XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Smashbro29]

Lay off man, I don't know how all of it works that's why I ask questions when I can't find the answer. I also don't know how to open the thing.

Sometimes in this hobby you just need to use a bit of initiative, especially if someone is trying to help you it's not very helpful to say in return "No I refuse to do that". Especially if its something trivial.

Anyway to open a SCART cable typically you just unscrew the round bit that sits between the cable and the SCART connector then gently pull it apart. To seal it up again, reverse the process.

She's really hard to get in contact with, she used to have a website and respond via email and ebay. She doesn't reply anymore and her shop was down for the last few days.

She has said publicly she gets bogged down with questions especially at busier times of year, you just have to cut these small companies some slack sometimes is all.

Initiative is fine but I don't want to ruin a cable my entire set up uses. I have to be careful.

It's really difficult to get that round thing off the end. Any tips? That thing is on there.

[wyvernshill]

Lo everyone,

I finally bit the bullet and ordered my XRGB-Mini from Solaris Japan a few weeks ago.
yesterday i finally got the unit.
I also had a replacement power supply (220V Europe).

Now i'm still waiting to get my PAL XRGB-Mini scart kabel from http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk but its been weeks now ..., still nothing. (for the modified PAL SNES)

Anyway, it seems Japan Solaris made a mistake. i never bought the Unit with the component cable, but they did include one anyway. Yay for me !
At this point i was able to connect my PS2 trough component.
Now i only tried 480i titles since most games will only play in 480i and only a select few from my collection support 480p. Also i want to avoid changing the config every freaking time i switch from a 480i game to a 480p one.

I tried the recommended 480i settings on the wiki page http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB ... AMEMEISTER
The framemeister is set at 720p 60hz output, natural mode, the image comes trough correctly, but i find it so soft. The tv is a 1080P Sony Bravia HX850 in game modus (no aids activated)
The latest english firmware is installed.

I can increase the sharpness a bit but then everything gets far too "thick", like every line receives an extra border.
Is the softness of the image something i have to live with, or are there suggestions you people can make ?

The PS2 is an american NTSC PS2.
Also the scanlines do work but is there an option to make them a bit more black or more pronounced ? Right now the lines are so faint.

Has anyone got a suggestion where to buy an english overlay for the remote ? The one thing i found on ebay didnt name all the buttons.
And one last thing, is it correct that it will remember the settings between each input ? I can modify what i want on the D-terminal component side and have totally different settings on the scart RGB side ? I do not have to put in the correct settings each time i switch between my SNES (scart RGB) and my PS2 (D-terminal component) ?

Thanks for the aid !

[MartijnK]

Lo everyone,
Now i'm still waiting to get my PAL XRGB-Mini scart kabel from http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk but its been weeks now ..., still nothing. (for the modified PAL SNES)

I cant help you with your setting questions, being a xrgb mini newbie myself. But I do have the same "waiting for weeks"problem. Wondering if it is a coincidence or not. Anotehr cable I ordered from them did arrive a few days later.

[Thomago]

The framemeister is set at 720p 60hz output, natural mode, the image comes trough correctly, but i find it so soft.

Does this get better when you set the output for 1080p? For 480i/p signals this is better anyway; 720p is only cool for 240p stuff (and by the way the 960p DVI mode the better alternative - it's perfect for 240p as well as 480i/p and you don't have to use the Framemeister's low quality vertical filtering).

[ApolloBoy]

It's really difficult to get that round thing off the end. Any tips? That thing is on there.

Just twist it open, that's it.

[wyvernshill]

The framemeister is set at 720p 60hz output, natural mode, the image comes trough correctly, but i find it so soft.

Does this get better when you set the output for 1080p? For 480i/p signals this is better anyway; 720p is only cool for 240p stuff (and by the way the 960p DVI mode the better alternative - it's perfect for 240p as well as 480i/p and you don't have to use the Framemeister's low quality vertical filtering).

I must admit i was fighting the framemeister all the way (so many menu's lol). I read several articels mentioning 720p was the best you could set it if you want scanlines.
Honestly i kind of forgot to try it at 1080p ....

I'll try it tonight.

I bought it for 240p anyway, but then again anything extra is nice
The PS2 already looked far better than before and the few games i tested i had 0 lag i could detect or feel.

[TheShadowRunner]

I can increase the sharpness a bit but then everything gets far too "thick", like every line receives an extra border.
Is the softness of the image something i have to live with, or are there suggestions you people can make ?

To quote Fudoh:

don't use it. Leave it at 0. End of discussion.

Use the H_SCALER setting instead to regulate your sharpness. 5 is usual the sharpest setting, 10/11 is the limit you can go to until it gets too soft. If you need a softer CRT look, use 480p output instead of 720p. If you need a sharper one, use 1080p instead.

[gutsmanheavy]

What the best place to get PAL Gamecube scart cables? The one I got from ebay makes it look worse than composite! I'd get some from Consolegoods.co.uk but I got burnt with a crappy N64 s-video lead.

Also, is there any point to getting a scart cable for NES if your console isn't modded? I'd assume not.

[TheRetromancer]

What the best place to get PAL Gamecube scart cables? The one I got from ebay makes it look worse than composite! I'd get some from Consolegoods.co.uk but I got burnt with a crappy N64 s-video lead.

Also, is there any point to getting a scart cable for NES if your console isn't modded? I'd assume not.

If your NES console isn't modded, then no. The NES isn't natively capable of outputting any video signal aside from RF and composite. If your NES even has the Multi-AV connector at all (unlikely except on French PAL, AV Famicom, and a very few NTSC US Toploaders), then any SCART cable that outputs video from an unmodded NES will only be outputting composite over SCART.

With RGB-capable consoles, you always need to be careful to get RGB SCART cables, and preferably those that are fully wired.

[gutsmanheavy]

What the best place to get PAL Gamecube scart cables? The one I got from ebay makes it look worse than composite! I'd get some from Consolegoods.co.uk but I got burnt with a crappy N64 s-video lead.

Also, is there any point to getting a scart cable for NES if your console isn't modded? I'd assume not.

If your NES console isn't modded, then no.

Figured as such, is there anyway to tell if a scart cable is RGB? The GCN cable was listed as RGB but it looks horrid so I doubt it is.

[TheRetromancer]

Figured as such, is there anyway to tell if a scart cable is RGB? The GCN cable was listed as RGB but it looks horrid so I doubt it is.

There's no way to tell by looking, but specifically searching for RGB SCART will help narrow it down. If it doesn't say RGB, then treat it as though it said "Definitely NOT RGB".

I'm not surprised at the shitty video from the PAL GC cable - it uses composite video for sync, which is noted to produce crosshatching and other video artifacts when used. Add a sync strike or some other method in order to get pure sync without a video signal slapped on top of it to fix your problems.

...I'm also pissed that the PAL GC can output RGB, while us NTSC-ers need that damnable component cable...

[gutsmanheavy]

Figured as such, is there anyway to tell if a scart cable is RGB? The GCN cable was listed as RGB but it looks horrid so I doubt it is.

There's no way to tell by looking, but specifically searching for RGB SCART will help narrow it down. If it doesn't say RGB, then treat it as though it said "Definitely NOT RGB".

I'm not surprised at the shitty video from the PAL GC cable - it uses composite video for sync, which is noted to produce crosshatching and other video artifacts when used. Add a sync strike or some other method in order to get pure sync without a video signal slapped on top of it to fix your problems.

Would this cable be a good bet? They say they customize for free, so could I get it changed to pure sync? (assuming that's even possible)

EDIT: Would this cable work? It has a luma sync option (whatever that means...)

...I'm also pissed that the PAL GC can output RGB, while us NTSC-ers need that damnable component cable...

It's the one thing I like about PAL format really

[BuckoA51]

Clean/pure sync should be unnecessary on the Mini in most situations. If the image on your Gamecube is bad I wouldn't assume it was that until you eliminated all other possibilities.

Also no, the GC doesn't have a clean sync output.

[gutsmanheavy]

Clean/pure sync should be unnecessary on the Mini in most situations. If the image on your Gamecube is bad I wouldn't assume it was that until you eliminated all other possibilities.

Also no, the GC doesn't have a clean sync output.

Thanks for the info, I'm sure its the individual cables fault. MegaDrive looks great with no sync issues (has jail bars, so I'll get a csync cable to fix that) the ps1/2 has a noisy image but otherwise fine (I'll try to find a better scart cable for that)

It's really only the GameCube so far with a definite bad picture, it has a slight wavy image (very noticeable the image meets the 4:3 black bars/borders) so I'll grab a cable from retrogamingcables.co.uk and see how that goes.

I swear I enjoy researching for the mini more than using it!

[Windfish]

This thread has gotten too big! I have been trying to search for recommended picture settings. In particular, I would like to see what values others have for their Red, Green, and Blue outputs. The default values seem to be set at the max.

[zakruowrath]

This thread has gotten too big! I have been trying to search for recommended picture settings. In particular, I would like to see what values others have for their Red, Green, and Blue outputs. The default values seem to be set at the max.

Mine are all at defaults which are 50 and I've never wanted to adjust them, the picture looks perfect to me.

Looks like My Life In Gaming posted another really informative video on the basics of sync, JP-21, SCART and more, hopefully it's helping people get more into the RGB community.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAlrdCBjUAQ

Speaking of sync, I did have a question about Tim's N64RGB board and the XRGB Mini. Can the XRGB Mini accept TTL sync levels or is it best to use Composite Sync with 75 ohms?

[blizzz]

Just wanted to link that video too.

It's nicely explained, but I'm confused as to why they get so much interference with normal composite video sync. All my cables are wired with c-video and there are no problems. I assume their c-video cables are the first they bought and crap. After that they bought quality ones with c-sync. Is there anyone here who has lines in the image with quality cables from retro_console_accessories?

[Windfish]

Mine are all at defaults which are 50 and I've never wanted to adjust them, the picture looks perfect to me.

Do you play NES games? Pop in Super Mario Bros., and tell me what the color of the sky is on the first level. Should be a clear and bright blue. Mine is more indigo than blue.

I need to adjust some of these settings, but they are grayed out, like Saturation. How do I enable manual adjustment?

[Windfish]

Hmm... so I guess manual adjustment of Hue/Saturation is reserved for the non-RGB inputs. Can anyone confirm?

[CkRtech]

Speaking of sync, I did have a question about Tim's N64RGB board and the XRGB Mini. Can the XRGB Mini accept TTL sync levels or is it best to use Composite Sync with 75 ohms?

I believe the XRGB is pretty friendly with all types of sync. I scoped some sync signals when I made my NTSC SNES and Genesis RGB cables. I ended up using the unmodified composite sync output from the Genesis and hooking it up the Framemeister. That composite sync output of the Genesis is basically TTL sync - the pulse was 0-5V.

The composite sync with 75 ohms is a bit more TV display and compatibility friendly. The TTL sync is a bit more monitor friendly (for certain types).

All that said, Tim's install guide basically states -

Connect the RGB output wires. If you are connecting the sync signal from the N64RGB board the CS75 signal should be used, not CS# (which is a TTL level sync signal).

You are probably fine using either with the Framemeister but might as well use the CS75.

[austin532]

Hmm... so I guess manual adjustment of Hue/Saturation is reserved for the non-RGB inputs. Can anyone confirm?

Correct.

[zakruowrath]

Mine are all at defaults which are 50 and I've never wanted to adjust them, the picture looks perfect to me.

Do you play NES games? Pop in Super Mario Bros., and tell me what the color of the sky is on the first level. Should be a clear and bright blue. Mine is more indigo than blue.

I need to adjust some of these settings, but they are grayed out, like Saturation. How do I enable manual adjustment?

I did test my NES on Composite video and the sky is the same colour I've always seen it as on any TV I've ever used as shown in this stretched example:



Now with RGB, I'm willing to bet that would change, however, I haven't got mine modified yet with the NESRGB so I can't say. However, to answer your other question:

Brightness 25
Gamma 10
Black 0
Hue 45 *greyed out in RGB mode not in composite*
Saturation 32 *greyed out in RGB mode not in composite*
Red 50 *greyed in composite mode not in RGB*
Green 50 *greyed in composite mode not in RGB*
Blue 50 *greyed in composite mode not in RGB*
Sharpness 0

And those are default values as far as I know being I've never changed them.

Speaking of sync, I did have a question about Tim's N64RGB board and the XRGB Mini. Can the XRGB Mini accept TTL sync levels or is it best to use Composite Sync with 75 ohms?

I believe the XRGB is pretty friendly with all types of sync. I scoped some sync signals when I made my NTSC SNES and Genesis RGB cables. I ended up using the unmodified composite sync output from the Genesis and hooking it up the Framemeister. That composite sync output of the Genesis is basically TTL sync - the pulse was 0-5V.

The composite sync with 75 ohms is a bit more TV display and compatibility friendly. The TTL sync is a bit more monitor friendly (for certain types).

All that said, Tim's install guide basically states -

Connect the RGB output wires. If you are connecting the sync signal from the N64RGB board the CS75 signal should be used, not CS# (which is a TTL level sync signal).

You are probably fine using either with the Framemeister but might as well use the CS75.

Ah that's wonderful to know, I was going to say when I measured the voltage of the composite video lines on all my SCART cables, the Genesis cable with a sync stripper measured around 4.5V on the composite pin.

I did ask Tim if I could wire up the N64 with #CS being on the Sync (S) pin and the #CS75 being on the (V) composite video pin, cutting the jumpers to those pins of course and he did say that was fine, however does that mean I loose regular composite video on the (V) Pin?

[CkRtech]

I did ask Tim if I could wire up the N64 with #CS being on the Sync (S) pin and the #CS75 being on the (V) composite video pin, cutting the jumpers to those pins of course and he did say that was fine, however does that mean I loose regular composite video on the (V) Pin?

Right. You would turn the composite video pin into composite sync 75 after cutting the trace (or potentially just removing a surface mount component from the output circuit) to disable the composite video connection to the multiAV.

I don't really see a reason to run both of them. Unless you plan on running it to multiple displays, you probably just want to use CS75.

[Zero1]

Hey guys
Should be an easy one for you, though I haven't quite joined the digital age (still using CRT), so I'm not too familiar with these new fangled HDMI things.

Anyway, my setup is a CPS2 board > SCART distribution amp > XRGB > capture card.

Then I started having intermittent issues with losing sound often and occasionally freezing. Well it turns out the new HDMI cables I ordered were rubbish. After much troubleshooting, thinking that I had somehow disabled audio on my laptop/drivers, or screwed up some setting on the mini (as I was playing around with HDMI pass through also), I traced it back to the cable. I tried another and I had the same issue, video but no sound.

It's like the cable wasn't passing through the audio, which I didn't really understand because my understanding is that it's a mulitplexed signal, not like you have separate pins/wires for audio and video.

Any ideas what gives? I need to order a few different cables and it's made me a bit paranoid now. Do I need to look out for any HDMI "version" in particular? Surely 2 channel PCM should be the very first thing they implement if the issue was that these cheap cables only conformed to a very early version of the spec?

[Unseen]

Do I need to look out for any HDMI "version" in particular? Surely 2 channel PCM should be the very first thing they implement if the issue was that these cheap cables only conformed to a very early version of the spec?

HDMI transports audio in the "unused space" of the video frame, so if the cable can transport a picture, it can also transport any audio format supported by HDMI.

(Disclaimer: This does not apply to the Audio Return Channel feature which sends audio in the "reverse direction")

[BuckoA51]

Just wanted to link that video too.

It's nicely explained, but I'm confused as to why they get so much interference with normal composite video sync. All my cables are wired with c-video and there are no problems. I assume their c-video cables are the first they bought and crap. After that they bought quality ones with c-sync. Is there anyone here who has lines in the image with quality cables from retro_console_accessories?

I was surprised when they said this to me while writing/planning the video too. In all the tests I've done, the cross-hatching/checkerboarding thing when using composite video for sync only happened on the XRGB3, not on the Mini. There's lots of different hardware out there though so what happens on one man/womans setup might not on another, etc.

[BuckoA51]

For the sake of the Wiki remind me how the brightness/contrast controls work in Micomsoft's world again:-

Brightness on a regular TV = Black level
Contrast on a regular TV = Adjusts luminance

On the Mini and XRGB3, is this right?

Brightness is the same as contrast on a regular TV
Black is same as brightness on a regular TV but only works in one direction (i.e down)
Gamma should be a bit like contrast on a regular set but can be increased

Is that anywhere near accurate?

[Fudoh]

yes, that's about right.

[tacoguy64]

Recently got a Sega Genesis, Sega CD, and an XRGB mini, what would be the best cable i can get? So far i been looking all over and the best one seems to be the Pack a Punch from Retro Gaming Cables, but they are sold out at the moment. And Retro console accessories aren't selling any Genesis cables at this time. There were a couple more sellers on Ebay but im not sure how reputable they are.

A bit more information about my set up. My tv is the Panasonic Viera 50' inch model TC-P50G10. I have my XRGB outputting with HDMI to my Yamaha RXV377 receiver, which then goes and outputs into my TV.

[Windfish]

zakruowrath, thanks for the pic. I cannot explain, then, why my picture is off. Weird. In any case, your pic will help make adjustments.

I recently did an RGB mod of my N64. The resulting quality is pretty bad - the blurriness and aliasing are terrible. But I am unsure if this is due to a bad install or if this is normal for the N64. Can someone please post pics of Ocarina of Time from an RGB-modded N64 (running through the Framemeister, of course)?