XRGB-mini Framemeister

[eightbitminiboss]

I guess I never noticed it when watching darcagn's Castlevania III video, but now that I looked for it, it's there. I suppose it's the same situation with the Genesis and the colored dots at the bottom. But what I'd like to know is, is there a setting to fix this on the XRGB-mini without sacrificing fidelity or do I fix it in After Effects?

There's a retro mode in the mini that puts a frame around the overscan area if that's what you want.

[Pasky]

What's it called and where can you enable it?

[austin532]

What's it called and where can you enable it?

It actually is called Retro_Mode and be found in the Visual_Set options. You have 3 options. L1, L2, and L3. L2 is probably what you want to use as it covers up the top and bottom of the screen. Enabling Retro Mode also darkens the sides of the image to give it that old TV look.

My only complaint with Retro Mode is that if you have scanlines enabled they don't go all the way through the darkened areas and just looks bad.

[darcagn]

Yeah, it's typical for weird stuff to show up on the edges in NES games while scrolling, usually it happens on the left/right sides though, but it can happen at the top. I just ignore it on the NES, though the Genesis is a little bit more annoying about it IMO.

[CkRtech]

I think a better way would probably be to change the ZOOM level.

[darcagn]

I think a better way would probably be to change the ZOOM level.

Only problem with that is that if scanlines are turned on in ZOOM mode, it zooms into the scanlines as well, instead of overlaying the scanlines after it zooms in.

[CkRtech]

Wish you could see my facepalm right now. Although...I guess it might add processing time if it didn't do that?

[RGB32E]

I think a better way would probably be to change the ZOOM level.

Only problem with that is that if scanlines are turned on in ZOOM mode, it zooms into the scanlines as well, instead of overlaying the scanlines after it zooms in.

Wish you could see my facepalm right now. Although...I guess it might add processing time if it didn't do that?

1080p, Zoom 90, with scanlines doesn't have any of the described issues (evenly spaced scanlines). People complain about 1080p scanlines, yet they best represent aperture grille style scanlines when pixel luminence is above ~50%.

Notice how scanlines are much smaller around pixels that are brighter (and vice versa):


Fagin's BVM

[Legion]

1080p, Zoom 90, with scanlines doesn't have any of the described issues (evenly spaced scanlines). People complain about 1080p scanlines, yet they best represent aperture grille style scanlines when pixel luminence is above ~50%.

Notice how scanlines are much smaller around pixels that are brighter (and vice versa):
Fagin's BVM

That looks really good. Can you tell me what your scanline settings are?

[Konsolkongen]

The last picture is of a Sony BVM monitor. A professional CRT monitor which is as good as it possibly gets.

1080p and Zoom@90 has way too thin scanlines, and doesn't look anywhere near as good. And you might experience overscan in the top and bottom of the screen.

Looks incredible sharp though. Micomsoft should look into adding thicker scanlines. Then I would consider using it.

[jessiewonka]

Has anyone heard of any upcoming XRGB-mini firmware updates that will let you throw a game in tate mode right-side-up? I recently read Fudoh's yokotate page (http://yokotate.hazard-city.de), but setting up another computer just for this rotation seems a bit much with so many other pieces in play that could potentially handle it.

My situation is probably like many others: I have a huge plasma tv that I can't rotate, and no further room for a PVM, meaning many games in yoko mode don't look as great as they could which is makin me sad.

[RGB32E]

1080p and Zoom@90 has way too thin scanlines, and doesn't look anywhere near as good. And you might experience overscan in the top and bottom of the screen.

Looks incredible sharp though. Micomsoft should look into adding thicker scanlines. Then I would consider using it.

I don't think any pseudo-CRT look will ever truly please you! You don't appear to acknowledge that CRT scanline thickness is proportional to the intensity of a given pixel! Regardless of 1080p or 720p scanlined output the effect will never match that of a CRT on a flat panel as the thickness is fixed. I merely suggest that a 1080p scanline effect is a solution, and is akin to full intensity "CRT pixels", instead of all pixels represented as half intensity.

I would speculate that a more powerful scaling solution on a UHD display might achieve a closer to CRT scanline effect, where the size of a scaled pixel could vary based off of intensity.

[Konsolkongen]

Has anyone heard of any upcoming XRGB-mini firmware updates that will let you throw a game in tate mode right-side-up? I recently read Fudoh's yokotate page (http://yokotate.hazard-city.de), but setting up another computer just for this rotation seems a bit much with so many other pieces in play that could potentially handle it.

My situation is probably like many others: I have a huge plasma tv that I can't rotate, and no further room for a PVM, meaning many games in yoko mode don't look as great as they could which is makin me sad.

A possible solution would be to wallmount your TV with a mount that rotates. This is the only reason why my TV is wallmounted

I don't think any pseudo-CRT look will ever truly please you! You don't appear to acknowledge that CRT scanline thickness is proportional to the intensity of a given pixel! Regardless of 1080p or 720p scanlined output the effect will never match that of a CRT on a flat panel as the thickness is fixed. I merely suggest that a 1080p scanline effect is a solution, and is akin to full intensity "CRT pixels", instead of all pixels represented as half intensity.

I would speculate that a more powerful scaling solution on a UHD display might achieve a closer to CRT scanline effect, where the size of a scaled pixel could vary based off of intensity.

I actually do get what you're saying about the scanlines varying in thickness on a CRT. I just think that the XRGB in 720p with thicker scanlines is a nicer compromise than the thinner in 1080p I really like the sharpness in 1080p so I hope they will add some thicker scanlines in Zoom mode, and in Smart_X2

[Lord of Pirates]

Has anyone heard of any upcoming XRGB-mini firmware updates that will let you throw a game in tate mode right-side-up? I recently read Fudoh's yokotate page (http://yokotate.hazard-city.de), but setting up another computer just for this rotation seems a bit much with so many other pieces in play that could potentially handle it.

My situation is probably like many others: I have a huge plasma tv that I can't rotate, and no further room for a PVM, meaning many games in yoko mode don't look as great as they could which is makin me sad.

These are your other hardware options, as far as I know:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38531
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48297

[jessiewonka]

A possible solution would be to wallmount your TV with a mount that rotates. This is the only reason why my TV is wallmounted

I should've mentioned I can't do that -- I'm renting an apartment in a 90 year old building so I just can't trust the walls with such a heavy and expensive tv. Even in yoko games are larger than most LCDs, though obviously in tate would be beautiful and huge.

[Konsolkongen]

That's a shame I hope you do manage to find an alternative solution

[Fudoh]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38531
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48297

or you use a capture card like the PCEXHDCAP (internal) or the XCAPTURE-1 (external) to rotate your Framemeister's output.

[jessiewonka]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=38531
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48297

or you use a capture card like the PCEXHDCAP (internal) or the XCAPTURE-1 (external) to rotate your Framemeister's output.

Great follow up on the yokotatism. Boy, even the rebranded Xtreme4vs is $1,600 on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/SUPER-PC-Xtreme4v ... B007SONQ48). That's a lot of money to flip an image. And it sounds like I'd need a PC to configure it. I love that you're doing this research though. What do you do for a living?

For now I'll just suffer yoko and maybe consider getting a small LCD or PVM I could drop into the living room when playing.

[jessiewonka]

Actually on the topic of a small LCD -- any suggestions? This would be used exclusively for tate shmups. My current plasma is far too big to move, so this LCD would either lean against the console shelf next to it, or preferably have a little stand to keep it upright in vertical position.

[Fudoh]

Actually on the topic of a small LCD -- any suggestions?

Dell U2414 (24") with IPS or Asus 279Q (27") via VA panel. Extremely fast, good picture, rotatable and not too expensive.

[Xyga]

Actually on the topic of a small LCD -- any suggestions?

Dell U2414 (24") with IPS or Asus 279Q (27") via VA panel. Extremely fast, good picture, rotatable and not too expensive.

I'd add the following;

Samsung S24D390HL and S27D390H (IPS 24" & 27" non-rotatable but arguably even better performers than the Dells)
Samsung S24D590PL and S27D590P (same as above but more stylish + 1 additional HMDI)
Iiyama X2483HSU-B1 and X2783HSU-B1 (AMVA+ 24" & 27", first non-rotatable but second is, even better performers than Asus VN279Q)

Can't think of better 1080p60Hz monitors at the moment.
The lack of VESA mounting on the Samsungs will be a big turnoff for many people though...

[Pasky]

Does anyone else have this flicker issue? You can notice the flickering in the middle of the screen towards the right on the grey/green area. This happens on my Genesis, Turbo Duo, and Super nintendo/NES on any solid color screen. I know it isnt the capture card because it happens on my TV. I also know it isn't the cables because 3 different sets of cables have it.

I use composite (clean) sync on all 3.

I got the default power adapter for the framemeister. Is it poor power filtering perhaps?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r9jajw5zh7qi9y6/flicker.avi

[Fudoh]

This happens on my Genesis, Turbo Duo, and Super nintendo/NES on any solid color screen.

and will be mostly gone once you adjust the A/D level setting on the Mini.

[Pasky]

Any recommended settings? At work atm, cannot test.

[Konsolkongen]

Any recommended settings? At work atm, cannot test.

Try 140. It will make the image brighter so be sure to adjust the brighness setting accordingly. You can improve the flickering but you can never get rid of it completely. You may even find that you are just pushing the problem to a different shade of gray or another color. The Low Pass Filter on the XRGB-mini is really bad unfortunately

[Pasky]

I see, I was concerned maybe mine had a problem. Seems to be a common issue however. Is it a particular color line that causes this? Poor power filtering? Anyone have an idea.

[Konsolkongen]

You mean RGB colorline? No it happens with component too.

[austin532]

Hey RGB32E, how are you getting nice scanlines with FF1? 1080p with Zoom 90 just causes them to be very thin and spaced to far apart for me.

[eightbitminiboss]

So I became aware that some games have issues on 1CHIPs like Demon's Crest and Disney's Aladdin showing glitches at the top of the screen. I was going through my ROMs and this is showing up on The Firemen (and to some extent Demon's Crest's title screen).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFtDblY ... e=youtu.be

Is that because of how the 1CHIP is wired for sync differently?

Edit: Might as well post the Demon's Crest video, but that's not a sync issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Lm0mhOhtzM

[Pasky]

Different encoders, different sync level.