I got the most awesome Saidaioujou PCB !

[Patashu]

Woww! Please dump this sometime!

Btw, one thing I'm curious about - does SDoJ do the 'bullets only hurt you every other frame' thing older Cave games do? Or are you not able to tell from the debugging information in this game?

[Aleksei]

I'm coming to rob your house of the board, prepare yourself ever!

[arcade-stg]

This is great!

We are lucky that this debug board reached such a nice guy to do the effort of sharing it

[-S.L-]

Woww! Please dump this sometime!

Btw, one thing I'm curious about - does SDoJ do the 'bullets only hurt you every other frame' thing older Cave games do? Or are you not able to tell from the debugging information in this game?

not quite sure I understand your question ?

I've noticed something really weird when I enable the bullet hit box. Some of the bullets seems to be just there for decoration (or to impress you) , I mean most of them have the hit box, but some doesn't. Would this be possible ?

This is great!

We are lucky that this debug board reached such a nice guy to do the effort of sharing it

One thing you should know about me, is that I AM a really nice guy

Oh and while we are at it, my high score on the leaderboard here is 100% legit, it's on the xbox leaderboard with the replay, and this, I can not cheat

[Patashu]

Woww! Please dump this sometime!

Btw, one thing I'm curious about - does SDoJ do the 'bullets only hurt you every other frame' thing older Cave games do? Or are you not able to tell from the debugging information in this game?

not quite sure I understand your question ?

In old Cave games, such as Dodonpachi, the game only does collision detection between a bullet and the ship every other frame. In particular which frame it does it on is decided by the frame the bullet is shot on, so on average it's doing about half of all collision detections every frame. This was a CPU saving trick that allowed more bullets to be on screen before slowdown was necessary (due to needing to do too many collision checks).

I was wondering if this still occured in modern Cave games like SDoJ (because it does make the bullets 'feel' different if you have it on or off) or if they stopped doing it.

[CStarFlare]

I've heard about that being present in SH3 games as well - at least Mushi 1.

As for the bullets without hitboxes, perhaps you're simplty running into a sprite limit? If the game has a lot to deal with, it might not draw the hitboxes on bullets that are too far away to possibly be a threat?

[Squire Grooktook]

So the player hitbox actually shrinks when you're moving? That's weird as hell, do any other games do this?

[CStarFlare]

Good shit, -S.L-, my man. For those who don't know, hitboxes that shrink while moving is a very common and very normal thing. Don't be alarmed.

^

It might answer a question I've had for a long time - why can I tap dodge and not be killed by the first few bullets that are fired in a straight line, but get shot down by one on the tail end of the string?

[BulletMagnet]

Great finds, sir, and thanks for sharing - with this game we need all the help we can get!

[rjosal]

Wow this is really awesome, I can't believe how cool S.L is to document all of this is so much painstaking detail! Shows how cool this community is.

And +1 on dumping SDOJ "Dev Label"

[Jotamide]

No way this is great! Now I have this urge to play SDOJ.

[To Far Away Times]

Wow, this is pretty great. Awesome find.

[Skykid]

This explains so much about those bullets being weird to dodge. They're oval/blade shaped with wider hitboxes.

[Illyrian]

Wow, that business with the hitboxes is pretty fascinating. So when you're moving left/right he hitbox is the same size as your hitbox in Mushi.

[monouchi]

Super interesting.
Love that the hitbox is getting smaller when going sideways.

[MSZ]

No wonder why the game is so fucking hard, that hitbox is huge.

[AntiFritz]

Why does this seem familiar? Wasn't there a similar board of another cave game that had some unexpected options posted a while back?

This very cool as well.

Pretty sure it was saidaioujou, around it's initial arcade release. Was probably the same guy though and I remember whoever it was posted a video of it.

[-S.L-]

That was me yes.

I removed the video since then, as at first thought it was a bug, but then later on I found out the tricks, only yesterday I found out the debug menu with all those crazy stuff !

[DJ Incompetent]

Thank you for sharing, -S.L-.

If you're still capturing pics, could you please try to snap a hitbox pic of Boss 5 Form 2 when the bee shoots its tail out into a wall? I had a longstanding curiosity if I could thread through the tail ball segments.

[-S.L-]

No you can't every single part of its tail is a square hitbox, so basically that's a moving wall, you just can't pass thru it

[DJ Incompetent]

That's what I figured. Thank you for verifying.

[Bananamatic]

No you can't every single part of its tail is a square hitbox, so basically that's a moving wall, you just can't pass thru it

Does hitting separate parts=more damage?

Try point blanking the tail when it does the attack with the aimed shots before it tries to hit you with the tail, the damage you do is insane(but you'd end up bombing and screw up the timing completely so I don't think it's worth it)

[-S.L-]

I'll try, now that I found the option for being invincible but WITH bullets on screen

EDIT:

Expert: Personnal best



Bananamatic, so I point blank the tail on the attack tail sequence (second form), it does make more damage, but it's virtually impossible to stay on it as you are overwhelmed by bullets, you HAVE to get out of the way on the side, just like normal.

[mimiroru]

great stuff, thanks for sharing. the player hitbox info should be helpful especially for those playing expert/novice expert.

[Bananamatic]

Bananamatic, so I point blank the tail on the attack tail sequence (second form), it does make more damage, but it's virtually impossible to stay on it as you are overwhelmed by bullets, you HAVE to get out of the way on the side, just like normal.

Was thinking about bombing+pointblanking it to skip the honeycomb attack somehow as it's incredibly annoying on Expert

[Chaos Phoenixma]

Do you think you could counterstop it with all those level 10 Hypers and Invincibility?

[-S.L-]

It seems impossible to counter stop the score, the hit counter and the GP meter multiplier is only counter stopping at the very end of the stage, the last minute sort of, just like superplayers, even if I spam the run with hyper 10 after hyper 10, with all the cancel, I don't see it happening no.

[Bananamatic]

How low is your rank entering st5? Lower rank=denser patterns=better cancels IIRC

[-S.L-]

Ok so I can be at rank 30 at end of stage 1 already

But that silly score I did earlier was made from stage 5 directly, as I can skip and don't even bother the 60 billions I can do by spamming stage 1/2/3/4 with hyper 10 every time one ends.

So my rank was t 0. My theory was that superplayer kept the rank low untill stage 5, not in order to get more dense patterns later on, but because it is simply too difficult to play that mode with a high rank (higher than 10 is already hard). I did a run with full rank 50 (already at stage 2), it's just not possible.

Now I've noticed something in this run that I've never seen in counter stopped superplays. Usually, the counter stop GP meter multiplier, arrives when its 999999999 (obviously), then the bug appears and the scores fly like crazy in no time.

I had a complete different experience, when I reached the 999999998, my counter does NOT counter stop, but instead of counter stopping it goes to a fucking weird number. Because I can have as many hyper as I want, I'm obviously reaching that limit a LOT sooner than superplayers, but the score just rise "normally", until I reach the very last cancel tower, THEN I have the bug with a counter stop 999999999.







I'll try to replicate the exact route (without the dodging ) of superplayers, and see if this makes difference, but I can tell you Bananamatic, that pattern in rank 50 are as dense as rank 0. It's just a LOT faster.

[Bananamatic]

I think the overflow should happen around 21m chain value?

If you want to try something really crazy play on Expert and set the difficulty to Very Hard, I saw a TAS of that where he overflowed on stage 3