Getting started with the genre

[Rush_shirt]

Hi all,

I apologize if someone else has started such a "Newbie" thread before. I couldn't find anything (recent, at least), so here goes:

I'd like to explore the shoot 'em up genre, but I don't really know where to start. There are a lot of options to go with (emulation, remakes, newer titles) and I'm not sure how to best approach this.

Like most gamers, I've played a fair amount of shoot 'em ups. Raiden as a kid, Space Invaders on my calculator, some random ROMs I tried out in my teens. However, I never really invested a lot of interest in the genre. I'm looking to dive a bit deeper, understand the mechanics of what makes a great game in the genre, and hopefully find some games that I just want to keep coming back to. I feel like a lot of games today have great presentation for a first playthrough, but don't really have the mechanics for lots of repeated plays. I'm hoping to find some good shoot 'em ups that I can really sink my teeth into.

So, with that said, does anyone recommend how I should proceed with exploring the genre? Any particular games to start out with? Or perhaps a trajectory you'd recommend so that I don't get discouraged or "burned out," so to speak?

Other than a PC, I have an Android phone, a PS4, a WiiU, and a 3DS.

Thanks and let me know if you require additional info to make your recommendations. This seems like a great community!

[Lilium]

Look into Shmupmame 4.2 (or any version should really suffice) and go trying out stuff.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53159 this thread is the results for a Top 25 games vote here. While I personally think that some of these don't belong on a top 25 and are rather just popular because of who made them (Saidaioujou and Mushihimesama for instance) it's nevertheless this forums favorites.

Since you don't have an Xbox 360 but do have a PC and didn't express any irrational desire not to use said PC for games then I'd recommend you looking into the library of cool doujin-STGs for it. There's the Touhou series among others that I can personally recommend for being very kind towards beginners as they all feature 4 difficulty modes ranging from beginner friendly to difficult while never really being too punishing in terms of forgivingness unless you play them seriously.

What I would recommend is looking up videos of Dodonpachi Daioujou Black Label, Gunbird 2, Perfect Cherry Blossom, Ketsui, hell just about anything on that Top 25 list and try out the stuff that looks the most interesting to you. This isn't a genre where you have to start out with a specific set of games, you just have to identify the ones that look like the right game for you.

I started out with a Touhou game as it seemed less beginner hostile than the Cave game videos I found on Youtube. I played those only for a while as I was growing up and learning skillsets, then branched out to other things. You can go about this however you want and never be afraid to ask questions about things.

Oh and one more thing. Don't think its cheating to look at replays for games you're having trouble with. Good players usually learn by watching those better than themselves first. Its not a play once never again puzzle game. Its a genre about developing your skills through practice and performing your best and any means to achieve that is justice. Savestate practice, replay copying or doing it your own way, whatever goes man. Oh and ask for help on things if you can't figure it out. That isn't done enough around here.

EDIT: Oh and good luck btw!

[Cagar]

Yeah- I'd also recommend the games listed on the Top 25. Just start trying different games out, and don't hesitate to play something because of uninteresting theme/setting; that hardly matters gameplay-wise in shmups.

[Xyga]

I wouldn't recommend Shmupmame as it's nothing special and kind of outdated today.
Any standard build will do, check MAMEUI or MAME Plus.

Some of the top 25 games are relatively kind to beginners, like Mushihimesama Futari, ESPgaluda and Deathsmiles.

In the Honorable Mention part you'll find many gems as well, like R-Type Delta, Giga Wing and Thunder Force IV.

[endoKarb]

There's a piece of advice that is often given to beginners in the game of Go. Something of the effect of: "Lose your first 100 games as fast as possible".

I'd say that's a good mindset with which to approach anything new.
Don't get bogged down in details, just pick some game that looks cool (can't choose? play gunbird 2 ) and play it from start to finish a few dozen times.

That should tell you if shmups are for you or not.

Have a blast.

[Xyga]

Psikyo games are brutal though, I wouldn't recommend any to beginners unless you want them to experience genuine despair right from the start.

[Shepardus]

The top 25 list is a good place to start. If you don't want to set up an emulator such as MAME (though it's not hard, and if you really get into shmups you're probably going to do so eventually), there are also a number of great PC shmups.

Freeware, there's Cho Ren Sha 68k, Blue Wish Resurrection Plus, Hydorah, Warning Forever (original website seems to be down but you can google for a download), and various games by Kenta Cho (I personally recommend rRootage, Tumiki Fighters, and parsec47).

Non-freeware, there's Crimzon Clover: World Ignition, Kamui, Ikaruga, and Revolver360 Re:Actor, all of which are available on Steam (Crimzon Clover's available on GOG as well). There's also the many games in the Touhou series.

If all that overwhelms you, I would recommend starting out with Cho Ren Sha 68k or Blue Wish Resurrection Plus, maybe Warning Forever or rRootage if you like boss rushes. If you're willing to drop some money I highly recommend Crimzon Clover and Kamui (Ikaruga is a somewhat polarizing game, and I haven't played Revolver360 much yet). The Touhou games are great too, there are varying opinions as to which one's best to start with but Touhou 7 and 8 are perhaps most commonly recommended to beginners.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Or perhaps a trajectory you'd recommend so that I don't get discouraged or "burned out," so to speak?

Don't credit-feed.

There are a lot of options to go with (emulation, remakes, newer titles) and I'm not sure how to best approach this.

Shmupmame renders most games a bit wrong-looking, but more playable.

[Squire Grooktook]

I will extremely second Shepardus's mention of Cho Ren Sha 68k. My favorite shmup, and a game that's extremely easy to pick up and play, as well as offering quite a bit of depth and replay value. Above all else I love the extremely fast pace, rythmic action, and constant movement.

Other suggestions:

Gradius III (SUPER NES VERSION ONLY): Generally considered too easy by more advanced players, but has fun and diverse stages, tons of weapons to choose from, great graphics/music/presentation, etc. very good starting place if you don't mind something a little on the easy side.

Dodonpachi and Dodonpachi Dai-Ou-Jou: The latter is hard as heck, but both games represent the best of bullet hell style patterns and level design. A great place to go to get a real feeling for that sub-genre.

Crimzon Clover: World Ignition: Absolutely ground breaking love letter to bullet hell. Polished for an absurdly long time. Has an absolute wealth of game modes, select-able difficulties, etc. It's on Steam for cheap, highly recommended.

Darius Gaiden and G-Darius: On the complete opposite side of the spectrum from bullet hell, these games priortize creative gimmicks and tricky enemy ai over bullet density. They also give a real sense of adventure and a lot of replay value with their mammoth number of selectable stages (you choose your route through the game based on a fork in the road after every stage, and each stage has a different boss), and super atmospheric music and presentation.

Ikaruga: Don't listen to anyone who tells you this game is over-rated. Its planning oriented "puzzle shooter" approach might not be to everyone's taste, but learning to wrap your head around the clever gimmicks in stages and boss fights is an absolute blast. As such, it's also a great game to get accustomed to using your head instead of relying on reflexes all the time (ultimately you'll want a combination of both for most shmups) and the slow step by step process of mastery also tends to get people hooked to the finer elements of the game like its scoring system.

Or perhaps a trajectory you'd recommend so that I don't get discouraged or "burned out," so to speak?

Don't credit-feed..

Absolutely. If you don't know this already, it's not considered a "true" clear of the game if you continue. This is because the score counter (which represents progress and mastery) is reset to zero on death. Some games go so far as to lock off the real ending or true final boss if you continue, but even for games that don't, continuing is generally thought of as a practice method and not a bona fide victory.

[Despatche]

dodonpachi DAI-OU-JOU

[JWS]

Psikyo games are brutal though, I wouldn't recommend any to beginners unless you want them to experience genuine despair right from the start.

Ha ha I'll second that. As a beginner myself, and a Psikyo fan, I'd say they are deceptively difficult. Lots of shotgun spreads. Dont make my mistake of buying a collection of Psikyo games then beating yourself up for not being able to clear them!

PLAY ANYTHING AND PLAY WHAT YOU LIKE.

Also play how you like. People will say don't credit feed. But I started playing with that mindset in 2007 and it just put me off practicing. Now its 2015 and I still don't have a respectable clear.
Just enjoy what you like and have fun. As long as you understand the philosophy against credit feeding throwing a few credits here and there is not going to ruin you. Save full runs for when you know the game like the back of your hand.

Also go to a local shmupmeet and meet some enthusiasts. Its fantastic, better than playing in my opinion. There are some really nice, cool people out there, and you will learn fast from them.

[nasty_wolverine]

and they say we are elitist who bring down the newbie. just look at this thread and see how helpful we are.

[LordHypnos]

Well, beginners tend to get into the genre in different ways. Some people find one game (usually something hard) that they just really like and want to master, while others prefer to start with easy games that make the genre seem more manageable, and gradually move to more difficult things over time. I would just add that you don't get skills by playing easy games, and in that sense the "fail 100 times as quickly as possible" philosophy is very sound. Who knows if you really want to get skilled though? It's certainly not the only way to enjoy the genre. Also, if you lose your motivation due to games being too hard, you're still not going to get any skills. You will have to find some kind of balance that works for you, difficulty-wise.

Already have been a few good recommendations in the thread. I'd definitely say in a general sense looking up gameplay footage of various popular games is a good call. Find something that looks cool, then try it out in MAME. Maybe also try a variety of different styles of STG, if you can (we need a list that classifies all shmups into a few different categories of gameplay style). Make sure you're looking at both the Honorable Mentions and Top 25! Maybe even just the Top 100 or so. It's mostly just taste that seperates them out once you get to that point, I think. As an example, Cho Ren Sha 68k fell off the honorable mentions this year in spite of being an excellent game.

As far as freeware PC stuff goes, I have to vehemently plug rRootage. It is a pretty simple danmaku boss-rush game, but instead of having to complete a 15-25 minute loop / full game (or more like 30-50 minutes when it comes to doujins), you get nice 5 minute (give or take) boss battles. There are something like 40 of them, divided into 10 stages (or difficulty levels depending on how you look at it). Each has an A, B, C, and R boss (You play them seperately). The R bosses have randomly generated patterns, which I think is where the most replay value lies. Difficulty ranges from insultingly easy (which might actually be nice for a beginner), to pretty dang hard (at least in my opinion. I can't make it past the level 7 bosses, although I've seen people who don't find any of the main mode bosses to be hard). There're also 4 different modes based on influential arcade shmups from 1999-2002, I think. There's the normal mode--I guess that's not really based on anything specific, but has bombs, which are the most common way to escape danger in shmups--The Ika mode--which has polarity switching, but unlike Ikaruga, absorbing bullets sends them back at the boss--GW mode--where you get a reflect shield that works basically like the shield in Giga Wing. Unlike in normal, and (IIRC) Ika modes, your speed doesn't reduce when firing--and finally Psy mode--Your secondary button makes you "roll," which helps you graze bullets, which is what scoring is based on, at least partly. Also grazing fills a meter which will give you temporary invincibility when filled all the way. This might sound weird, but it's based on the Psyvariar series. IIRC you don't automatically slow down when shooting, but rolling slows you down in Psy mode.

Each mode has 40 bosses of its own (including the 10 R bosses). I think Normal is probably the best, but they're all pretty good. My next favorite is probably GW mode.

TL;DR-- I think rRootage is a really good free game for beginners, go download it

Most of the other recommendations are solid though. Personally my favorite commercial doujin is probably Samidare (a reflect 'em up). but it's not quite as easy to come by as something like Kamui or CC:WI (which is only sort of a doujin since it's an arcade game in japan). You'd have to pay around $30, and import the physical disc from japan (or pirate it, I guess). There is a demo, though. Note that I'm not any kind of an expert in doujin games, really.

Also, one last thing: 3DS has a pretty lackluster shmup library, but there are a few decent ones. You've got Recca, and the NES versions of Gradius and Life Force in the Virtual console. Not having played Gradius, I'd say that while Recca and Life Force are very fun, they are also super flawed, and frustrating IMO. Metal Torrent is less frustrating, and pretty fun, though it's not that great of a game, and very score attack focused, which might not be your thing. Also the Accipeteur mode is way too easy. Batteleur is much cooler. I think Fantasy Zone is out now, which is a pretty sweet defender influenced game, but is definitely not as sweet as Fantasy Zone II DX, which is coming out in a month or two, so definitely get that once it drops! You can try it out in MAME though, if you're not sure whether you'll like it. Same with OG Fantasy Zone.

Sorry, as always, for the huge post

[HydrogLox]

Also, one last thing: 3DS has a pretty lackluster shmup library, but there are a few decent ones.

As mentioned:

• Summer Carnival '92 RECCA
• Life Force
• Gradius
• 3D Fantasy Zone
• Metal Torrent

Of potential interest:

• 3D Classics: Xevious
• 3D Classics: TwinBee
• Chain Blaster
• Liberation Maiden
• Steel Empire
• Nano Assault EX
• Kokuga

[Rush_shirt]

Wow, I am beyond impressed with the positive and helpful responses. You guys are already proving yourself to me (not that it really matters what one n00b thinks) to be a great community!

It sounds like MAME would be the best entry point. It had been a while since I had used it and I was having some issues with getting my (wired) Xbox 360 controller to work with it. Any tips in that regard?

Also, while we're on the subject, are there any good USB controllers I should be looking into should I went to "step up my game" further?

I figure once I can get the controller situation figured out, I'll start out with some old classics that have caught my eye (Gradius, R-Type, maybe even some Galaga). I'll also try out some of the freeware offerings. If I find I like one of the classics a lot, I'll look into other games in the series/ports for my available consoles.

Let me also take this post to discuss my goals further: I realize that I'm not getting to get amazingly good at any one shoot'em up, but I'd like to get proficient enough to be able to hop into any game in the genre and perform at least at a nominal level.

My interests lie more in exploring the genre than beating any scores or doing any really impossible 1 credit runs (although the idea of pulling one off for easier games does sound fun).

I started doing Let's Plays late last year and I've slowly been getting more consistent with that. I find recording footage and then editing it into an enjoyable presentation with commentary to be really fun. One of the first games I chose was a shoot 'em up called Cosmic Rocket Defender. It was an indie title that wasn't getting any coverage (from what I could tell), so I decided to make a video of it. If you're interested, the 3 episodes are here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... ricTNYYo73

It was fun to do some research about the game's influences and incorporate that into the commentary (although I'm sure you guys would have more for me to add or corrections to my research). Ideally, I'd like to start exploring some obscure and undercovered indie shmups and make informative videos of them. By informative, I mean getting into the mechanics and other relevant background info, not so much recording a "perfect run." Sort of similar to what Contendo does. Maybe I could even develop a niche channel in the community...

Anyway, thanks again for your help and I look forward to your feedback.

[Tregard]

I started out in the genre by trying a few credits on a few big titles in MAME and casually deciding that I'd try and 1CC Mars Matrix as my first challenge. Ah, naievety. MAME is a great place to try out a lot of titles and get a feel for the style that you like, but don't expect to be beating these games right off the bat.

Battle Bakraid is a nice place to start. It's accessible, has a stripped down easy route for beginners, and is quite gorgeous.

[nasty_wolverine]

whatever controller you use, use the dpad. using the analogue stick is asking for trouble. so find a controller with a solid dpad. Alternatively, save up or build yourself a arcade stick. you can use keyboard if you are comfortable. YMMV.

also, BWR+ is a good game and easy enough 1CC. if you want something more classic try Batsugun sp or Batrider normal. But beware, once you catch the 1cc bug you cant stop. its the same thing that makes the genre great. its figuratively climbing mountains, you start with small hills first and slowly graduate to the big ones.

[pegboy]

I'd honestly give Gradius V a try, it's the game that got me back into playing shmups and actually playing them for more than just "screwing around".
While it's a challenging game, they removed a lot of the painful BS that was in previous games in the series (for instance there are no checkpoints on death). In my opinion it's the perfect mix of classic shump play combined with some of the newer bullet hell style. It's an excellent game, a true "treasure"

[Obscura]

Batrider normal.

This. Batrider Training/Normal is the best "beginner" shmup I know of (Advanced is a whole different story though, heh).