XRGB-mini Framemeister

[austin532]

FBX, I'm curious as to what you mean by flicker? Do you mean the mini's A/D noise? I feel by setting Black level to 4 for SNES you tend to lose some minor detail, especially games with dark backgrounds like Super Ghouls 'N Ghosts and Super Castlevania IV. Setting Brightness at 26 makes the image blend in perfectly with my TV where as on 27 it's still slightly visible when the game screen goes black. Do you still recommend keeping it at 27?

Also just a heads up, it seems you left Skew at the default of 16 for your SNES profiles.

How soon can we expect PS1/PS2 profiles.

[GenesisBits]

Pretty excited to hook mine up when I get it. I have a 720p TV, pal modded 60hz snes, official french RGB modded n64, xenoGC and ps2 and 3. The only thing I'm worried about is if I get the kind of microstuttering from my pal consoles. How easy is it to upgrade the firmware?

I love my french RGB modded N64. Well worth the money I spent for it complete.

At first I wasn't sure exactly how much better it was but then I did a side by side comparison video with composite and XRGB-Mini composite. RGB looks so much better.

Being in Ireland, S-Video is almost non-existent so we were stuck with crappy composite on the console.

[Smashbro29]

Unfortunately not. In order to scale from 240p to 1080p it means that some pixels will be taller than others. This results in uneven scanlines.

That's rough. Seems like that would be the ultimate goal of the thing. Maximize space, 1080p and scanlines without any cropping. 5X is good though. Does it do the same thing on SNES?

Exactly, and it also causes artifacts in vertical scrolling. The only way to have the image fit the screen and have everything be uniform would be some sort of bilinear interpolation, but you lose a lot of the sharpness of the picture.

Alright we'll lose 4 pixels in exchange for all that but what's up with the capture?

[kjoy045]

Hello,

I am relatively new to the xrgb scene. After shelling out the cash to pick up one of these bad boys I am looking for advise on what cables to use in order to set it up properly with minimal issues (Pumping out another 100+ dollars just want to be sure I get the right cables). CSYNC is what throws me off throughout the whole thing with pure and amp cables and then strippers I'm not really sure how to go. This is what I have currently for hardware;

XRGB Mini (With the standard JP21 to RGB Adapter) - Would prefer to use EuroSCART RGB if possible.

NTSC Sega gen 2 model with Sega CD Add-on
NTSC Sega Saturn
NTSC Nintendo 64 (probably going to mod with the retrorgb.com amp for rgb through multi-out)
NTSC SNES
NTSC Gamecube (Have US Nintendo branded Component Cables)
NTSC Playstation

Thanks in advance for any and all advice

Cheers,

[Grimakis]

As far as 240p in 1080p goes, you're asking the impossible. In order to accurately represent perfect pixels, you need to either crop the image or leave letterboxing. If you don't care about scanlines, then you might as well strech the image vertically, it still looks pretty nice. Its really only the scanlines that make the issue noticeable.

For games with borders on the top and bottom, using the 5x scaling works out well. I haven't tried any special SNES profiles but Id assume you would have the same problems.

Regards,
George

[Grimakis]

Hello,

I am relatively new to the xrgb scene. After shelling out the cash to pick up one of these bad boys I am looking for advise on what cables to use in order to set it up properly with minimal issues (Pumping out another 100+ dollars just want to be sure I get the right cables). CSYNC is what throws me off throughout the whole thing with pure and amp cables and then strippers I'm not really sure how to go. This is what I have currently for hardware;

XRGB Mini (With the standard JP21 to RGB Adapter) - Would prefer to use EuroSCART RGB if possible.

NTSC Sega gen 2 model with Sega CD Add-on
NTSC Sega Saturn
NTSC Nintendo 64 (probably going to mod with the retrorgb.com amp for rgb through multi-out)
NTSC SNES
NTSC Gamecube (Have US Nintendo branded Component Cables)
NTSC Playstation

Thanks in advance for any and all advice

Cheers,

So, just to make some clarifications for you(I was in your position a month ago)

CSYNC is generally the best sync for use with the Framemeister. Its called Composite Sync, and its a signal that contains both the horizontal and vertical sync signals.

People also tend to call it Raw Sync, or Clean Sync, or Pure Sync.

Boosted Sync is generally just a capacitor inline with the CSYNC signal to increase its strength. I've heard its a good idea for Sega 32x and maybe the Sega CD? I got a "boosted sync" cable for my Genesis 2 from retro console accessories on eBay and its great.

The last thing that you can use is Composite Video as sync. I hear that Frameister can work with this signal, but I haven't tried it. I think this is what you would get from a PS1 SCART cable.

VGA has separate H/V sync but thats another story.

Regards,
George

[austin532]

Hello,

I am relatively new to the xrgb scene. After shelling out the cash to pick up one of these bad boys I am looking for advise on what cables to use in order to set it up properly with minimal issues (Pumping out another 100+ dollars just want to be sure I get the right cables). CSYNC is what throws me off throughout the whole thing with pure and amp cables and then strippers I'm not really sure how to go. This is what I have currently for hardware;

XRGB Mini (With the standard JP21 to RGB Adapter) - Would prefer to use EuroSCART RGB if possible.

NTSC Sega gen 2 model with Sega CD Add-on
NTSC Sega Saturn
NTSC Nintendo 64 (probably going to mod with the retrorgb.com amp for rgb through multi-out)
NTSC SNES
NTSC Gamecube (Have US Nintendo branded Component Cables)
NTSC Playstation

Thanks in advance for any and all advice

Cheers,

I also recommend getting your cables from retro_console_accessories. They work great and are equal to or if not better than the official brands. I also recommend you get the Scart adapter and use that instead of JP 21.

I don't have a Genesis, Saturn, or N64 hooked up so I can't give you any advice on those but for SNES I recommend the RGB with CSYNC cable. I assume you have a model 1 SNES and if you do hopefully it's a 1chip model which gives out a much sharper image. The SNES mini needs to be modded to output RGB.

The US Gamecube's do not output RGB so Component is the best you are going to get without modding.

For PS1 I recommend getting the RGB Sync on Luma cable as it eliminates the checkerboard look on games. Although at the moment it seems like she is no longer making them or needs more supplies. Maybe someone on the forums has an extra?

[FBX]

Hello,

I am relatively new to the xrgb scene. After shelling out the cash to pick up one of these bad boys I am looking for advise on what cables to use in order to set it up properly with minimal issues (Pumping out another 100+ dollars just want to be sure I get the right cables). CSYNC is what throws me off throughout the whole thing with pure and amp cables and then strippers I'm not really sure how to go. This is what I have currently for hardware;

XRGB Mini (With the standard JP21 to RGB Adapter) - Would prefer to use EuroSCART RGB if possible.

NTSC Sega gen 2 model with Sega CD Add-on
NTSC Sega Saturn
NTSC Nintendo 64 (probably going to mod with the retrorgb.com amp for rgb through multi-out)
NTSC SNES
NTSC Gamecube (Have US Nintendo branded Component Cables)
NTSC Playstation

Thanks in advance for any and all advice

Cheers,

I personally went with JP-21 so I didn't have to buy an extra adapter. It's a matter of taste, but I didn't see any need to go the SCART route. As others have mentioned, get your cables from retro_console_accessories on ebay. All of mine are the upgraded JP-21 cables they make, and I've been very happy with them. Also for a nice video explaining all the sync terms and what they do, check out this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAlrdCBjUAQ

[FBX]

Alright we'll lose 4 pixels in exchange for all that but what's up with the capture?

As I said before, the capture device clearly can't handle overscanned video. You need to use 4x, or if you don't mind misshapen pixels, use whatever default settings you like.

FBX, I'm curious as to what you mean by flicker? Do you mean the mini's A/D noise? I feel by setting Black level to 4 for SNES you tend to lose some minor detail, especially games with dark backgrounds like Super Ghouls 'N Ghosts and Super Castlevania IV. Setting Brightness at 26 makes the image blend in perfectly with my TV where as on 27 it's still slightly visible when the game screen goes black. Do you still recommend keeping it at 27?

Also just a heads up, it seems you left Skew at the default of 16 for your SNES profiles.

How soon can we expect PS1/PS2 profiles.

I'll need to go back and check on those black levels, but I found it was necessary on the Genesis to get rid of the vast majority of the Framemeister's noise issue. Same thing with the brightness, where I just adjusted the TV's own brightness down a bit to compensate. It may be that for the SNES this isn't required and so I'll look into it, but the Genesis it really was bad at default settings.


Edit: SNES profiles have been re-calibrated to 25-19-0 for the color as it appears the SNES was very sensitive to black level changes. The new color settings are default except for Gamma being 19, which gave overall best results on minimizing noise in Mega Man X and Zelda.

http://www.firebrandx.com/downloads/fra ... ofiles.zip

[Smashbro29]

Alright we'll lose 4 pixels in exchange for all that but what's up with the capture?

As I said before, the capture device clearly can't handle overscanned video. You need to use 4x, or if you don't mind misshapen pixels, use whatever default settings you like.

But in the video I tried 4x to the same result.

[FBX]

Alright we'll lose 4 pixels in exchange for all that but what's up with the capture?

As I said before, the capture device clearly can't handle overscanned video. You need to use 4x, or if you don't mind misshapen pixels, use whatever default settings you like.

But in the video I tried 4x to the same result.

Well that is strange then. See if "SMART_2X" mode has the same issue. If it records clean, see if the 4xscale will after you change the ZOOM_H_POS and ZOOM_V_POS to a value of 50.

[FBX]

So I discovered an unfortunate bug in the new "SYNC_TIME" feature:

If set to 10 or 100 and you load a new profile during gameplay, the SYNC_MODE: AUTO will no longer work and your game will have frame skips. The only way I found to fix this is to set the SYNC_TIME back down to 3 and then turn the console off, then wait for the SYNC to wipe after a few seconds, and then turn the console back on. Everything else I tried failed to fix the issue, including a complete reboot of the Framemeister.

So sadly loading a profile during gameplay isn't a good idea unless you first turn SYNC_TIME back down to 3.

Edit: Further experiments revealed this behavior can even crop up simply from turning off the console and turning it back on a minute or two later. So it seems "10" and "100" are just glitchy to begin with. I'd recommend leaving the setting at "3". I know it sucks because 100 was useful for game-swapping, but not at the cost of stable sync timing.

[kjoy045]

Hello,

I am relatively new to the xrgb scene. After shelling out the cash to pick up one of these bad boys I am looking for advise on what cables to use in order to set it up properly with minimal issues (Pumping out another 100+ dollars just want to be sure I get the right cables). CSYNC is what throws me off throughout the whole thing with pure and amp cables and then strippers I'm not really sure how to go. This is what I have currently for hardware;

XRGB Mini (With the standard JP21 to RGB Adapter) - Would prefer to use EuroSCART RGB if possible.

NTSC Sega gen 2 model with Sega CD Add-on
NTSC Sega Saturn
NTSC Nintendo 64 (probably going to mod with the retrorgb.com amp for rgb through multi-out)
NTSC SNES
NTSC Gamecube (Have US Nintendo branded Component Cables)
NTSC Playstation

Thanks in advance for any and all advice

Cheers,

I also recommend getting your cables from retro_console_accessories. They work great and are equal to or if not better than the official brands. I also recommend you get the Scart adapter and use that instead of JP 21.

I don't have a Genesis, Saturn, or N64 hooked up so I can't give you any advice on those but for SNES I recommend the RGB with CSYNC cable. I assume you have a model 1 SNES and if you do hopefully it's a 1chip model which gives out a much sharper image. The SNES mini needs to be modded to output RGB.

The US Gamecube's do not output RGB so Component is the best you are going to get without modding.

For PS1 I recommend getting the RGB Sync on Luma cable as it eliminates the checkerboard look on games. Although at the moment it seems like she is no longer making them or needs more supplies. Maybe someone on the forums has an extra?

Thanks for the info guys this sounds great! The nintendo branded gamecube component cables actually have a chip in them that will convert to RGB so I will be using those with the component to D-Terminal adapter with the xrgb-mini.

The final question I have is in regards to getting the EUROScart adapter there are two listed on retrogamingcables.com and I am not sure which one as once again Sync is throwing me off. If I want CSync then I should just get the regular adapter right not the one that is listed as a SYNC Stripper in it. These can be found here;

http://www.retrogamingcables.com/micomsoft-xrgb.html

Just let me know which one of these to go with and I am definitely going with that buyer off Ebay seems to be the consensus on the net for retro cabling.

Thanks again guys

[FBX]

Just let me know which one of these to go with and I am definitely going with that buyer off Ebay seems to be the consensus on the net for retro cabling.

Strippers are for European consoles that use the composite video for syncing the picture. Your consoles are NTSC, so you won't need any stripping. Also make sure you don't confuse that site with retro_console_accessories on ebay. The one on ebay was what we were all directing you to buy from, and they offer their own SCART converter.

[Retropoet]

I personally went with JP-21 so I didn't have to buy an extra adapter. It's a matter of taste, but I didn't see any need to go the SCART route. As others have mentioned, get your cables from retro_console_accessories on ebay. All of mine are the upgraded JP-21 cables they make, and I've been very happy with them. Also for a nice video explaining all the sync terms and what they do, check out this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAlrdCBjUAQ[/quote]

I am new to the xrgb mini, and would like to know which is the best tv calibration technique. I've seen the AVS forum free ISO calibration disc. Is this any good, or should I buy a another one.

Also, there does not seem to be JP21 cables for the SNES on the retro_console_accessories page.
However they do have JP 21 csync cables for the SNES from the British retro gaming cables. Are these of the same quality as the ones from eBay?

Note: I have both euros scart adapter (without sync stripper) and the included Jp 21 adapter that came with the framemeister. So I can go down any road for the cables. I only have an SNES on rgb. No plans for any other console on rgb

[FBX]

Also, there does not seem to be JP21 cables for the SNES on the retro_console_accessories page.

Edit: Actually if you go here and scroll down, You'll see JP-21 options (and of course you can also specify what you want when placing the order):

http://stores.ebay.com/retroaccessories/

[BuckoA51]

I personally went with JP-21 so I didn't have to buy an extra adapter. It's a matter of taste, but I didn't see any need to go the SCART route.

One little adapter now to save a whole lot of headaches later on doesn't seem a bad trade off to me. It's not even as if you're reducing the total cabling in your setup since you have to have some kind of adapter anyway. What if you ever want to use a SCART TV or monitor, or a console that doesn't have JP21 cables easily available for it? (Jaguar, Amiga etc), or a transcoder that has SCART input, or a different scaler etc and so on.

Anyway, looks like a ton of changes, I'll flash my mini tonight (fnar), anyone care to help update the wiki?

[FBX]

I personally went with JP-21 so I didn't have to buy an extra adapter. It's a matter of taste, but I didn't see any need to go the SCART route.

One little adapter now to save a whole lot of headaches later on doesn't seem a bad trade off to me. It's not even as if you're reducing the total cabling in your setup since you have to have some kind of adapter anyway. What if you ever want to use a SCART TV or monitor, or a console that doesn't have JP21 cables easily available for it?

I could just as easily get a JP-21 to SCART adapter down the road if I ever felt the need. Or even simpler, I could just buy a SCART cable if I can't come up with a JP-21 version for any future consoles. Not that this would ever be the case, because retro_console_accessories has made custom cables on commission in the past. I could simply have them make me a specific cable, like if I wanted a sync-on-luma RGB JP-21 cable for the PS1 for example.

It's not like I'm 'bound' by me decision just because I have JP-21 on my current consoles. If at any point I 'have' to get a SCART cable, well then I would buy the adapter. But again, I don't see that happening with the way the online cabling businesses work. They pretty much all have JP-21 options on request.

[BuckoA51]

How are you guys getting scanlines working with FBX's Genesis profiles? At 1080p they're super thin again, at 720p all I get is a complete mess.

Edit - Same story with the SNES profiles and scanlines. too thin at 1080p, absolute mess at 720p, they don't work until I turn Zoom off completely.

Colour me confused

[austin532]

I am new to the xrgb mini, and would like to know which is the best tv calibration technique. I've seen the AVS forum free ISO calibration disc. Is this any good, or should I buy a another one.

The "Best" calibration technique is to get your tv calibrated by a professional but it will end up costing you between $200 - $300. I went the Spears & Munsil route and I am happy with the results. The only problem being is that for the majority of the test patterns, you need some type of meter. The 2nd edition also comes with a SD calibration disc which helped bring some life back into my dying CRT. I have not tried the AVS method but I imagine it's just as good.

[kjoy045]

Just let me know which one of these to go with and I am definitely going with that buyer off Ebay seems to be the consensus on the net for retro cabling.

Strippers are for European consoles that use the composite video for syncing the picture. Your consoles are NTSC, so you won't need any stripping. Also make sure you don't confuse that site with retro_console_accessories on ebay. The one on ebay was what we were all directing you to buy from, and they offer their own SCART converter.

So just to confirm all I need is the passive adapter like the one listed here;

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Micomsoft-XRGB-M ... 2ede0fb820

This is the seller I am going to get all my cabling from thanks again guys been an awesome help. Anyone have a link so I can check the chip on my SNES to see if it is a Chip 1??

[austin532]

If your serial # starts with 3 it's most likely a 1chip but the only way to know for sure is to open the system.

You will need a 4.5mm security bit to open it.

[keropi]

So just to confirm all I need is the passive adapter like the one listed here;

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Micomsoft-XRGB-M ... 2ede0fb820

[...]

yes, that's the adapter you need to connect EU scart cables to the mini... I just re-wired the stock JP one, it's not hard to do if you can solder - you just need to compare pinouts.

[Smashbro29]

I'm getting serious about converting all of my component to RGB.

According to video game perfection (no idea if its credible) this is the gold standard.
http://www.curtpalme.com/RTC2200.shtm

[BuckoA51]

Strippers are for European consoles that use the composite video for syncing the picture.

US consoles use composite video for sync too. My multi-chip SNES and my N64 are both NTSC/JPN and need sync stripping to work with the mini.

According to video game perfection (no idea if its credible) this is the gold standard.

No idea either, never tested one

[JaFoJoWa]

I'm not sure if this is the same power supply that Grimakis has but my FM arrived on Tuesday from Solaris and this is what it came with. I hope this helps someone as much as this thread has done for me!

http://i.imgur.com/2raW9mQ.jpg

[Grimakis]

Yeah, the PS1 uses Composite Video as Sync over RGB. However I hear the Framemeister should be able to handle that now.

[TheShadowRunner]

The Mini handles composite video totally fine as sync for every console except some megadrives and saturns. A sync stripper is unnecessary and in certain cases has been reported to have adverse effects.
Luma as sync helps for PS1/PS2 as it does remove the checkerboard effect as Austin pointed out.
For Snes (fat, 1CHIP, non-1CHIP), composite video is working just fine, 0 difference with csync.

[Smashbro29]

The Mini handles composite video totally fine as sync for every console except some megadrives and saturns. A sync stripper is unnecessary and in certain cases has been reported to have adverse effects.
Luma as sync helps for PS1/PS2 as it does remove the checkerboard effect as Austin pointed out.
For Snes (fat, 1CHIP, non-1CHIP), composite video is working just fine, 0 difference with csync.

I think it's a sync stripper in mini din converter that prevents me from using my Genesis without a 32x.

I can't unscrew the thing and I'm afraid to ply it open.

[FBX]

Strippers are for European consoles that use the composite video for syncing the picture.

US consoles use composite video for sync too. My multi-chip SNES and my N64 are both NTSC/JPN and need sync stripping to work with the mini.

The ONLY NTSC SNES units that don't have Csync ready to use are the 1CHIP-03 (which can be modded back on) and the Junior (same deal). ALL other NTSC Snes consoles have Csync, and it does make a difference.

See the My Life in Gaming video on demystifying sync on youtube, where they show the difference in quality over sync-on-composite.