Dreamcast VS Xbox 360: which has the better shmups?

[Squire Grooktook]

I think I'll go with a genesis. It the cheapest and I don't have to import.

Maybe it's not kosher to say this, but if you're so concerned about money, why bother buying a genesis when you could just emulate it? You might not even end up liking it that much. IMO only a few 16 bit era non-arcade shmups stand the test of time that well (and hell, most of the best titles on genesis are just toaplan arcade ports anyway, some of which are inferior to the arcade originals that you could more easily emulate in mame).

Please don't stone me, everyone else.

[Pretas]

A Gen/MD is also far from a cheap option for STG games, if you look at the going prices for carts like MUSHA Aleste and Eliminate Down.

[Squire Grooktook]

And oh yeah: Honestly importing is the least of your problems. It's not much worse an experience then ordering a game off amazon or ebay (which you can actually do, I imported 2 games directly from ebay).

[Skykid]

This argument was settled in an ultimate forum poll I ran here which placed all the main consoles in contention and incredibly had the Xbox 360 and Saturn joint place number one on a point for point lead.

I can't for the life of me remember the thread title and can't find it in the search. If anyone remembers a little more and can find it I'd be interested to see how it panned out again.

[BIL]

Dun say I never did nothin for ya Sky Boy

[Squire Grooktook]

Hell, either Mushihimesama-Futari or Eschatos alone will probably be worth ten times more replay value than most of the games on Genesis combined (and that's if you're not trying to completely master Mushi or Eschatos). I don't think it's worth buying an entire console just to 1cc Thunder Force IV or MUSHA once on a weekend and than get bored of them (not that you'd likely be able to afford MUSHA anyway, if money is so tight). I've had a genesis since I was a kid, but I can't say I go to it for shmups that often compared to pc, 360, or ps1/ps2.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that old shmups are bad, or that the systems are bad. There are many classic style arcade shmups that I still think are elegant masterpieces that well stand the test of time, and there are many 16 bit console titles that are endlessly replayable today (Contra 3 and Daimakaimura *drools*). But if you're looking for the best shmup console, aside from a few gems the 16 bit console era is neither the best nor the most price efficient IMO.

[Skykid]

Dun say I never did nothin for ya Sky Boy

BILly the KID!

Thanks much brah.

[evil_ash_xero]

Money is a big issue here. I'm think about the dreamcast, as it has more than just cave. What dc shmups do you recommend that aren't too expensive?

Well, XBLA has Ikaruga and Radiant Silvergun. You can't beat that, man.

With a DC, you might end up paying less for the system, and more for the high prices of older games. And shmups are some of the most expensive ones.

From quick look, Ikaruga and Radiant Silvergun are both 10 dollars and 15 dollars. That's for two of the best shmups of all time. Guwange is on XBLA for cheap, as well.
Mushihimesama Futari and ESPGaluda II are about 30 dollars on Amazon. DeathSmiles is around 15 dollars. Akai Katana is around 12 dollars. And this is for NEW copies.
Raiden IV and Raiden Fighters Aces cost over 50 dollars a piece for new copies though.

For the DC, Mars Matrix is 50 dollars used. Giga Wing is over 40 dollars used. Shikigami no Shiro II is around 90 dollars used. Ikaruga is 20 dollars used. Zero Gunner 2 is over 90 dollars used. Gunbird 2 is over 50 dollars used. And so on and so forth.

Of course, you can always get a DC, and use a boot disc, and play back ups. But if you wanted to go that route, you should just use a PC, and get Shmup MAME.

But if you want to actually buy your games, and don't want to pay hundreds for them, I would get an Xbox 360. If you got a Japanese Xbox 360, it would cost you more, but you could get a few more games, that aren't region free. Such as Shikigami no Shiro III, Ketsui, Do DonPachi DOJ Black Label. Mushihimesama HD, which are all region locked.

[LordHypnos]

Well, XBLA has Ikaruga and Radiant Silvergun. You can't beat that, man.

With a DC, you might end up paying less for the system, and more for the high prices of older games. And shmups are some of the most expensive ones.

From quick look, Ikaruga and Radiant Silvergun are both 10 dollars and 15 dollars. That's for two of the best shmups of all time. Guwange is on XBLA for cheap, as well.
Mushihimesama Futari and ESPGaluda II are about 30 dollars on Amazon. DeathSmiles is around 15 dollars. Akai Katana is around 12 dollars. And this is for NEW copies.
Raiden IV and Raiden Fighters Aces cost over 50 dollars a piece for new copies though.

For the DC, Mars Matrix is 50 dollars used. Giga Wing is over 40 dollars used. Shikigami no Shiro II is around 90 dollars used. Ikaruga is 20 dollars used. Zero Gunner 2 is over 90 dollars used. Gunbird 2 is over 50 dollars used. And so on and so forth.

Of course, you can always get a DC, and use a boot disc, and play back ups. But if you wanted to go that route, you should just use a PC, and get Shmup MAME.

But if you want to actually buy your games, and don't want to pay hundreds for them, I would get an Xbox 360. If you got a Japanese Xbox 360, it would cost you more, but you could get a few more games, that aren't region free. Such as Shikigami no Shiro III, Ketsui, Do DonPachi DOJ Black Label. Mushihimesama HD, which are all region locked.

Most of this post is very sensible, but where are you getting those numbers on DC games? Seems very different from my experience, in a few cases, although it's possible that stuff has gone up since I last checked (it was a while ago). I never seen no $20 Ikaruga though, that's insanely low! Whereas the prices on GB2 and GW seem high (I've seen for as low as 20 and 30 respectively). Definately have seen SnS2 cheaper, as well (around 60-70).

[evil_ash_xero]

I just did a quick look on Amazon.

All the older games are spiking up in price. It's pretty tough on a collector.

[HydrogLox]

And oh yeah: Honestly importing is the least of your problems.

Given that mehguy's "Location" states "Canada" even US releases for most physical games for a US Genesis or US DC console will be "imports" - and depending on seller US-to-Canada shipping cost may be a significant amount (~$25 per shipment) unless one can make use of a US address/PO box.

Also I didn't see any mention for Raiden Fighters and Raiden IV as a reason to get a NTSC-U Xbox 360 (sorry if I missed it).

[mehguy]

And oh yeah: Honestly importing is the least of your problems.

Given that mehguy's "Location" states "Canada" even US releases for most physical games for a US Genesis or US DC console will be "imports" - and depending on seller US-to-Canada shipping cost may be a significant amount (~$25 per shipment) unless one can make use of a US address/PO box.

Also I didn't see any mention for Raiden Fighters and Raiden IV as a reason to get a NTSC-U Xbox 360 (sorry if I missed it).

You do realize that a US release IS a Canadian release. US isn't the correct term, North America is the correct term.

[HydrogLox]

You do realize that a US release IS a Canadian release. US isn't the correct term, North America is the correct term.

There are precious few "Canadian" sources for "North American" Sega Genesis and Dreamcast games. Canada has a population of almost 35 million while the US has almost 314 million. So chances are that used Sega Genesis or Dreamcast games will come from the US - occasionally you may be able to source something from a Canadian seller - but those opportunities are few and far between. Also some US sellers won't even ship to Canada.

[mehguy]

You do realize that a US release IS a Canadian release. US isn't the correct term, North America is the correct term.

There are precious few "Canadian" sources for "North American" Sega Genesis and Dreamcast games. Canada has a population of almost 35 million while the US has almost 314 million. So chances are that used Sega Genesis or Dreamcast games will come from the US - occasionally you may be able to source something from a Canadian seller - but those opportunities are few and far between. Also some US sellers won't even ship to Canada.

There are flea markets, there's craigslist and kijiji, and there's game shop around here.

[HydrogLox]

There are flea markets, there's craigslist and kijiji, and there's game shop around here.

Whenever I gave it a shot there were "slim pickins" especially where STGs were concerned. And if "game shop" is EB Games Canada - they haven't had used Genesis or Dreamcast games for eons.

Just an example: Video Games Plus (VGP) - Dreamcast and Video Games Plus (VGP) - Genesis (not that a single on-line store proves anything - but they actually list Genesis and Dreamcast games.

[mehguy]

There are flea markets, there's craigslist and kijiji, and there's game shop around here.

Whenever I gave it a shot there were "slim pickins" especially where STGs were concerned. And if "game shop" is EB Games Canada - they haven't had used Genesis or Dreamcast games for eons.

Just an example: Video Games Plus (VGP) - Dreamcast and Video Games Plus (VGP) - Genesis (not that a single on-line store proves anything - but they actually list Genesis and Dreamcast games.

There are gameshops around my area (not eb games) that sells retro stuff. I went to a flea market a booth was devoted to video games and had decent shmups at great prices.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Zero Gunner 2 is Psikyo alright... with slow bullets. Guardian Force is not compromised in that respect and yeah, if you like anything by Compile, you'll find many Fun Weapons™ to play with in GF. Soukyuugurentai is another boss of a coin-op shmup arcade-perfect on Saturn.

Speaking of Mega Drive, by all means play emulated Eliminate Down. Good 16-bit console shmup? I reckon so. Cheap? Not quite.