XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Smashbro29]

You can easily tell if a signal is pure csync by hooking it to a TV's composite input, which should result to synced solid black (or white) picture.

I'm confused, isn't csync determined by the cable? If so, it's an RGB SCART cable how do I do that? If not, then wouldn't it be determined by the device?

I think you also need to add a buffer IC if you tap c-sync from the video IC, as it may not have enough drive strength for 75ohm load. What I did with my PS1 was lifting and grounding the subcarrier pin of CXA1645, which effectively turns composite video output to luma. No special cables or extra wiring is required with that approach, but you lose cvbs output (if that matters).

What's cvbs output? Also I'm no expert on this stuff. I hardly understand what I linked, I just thought it would be a good thing to share.

[NightSprinter]

It generally stands for "Composite Video, Blanking, and Sync". Simplified, it is literally ALL the needed signals for video rolled into one and sent out one wire.

[Kazziki]

Really cool seeing finished profiles FBX!
Will you ever do some for PAL systems?
Or is it just simply a matter of loading up the NTSC ones, and doing some small tinkering for PAL systems?

[Grimakis]

What? You could always change the intensity of the scanlines to make the screen darker. They added features to make them less uniform and more realistic of a CRT.

Yes, BUT. The option that makes them "thicker" blends the surrounding lines into the black line by darkening them. Thus, when I set up scanlines to look "authentic" the whole screen looks too dark overall.

Regards,
George

[Fudoh]

It generally stands for "Composite Video, Blanking, and Sync".

or more widely known as composite video bull shit

[FBX]

Really cool seeing finished profiles FBX!
Will you ever do some for PAL systems?
Or is it just simply a matter of loading up the NTSC ones, and doing some small tinkering for PAL systems?

Thanks! Unfortunately I have no experience on PAL consoles. It may be entirely different zoom settings for those.

[FBX]

You can easily tell if a signal is pure csync by hooking it to a TV's composite input, which should result to synced solid black (or white) picture.

I'm confused, isn't csync determined by the cable? If so, it's an RGB SCART cable how do I do that? If not, then wouldn't it be determined by the device?

When it comes to RGB SCART and not being tech-savvy, you really have to make sure the company you by them from has specifically wired the cable to use CSync. I remember when I first started ordering SCART cables, I didn't know what I was doing and ended up getting a bunch of composite video wired SCART cables. I thought to myself "Is this the shit that's supposed to knock my socks off about how much better SCART is?? This sucks!". I threw the cables away and gave up in disgust. Then some years later I kept seeing people's screenshots with amazingly pure image quality, and I knew there had to be more to it. So I started reading articles, watching videos, and studying diagrams. The next time around, I knew who to order from (retro_console_accessories on ebay) and exactly what I wanted. I just asked them to make sure the cables were wired for csync and I was good to go for my NTSC consoles.

[Kazziki]

Thanks! Unfortunately I have no experience on PAL consoles. It may be entirely different zoom settings for those.

Maybe someone will come along and tweak the profiles if needed. I guess ill just have to play around and post pictures to compare
Then again, is there really a big difference in the output? (Using RGB Scart). Sure we got the whole 50hz/60hz thing, But that's a speed issue?
I guess more specifically i was thinking about the Megadrive/genesis and Snes.

[micro]

I'm sure that this will go down in the FW 2.0 madness, but...

Now this is interesting: 59.94 Hz & 50 Hz output rates are only achieved in 480i & 576i games (Tekken 3, Dead or Alive, Rapid Racer, etc). Games running in 240p & 288p cause output rates that are quite a bit off...

Very interesting, I wonder could you design something in the DFO firmware to compensate for this, without adversely effecting the console?

I am still waiting for the first batch of DFO to come in, sadly it doesn't look like I'll be able to provide a fitting service at least not initially.

I think it would be possible if you could detect if the picture is 240p or 480i. But to me it's not worth the effort. I'm happy if my modded consoles just behave like genuine NTSC and PAL consoles.

Btw, it seems to be the same with the Sega Saturn: 59.83 Hz for 240p and 59.94 Hz for 480i.


I'm not a video pro, but can this be caused by different line counts in 240p and 480i? (262.5 lines/field in 480i; 263 lines/frame in 240p => 59.94 Hz * 262.5/263 = 59.826 Hz. But I really don't know, it's just a wild guess. ^^)

Hey guys, it's me again, the guy from page 240.

Remember, I've made an oscillator with two different selectable frequencies and installed it into a PAL Megadrive 2 (PSX and NeoGeo MVS too) to resolve some issues with the Framemeister.

In case one of you guys wants to rebuild this oscillator, I've finally finished the firmware and Windows GUI for the programming device. Everything can be found on: http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5744.0

Over and out!

Hi micro, I saw your circuit on NFG, but never got around to ask you if it can be adjusted to work for Neo Geo AES and NGCD as well? I'd also like to see your install on a MVS, as I have a 4-slot I'd like to perform this mod to myself

Any idea if a proper 60Hz modified AES with a MVS converter, will make the scaling glitches that occur when using a converter, worse or possibly better? I've always wondered if the difference in timing between the two systems were the reason for these ugly scaling glitches...? If that's true, then perhaps a similar mod is needed inside the converter?

The DFO should work in the AES and NGCD, too. But it probably won't fix any glitches with the MVS converter. I will post pictures of the MVS installation soon.

[BuckoA51]

I have the DFOs in now just waiting on a cable so I can program the programmer

I would really love to get the Saturn running at 59.94 as for some reason the old DVDO/XRGB3 has 3 times as much input lag for signals that are that far off spec.

[Grimakis]

Just for reference. Smart 2x and scanlines. Thin and Weird vs Realistic but too dark.

[Jademalo]

Oooh, new firmware! I'll have to give it a good old test. (How did I miss this for a week?)

Does anyone know if the terrible colour issue for RGB has been sorted yet, or am I going to have to use YUV still?

EDIT: Hmm, google translating the patch notes says this under fixes; "I was fixed color conversion table for each resolution of the DVI output."
I wonder what that was?

[Shuco13]

@Grimakis
Would you mind sharing your scanline settings? I can't manage to achieve the look of the second picture you posted. Thanks!

@Jademalo
It hasn't been fixed. As far as I can tell setting the output to colorspace=AUTO and RGB FULL gives the best results. Setting colorspace to RGB still gives you oversaturated greens and the RGB limited setting is broken as of now.

Edit: BTW, are there any definitive recommandations for the SYNC_TIME setting already?

[FBX]

.

Edit: BTW, are there any definitive recommandations for the SYNC_TIME setting already?

Yes, DON'T use anything other than 3. The normal useful function of having it on 100 is so that you can swap games on the same console without having to wait several seconds for the handshake. Unfortunately it's causing glitches in the forced sync function such that your Framemeister will randomly get stuck in frame-skip mode. After I experimented with it all day, I found the only way to fix the glitch was to set the time back to 3 and this restored normal function of forced sync.

[Smashbro29]

It generally stands for "Composite Video, Blanking, and Sync".

or more widely known as composite video bull shit

That seems accurate.

I really would never mind losing this.

When it comes to RGB SCART and not being tech-savvy, you really have to make sure the company you by them from has specifically wired the cable to use CSync. I remember when I first started ordering SCART cables, I didn't know what I was doing and ended up getting a bunch of composite video wired SCART cables. I thought to myself "Is this the shit that's supposed to knock my socks off about how much better SCART is?? This sucks!". I threw the cables away and gave up in disgust. Then some years later I kept seeing people's screenshots with amazingly pure image quality, and I knew there had to be more to it. So I started reading articles, watching videos, and studying diagrams. The next time around, I knew who to order from (retro_console_accessories on ebay) and exactly what I wanted. I just asked them to make sure the cables were wired for csync and I was good to go for my NTSC consoles.

I ordered all of my cables from retro_console_accessories though I never specifically asked for csync.

[Grimakis]

It all comes down to knowing which consoles can output CSync.

Most SNES can output Composite and CSynx. So its up to the person wiring the cable to choose the right wiring.

[Smashbro29]

It all comes down to knowing which consoles can output CSync.

Most SNES can output Composite and CSynx. So its up to the person wiring the cable to choose the right wiring.

Does retro accessories typically choose the right wiring?

[eightbitminiboss]

It all comes down to knowing which consoles can output CSync.

Most SNES can output Composite and CSynx. So its up to the person wiring the cable to choose the right wiring.

Does retro accessories typically choose the right wiring?

She usually labels what cables use what. If it uses CSync, it'll be in the description of the auction. I got one from her a while ago and it's a solid cable.

[Grimakis]

It all comes down to knowing which consoles can output CSync.

Most SNES can output Composite and CSynx. So its up to the person wiring the cable to choose the right wiring.

Does retro accessories typically choose the right wiring?

She usually labels what cables use what. If it uses CSync, it'll be in the description of the auction. I got one from her a while ago and it's a solid cable.

Agreed. You need to read the listings throughly. I've seen SNES cables from her listed using CSYNC as well as cables that use Luminance for Sync. She definitely knows what she's doing. Its just a matter of knowing what you want/need and reading the listings carefully.

[Smashbro29]

My issue is I bought them years ago.

[mickcris]

My issue is I bought them years ago.

you can test for continuity on the cable to see what yours is. Check between pin 20 on scart end and pins 3 and 9 on snes end. pin 9 on snes is composite video and pin 3 is c-sync.

[Smashbro29]

My issue is I bought them years ago.

you can test for continuity on the cable to see what yours is. Check between pin 20 on scart end and pins 3 and 9 on snes end. pin 9 on snes is composite video and pin 3 is c-sync.

I hate admitting it constantly but I'm really not sure what you mean. I have a Saturn, a Genesis 1 (that I use a model 2 cable for by way of this: http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/sega ... sound.html) a SNES and an N64. What exactly do I look at on the plugs to determine if they are c-sync? Do I need to open to them? If so, how?

Any diagrams or pictures anything you might have to make this easy to understand I'd really appreciate.

[mickcris]

My issue is I bought them years ago.

you can test for continuity on the cable to see what yours is. Check between pin 20 on scart end and pins 3 and 9 on snes end. pin 9 on snes is composite video and pin 3 is c-sync.

I hate admitting it constantly but I'm really not sure what you mean. I have a Saturn, a Genesis 1 (that I use a model 2 cable for by way of this: http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/sega ... sound.html) a SNES and an N64. What exactly do I look at on the plugs to determine if they are c-sync? Do I need to open to them? If so, how?

Any diagrams or pictures anything you might have to make this easy to understand I'd really appreciate.

need to use a multimeter. set it on ohms or continuity. 0 ohms between pin 20 on the scart cable (sync) and pin 3 on snes side (c-sync) then it would be a c-sync cable.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... t.htm#snes

the pic of the snes side is the console, not the plug so you will have to compensate for that. other consoles pinouts can be found easily.

[Smashbro29]

need to use a multimeter. set it on ohms or continuity. 0 ohms between pin 20 on the scart cable (sync) and pin 3 on snes side (c-sync) then it would be a c-sync cable.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... t.htm#snes

the pic of the snes side is the console, not the plug so you will have to compensate for that. other consoles pinouts can be found easily.

So I just set the multimeter, touch it to these specific pins and if the readings match what you told me I'm golden?

[mickcris]

need to use a multimeter. set it on ohms or continuity. 0 ohms between pin 20 on the scart cable (sync) and pin 3 on snes side (c-sync) then it would be a c-sync cable.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... t.htm#snes

the pic of the snes side is the console, not the plug so you will have to compensate for that. other consoles pinouts can be found easily.

So I just set the multimeter, touch it to these specific pins and if the readings match what you told me I'm golden?

Yeah. Just check both pins on the snes side (3 and 9) to pin 20 on the scart side.

[Grimakis]

need to use a multimeter. set it on ohms or continuity. 0 ohms between pin 20 on the scart cable (sync) and pin 3 on snes side (c-sync) then it would be a c-sync cable.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... t.htm#snes

the pic of the snes side is the console, not the plug so you will have to compensate for that. other consoles pinouts can be found easily.

So I just set the multimeter, touch it to these specific pins and if the readings match what you told me I'm golden?

Yep. Just think about it for a second. All you want to test is what the sync pin is connected to. By checking the different pins on the SNES side of the cable against pin 20 on the SCART side, you will find which one is connected to pin 20.

[Shining]

Just checking, do you guys also get like 'rough' edges on pixels? I've tried to adjust the SKEW setting but that just seem to move the roughness to another side of the pixel. Here's an example:

Spoiler

[FBX]

Just checking, do you guys also get like 'rough' edges on pixels? I've tried to adjust the SKEW setting but that just seem to move the roughness to another side of the pixel.

It's due to the aspect correction. The only way to possibly get perfect clarity on the horizontal axis would be to start adjusting ZOOM_WIDTH (or H_WIDTH in the VISUAL_SET menu) until you dial in a perfect horizontal ratio. Unfortunately, that's going to cost you 4:3 aspect correction doing that.

On another note, I've updated my Pixel Purist and General Framemeister Notes pages to reflect the new firmware updated features:

http://www.firebrandx.com/pixelpurist.html

Also updated the profiles to all have skew set to zero (meant to correct that a couple days ago but forgot).

[Chocograph]

I should be receiving my FM tomorrow. I opened up my PAL snes because I wanted to know the version. It's a 1CHIP-02 92 model. I don't know anything about the differences but I'm checking around now. I should be good right?

http://console5.com/wiki/SNES#SNSP-CPU-02 I believe it was this one

[FBX]

It's a 1CHIP-02 92 model.

You sure about that date? I thought 1CHIP revisions didn't start until somewhere around 94-95.