NES Recommendations (very specific)

[evil_ash_xero]

Do you know where I can find a video of the collection being played on a real PSX without commentary? The only video I could find was of vol. 5 (the one with Hebereke) emulated with someone talking over it. Sound did seem off, but nowhere near the sound for the Sega Smash Pack for DC. I'm especially curious about how Gimmick is handled since it uses a special sound chip.

No, but I did play it in person. And it sucked. So, I wouldn't think about getting it.

But that's just me.

[BrianC]

I'm not surprised that the NES emulation isn't great, but I still would like to see it in action if anyone has a link. I'm curious to see if Gimmick! is missing any sound channels, as well.

Edit: Now that I think of it, I saw a video of the FC version being played on a US NES and some music and sound effects were missing.

[Immryr]

i haven't read this whole thread so i dunno if this has been mentioned or not... isolated warrior is a great game that seems to be pretty over looked. it's like a weird kind of rail shooter / action game. to me it feels like a precursor to the n64 sin and punishment game. the graphics aren't great though, maybe that will put you off.

[BIL]

I tried out the FC version Max Warrior recently - was certainly digging the shooting and fast pace, but the isometric perspective felt a bit screwy (particularly when landing jumps in the speeder bike stage). I plan to go back at some point to see if I can adjust.

Loved the inter-stage portrait of the main guy, what a cool cat.

[nosorrow]

I have Gimmick! on the Sunsoft Memorial Vol. 6 collection and it sounds fantastic. I have no point of comparison though. (I don't care for repros, so I never sought one.)

Btw, my copy is up for grabs* if anyone's interested. I purchased it brand new a couple months ago and it's still in "like new" condition. only blemish is a slightly faded spine card. I can put up pictures later on if someone wants it.

*$200 shipped, not including PayPal fees.

[evil_ash_xero]

Here's the Famicom version you can compare it to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9p4hv-t0MU

[BrianC]

Here's the Famicom version you can compare it to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9p4hv-t0MU

And the Scandinavian NES version. I'm curious to see which version it sounds more like.

[evil_ash_xero]

If I hadn't thrown away the CD ROM, I would try to put up a sample.

It doesn't sound like either, really. It's just "off". Too bad no one has it up on YouTube.

[BIL]

Ah, fuck it. Double Dragon II is the best FC entry, as ridiculous as the knee is. It's like Contra's spreadgun. Buries everything else but too gratifying to complain about. It looks like the landing friction alone would kill its unfortunate recipient, never mind the brainstem-snapping initial contact.

I still enjoy the more reserved nature of DD3's combat, though - feels less outrageous and more brutal, and god knows brutality is a big part of why I like Technos beaters. Prefer the more realistically proportioned characters too. I don't like FC DD1 at all these days, basic is one thing but the flimsy sense of impact leaves me cold. Immense nostalgia value but as always, that's not enough. I can get my fill of that from a longplay.

Also, DD2's SFX of a thrown lead pipe smashing flesh is goddamn near Silent Hill 2-4's unforgettable item pickup sound. An insouciant "wuwoop" moved by neither vital organs nor vital supplies. Technos had a knack for coaxing great sound effects out of the FC. Just watch this DD2 superplay to be convinced.

[evil_ash_xero]

You know, knowing that you have to play Gimmick without using any continues, to get the last stage to open, kind of changes the whole process a bit. It makes the game more interesting to me, as a challenge. I'm not a fan of that kind of stuff, but it works in this circumstance.

Never played Crisis Force, until now. It's a shmup, but it's actually pretty darn good. Nice graphics, for the NES. Same goes for Gimmick. Those extra chips did some nice things.

Just wanted to say thanks to all the posters adding content to this thread--I've been lurking & benefitting from the info since I got my Everdrive

Glad to see someone is getting something out of this thread, besides me!

I had no idea the NES had this many games that I would like. It's like I'm discovering something all the time.

[BIL]

Aww! <3 this topic.

I like Crisis Force too, feels a bit like Konami channeling Compile (some nice body-ramming action from Type 3's teleport bomb). The third Konami shooter in my library alongside Salamander and Gradius II FC. The latter is most definitely worth considering as its own game - another excellent Japan exclusive with some of that same hardware wizardry. The final stage is a real Gradius Gaiden-style epic sendoff.

Also, have you tried out Abadox and Final Mission? Two good shooters from Natsume. Worth considering in the same bracket as Dragon Fighter/Kage/Solbrain. Play somewhat like Salamander and Forgotten Worlds, respectively. Unfortunately there's a bit of bullet flicker but nothing unmanageable. That's always my primary concern with FC shooters.

Also LOL WUT @ Famicom Double Dragon II max difficulty. It's way the hell harder (better!) than the NES version's max "Grand Master" setting. Even stage 1 FC enemies can take a massive two knees' worth of damage where they drop like flies on NES. I wonder if there's any other weirdness afoot besides the NES one screwing around with a shorter game on lower difficulties (you only get all nine stages on Grand Master).

This also makes the knee a bit less dominant, since enemies get a lot more chances to either duck or trade instead of being annihilated by the first successful hit.

edit: wow, it seems like NES Grand Master = FC Normal. Not just in enemy HP but also AI. On those settings st1-5 enemies are very tardy about attacking you out of a knee. On FC Difficult they'll attack the instant you're in range, making trades much more frequent. Trades still enormously favouring the player in damage, but it does change the feel of the game significantly for the better. I thought it was just my rusty playing getting me tagged, but from a look at a speedrun the NES max difficulty got knocked down a rung. I wonder if that was primarily Acclaim or Technos's doing.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

edit: wow, it seems like NES Grand Master = FC Normal. Not just in enemy HP but also AI. On those settings st1-5 enemies are very tardy about attacking you out of a knee. On FC Difficult they'll attack the instant you're in range, making trades much more frequent. Trades still enormously favouring the player in damage, but it does change the feel of the game significantly for the better. I thought it was just my rusty playing getting me tagged, but from a look at a speedrun the NES max difficulty got knocked down a rung. I wonder if that was primarily Acclaim or Technos's doing.

Is the 2P extra lives cheat still available in the FC version (start 2P, kill off your partner, gain a life every time)?

DD2 was one of those games that could have done with having an extra difficulty mode above Grand Master. I wonder why they didn't include the original difficulty as a selectable option?

[nosorrow]

It's not very popular, but Street Fighter 2010 is one of my favourite ALL TIME games. It is such a misunderstood game, most probably because of that unfortunate title (kind of ironic when you think about it).

Anyways, production values are really high on that one with great detailed graphics, a fantastic OST and very satisfying controls once you get the hang out of it (I recommend playing with an NES Advantage to take advantage of the turbo shot; I have beten the game 5+ times using that controller). Anyone else a big fan of that one?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

^

Awesome game. It takes time getting used to stuff like the invulnerable backflip dodge move, the fixed jump height, and how the punch/kicking attacks work in terms of firing projectiles (namely when to use them). It's a great game, and the only major downside I can think of is the fixed jump height (which is super high, floaty, and very unusual for Capcom platforming action games), that makes precision jumping a bit trickier than need be. This is apparent in stage 1 against the flying enemies in particular; you can't make short hops over them, and you can't control your jump height, meaning precision attacks are a lot trickier (you basically have to fight on the ground or use the midair downwards attack) against flying enemies. This does give it a steeper learning curve than most platformers...

[BIL]

Is the 2P extra lives cheat still available in the FC version (start 2P, kill off your partner, gain a life every time)?

DD2 was one of those games that could have done with having an extra difficulty mode above Grand Master. I wonder why they didn't include the original difficulty as a selectable option?

I'll have to check the 2P lives thing - I do know that the FC version allows continues by default, along with letting you finish the game on any difficulty, which is interesting. Seems it has easier conditions but harder action.

The FC version of DD3 is a bit easier than the NES one, so I was really surprised to notice FC DD2's changes.

It's not very popular, but Street Fighter 2010 is one of my favourite ALL TIME games. It is such a misunderstood game, most probably because of that unfortunate title (kind of ironic when you think about it).

Anyways, production values are really high on that one with great detailed graphics, a fantastic OST and very satisfying controls once you get the hang out of it (I recommend playing with an NES Advantage to take advantage of the turbo shot; I have beten the game 5+ times using that controller). Anyone else a big fan of that one?

Ya I love it Excellent game... has a high entry barrier with the engine idiosyncrasies Roo mentions, naturally giving it a love/hate effect. I think that's part of its charm (that and the wonderful "boss rush safari" concept). Very satisfying engine to master, and there's a lot of random enemy behaviour that'll keep testing you long after the game's memorised.

Something I never saw mentioned prior to getting into the game seriously was the backflip. It's no exaggeration to say it's the game's central mechanic, ala Alien Soldier (MD)'s Zero Teleport. Try to get by without those i-frames and you'll get bludgeoned to pieces. Master it and you'll feel like god damn Space Kenshiro.

A true original from Capcom's latter FC years, along with Little Nemo.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Agreed, I think the difficulty in learning the game does help to make Street Fighter 2010 more memorable. What I remember most I think was how surreal it was. The in-between warp stages, the various bosses, it's a really great game as far as atmosphere goes (the animations are great too, like how you flip as you climb up a wall and reach a ledge).

I also remember it's damn hard to keep your powerups. When you hit 3 or more powerups you lose them down to 2-1/2 if I remember, one lost per hit. Also there's some of the rarer powerups that are seen only once or twice the whole game and lost on death (the backflip powerup that allows you to use it as an attack).

[BIL]

What I remember most I think was how surreal it was. The in-between warp stages, the various bosses, it's a really great game as far as atmosphere goes

Very - I remember being a bit perturbed by it as a little kid, haha. In addition to the steep learning curve and stiff challenge, the mood itself is decidedly unfriendly. Committedly alien with some really discomforting BGMs among the more traditional Capcom power melodies. Now it feels like a grand galactic safari. My favourite scene is probably the Salamanderesque second boss. A duel between a cyborg and a living cavern of furiously mutating biohorror, friggin' awesome! Cronenbergian FC sidescrolling action. The sense of wilderness throughout is also striking, I'm sure the bookending of the more technological locales to either end of the trip was deliberate.

In addition to all the strange places and things, I love the warp gates (always dug horror/science fiction about the perils of teleportation, wormholes and the like). The metallic droning and warmthless white light, the odd interstitial areas and sudden explosive death upon failure to "Fade In" always struck me as inspired. No "stage clear" or "mission complete," just a piercing whine and a countdown until your body gets ripped apart.

The powerdown on damage and scarcity of the flashkick/Option powerups is mean, yeah (Capcom showed a little mercy and some good design sense in limiting the drain to 2.5). In addition to the unhelpful controls and general handling, that's a big psychological hurdle. I notice Natsume action games are really fond of this mechanic too - Kage, Solbrain, Final Mission and both SFC Kiki Kaikais also power you down on damage. It's a harsh system by nature, ensures you can never just coast on powerups for long and have to really master each phase of a game. Great payoff once you're able to consistently rock MAX POWWA, of course. You can absolutely tear apart 2010SF bosses with aggressive use of the Option, and the flashkick makes you all but impossible to corner.

[evil_ash_xero]

Aww! <3 this topic.
Also, have you tried out Abadox and Final Mission? Two good shooters from Natsume.

I always felt this topic was like a sister thread to your Ninja Gaiden thread.

I think I may have played Abadox at one point. Final Mission, I don't think so. But I have played S.C.A.T.. Lovely name.

[BIL]

Incidentally, I was reading a pretty detailed comparison of Final Mission to its overseas versions at flyingomelette recently. I'm definitely happy with the harder and non-pornographically titled original! And besides:

THIS IS WHAT GOD THINKS OF SCAT (・｀ω´・)



(apocalyptic intro! too hot for western children! but scat's okay apparently)

[BrianC]

I'm guessing the US version of DDII was made first? i read on the cutting room floor site, that the JP version has the remains of the US copyright message and text for ending early on easier difficulties within the game code.

[nosorrow]

Ah! I'm glad you guys share my love of SF2010. People play to much of the staples all the time and don't want to commit to games with a steeper learning curve. Anyways, to me, Street Fighter 2010 is in the upper echelon of the NES library along with the usual suspects (Mario, Mega Man, Castlevania, Bionic Commando, Ninja Gaiden, etc.).

Other games that are top tier for me:

-Batman (the first one - fantastic mechanics and OST)
-Faxanadu (great atmosphere and OST, very engrossing)
-Baseball Stars (the first one - my most played sports game; the battery would always end up erasing my "perfect" teams though)

[GSK]

SF2010 is being re-released on the North American Wii U Virtual Console today, and it's supposed to be out for 3DS and in EU soon, too. Playing on 3DS is a pain and NES games look hideous on Wii U for whatever reason, but I'll probably end up grabbing it anyway, thanks to you dudes. I've played it before and enjoyed ir (or what I remember of it, namely the backflip) but the odd level objectives put me off.

[BIL]

Progress always boils down to the same thing: destroy the target to fill the teleport gauge, then exit. Sometimes it's a single large enemy that'll do it in one go, other times it's several that fill the gauge in increments. Similarly, some stages let you roam about / proceed from A to B at your own pace, others are autoscrollers.

I'm guessing the US version of DDII was made first? i read on the cutting room floor site, that the JP version has the remains of the US copyright message and text for ending early on easier difficulties within the game code.

It would be interesting to know, since it'd mean the FC version was toughened up instead of the seemingly more typical (in those days) reverse. Famicom DD3 has a later copyright date which seems to suggest it was toned down a bit.

Other games that are top tier for me:

-Batman (the first one - fantastic mechanics and OST)

I've occasionally tried to get into the second game (Joker/Dynamite), but so far it truly feels like a tech demo first, quality sidescroller second. The enormous sprites could be nice in the proper context, but in a Rockman-style precision platformer/shooter they just make things unwieldy. And to make matters worse the game is utterly remorseless with the cheap shots (that hidden crusher trap in stage 1 sets the tone, unfortunately).

Haven't quite written it off yet, but returning to the first game's pitch-perfect design afterward is always enormously liberating.

[GSK]

Oh, SF2010 is on 3DS today too, neat.

Just noticed that Natsume is giving Wild Guns another run later in the month, hell yes.

Progress always boils down to the same thing: destroy the target to fill the teleport gauge, then exit. Sometimes it's a single large enemy that'll do it in one go, other times it's several that fill the gauge in increments. Similarly, some stages let you roam about / proceed from A to B at your own pace, others are autoscrollers.

Right, I'm sure it all makes sense after a couple tries. I guess I was just carrying the prejudice that comes with being told it was a terrible game for so long--not that I necessarily believed it, but I guess it gave me a good excuse to go play some more Kick Master.

[nosorrow]

Other games that are top tier for me:

-Batman (the first one - fantastic mechanics and OST)

I've occasionally tried to get into the second game (Joker/Dynamite), but so far it truly feels like a tech demo first, quality sidescroller second. The enormous sprites could be nice in the proper context, but in a Rockman-style precision platformer/shooter they just make things unwieldy. And to make matters worse the game is utterly remorseless with the cheap shots (that hidden crusher trap sets the tone, unfortunately).

Haven't quite written it off yet, but returning to the first game's pitch-perfect design afterward is always enormously liberating.

Return of the Joker (RotJ) on NES is a good game in its own right, but nowhere near as fundamentally perfect as the first one, so we agree.

The controls are also slippery in RotJ. All in all, it is still good fun and worth having in the collection. Infinite continues are a blessing to get through the harder parts, but it's not a hard game overall (for comparison's sake, I could never beat the next to last boss, Firebug, in the original game: my father bought us the game in the winter of 1990 and I played it daily for months on end, yet that boss eluded me; a good friend of mine, more skilled than I, managed to beat Firebug but he could not get past the Joker right after - talk about a double whammy!).

[nosorrow]

Oh, SF2010 is on 3DS today too, neat.

Just noticed that Natsume is giving Wild Arms another run later in the month, hell yes.

You mean Wild Guns?

[GSK]

Oh, SF2010 is on 3DS today too, neat.

Just noticed that Natsume is giving Wild Arms another run later in the month, hell yes.

You mean Wild Guns?

Yeah, my bad.

Speaking of Natsume... I've done a little digging and it sounds like they'll probably never re-release Shatterhand, which probably isn't surprising but still sucks.

[BIL]

Would you happen to know whether Solbrain or Shatterhand was the earlier version? I've seen SH claimed as the original several times, but I can't quite believe it with Solbrain being objectively so much less advanced. The games are 95% identical, but the one differing level and two differing bosses are decidedly more sophisticated in Shatterhand, in addition to SH himself having slightly richer animation (jacket flutter).

[Obiwanshinobi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Resc ... Video_game

A video game for Tokkyū Shirei Solbrain was released in 1991 for the Famicom, published by Angel and developed by Natsume. It was localized into Shatterhand, which was published by Jaleco for the Nintendo Entertainment System in North America and Europe shortly after the Japanese release. The differences are mainly cosmetic (changing music and graphics) but there were also several substantial changes, such as which boss appeared in which area. In addition, the theme-park stage from the Famicom version was replaced with a nuclear-submarine stage in the NES version.

[BIL]

Thanks Obi, I've read the Wikipedia pages. Thing is Wiki is often full of shit and contradicted by generally knowledgeable people on forums, as is the case here.

I'd like to know where the idea that SH was the original got started, really.