Space Moth DX Thread (Now on Steam!)

[JDE]

I played the demo and it's really fun. You can tell it was well made by all the thought put into the menu, how smooth it controls, by the nice art style... is there a reason the system requirements are so high, though?"

Glad you enjoyed the demo BareKnuckleRoo! As for the system requirements being fairly high for an indie game, the main cause is the way the soul drain effect is done: each enemy that can be soul drained has two sets of sprites, which are on screen at once. Both sprites have the same position, with the top layer being normal and the bottom being neon. The top layer fades out to reveal the neon sprite, which makes the transition very smooth but takes up a lot of memory since both sprites must be present.

Why can't we soul drain those bats?

Tying in with the answer to BareKnuckleRoo's question, the bats have more animation frames than any other enemy, so we decided not to give them soul drained sprites to keep system requirements down.

I just started memorizing the seconds it takes using regular fire on the boss before you can hit it with laser & off it with 2 secs to go. I absolutely love that mechanic & feel it makes the game, not just another pretty face.

This is exactly what dan76 does, and it's good to know someone really enjoys the boss bonus system!

[cave hermit]

Have you guys considered getting in touch with Destructoid? The staff there seems to "get" STG, and they frequently spotlight indie games.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I'm surprised that takes up such a large amount of processing power to do the colour change. Maybe the neon effect would better via a palette change? It just seems odd how high the system requirements are compared to other doujin releases.

[guigui]

I cannot launch the game via Wine on Linux, intel i3 on sony vaio. Some error about not enough memory.
Does that may come up to what BoxeKangaRoo says ?

[BPzeBanshee]

Glad you enjoyed the demo BareKnuckleRoo! As for the system requirements being fairly high for an indie game, the main cause is the way the soul drain effect is done: each enemy that can be soul drained has two sets of sprites, which are on screen at once. Both sprites have the same position, with the top layer being normal and the bottom being neon. The top layer fades out to reveal the neon sprite, which makes the transition very smooth but takes up a lot of memory since both sprites must be present.

Memory consumption is one thing, CPU/GPU usage in GM-land is another. Are you literally just doing two draw_sprite commands? Doing an if check for the need to "go neon" and reducing the amount of draw functions should help a fair bit if that's what you're doing.

Maybe the neon effect would better via a palette change?

No. Attempting to do low-level stuff using high-level functions as what GM has generally kills rather than improves performance. Look at the scripts for "palette changing" that are floating around and you'll understand the horror.

[Laurel_McFang]

that was awesome. thank you. voting on greenlight now good luck.

[JDE]

Have you guys considered getting in touch with Destructoid? The staff there seems to "get" STG, and they frequently spotlight indie games.

Destructoid are definitely better than most mainstream sites when it comes to shmup coverage, and we sent them a free copy of Space Moth to review recently. Haven't heard anything back yet, but that doesn't mean they won't. Fingers crossed!

I cannot launch the game via Wine on Linux, Intel i3 on Sony Vaio.

I think Wine is the problem here, not your hardware setup: Wine has trouble running a lot of GameMaker games sadly. For now, only Windows is officially supported.

Doing an if check for the need to "go neon" and reducing the amount of draw functions should help a fair bit if that's what you're doing.

The game already does this, but it's possible that the check is activating the neon sprites too early, so I'll look into that just in case.

[Bee Cool]

I think Wine is the problem here, not your hardware setup: Wine has trouble running a lot of GameMaker games sadly. For now, only Windows is officially supported.

That's a shame, I guess I will hold off on purchasing this then.

[guigui]

I think Wine is the problem here, not your hardware setup: Wine has trouble running a lot of GameMaker games sadly. For now, only Windows is officially supported.

That's a shame, I guess I will hold off on purchasing this then.

Yep, but porting to Linux also has a cost most developpers are not ready to pay for such a small community.
Maybe via PlayOnLinux that I have not installed yet ?

Anyway, game looks great. Any chance for some sort of console/phone release ?

[Bee Cool]

I don't consider being compatible with wine "porting to linux"

[BPzeBanshee]

The game already does this, but it's possible that the check is activating the neon sprites too early, so I'll look into that just in case.

Hmm, should've guessed you guys were a bit better than to leave something that trivial. My bad.

One trick I've learnt of recently to reduce the amount of calls happening in multiple Step events is for some things like bullets that might have step events to switch to alarms instead. Problem with this however is it's only practical for where step codes in bullets is for outside-screen checks or something trivial that doesn't necessarily need to be called every frame, and it results in objects "living" for potentially longer than they should if you do that for instance_destroy checks which could tip the scales back into performance cost anyway from having more moving objects alive outside the screen. Still, there's room for consideration. I've heard rendering text HUD to surfaces can be efficient when done correctly too but never managed to do it right without screwing something up personally.

Should you gain good sales on this the GM Compiler and export modules are worth considering too to solve most of the questions of performance and export to mobile platforms. A real technical wizard could do something like a Raspberry Pi and run the game in some kind of tiny Linux form should an export module for it exist, but I'm just airing my thoughts for the future here. I need to get around to buying this when I actually have the time and money spare.

[JDE]

Game looks great. Any chance for some sort of console/phone release?

We'll consider ports to other platforms once the game has sold enough to cover the extra development costs needed, but for now the focus is on getting through Greenlight and onto the Steam Store.

Should you gain good sales on this the GM Compiler and export modules are worth considering too to solve most of the questions of performance and export to mobile platforms.

Space Moth hasn't sold quite enough to cover the costs of the GM Compiler yet, but it's definitely something we want to get! Sales have been slow but steady though, so if that continues hopefully we'll be able to afford it soon.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I've spent some time trying it on my dedicated gaming rig and tweaking with various settings to see if it was a problem on my end (Win 7 64bit, decent enough graphics card) - it still slows way down at the stage 3 boss, and I'm thinking it's not intentional slowdown based on the way the controls become really unresponsive (as opposed to CAVE style slowdown where the controls still respond). Like, easy attack becomes difficult to dodge unresponsive.

Something in the game is seriously unoptimized for it to be experiencing that kind of lag. I wonder if the rig you developed it on is so powerful that you haven't noticed it because it's so high above the requirements, but this is an issue that appears in the full game (and not the demo because it's not an issue in the first game) and it's rather affected my enjoyment of the game. The insane system requirements for something that shouldn't require that kind of processing power were a bit of a red flag for me, so I feel pretty confident now that I've spent some time trying it on a few machines saying that it's probably an issue with the game itself...

My machine's good enough that it can emulate later Cave games (DFK, Galuda 2) without speed issues, so it rather startles me that Space Moth has speed issues, and at a consistent point in the game. Is this some kind of compatibility problem with Windows 7? I don't know what the heck is going on, but it's rather disappointing.

[JDE]

Something in the game is seriously unoptimized... I wonder if the rig you developed it on is so powerful that you haven't noticed it because it's so high above the requirements?

The system requirements for Space Moth are the same as the PC it was built and tested on, which can run the game at a solid 60fps. If your rig meets the system requirements, then in terms of hardware it's definitely good enough to run Space Moth smoothly.

If that's the case but the game isn't running at full speed, then the problem is most likely your software configuration: make sure that no programs are interfering with the game (antivirus software is the main culprit here) and try updating your graphics card drivers.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I know when a computer is running slow due to background overhead (malware, lots of background programs). It's not that. I keep a minimum number of background programs installed, and my graphics drivers are up to date for my Nvidia card.

I can run a variety of intensive 3D games at fullspeed without issues. Maybe nothing new at max resolution, but if something like Rfactor or Outrun 2006 runs at full speed at widescreen resolution and a sprite based Game Maker game has consistent stuttering and lag at certain points in the game, the game is definitely the culprit.

Space Moth doesn't lag at all in the middle of the stage when bullets get fairly dense, so I'm not sure what kind of calculations are being done at the stage 3 boss that cause it to slowdown there to a crawl for me.

Out of curiosity, what were your test machine's hardware specs?

[BPzeBanshee]

You're probably getting fed up with the "its you not us" mantra BKR, I know the feeling, but one thing I've learnt recently in AMD-land is that their latest driver optimisations included with the newest drivers unleash hell on GM and some 2D-related stuff in favour of better 3D performance with shit like Call of Duty. Kaiser and I had someone in nVIDIA-land with a similar issue recently. And although it technically wasn't "us" we both saw what running cutting-edge stuff did to Solid State Survivor.

Installing slightly older nVIDIA drivers might seem extreme for one game (or more? I'm curious to know if you've seen this elsewhere having tried some of my stuff in the past btw) but if JDE can rule out he's not doing anything special around interim time to stage 3 boss that he isn't otherwise doing with other interim periods before bosses then it might just work.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

And although it technically wasn't "us" we both saw what running cutting-edge stuff did to Solid State Survivor.

If you're referring to how SSS used to not run in versions newer than XP due to that rendering bug, that's probably not the best example to use as it was pretty clear it was operating system specific, and was fixed in the latest SSS version update. I'm not sure if it runs in Win 8, but I know SSS now runs just fine in Vista and Win 7.

I'll mess with my graphics and sound drivers to see if anything changes, but the reason I doubt it's related to that is because of how it consistently happens at one point in the game (beating the boss and getting to stage 4, the slowdown is gone, so it's definitely during the boss). End of stage screen also seems very, very long and unskippable, I can't tell if that's intentional or if it's lagging there too, though. I'm also trying to mess with compatibility modes and such...

I did have a driver issue a while back with another game where it would consistently have "pauses" and stuttering in the graphics, but it was sporadic and found throughout the entire game. It wasn't something I could repeat consistently at a specific spot in the game. The graphics would occasionally have hiccups and framerate drops, ruining the experience (Outrun 2006). It ended up being not a graphics issue but a sound driver issue, which was a tad unusual because of how the sound was perfectly in-game fine.

[BPzeBanshee]

If you're referring to how SSS used to not run in versions newer than XP due to that rendering bug, that's probably not the best example to use as it was pretty clear it was operating system specific, and was fixed in the latest SSS version update. I'm not sure if it runs in Win 8, but I know SSS now runs just fine in Vista and Win 7.

SSS is built on the Hot Soup Processor program and some kind of update to that a fellow Japanese citizen found led to the fix AFAIK, so not strictly a Win7 fault but I see what you're saying. My point is it's not abnormal to suspect a system or a graphics card driver abnormality to cause issues even if it seems consistent - Kaiser's machine couldn't handle background_create_from_screen() command in GMOSSE due to a GPU driver bug so I had to make a workaround until he updated his ATI graphics drivers, for instance.

[JDE]

I'll mess with my graphics and sound drivers to see if anything changes, but the reason I doubt it's related to that is because of how it consistently happens at one point in the game.

I'm not sure what's causing the speed issues you're getting at the stage 3 boss BareKnuckleRoo, but I am working on a general performance update for Space Moth so that it will run better on older hardware. Hopefully once this is out you, and anyone else that's having performance problems, will be able to play the game at full speed. Until then, I'm sorry that the stage 3 boss fight runs slowly, but I hope you enjoy the rest of the game. I'll post a link to the update here as soon as it's done, so keep an eye on this thread!

[JDE]

Space Moth v1.50 Update & New Demo

Space Moth has been updated to v1.50 with tons of new features, including improved performance, a brand new Arrange Mode balanced for easier survival but harder scoring, and borders for widescreen displays! See the Update Log in the OP for a full list.

The free demo has also been updated to feature Stage 2 instead of Stage 1 - check it out here:
Free Demo

To celebrate the update, the full version will be on sale for $4.99 (£3.27 in the UK) until Feb. 13th 2015:
Full Version ($4.99 Sale!)

[BulletMagnet]

Aside from the increased life stock, what specifically has been changed in Arrange mode? Maybe I just need to play both modes more to see the differences...

[JDE]

Arrange Mode started out as a cheat for double life stock, accessed through a button code, to make testing 1CC unlocks easier. As an experiment, I added a twist to the scoring system when the cheat was active, and that evolved into Arrange Mode after positive feedback from testers.

Enemy formations and attacks are the same, but score will roll backwards slowly unless you graze, bomb or suicide Yagawa-style.
The score also freezes when a boss warning message is present, during screen fades and of course between stages.

Arrange Mode is a simple 1CC if you just focus on survival, but start playing for score and it becomes a lot more challenging, requiring a very different strategy to Arcade Mode.

[dan76]

Bit of an update here: JDE and I have been working on a new edition of the game... Space Moth DX.



Arrange Mode has become DX Mode, which has around double the bullet count of Arcade Mode with suicide bullets on all enemies. You also get a small hit bonus for every rapid shot that connects with an enemy, and the graze bonus has been reduced and now gives half as many points as the hit bonus.

There's a new optional auto bomb in both DX Mode and Arcade Mode to help beginners, but using an auto bomb will take away all bomb stock and reset the value of bonus items. If you manage to 1CC the game in either mode, the Hawk DX-01 spaceship will be unlocked. It has a weaker rapid shot but a more powerful laser, and moves faster than the Moth when using rapid shot but slower when using the laser.

I've been busy doodling so there are new borders for both Yoko and Tate screen modes, and there are lots of other changes as well like clearer menus, improved performance, balance tweaks...



Because there's so much new stuff in the game we've relaunched our Greenlight page, as it's more than just an update. We've also teamed up with a digital marketing company called Black Shell Media to help it get through Greenlight this time. Shmups are a hard sell to most gamers though, so we could do with all the help we can get from the forum! We've also decided to expand the demo to have Stage 1 and Stage 2, in DX Mode and Arcade Mode.

Vote for Space Moth DX on Greenlight here.
Check out the new demo featuring Stage 1 and 2 in DX Mode and Arcade Mode on our Itch page here.

Once we get through Greenlight those of you who've already bought Space Moth will be getting a free Steam key for DX.

[JDE]

I hope those who bought the drm-free humble widget version will be getting the update as well? I don't see any drm-free version anymore which worries me...

Yes, everyone who bought the Humble Widget version will be getting the new edition for free. We've been having trouble with the Humble Widget recently so that option isn't available at the moment, but we're looking into other DRM-free solutions and aim to have something sorted by the time Space Moth DX is finished.

[ATTRACTS]

Lovely looking game. Best of luck!! I will definitely buy on Steam once it's ready to go.

[Blinge]

Can every Steam user who skims this thread go and vote on Greenlight? It only takes a few seconds of your time. Even if you don't intend to buy the game you'd still be supporting indie shmup devs and your fellow shmupsfarmers. There's no downside.
And now for a Blinge testimonial:
Space Moth is made by shmup fans for shmup fans, it takes a fucking deep understanding to make a good shooter, this we all know.

It's a great game, I've had some hands-on time with the new version and it's pretty damn good.

[CStarFlare]

I liked the original version of this quite a bit. Voted.

[JDE]

Earlier today Space Moth DX was 80% of the way to the Top 100 on Steam Greenlight... and now it's been Greenlit! Massive thanks to everyone that voted for us, stay tuned for more updates as we put the finishing touches on the game and prepare for launch!

[Illyrian]

Earlier today Space Moth DX was 80% of the way to the Top 100 on Steam Greenlight... and now it's been Greenlit! Massive thanks to everyone that voted for us, stay tuned for more updates as we put the finishing touches on the game and prepare for launch!

Awesome stuff, congratulations!

[Cagar]

There's a new DX Mode with suicide bullets on all enemies

In my opinion you should be ashamed of this instead of praising it as a good feature.