XRGB-mini Framemeister

[airs]

With RGB-modable NTSC N64 units the classic transistor RGB amps seem to have the edge over the THS mods.

Using Luma instead of composite video usually solves all the composite video related problems (dropouts, interference, moving wave patterns) while still providing a black/white picture when used on a RGB-incompatible Scart socket. Using C-Sync instead has usually no further advantage.

Cutting the composite line directly on the N64's output (or any other Nintendo system for that matter) and replacing it with a luma (or sync signal), solves all those 12V/CSync problems as well.

On my japanese RGB modded N64 I have to use a RGB cable without capacitors. If you want to use a cable with capacitors (e.g. from your NTSC SNES) then you have adapt your RGB amp accordingly.

Is this the classic transistor RGB amp mod you're referring to? http://baku.homeunix.net/RGB/Nintendo64/Nintendo64.html

Does a more modern version exist?

[RGB32E]

With RGB-modable NTSC N64 units the classic transistor RGB amps seem to have the edge over the THS mods.

Where did you get this idea?! I've found the THS7314 to work the best of any of the analog RGB mods for the N64s. It's the cleanest and sharpest.

You going to state that the NESRGB mod is inferior to RGB PPU modding as well?

[Konsolkongen]

The transistor amp is indeed a bit better than the THS amp. At least on the CPU-03 model I have.

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/sh ... post747576

[austin532]

the Saturn, PS1, N64 era

I doubt that you'll find settings to accomodate your Saturn/Playstation and N64 at the same time. For the N64 I totally prefer 1080p output without scanlines over 720p with scanlines.


If you find your image too sharp, just adjust the H_SCALER setting. 5 is the sharpest setting. Try 10 or 11.

2D games on the other hand from that era look pretty good but not perfect using the recommended settings.

you keep saying that, but you don't say what you dislike.

Yes, the N64 tends to look better due to it's smoother polys but I have yet to venture into the RGB world. I know it's a damn shame. I think most games look better in 1080P, not just N64 games. Only problem is no proper scanlines. (Please fix this Micomsoft )

I've tried adjusting the H_Scaler which does help a lot but the PS1 dithering/checkerboard filter is still obvious unless I adjust it all the way to 14 or 15 which by that point is too blurry to look at. It appears to be most obvious in Konami games like MGS, Silent Hill, and Castlevania Chronicles. Will using RGB cables help eliminate it? If so, do you recommend using RGB for the PS2 as well or should I just stick to component?

What I mean by pretty good is that 2D games look near arcade perfect. The only flaws being they are not quite as crisp and vibrant as they are on a CRT arcade monitor.

[akumajo]

http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/XRGBminiV1.11E.zip

[grumly54]

http://www.micomsoft.co.jp/XRGBminiV1.11E.zip

What's new for it ?

[blizzz]

What's new for it ?

Korean language support and something about Classic mode now working after a reboot.

[venchia3]

Korean language support and something about Classic mode now working after a reboot.

with "classic mode" they mean the "retro mode" or something else?

[TheRetromancer]

Goddamn it! Ordered the Framemeister, it came on Friday, but I was at work, and DHL isn't open Saturday. I have to wait until Monday to get it. Stupid delivery confirmation.

[EvilAsh]

I finally got my mini (DHL tried to deliver to the wrong house). I had it held in Philly because I got nervous someone who has no idea what this is would get their hands on it. I'm loving it so far. I've hooked up my NES, Mega Drive, SNES, Genesis, Saturn, & N64 with great results. I'm using SCART on the Genesis/Saturn/SNES, Composite on NES, & S video on N64.

I purchased a Wii2HDMI adapter and got it in the mail yesterday. I was hoping I could use the Framemeister to take my 480p Wii signal and add scan lines to my PC engine emulator on it. No matter what I do I can't get any scan lines added to my HDMI output. I tried NES & SNES emulators and had the same result. Tried to switch to 480P output and 720p & I even switched the Wii's output to 480i hoping that would do something. Does anyone know if the component to D-Terminal adapter would yield the same results?

One other problem I'm running into is my SNES had a very feint thick translucent white line straight down the center of the screen. It's barely noticeable. I figures it was my SCART cable but when I switched to S-Video cables the line is even more noticeable. I'm wondering if it's my TV or SNES. I haven't noticed this line with any other consoles.

Thanks!

[EvilAsh]

Goddamn it! Ordered the Framemeister, it came on Friday, but I was at work, and DHL isn't open Saturday. I have to wait until Monday to get it. Stupid delivery confirmation.

I left a note for them to deliver it and my tracking said delivery attempted, note left. I received no note at all. When I called the operator came to the assumption that the driver tried to deliver to the wrong house. I had to have them hold it in Philly (I'm in Delaware) in fear that they would deliver to the wrong house again.

[SGGG2]

really depends on the kind of deinterlacing you're looking for. The non-interpolated field scaling mode of the XRGB-3 is about the ONLY thing I'm missing in the Mini. I would love to have that mode back.

This is main reason I haven't switched over from the XRGB-3. Sometimes, I prefer this mode over running games in 480p/VGA over B0 or any of my others scalers (Optoma HD3000, Gefen VGA to DVI Scaler Plus), mostly with PS2 titles.

[blizzz]

One other problem I'm running into is my SNES had a very feint thick translucent white line straight down the center of the screen. It's barely noticeable. I figures it was my SCART cable but when I switched to S-Video cables the line is even more noticeable. I'm wondering if it's my TV or SNES. I haven't noticed this line with any other consoles.

It's a general problem with SNES consoles. It's more visible on some consoles and on a few consoles it doesn't exist. There's a simple mod that might fix it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGVn9sRoV-g

Goddamn it! Ordered the Framemeister, it came on Friday, but I was at work, and DHL isn't open Saturday. I have to wait until Monday to get it. Stupid delivery confirmation.

I know that feeling. My Framemeister is currently somewhere between Japan and Germany. The worst part is that it will be stuck in customs for several days and then I will have to go to their office (which has ridiculous opening times) and pay 19% tax. I don't mind the tax, but I hate that it adds basically a whole week to the delivery time.

[EvilAsh]

It's a general problem with SNES consoles. It's more visible on some consoles and on a few consoles it doesn't exist. There's a simple mod that might fix it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGVn9sRoV-g

Awesome! Thanks. I've only soldered once when I modded my Saturn a few months ago. May have to dust off that solder iron.

I'm reading that a 480P HDMI signal (like I'm using with the Wii) doesn't let the framemeister add scanlines. Now I'm wondering if the Componet adapter to D-Terminal will give me that ability.

[airs]

Received Otaku's 3DO RGB Mod Kit on Friday and finished the mod yesterday with a friend's help. The solder points were insane but somehow we got it right on the first try. Results with the mini (480i of course):

[mickcris]

It's a general problem with SNES consoles. It's more visible on some consoles and on a few consoles it doesn't exist. There's a simple mod that might fix it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGVn9sRoV-g

Awesome! Thanks. I've only soldered once when I modded my Saturn a few months ago. May have to dust off that solder iron.

I'm reading that a 480P HDMI signal (like I'm using with the Wii) doesn't let the framemeister add scanlines. Now I'm wondering if the Componet adapter to D-Terminal will give me that ability.

i think the hdmi input is just a passthrough. I think you can get scanlines on d terminal input.

[TheRetromancer]

One other problem I'm running into is my SNES had a very feint thick translucent white line straight down the center of the screen. It's barely noticeable. I figures it was my SCART cable but when I switched to S-Video cables the line is even more noticeable. I'm wondering if it's my TV or SNES. I haven't noticed this line with any other consoles.

Thanks!

The white vertical bar is actually a well-known and fairly well-documented problem with almost all SNES motherboard revisions. It's caused by spikes and drops in power draw in the system, except in the 1CHIP and Mini SNES models.

Thankfully, it is fixable. There are two options to fixing the problem:

1) You can bypass the internal RGB signal using the famed N64 THS7314-based amp. This, in my opinion, produces a slightly worse video signal, but eliminates the bar completely.

2) You can add two capacitors (RECOMMENDED). On the 7805 regulator, attach the + leg of a polarized capacitor with a value of at least 220µf (past 470µf is not helpful, and can actually cause glitches thanks to power draw) to the 'O', or 'output' leg, and attach the - leg to 'G' or 'ground'. Then add another cap (same value range: 220µf-470µf) on the video encoder. If you have an S-ENC, S-ENC B, BA6592F, or BA6594AF encoder, the - leg must attach to leg 2, and the + leg must attach to leg 5. However, if you have the BA6595F, the BA6596F, the S-RGB, or S-RGB A chip, then the - leg of the cap must be attached to leg 16, and the + leg must go on pin 19. (Note that it is okay to attach the legs of the cap to some wire and have the cap out of the way, but I wouldn't recommend having wire longer than 4" on the cap legs. In this application, I don't think it will actually hurt anything, but it's a good habit to keep all wiring short.)

[mickcris]

Received Otaku's 3DO RGB Mod Kit on Friday and finished the mod yesterday with a friend's help. The solder points were insane but somehow we got it right on the first try. Results with the mini (480i of course):

Looks great! I have the kit waiting to be installed. Just haven't gotten to it yet. Was maybe going to wait till I get the usb drive replacement and do both at the same time.

[austin532]

It's a general problem with SNES consoles. It's more visible on some consoles and on a few consoles it doesn't exist. There's a simple mod that might fix it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGVn9sRoV-g

Awesome! Thanks. I've only soldered once when I modded my Saturn a few months ago. May have to dust off that solder iron.

I'm reading that a 480P HDMI signal (like I'm using with the Wii) doesn't let the framemeister add scanlines. Now I'm wondering if the Componet adapter to D-Terminal will give me that ability.

i think the hdmi input is just a passthrough. I think you can get scanlines on d terminal input.

You can get scanlines to appear by setting the input signal to 240 or 480 through HDMI or D-Terminal. If you want scanlines through HDMI you need to turn off the HDMI Direct Passthrough in the Options.

[EvilAsh]

You can get scanlines to appear by setting the input signal to 240 or 480 through HDMI or D-Terminal. If you want scanlines through HDMI you need to turn off the HDMI Direct Passthrough in the Options.

I thought I did this and just attempted again since I saw you post. It's still won't produce scan lines. Meister Mode is also on. The wii (when connected with component or HDMI) will only output 480i or 480p signal. I was hoping I could change it to 240p but unfortunately it isn't an option. I think I've tried everything. I just ordered the component to d terminal from solaris so hopefully that will get me the scanlines when I use emulators.

[domoe]

You can get scanlines to appear by setting the input signal to 240 or 480 through HDMI or D-Terminal. If you want scanlines through HDMI you need to turn off the HDMI Direct Passthrough in the Options.

I thought I did this and just attempted again since I saw you post. It's still won't produce scan lines. Meister Mode is also on. The wii (when connected with component or HDMI) will only output 480i or 480p signal. I was hoping I could change it to 240p but unfortunately it isn't an option. I think I've tried everything. I just ordered the component to d terminal from solaris so hopefully that will get me the scanlines when I use emulators.

Not sure about the HDMI adapter, but scanlines do work with Component through D-Terminal. Just make sure you have your settings right. Set your Wii to 480i, then go into the video settings of the emulator and choose 'original' for rendering and 'automatic' for video mode. When entering or exiting the emulator's menu, you will experience video drops, as the mini has to resync because of the input signal change from 480i to 240p and vice versa.

[TheRetromancer]

Finally got my Framemeister. Re-wired the XRGB-RGB connector to use Euro Scart (an easy fix taking maybe 10 minutes), and I'm enjoying it very much.

A question occurs to me, though - I've only tested my RGB N64 on it so far, but does anyone else find that 480p Meister output looks better than either 720p or 1080p?

[Fudoh]

480p output is a bit of the soft side. It's for example softer than the XRGB-3's 480p output. If you like this, you should still use 720p and just increase the H_SCALER setting to a "softer" setting.

And you shouldn't use Meister mode at all. Bad filtering, bad colors, bad deinterlacing (if your source is 480i). Game1/2 and Meister should be off limits.

[Chacranajxy]

So, I take it that the issue with the Framemeister taking forever to switch between 240p and 480i never got fixed? I still haven't upgraded from my XRGB3 solely because of that...

I'm guessing it's something that can't just be fixed via software, so I suppose I'll be waiting for the XRGB-5.

[austin532]

Nope. It still take a good 5-6 seconds every time it switches from Progressive to Interlaced. This is also my biggest complaint about the Mini so far. I hope it can be fixed with an update or at least reduced. I doubt it though as it's probably hardware related.

I don't think the new XRGB will be numbered 5 if there is no 4 yet .

[jessiewonka]

Success! Yossi's modded Kenzei arrived today and now works with my XRGB-mini adapter with the sync stripper.

My next issue though is audio. Questions:

1) I can't get audio out of the Kenzei's L/R ports, only from the Hanzo.

2) Pulling audio out of the Hanzo to the mini, I'm only getting one audio channel.

3) Is there a suggested place I should plug the audio? a) mini front, b) mini back, c) avoid mini and go directly into AV receiver.

[jessiewonka]

Success! Yossi's modded Kenzei arrived today and now works with my XRGB-mini adapter with the sync stripper.

My next issue though is audio. Questions:

1) I can't get audio out of the Kenzei's L/R ports, only from the Hanzo.

2) Pulling audio out of the Hanzo to the mini, I'm only getting one audio channel.

3) Is there a suggested place I should plug the audio? a) mini front, b) mini back, c) avoid mini and go directly into AV receiver.

Gentlemen, I'm an idiot. It never occurred to me that the audio would also connect Hanzo > Kenzei. As before, I'll leave this here in case there are others like me.

[Xan]

Is the 59.27 Hz thing on modded PAL PS1s very noticeable? Frankly all these years I never noticed stutter in NTSC games at all, but I always used CRTs. Is it more of a problem when using scalers?

Sometimes additional info isn't always for the best, because now I wouldn't mind a NTSC unit...

[slk486]

The crt just matches the timing, so there is no issue. On scalers it's one of those things you may not notice, but when you do, you can't unsee it. My advice is to stop looking for it Ignorance is bliss.

[Fudoh]

I think there's a bug somewhere related to that - at least to some degree. In general the Framemeister will try to match the output refresh rate to the input rate. On a MVS for example (59.15Hz) this works, but most TVs will introduce a slight stutter. On some NTSC/PAL combinations (PAL machines to modded to 60Hz) this doesn't work and there's an additional stutter introduced internally. No idea why and honestly no way to test it, since I don't own any modded PAL machines.

PAL SNES running a NTSC game in 60Hz for example. This is perfectly fine on all CRTs and all other processors I know. Still causing problems on the Mini.