XRGB-mini Framemeister

[mickcris]

Its probably still a good idea to wire it up properly though in case he wants to use it on another device in the future. Are you using the same edge connector on the cable that works and the cable that does not work. If you are positive its wired correctly, it seems like its not hitting the correct pins on the console side so maybe the edge connector pin spacing is different than the console av port. Or maybe the pins are not grabbing on to the port tight enough.

[Stephen g]

Yeah spacing is fine as it works composite fine ? Regrading the grounding with pin should I be using ?

Just a side note on my mini I'm using the one with the sync stripper built in, would I be better off using the one with out ? For the jag wired with just ground/sync audio etc ?

[DJ Mike]

If it helps anyone in the UK, I use one of these Maplin supplies with my Mini, and it works perfectly:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/maplin-60w-sw ... pply-l11bq

It has the correct plug and voltage available for the Mini. I initially bought one of those fixed supplies recommended on the Wiki and the thing fried itself after just a few hours of use. The Maplin unit has a higher rated ampage (4A) and doesn't get nearly as hot under use. It's a tad dearer (£19.99 right now) than a fixed supply, but it has the advantage of being usable for more appliances due to supporting many plug types and voltage settings.

If you do get one of these, make sure you fix the plug in Centre Positive mode (on the model I received, the word 'TIP' is written on the end of the power cable, and you plug the Mini-compatible tip into the socket with the '+' symbol lining up with 'TIP').

[mickcris]

Yeah spacing is fine as it works composite fine ? Regrading the grounding with pin should I be using ?

Just a side note on my mini I'm using the one with the sync stripper built in, would I be better off using the one with out ? For the jag wired with just ground/sync audio etc ?

The sync stripper is most likely your issue then. But if you wired it up exactly like this it should work:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... htm#jaguar
You will need to send voltage to it (probably on pin 8 ) to get it to work, unless you have one that piggybacks off the xrgb's power supply. I would get one without it or remove the sync stripper from the one you have (or put a switch on it to turn it on or off). You most likely will never need it.

[Stephen g]

Yeah iv wired it just like that, iv also tried 5b as the sync still no joy with the mini....dunno what more I can try..

[mickcris]

Yeah iv wired it just like that, iv also tried 5b as the sync still no joy with the mini....dunno what more I can try..

Try it without the sync stripper. You can rewire the JP21 adapter that came with the mini so you dont have to buy another adapter.

[BuckoA51]

Just a side note on my mini I'm using the one with the sync stripper built in, would I be better off using the one with out ? For the jag wired with just ground/sync audio etc ?

Sync stripper cable with or without the power cable that piggy backs onto the mini?

But if you wired it up exactly like this it should work:

I'd still recommend wiring it the clean sync way rather than composite video for sync.

[Stephen g]

It's the sync one with it built it...this is doin my head lol

Edit... Got it working... The only way I can get it to work is to wire direct to pin 16... Then I did as advised and modded my sync adapter, it now works...

Strange that when soldered to pin 8 it won't work just a blinking mess ?

Need to figure this out why as for me, that wiring diagram will not work ?

Thanks for your input guys, I'll try 5b again and make a new cable...

[BuckoA51]

You're using the sync stripper adapter without the power cable that piggy backs onto the mini's DC in aren't you? I am fairly certain your sync stripper isn't getting enough voltage, simple as that.

If you need a sync stripper for the mini buy the one with the piggy back power adapter.

[Stephen g]

Yes I am and it does state that on the cable it's self, pretty easy to bypass tho, but still doesn't explain why even on normal tv it still didn't work correctly unless I solder direct to pin 16 and not 8 as the diagram shows ?

When I tried 5b instead of the composite sync I got a white screen but sound was fine ?

[Fudoh]

The use of pins 8 and 16 on european scart cables is always a bit confusing. You don't need pin 8 (it usually just causes problems with aspect ratio control), but you need pin 16 to force the TV into RGB mode. You need between 1 and 3V on pin 16. The consoles usually have a 5V output. That's why the standard wiring goes to pin 8 first and then on to pin 16 through a resistor which brings the voltage down to the accepted range.

The Mini uses neither of the pins.

[Stephen g]

The use of pins 8 and 16 on european scart cables is always a bit confusing. You don't need pin 8 (it usually just causes problems with aspect ratio control), but you need pin 16 to force the TV into RGB mode. You need between 1 and 3V on pin 16. The consoles usually have a 5V output. That's why the standard wiring goes to pin 8 first and then on to pin 16 through a resistor which brings the voltage down to the accepted range.

The Mini uses neither of the pins.

Hi, so are we saying the 330 ohms resistor might be the issue then, hence when iv wired to pin 8 there isn't enough go go juice for pin 16 to force RGB mode..My jag just isn't sending enough Vs...

Hence the out of sync flashing! I'm getting on my tvs ? And why when I solder direct to pin 16 RGB mode works and flashing stops because it now as enough power to switch to RGB mode ? ... I think I get it now...

But why doesn't the mini see the scart rgb unless pin 16 is connected, now confused again ?

[Fudoh]

But why doesn't the mini see the scart rgb unless pin 16 is connected, now confused again ?

that's more likely an impedance issue.

You tried adjusting the RGB sync level over the full range (that's a setting on the Mini that's used to compensate for weak or strong RGB signals) ??

[BuckoA51]

But why doesn't the mini see the scart rgb unless pin 16 is connected

Usually that's because the sync cleaner isn't getting the voltage and therefore not working, are you sure you bypassed it?

[keropi]

I have a question about a PAL 1CHIP SNES: does the onboard S-RGB amp offers a C-CYNC signal on pin 18? Can this be wired directly to the AV port instead of Composite and thus have a better output? Or is this only applicable to NTSC units?

[Stephen g]

But why doesn't the mini see the scart rgb unless pin 16 is connected, now confused again ?

that's more likely an impedance issue.

You tried adjusting the RGB sync level over the full range (that's a setting on the Mini that's used to compensate for weak or strong RGB signals) ??

Yes I believe your right as iv now removed pin 16 and adjusted the sync range and it's working with out it..I will ask tho, what ground should I use for RGB ?

I think this whole 8 pin 16 pin as got me all confused... the diagram didn't help mind..

Thanks for your input, iv learnt sone thing tonight...

[Stephen g]

But why doesn't the mini see the scart rgb unless pin 16 is connected

Usually that's because the sync cleaner isn't getting the voltage and therefore not working, are you sure you bypassed it?

Iv finally figured it out now, the penny as dropped as they say... For tv I need pin 16 connected to force RGB mode, for the mini On the other hand I have to find the correct sync level...

Also by bypass i mean i modded the jap connector that came with the mini to suit euro.. Only issue iv noticed is the dreaded jailbars... But I believe using 5B for sync will correct this ?

Thanks for your input too tho, you guys have really pushed me into the right direction, I will be making a new rgb scart from what iv learnt, using 5b.

[Xranger60]

What adapter are you using? Female Component to Male D-Terminal?

If you just plan on only using a RGB signal with the PS2 then a JP-21 cable is fine. Just make sure your are using a JP-21 pin to 8 pin adapter. If you plan on using RGB for other systems as well then I recommend using Scart as Scart switches are easier to find.

I actually have this: http://solarisjapan.com/collections/mic ... ble-female

as well as a PS2 JP-21 cable. I should have disclosed that when I asked the question, sorry. The reason I ask is that up to this point, I had been using the JP-21 cable, but I bought the component adapter because I plan on using a wii to play Gamecube games through component cables. But I tried using the PS2 through component cables yesterday. For whatever reason, the picture looks darker and the saturation is a bit different- could be me, but slightly oversaturated and a bit more blurry then through the JP-21 cable.

I suppose my general question is, in your experiences, have you observed better picture quality using a JP-21 cable or using component cables, with a PS2 at 480i?

Thanks again.

[BuckoA51]

But I believe using 5B for sync will correct this ?

My Jaguar is using clean sync and the picture is perfect on XRGB3 and my Mini, no hint of jailbars.

I suppose my general question is, in your experiences, have you observed better picture quality using a JP-21 cable or using component cables, with a PS2 at 480i?

RGB cable is noticeably better.

[Stephen g]

But I believe using 5B for sync will correct this ?

My Jaguar is using clean sync and the picture is perfect on XRGB3 and my Mini, no hint of jailbars.

I suppose my general question is, in your experiences, have you observed better picture quality using a JP-21 cable or using component cables, with a PS2 at 480i?

RGB cable is noticeably better.

Thanks for the advice, but what pin do I use as RGB ground, no one as answered that yet for me ?

Also when you have to manually change the sync level what setting should I start on, as it's a pain trying to change it when the screen keeps goin off ?

[austin532]

What adapter are you using? Female Component to Male D-Terminal?

If you just plan on only using a RGB signal with the PS2 then a JP-21 cable is fine. Just make sure your are using a JP-21 pin to 8 pin adapter. If you plan on using RGB for other systems as well then I recommend using Scart as Scart switches are easier to find.

I actually have this: http://solarisjapan.com/collections/mic ... ble-female

as well as a PS2 JP-21 cable. I should have disclosed that when I asked the question, sorry. The reason I ask is that up to this point, I had been using the JP-21 cable, but I bought the component adapter because I plan on using a wii to play Gamecube games through component cables. But I tried using the PS2 through component cables yesterday. For whatever reason, the picture looks darker and the saturation is a bit different- could be me, but slightly oversaturated and a bit more blurry then through the JP-21 cable.

I suppose my general question is, in your experiences, have you observed better picture quality using a JP-21 cable or using component cables, with a PS2 at 480i?

Thanks again.

Yes, that's the adapter I'm talking about.

Yes, JP-21 or Scart RGB gives a much better picture compared to component which is like you said usually oversaturated and not as sharp. Plus using PS2 component on the Mini is gives off a lot of noise interference.

[mickcris]

But I believe using 5B for sync will correct this ?

My Jaguar is using clean sync and the picture is perfect on XRGB3 and my Mini, no hint of jailbars.

I suppose my general question is, in your experiences, have you observed better picture quality using a JP-21 cable or using component cables, with a PS2 at 480i?

RGB cable is noticeably better.

Thanks for the advice, but what pin do I use as RGB ground, no one as answered that yet for me ?

Also when you have to manually change the sync level what setting should I start on, as it's a pain trying to change it when the screen keeps goin off ?

See here:
http://www.leadsdirect.co.uk/technical- ... rt-wiring/
R Ground - 13
G Ground - 9
B Ground - 5
But you probably want to connect them all like here:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... htm#jaguar

I am using the original atari cable and dont have to change sync setting at all. I am not sure if its using csync or composite video as sync. The only thing I had to do to it was put the resister between 8 and 16 as it had one the syncs (h or v but i forget which exactly) connected to pin 16 and it was causing an issue with my switch. If you are using cysnc, I would think it should work with the sync setting at the default of 9. It works on mine at 9.

[TheShadowRunner]

How does the mini react when fed component via the RGB21 input?
Exemple a PS2 connected via SCART, with "Component Video out" set to "Y Cb/Pb Cr/Pr".
I guess it just doesn't work... or could it be taking 480p from there by detecting a component signal?

[darcagn]

How does the mini react when fed component via the RGB21 input?
Exemple a PS2 connected via SCART, with "Component Video out" set to "Y Cb/Pb Cr/Pr".
I guess it just doesn't work... or could it be taking 480p from there by detecting a component signal?

As far as I know it just won't work as there would be no sync signal.

[Stephen g]

@mickcris


Thanks I thought there was some special RGB ground I didn't know about...

All good, got there in the end... It's that diagram which as caused all the issues for me with the wire on pin 8 which really needs to be pin 16 otherwise you could get issues with some tvs not fully switching into RGB...which looks like was happening to me...

Regarding ground... Is it really all that important to have all those grounds connected, I'm sure iv read one or 2 grounds is fine ?

Regards

[Fudoh]

Is it really all that important to have all those grounds connected

no, you usually just need one. Sometimes it's advisable to use video and audio ground seperately.

The problem is the use of adapters (e.g. Scart to Mini Din on the Mini). You never know on which pins the adapter expects ground, so it's *safer* to crossconnect all the ground pins within the Scart header. 17 and 18 are the most commonly used ground pins on Scart.

[Stephen g]

Is it really all that important to have all those grounds connected

no, you usually just need one. Sometimes it's advisable to use video and audio ground seperately.

The problem is the use of adapters (e.g. Scart to Mini Din on the Mini). You never know on which pins the adapter expects ground, so it's *safer* to crossconnect all the ground pins within the Scart header. 17 and 18 are the most commonly used ground pins on Scart.

Thanks, so if the incorrect ground is wired with the mini, would it fail to work or would you get interference etc ?

Cheers

[Fudoh]

usually no picture, just sound.

[Stephen g]

usually no picture, just sound.

Ok great thanks,

Can I ask regarding the jailbars effect is that the idea behind the euro mini adapter with the built in sync cleaner to stop them ? Sorry about all these questions I'm just trying to fully understand it all..

[Shuco13]

How does the mini react when fed component via the RGB21 input?
Exemple a PS2 connected via SCART, with "Component Video out" set to "Y Cb/Pb Cr/Pr".
I guess it just doesn't work... or could it be taking 480p from there by detecting a component signal?

As far as I know it just won't work as there would be no sync signal.

So why do people mod their Component cables to VGA and combine the signal to RGB then?