The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.

[Obscura]

Yeah, but the most important part in his "route" (the second bee grab + first silo) is literally annotated as "this part is random, just improvise".

I mean, shit, that should be enough to erode anyone's confidence right there.

[Emuser]

Yeah, but the most important part in his "route" (the second bee grab + first silo) is literally annotated as "this part is random, just improvise".

I mean, shit, that should be enough to erode anyone's confidence right there.

No dude, I literally said that there is improvision due to randomness, that randomness mainly being where a 2nd revenge laser will spawn. I purposely didn't clarify so that I could see your reaction to how "random" it can be. Everything else can be consistent other than the revenge lasers. And yes, I can do this consistently.

EDIT: And yes, the H in the high score spot is consistent. There isn't much room for error but it can be done reliably.

[Obscura]

Yeah, and I'm sure you also have a 140 IQ and an 8 inch penis like everyone else on the internet, right?

http://www.twitch.tv/pbacque/b/621984431

Your route does not work consistently, and you are full of shit if you say otherwise.

It works sometimes, and you simply uploaded the time you got lucky.

Icarus, since you were wondering, THIS is why I discard so much of what I read on the internet -- because most of it is by people who have 140 IQs and 8 inch penises... on the internet.

[Squire Grooktook]

Hey, hey, let's keep this civil. He made and edited a very detailed video with annotations and everything, least you can do is not insult him

[Emuser]

Yeah, and I'm sure you also have a 140 IQ and an 8 inch penis like everyone else on the internet, right?

http://www.twitch.tv/pbacque/b/621984431

Your route does not work consistently, and you are full of shit if you say otherwise.

It works sometimes, and you simply uploaded the time you got lucky.

Icarus, since you were wondering, THIS is why I discard so much of what I read on the internet -- because most of it is by people who have 140 IQs and 8 inch penises... on the internet.

Ok. Two can play that game asshole.

1. You're using Mame. MAME. Mame is awful for this game, it's no wonder you're probably having so much trouble since it doesn't even work properly.

2. Many people could attest that I can consistently get the route. An occasional messup, but if I'm dead serious and don't mess around I'll get it.

3. A 140 IQ and an 8 inch penis have nothing to do with playing SHMUPs. I tried to help you, this can be done consistently, you're just shit at consistency probably because you're not playing the game the way it's meant to be played. I've Ura 2-ALL'd this several times. I know what I'm talking about. I'm not sure how long you've been playing this but clearly you're new to DFK and so far haven't figured it out. You are calling me out when your routes are clearly shit. In case you didn't know:

No deaths, full hyper bar near the warp point, and only 1 silo can be ran over by a tank are the requirements.

[Lilium]

@Obscura Yeah yeah, lets just throw insults at the people trying to teach you how to solve your problem that's bound to make everything better. How dare you even question their consistency at this? It pisses me off to see you pass of the playing capabilities of others as being "just the one lucky run" because apparently if you can't get something working reliably then of course nobody can unless they're extremely intelligent supermen.

Your behaviour sucks. Its unbelievable.

[Obscura]

Hey, hey, let's keep this civil. He made and edited a very detailed video with annotations and everything, least you can do is not insult him

Civility went out the window about 4 pages ago; you can't "keep" what you don't have in the first place.

@ResumeDPosition:
I know for fact your requirements are wrong, because I've gotten the warp after dying. Why does everyone keep overlooking this?

And LOL @ the little "I'm so nice, I was only trying to help!" when you were making sarcastic comments in the video description and then outright admitted to trolling with the "this part is random" annotation.

(Also, everyone is missing the point about the whole 140 IQ 8 inch penis thing. Read this comic: http://xkcd.com/715/ . Everyone on the internet lies about who they are and what they can do; that's my point.)

[trap15]

xkcd

[Emuser]

Hey, hey, let's keep this civil. He made and edited a very detailed video with annotations and everything, least you can do is not insult him

Civility went out the window about 4 pages ago; you can't "keep" what you don't have in the first place.

@ResumeDPosition:
I know for fact your requirements are wrong, because I've gotten the warp after dying. Why does everyone keep overlooking this?

And LOL @ the little "I'm so nice, I was only trying to help!" when you were making sarcastic comments in the video description and then outright admitted to trolling with the "this part is random" annotation.

(Also, everyone is missing the point about the whole 140 IQ 8 inch penis thing. Read this comic: http://xkcd.com/715/ . Everyone on the internet lies about who they are and what they can do; that's my point.)

Show me proof of getting the warp after dying.

Nothing changes with which ship and type you use, my C-Strong vid wasn't "good" enough and couldn't be used because it wasn't B-Power, so I used B-Power in this vid. That is why sarcastic comments and shoutouts are in the description of my vid now. You are savagely overestimating how much randomness there is in that one part. It is literally the difference between you might have to tap laser a few times or maybe not.

Also, so far I have not lied about who I am or what I can do.

[Obscura]

Hey, hey, let's keep this civil. He made and edited a very detailed video with annotations and everything, least you can do is not insult him

Civility went out the window about 4 pages ago; you can't "keep" what you don't have in the first place.

@ResumeDPosition:
I know for fact your requirements are wrong, because I've gotten the warp after dying. Why does everyone keep overlooking this?

And LOL @ the little "I'm so nice, I was only trying to help!" when you were making sarcastic comments in the video description and then outright admitted to trolling with the "this part is random" annotation.

(Also, everyone is missing the point about the whole 140 IQ 8 inch penis thing. Read this comic: http://xkcd.com/715/ . Everyone on the internet lies about who they are and what they can do; that's my point.)

Show me proof of getting the warp after dying.

Got it recorded, encoding and uploading now. If you want to save yourself the time, try intentionally dying on the last tank after killing the final silo. I've gotten it with deaths earlier than that; I suspect that if the death doesn't give you any meter and as long as you're actually alive when the transition happens, then it's OK.

[Shepardus]

1. Even if civility went out the window 4 pages ago, that doesn't mean we should just make things worse.

2. You really need to stop taking everything so personally, like seeing the video description as a sarcastic attack on you and an attempt at trolling. Every shmup has elements of unpredictability in it, that annotation is simply an admission of that.

3. If you really believe everybody's flat-out lying to you on the internet then there's no point in any sort of communication at all, because everything is just lies all around and there's no point in being here at all. It's easy to just say you're not going to trust anything, because technically we could all be lying and faking every video in some sort of cruel sadistic plot to belittle you and exaggerate our own abilities, and in reality none of us have even 1cc'd a shmup before, but it doesn't strike me as particularly likely considering that none of us are gaining a whole lot from this.

4. Maybe you can die, I haven't been able to replicate it but if you can try to get a video of it posted, it'll help all of us. Though to be fair any legit run shouldn't be dying that early anyway so whether it's a requirement is kind of moot. Having a hyper in time definitely does seem to be a requirement, and as far as I can tell the silos requirement is true as well.

[Obscura]

2. You really need to stop taking everything so personally, like seeing the video description as a sarcastic attack on you and an attempt at trolling. Every shmup has elements of unpredictability in it, that annotation is simply an admission of that.

Read up a few posts; he outright said that he was trolling.

4. Maybe you can die, I haven't been able to replicate it but if you can try to get a video of it posted, it'll help all of us. Though to be fair any legit run shouldn't be dying that early anyway so whether it's a requirement is kind of moot. Having a hyper in time definitely does seem to be a requirement, and as far as I can tell the silos requirement is true as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-FhASh ... e=youtu.be

The vid is up now.

[Emuser]

Having brute force approached route entry on an earlier stream, I know that there is a certain point where you can use your hyper before the warp actually occurs and still gets it. Curious to see if the death is in a certain spot that I'm thinking of.

EDIT: HOLY SHIT.

Ok, so the no death, no hyper thing ONLY applies until you destroy the last silo assuming you have been carrying the conditions. Normally we wouldn't be dying or using the hypers until later, but still, the mystery shrouding the literal exact requirements is ridiculous, but I think you actually managed to solve the last missing discrepancy...

[Shepardus]

4. Maybe you can die, I haven't been able to replicate it but if you can try to get a video of it posted, it'll help all of us. Though to be fair any legit run shouldn't be dying that early anyway so whether it's a requirement is kind of moot. Having a hyper in time definitely does seem to be a requirement, and as far as I can tell the silos requirement is true as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-FhASh ... e=youtu.be

The vid is up now.

Interesting; how much earlier have you been able to die and still get the warp? Ever done it by dying before satisfying the other requirements, or just after? Because I'm thinking it may be that you have to not die while satisfying the requirements, but after satisfying them it doesn't matter.

[Obscura]

Having brute force approached route entry on an earlier stream, I know that there is a certain point where you can use your hyper before the warp actually occurs and still gets it. Curious to see if the death is in a certain spot that I'm thinking of.

EDIT: HOLY SHIT.

Ok, so the no death, no hyper thing ONLY applies until you destroy the last silo assuming you have been carrying the conditions. Normally we wouldn't be dying or using the hypers until later, but still, the mystery shrouding the literal exact requirements is ridiculous, but I think you actually managed to solve the last missing discrepancy...

That raises a question: does the hyper bar need to be full before the last silo kill? I don't know of any vid that shows either way conclusively on this one, and I'm not good enough at manipulating the hyper bar precisely to work that one out.

@Shepardus -- I'm pretty sure I've died like right at the start of the level and gotten it before, but it's hard to say; when you've run this brief section as many times as I have over the last few days, it all starts blurring together.

[Emuser]

Yea...my mind is blown.

For years, we have had a general basis of what to do, but we would just get a route, learn it, and that's it.

Silo myth busting from earlier:

http://www.twitch.tv/emuser/c/6066982

This shows that 1 silo can be ran over(any of them) and you still get entry.

So given, Obscura's last post:

Only 1 silo ran over by a tank
No deaths until last silo is destroyed
Full hyper meter upon destroying last silo.

I tested the hyper one as well, destroying the last silo and then getting full hyper before the boss doesn't work. You need to have it ready to use when the last silo explodes.

Admittedly it is easier to get the route without a hyper before the silos, but you miss out on score obviously, and rank to carry over to the 2nd boss less obviously.

[Obscura]

Another question that raises:
1. I read somewhere that the silos don't have to be actually killed; if you prevent a tank from running over the silo but don't kill it yourself, that's good enough. What happens if you do that with the last silo, given what we think about the hyper/death requirements getting checked for there?

EDIT: Just confirmed, you can leave the last silo totally untouched and get the warp. How the hell does that play with the hyper/death theories?!?!

[Shepardus]

I would think that killing a tank counts the same way for the requirement as killing the silos it's associated with, since either way you're preventing the tank from running over the silo.

[Emuser]

After some more testing:

If none of the other silos get ran over and the last one gets left alone, the last silo will be the "1" that you messed up on and move on. As soon as you are able to hit the last silo, it seems that the no death/full hyper requirement is checked then. I even did it so that all the other silos were protected from the tanks, then I rammed a popcorn and barely took out the last tank before it hit the last silo and I still warped.

[Obscura]

Does "as soon as you are able to hit the last silo" mean right when it starts scrolling on the screen? If so, that means you need full hyper a lot earlier than normally thought, and explains quite a few runs I've had that failed (I've had a lot of runs where I've heard the voice come in while I'm killing the third silo).

[Emuser]

Yea, as far as I can see, literally when it is scrolling onto the screen and you could be hitting it with your laser as early as possible.

Oddly enough, that is when it checks for the hyper/death requirements after which it will clear or fail you when the last silo is scrolling in. The silos being ran over requirement isn't checked until 2 silos get ran over or the last silo is destroyed. Two times I let the 3rd silo get hit while protecting the 2nd and 4th silos AND leaving the 5th intact. I left the 5th intact and didn't warp, but I destroyed it the MOMENT before the warp happens on the 2nd go and I actually warped.

I'm amazed honestly at some of these specifics that I haven't seen fleshed out elsewhere.

Also, the 3rd silo seems to blow up randomly at times for reasons I have no understanding of. It even happens in my vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoI-OONBwsc#t=53

The extent of how much we all just didn't care to figure out the exact details and just find a path that works without worrying about the specifics is coming to light as you can clearly see via a whole page of me trying to crush theories of a game I cleared years ago...I guess you could consider it...

One Shmup grievance of mine.

[ACSeraph]

So uh, got curious as to whether this was actually hard or not, and I decided to give it a go myself. I'm about as scrubby as it gets at DFK, and I've never put any real effort into it or attempted to learn scoring (chaining? no thanks.). Anyhow going in with my half-assed strategy of "ride the top of the screen to get a hyper and speed kill the tanks" it worked 100% of the time from the first try. Fancy scoring tricks may make things a lot more complicated sure, but if you just want to brute force your way in it is apparently incredibly easy to do.

[Emuser]

Honestly, even ditching the hyper makes it easier, oddly enough since the hyper laser is so big that all the tanks and medium enemies will often block your way to get the silos quickly, especially if you are in Normal mode and weaker...or Boost mode and you're slower. I wouldn't recommend that when playing for score, and because hyper route leads to an easy 1up and half way towards the 2nd, but if you don't care and just want to clear I guess more experimenting would be necessary to see if hyper or no hyper is easier for someone.

[Shepardus]

Getting into the route without considering scoring isn't very hard, it's mostly a matter of point-blanking the top of the screen until you get the warp. Actually working it into a scoring route seems to be tougher especially given how unclear the exact requirements are (or were).

[Emuser]

Well we finally got it all done now more or less:

Full Hyper and no deaths when final silo is scrolling in, the MOMENT laser can hit it.
Only 1 silo ran over by a tank or left alone if none get ran over by tanks(including the 1st silo which can't get ran over).

I'm pretty certain that there is no more left to figure out.

[Shepardus]

Yeah I think that's right from what we've seen; thanks to you and Obscura for testing this thoroughly!

inb4 someone posts evidence to the contrary

[Obscura]

Pretty sure you also can't let a revealed bee pass, unless you debunked that one?

[Emuser]

Yea, bees don't play a factor getting into the path, but you should be getting them because technically you'll need them to stay in the path anyways.

[Shepardus]

Pretty sure you also can't let a revealed bee pass, unless you debunked that one?

I just managed to get the warp while letting a revealed bee pass, so consider that debunked. Forgot to record it though, I'll try to do it again.

(though as ResumeDPosition said you should of course be getting them anyway)

Edit: Managed to do it again with a recording, uploaded in crappy quality (as typical of me) here.

[Obscura]

Yea, bees don't play a factor getting into the path, but you should be getting them because technically you'll need them to stay in the path anyways.

Huh? Only requirement to stay in the path (at least first loop) is don't die to the special midbosses.