I got a 1CC live on the AGDQ2015 bonus stream! (dojbl 1-ALL)

[1up]

Typically a speedrunner is also explaining whats going on along the way. I could imagine it would be hard as hell to sit and explain while 1cc'ing a shmup.

[Shepardus]

Maybe it'd be possible to do it in a pair or a small group, like they did for the Tetris TGM demonstrations?

[Frenetic]

Hmm, given enough time maybe STGWeekly and co. can bring a contingent to SGDQ 2015 this year? One of us could sit on the couch and do commentary while the other plays. Maybe some players from Awesome Game Replays can come out as well.

Who would I contact to start getting on the list for a stream?

Thanks,
Frenetic

[Blackbird]

I'm definitely interested in getting some shmups in GDQ. I really wanted to go to AGDQ 2015, actually, but I ended up not being able to attend because it fell too close to a major game launch and I was too busy doing other work related things =P.

Maybe by the time SGDQ rolls around I'll be good enough at CC Arcade to put on a reasonable demo. At the very least I can commentate someone's run.

[DEL]

Nice1 Patashu

Is it my PC is is Twitch displaying the run very slowly?

[DanMagoo]

Keep in mind that you are coming from the perspective of someone who is already deep into Shmup culture and only impressed by high scores and super hard clears. For the average viewer, being able to clear the game at all on the spot live is an amazing performance to see. I am sure romscout would agree.

^^ This.

I don’t think people should ‘make the perfect the enemy of the good’ when it comes to promoting the genre.

2-Alls and super high scoring runs are the stuff of legend, but in order to interest more people in the genre it would be cool to recognise that scrappy 1-Alls are a worthy goal too (which they are).

[Patashu]

Hmm, given enough time maybe STGWeekly and co. can bring a contingent to SGDQ 2015 this year? One of us could sit on the couch and do commentary while the other plays. Maybe some players from Awesome Game Replays can come out as well.

Who would I contact to start getting on the list for a stream?

Thanks,
Frenetic

Glad to see the interest!

Wait until March when the games submission topic will be opened for SGDQ2015 here: https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/boa ... etups.html
Then you'll get to post the games you're offering and vouch for them e.g. With a VOD of an example good run. Make sure you follow the rules in the first post, people have had their submissions ignored for breaking them.

Until then I suggest you follow romscout on Twitter, he's the manager of SGDQ2015, he'll tweet important dates and topics and you can ask him questions if you need to work out anything in advance. https://mobile.twitter.com/romscoutsda

And yeah, for an actual run on the schedule, organise someone to commentary who isn't the runner. It will be better that way for everyone.

[Icarus]

... in order to interest more people in the genre it would be cool to recognise that scrappy 1-Alls are a worthy goal too (which they are).

I don't know about you, but I find a player with even a moderate amount of skill, technical knowledge and execution and can actually scoreplay more interesting to watch than a scrub who bombspams his way to a cheap, "scrappy 1-ALL" in some random bullet-hell. It says nothing for the genre and for the Western community as a whole if someone goes onto SGDQ and proceeds to use 35 bombs clearing the first loop of Dodonpachi.
And given the kind of event(s) you're actually trying to push shmups into, I think a player with actual skill doing a "demonstration", akin to the Tetris TGM guys and their skilled, knowledgeable demos, is a better, more enticing prospect for the event organisers and attendees.

[DanMagoo]

I don't know about you, but I find a player with even a moderate amount of skill, technical knowledge and execution and can actually scoreplay more interesting to watch than a scrub who bombspams his way to a cheap, "scrappy 1-ALL" in some random bullet-hell. It says nothing for the genre and for the Western community as a whole if someone goes onto SGDQ and proceeds to use 35 bombs clearing the first loop of Dodonpachi.
And given the kind of event(s) you're actually trying to push shmups into, I think a player with actual skill doing a "demonstration", akin to the Tetris TGM guys and their skilled, knowledgeable demos, is a better, more enticing prospect for the event organisers and attendees.

Hang on, a 1CC is a 1CC, and players are free to use the resources they are given in the game to achieve that.

If not, why would it be OK for top players to use the freeze bug in Dodonpachi stage 4?

Maybe more people would get involved if they thought that 1-credit clears were within their capability, and that they weren’t personally responsible for maintaining the image of Western superplayers in Japan?

P.S. using all the bombs available in a single credit would theoretically get the game done quicker

[Erppo]

Hang on, a 1CC is a 1CC, and players are free to use the resources they are given in the game to achieve that.

What does this have to do with anything? A bad 1CC isn't the least bit interesting or suitable for an event that's supposed to showcase skilled high level play.

[DanMagoo]

Hang on, a 1CC is a 1CC, and players are free to use the resources they are given in the game to achieve that.

What does this have to do with anything? A bad 1CC isn't the least bit interesting or suitable for an event that's supposed to showcase skilled high level play.

So are you taking away from what Patashu did, because of how he did it?

Because I think what myself and others are saying is that it's a feat of skill to even clear one of these games full stop, and maybe other gamers would find that easier to relate to.

[Erppo]

Hang on, a 1CC is a 1CC, and players are free to use the resources they are given in the game to achieve that.

What does this have to do with anything? A bad 1CC isn't the least bit interesting or suitable for an event that's supposed to showcase skilled high level play.

So are you taking away from what Patashu did, because of how he did it?

What? He wasn't part of the program, he gave a demo in the bonus stream that was specifically meant for casual play.

[Icarus]

Hang on, a 1CC is a 1CC, and players are free to use the resources they are given in the game to achieve that.

The difference being that at a public demo at an event that showcases skilled play, a player who can score 180mil+ first loop clear in DDP is and will be a more interesting watch than a player than a player that scores 40mil first loop clear. At the various meets I've attended the past 15+ years, I personally haven't met any people who find watching someone scrap their way through a game on stage particularly exciting - if I personally want to watch newbs play, I'll go to the public playing area, thanks.

If not, why would it be OK for top players to use the freeze bug in Dodonpachi stage 4?

Using the resources that are given to you by way of the game's systems (eg bombs/lives), and using a glitch that is the result of quirky programming and requires some execution are two vastly different things entirely. One is something any player can use, the other is something only knowledgeable and skilled players can utilise.

Maybe more people would get involved if they thought that 1-credit clears were within their capability, and that they weren’t personally responsible for maintaining the image of Western superplayers in Japan?

While I have no problem with people getting involved with the genre, I'd rather see two or three decent and dedicated players get regularly involved, than a thousand muppets looking to jump on the next big thing, then vanish once they are bored. My annoyance with the community as a whole is centered around the waves of people who appear and contribute nothing but noise, and do nothing to advance the community in any way. At least in the speedrunning community, there are always new players pushing knowledge forward and finding new things to help players in their respective gaming groups, as well as keeping things competitive.

What do we have but a small group of decent players, a small group of people who contribute to the advancement of the community through sharing of information, and a very, very, very high percentage of people who do nothing?

[Sakurei]

2-Alls and super high scoring runs are the stuff of legend, but in order to interest more people in the genre it would be cool to recognise that scrappy 1-Alls are a worthy goal too (which they are).

1. Neither is really stuff of legend. Everyone can produce high scoring replays or 2-alls with enough dedication and practice. That does not turn you into a legend. A massive exaggeration.

2. While scrubby 1-alls are worthy goals, they are unimpressive to watch. You're not going to entice new players into playing shmups by showing of a run where you bomb the whole game. Peope can watch let's plays (which that would basically be) on Youtube all they want. Watching a good run live is an entirely different experience and definitely far more worthwhile.
On that note, I believe it's a good idea to not rush things here. Trying to arrange things in a hurry will only lead to bad results. Surely there are actually capable shmup players willing to participate in a marathon like this, right?

[chum]

AGDQ is not meant for people that aren't high-level players at their game

[Lilium]

Awesome Games Done Poorly - In which we fight cancer with a hugbox of people reminding each other that its okay to suck.

[jepjepjep]

My annoyance with the community as a whole is centered around the waves of people who appear and contribute nothing but noise, and do nothing to advance the community in any way. At least in the speedrunning community, there are always new players pushing knowledge forward and finding new things to help players in their respective gaming groups, as well as keeping things competitive.

What do we have but a small group of decent players, a small group of people who contribute to the advancement of the community through sharing of information, and a very, very, very high percentage of people who do nothing?

The community of shmup players is very small to begin with, and only getting smaller with time. I don't think this attitude of "you must be a dedicated score player or you are just making noise" is a healthy one. We should be encouraging new players to the genre, but there is so much elitism on this forum at times it can drive away players that are just beginning or are less dedicated. I have noticed a shift over the years. Back when I started playing shmups, a 1cc in any shmup was generally met with positive encouragement. Nowadays, I see a lot of posts disparaging "bombspam clears" and a lot of humble-brag comments that are really offputting.

[Erppo]

The community of shmup players is very small to begin with, and only getting smaller with time.

If you look at the scoreboards of this forum from 5-10 years ago they tend to be remarkably empty and of really low level compared to the boards of today. To me it seems the number of capable active players in the Western scene has on the contrary, grown a lot.

E: I suppose there have been local scenes back when living arcades were a thing, but those aren't very relevant if you happen to live away from them.

[Icarus]

We should be encouraging new players to the genre, but there is so much elitism on this forum at times it can drive away players that are just beginning or are less dedicated. I have noticed a shift over the years. Back when I started playing shmups, a 1cc in any shmup was generally met with positive encouragement. Nowadays, I see a lot of posts disparaging "bombspam clears" and a lot of humble-brag comments that are really offputting.

Yes, we should.

But I would rather see just one new face come in, encourage a good level of competition, and push things forward, than ten people who come here just because they think it's cool and the new thing to be in.
Also, the only attitude that's poisonous around here is the "1CC and be done with it" attitude. Yes, 1CCs should be encouraged, but all too often I see people, particularly new faces, going for the quick and easy clear and then moving on. How many threads are there asking what the easiest 1CCs are?

Clears should be the end product of dedication and love, not a quick notch on the bedpost.

[jepjepjep]

The community of shmup players is very small to begin with, and only getting smaller with time.

If you look at the scoreboards of this forum from 5-10 years ago they tend to be remarkably empty and of really low level compared to the boards of today. To me it seems the number of capable active players in the Western scene has on the contrary, grown a lot.

E: I suppose there have been local scenes back when living arcades were a thing, but those aren't very relevant if you happen to live away from them.

I agree that overall the scores of today are better, but we also have much more access to high level replays. Back then superplays had to be bought on vhs/dvd for high prices, now it's all on youtube/nico at the click of a button.

Also, most of the active scoreboards are for newer games or games that were not easily accessible back then. Back in 2005, you could only play DOJ Black Label or Ketsui if you bought a $1000 pcb.

[jepjepjep]

Yes, we should.

But I would rather see just one new face come in, encourage a good level of competition, and push things forward, than ten people who come here just because they think it's cool and the new thing to be in.
Also, the only attitude that's poisonous around here is the "1CC and be done with it" attitude. Yes, 1CCs should be encouraged, but all too often I see people, particularly new faces, going for the quick and easy clear and then moving on. How many threads are there asking what the easiest 1CCs are?

Clears should be the end product of dedication and love, not a quick notch on the bedpost.

The competition aspect of it is always there and the scoreboards are an objective marker. I don't think anyone who posts a low-score 1cc is under the delusion that they've mastered that game, but they have reached a personal goal. I think it is a poisonous attitude to belittle those achievements. Personally speaking, I cannot commit enough time to playing shmups to achieve very high scores due to life circumstances being a husband, father of young children, and job commitments. Does that make me any less of an enthusiast given that I really enjoy playing shmups and I'm even one of those crazy people that has an arcade cab in their living room? I'm lucky to get 1 hour of time to play on a good day and I read about superplayers practicing 8+ hours per day every day. Of course I'm not going to be able to contribute any strategy to them. But is that what you really want, to have a small, closed community of dedicated score-players? How is that any different than the "secret Donpachi video ring"?

I think we should encourage more the people that come in because it's the cool thing to do, going for easy 1CCs, because they might get hooked and stay. That is a way to grow the genre.

[DanMagoo]

Clears should be the end product of dedication and love, not a quick notch on the bedpost.

If you want there to be anyone left making these games in 10 years time, then a clear should be just exactly what the paying public want it to be. You don't set the rules.

If you want a community of 3 elite players then why don't you 3 set up your own forum and see if you can beg Cave to make a new game for the 3 of you to compete at?

Hey, you'd be guaranteed a global top 3 score!

[DanMagoo]

The competition aspect of it is always there and the scoreboards are an objective marker. I don't think anyone who posts a low-score 1cc is under the delusion that they've mastered that game, but they have reached a personal goal. I think it is a poisonous attitude to belittle those achievements. Personally speaking, I cannot commit enough time to playing shmups to achieve very high scores due to life circumstances being a husband, father of young children, and job commitments. Does that make me any less of an enthusiast given that I really enjoy playing shmups and I'm even one of those crazy people that has an arcade cab in their living room? I'm lucky to get 1 hour of time to play on a good day and I read about superplayers practicing 8+ hours per day every day. Of course I'm not going to be able to contribute any strategy to them. But is that what you really want, to have a small, closed community of dedicated score-players? How is that any different than the "secret Donpachi video ring"?

I think we should encourage more the people that come in because it's the cool thing to do, going for easy 1CCs, because they might get hooked and stay. That is a way to grow the genre.

This.

[Icarus]

If you want there to be anyone left making these games in 10 years time, then a clear should be just exactly what the paying public want it to be. You don't set the rules.
If you want a community of 3 elite players then why don't you 3 set up your own forum and see if you can beg Cave to make a new game for the 3 of you to compete at?
Hey, you'd be guaranteed a global top 3 score!

Let's make one thing absolutely clear: at a globally streamed event, where the players on display are of a high-level and are knowledgeable, a suitably high-level STG player running a demonstration of [x] game will be more inspiring to people, and a better advertisement for the genre and the community than, say, you. That's my opinion, and I stick by it.

[DanMagoo]

Let's make one thing absolutely clear: at a globally streamed event, where the players on display are of a high-level and are knowledgeable, a suitably high-level STG player running a demonstration of [x] game will be more inspiring to people, and a better advertisement for the genre and the community than, say, you. That's my opinion, and I stick by it.

Homes, you're no advert for this community yourself.

[Zaarock]

Clears should be the end product of dedication and love, not a quick notch on the bedpost.

If you want there to be anyone left making these games in 10 years time, then a clear should be just exactly what the paying public want it to be. You don't set the rules.

If you want a community of 3 elite players then why don't you 3 set up your own forum and see if you can beg Cave to make a new game for the 3 of you to compete at?

Hey, you'd be guaranteed a global top 3 score!

Many very difficult to beat games have been speedrunned at the GDQ events, and they still had high level runs. (F-Zero GX story mode, arcade block this year, Gimmick!, lots of others). Trying to get shmups to have a 'free pass' just because they're score runs sounds ridiculous. TGM didn't get one either (for being a 'demonstration') and it got a lot of hype as a result of the amazing players.

[Icarus]

Homes, you're no advert for this community yourself.

Good. I wouldn't have it any other way.

But is that what you really want, to have a small, closed community of dedicated score-players? How is that any different than the "secret Donpachi video ring"?

No, I want to see a higher quality of community contributors come in. The only thing that this could possibly lead to is a much lower quality in the short to middle term, especially from a place like Twitch which is 99% idiots spamming emotes in chat during the event.

[trap15]

AGDQ is not meant for people that aren't high-level players at their game

[DanMagoo]

The only thing that this could possibly lead to is a much lower quality in the short to middle term, especially from a place like Twitch which is 99% idiots spamming emotes in chat during the event.

Yeah, I guess that's what they say over at Riot Games while they count all the fat stacks of cash from League of Legends.

I guess that's why PS4 and XBONE let you stream directly to Twitch from the console.

Raiden V anyone?

[trap15]

I don't see how what you said has any relevance. By quality he means community quality. Increasing the number of average brain-dead drooling stream monsters in the community can only lower posting quality. Money has no factor.