then reconnected to the main display and.... the fuzz was gone. Conclusion: I still have fuzz sometimes.

Fingers crossed the A/D adjustments work

[FBX]

FBX, why LOAD_SELECT rather than LOAD?

I believe because it only assigns the profile to a specified input port. I haven't really taken the time to find out the difference, but I had figured that's what it is.

[12345]

More info regarding the mini's color settings, this time the RGB-in:
1. It's better to set GAMMA to 0 and adjust BRIGHTNESS instead.
2. The A/D setting not only changes gamma but also color temperature so be careful with altering it too much. During my tests I found that it's rather lowering than rising what this setting needs.
3. The RED/GREEN/BLUE values don't change at the same, linear scale. E.g.: Setting all three of them to 49 changes the color balance and not just brightness/black level (as one would expect) when compared to the default value.
4. At ideal settings, total luminance/light output is lower than on D-terminal, thus resulting in a dimmer picture, even when set to RGB full. This might be an individual input-thing though, so let's not take it for granted unless affirmated.

[austin532]

So it's best to adjust Brightness for both RGB and D Terminal and leave Gamma at 0? Also when adjusting Brightness I feel like setting it to where the overscan boarders blend in with the TV can cause some Black Crush on some games even though it looks less annoying. Here are some examples I quickly made up in Paint of what it would look like on a TV since I have no way of taking a direct capture. (Note I am far from being a professional photo editor)


Correct Brightness with slightly visible boarders?



Black Crush with no visible boarders.



So is the first pic the correct way or is it possible to eliminate the boarders without causing black crush?

[12345]

@austin532
It depends on your input I guess, but I'm not sure. On mine, both boarders and 100% black have the same black level, therefore removing the visible boarders was also a a reference for me. Do you get the same issue when setting GAMMA to a higher level, also on another source?
1. Make sure your TV is set accordingly and can handle the signal.
2. Use the following preset:

Spoiler

Output Mode: HDMI (NOT DVI)
HDMI Output: 1080_60p
Image Mode: Picture (Movie if on 480i/576i mode)
Deepcolor: OFF
Output_Color: AUTO
Output_Range: Full
Manual A/D: ON

3. Always set BRIGHTNESS together with A/D, primarily looking for black level and then adjusting everything else. Remember that A/D will hardly change black level and mostly affect gamma and color temperature. In case you're not happy you could always rise BLACK in the end, but so far I didn't need it.
4. Double check with other inputs or at least another game.

[Fudoh]

So is the first pic the correct way or is it possible to eliminate the boarders without causing black crush?

technically you don't really get any black crush. There's in no ingame color that's darker than the surrounding borders. You set the borders to black, so the darkest colors used ingame get set to "0" as well. Most TVs simply have a hard time to properly differentiate the lowest IRE levels, so - if you feel you got visibile black crush - just raise the gamma a bit.

[psychosync]

Hi there

I'm looking for an upscaler for my retro consoles (obviously) and it looks like xrgb's the best thing around for that but i have one concern before i decide to buy or not.

Sorry if my question is posted in the wrong place btw.

My main display is a NEC NP400, which is a projector and it accepts 15kHz like many projectors. So right now all my consoles are connected with RGB Scart cables bought from Retro_console_accessories off eBay and into Scart switches (Hama 3:1). Then directly into my projector's VGA/RGB input. The image quality is nice, not perfect but way better than composite and s-video. But the projector seems to poorly scale things. It's native resolution is 1024x768, it can accept up to 1080i but that is also poorly downscaled.

So my question is: Can the Framemeister upscale to 1024x768 instead of an HD res?

If it can't, is there any good upscaler that can? I really want to play on a projector, for me that's the best display i can get, i mean how can you have a 84" screen otherwise.

Thanks

[12345]

if you feel you got visibile black crush - just raise the gamma a bit.

If you talk about TV settings I'd rather try to get greyscale right, which will result in better gamma in the first place. Most gamma settings do more harm than good if adjusted without changing everthing else all over again. I'd only use internal gamma settings if it's not possible at all to get an acceptable gamma curve without rising/lowering it.

[austin532]

@austin532
It depends on your input I guess, but I'm not sure. On mine, both boarders and 100% black have the same black level, therefore removing the visible boarders was also a a reference for me. Do you get the same issue when setting GAMMA to a higher level, also on another source?
1. Make sure your TV is set accordingly and can handle the signal.
2. Use the following preset:

Spoiler

Output Mode: HDMI (NOT DVI)
HDMI Output: 1080_60p
Image Mode: Picture (Movie if on 480i/576i mode)
Deepcolor: OFF
Output_Color: AUTO
Output_Range: Full
Manual A/D: ON

3. Always set BRIGHTNESS together with A/D, primarily looking for black level and then adjusting everything else. Remember that A/D will hardly change black level and mostly affect gamma and color temperature. In case you're not happy you could always rise BLACK in the end, but so far I didn't need it.
4. Double check with other inputs or at least another game.

The boarders are most noticeable with Component in Movie mode which I've noticed tends to brighten the picture a little due to the noise filter it uses. That would explain the brighter boarders. I do have the Mini set to output RGB because my TV is set to Full Range due to the bug when a game transitions from 240p to 480i.

[MMJuno]

So my question is: Can the Framemeister upscale to 1024x768 instead of an HD res?

If you choose DVI mode instead of HDMI mode, you can select from various PC resolutions (including 1024x768).

[12345]

@austin532
Try setting it to auto instead and see if it changes anything. Setting DVI instead of HDMI and RGB instead of AUTO results in different black levels, probably adjustable, but I found my preset to be better to handle.
And hopefully you do know that component settings differ very much from the RGB-in so make sure to adjust each individually.

[austin532]

Yes, it's not perfect but it does seem to help a little. I'm probably just going to stick with RGB with PS2 for now since 480p is less than ideal on the Mini. Instead I will use the Gamecube with D Terminal since it's now known that 480p does look slightly better with that system due to the strong flicker filter on games. XBOX will just be hooked up to the TV as it upscales nicely.

[Chocograph]

Boy is there a difference on the new pal snes 1chip-01 that I got from ebay. Sharp as can be. Very little difference compared to the first version on a CRT though. On the Meister it's a pretty big difference. Very cool indeed.

[dkarDaGobert]

hi,
what framemeister settings are recommend for a rgb modded pal n64.
i've tried a lot different settings for the scanlines but none of em are entirely satisfactory

[Elrinth]

suddenly out of the blue, my framemeister stop taking split rgb signals...
I can get rgbnes to show if i connect it directly...
if I connect my rgb-splitter it will just show a black image and no audio. the split signal works in my sony trinitron no matter which out port I choose.
I even tried with a different rgb-splitter, same result.

sync mode off has worked for me for all systems until now... when it just suddenly stop showing any image.

my framemeister is running 1.10 and pcb is 1.2. is there a new version available?!

Anyone have any clue what might be wrong?! Did something inside my framemeister break so it will no longer accept split rgb signal?
proof rgb split signal worked before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlAD9rdqKlc

Edit: I tried updating to 2.0 and still no changes...

[FBX]

Anyone have any clue what might be wrong?! Did something inside my framemeister break so it will no longer accept split rgb signal?
proof rgb split signal worked before: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlAD9rdqKlc

Perhaps try a factory reset on the Framemeister? It's worth a try (option for it can be found in the menu).

[Elrinth]

the recent change I ever did was add n64 to my splitters. Then I added a/v cables into output... if I leave the a/v cables in the splitter, the framemeister will not show any image at all
it's maybe I did some minor damage inside my framemeister which no longer allows rgb split signal!?

ok trying a factory reset now. Edit: I can't find where to do factory reset.. I only find reset... It didn't help any, it just resets the settings, it doesn't go back to first firmware etc...

Here is the device I am using to split the rgb: http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/ ... D/$_57.JPG
I actually have a backup of the same device and I tried with that one aswell, no difference.

I guess I need to buy a new framemeister
damni,t when I had just setup all video games nicely and tidy in my living room.

[12345]

Have you tried changing the sync level?

@FBX
Any news or new findings on the 480p horizontal scaling bug?

[Elrinth]

Have you tried changing the sync level?

@FBX
Any news or new findings on the 480p horizontal scaling bug?

yes, either it's black image with audio or (sync level >= 28) there's no signal at all and I need to reset the framemeister from an other mode than rgb.

I'm telling you guys, this just suddenly out of the blue stopped working.

[FBX]

@FBX
Any news or new findings on the 480p horizontal scaling bug?

Well my iscan pro tests 'suggest' the Framemeister is to blame, but the only way to know for 100% sure is to get two Framemiesters and hook one into the other, checking to see if the horizontal blurring occurs when upscaling a 480i image to 480p and inputting that into the 2nd Framemeister. However, my profiles for 480i/p use artificial anti-aliasing parameters anyway, making the issue there a moot point.

[austin532]

FBX, how goes the latest profile settings? I believe you said you were going to work on PS1 and N64 RGB?

[FBX]

FBX, how goes the latest profile settings? I believe you said you were going to work on PS1 and N64 RGB?

Medical emergency happened. I thought I was having a heart attack while watching a movie, so I went to the hospital. After some tests, it was determined to be likely a hernia causing the symptoms. I've been pretty well stuck in bed the past few days, but at least now I can walk around.

Also still waiting to get a hold of an RGB sync-on-luma cable for the PS1.

[austin532]

Oh man......I did not know about that. Please take care of yourself and get well soon. We would all hate to hear something had happened to you. I've had concerns about my health over the years and have since changed my eating habits. I know I don't have to tell you that the American diet is horrible and is responsible for too many unnecessary deaths.

Anyways, I to am looking for another PS1 RGB sync on luma cable. retro_console_accessories used to sell them but she seems to have stopped. Anyone know why? Were they expensive to make. No demand for them? Really hope she makes more.

[pyrotek85]

FBX, how goes the latest profile settings? I believe you said you were going to work on PS1 and N64 RGB?

Medical emergency happened. I thought I was having a heart attack while watching a movie, so I went to the hospital. After some tests, it was determined to be likely a hernia causing the symptoms. I've been pretty well stuck in bed the past few days, but at least now I can walk around.

Also still waiting to get a hold of an RGB sync-on-luma cable for the PS1.

Oh damn, I hope you feel better soon.