Holy Smokes! Look at the price of MUSHA go!

[Squire Grooktook]

On normal, it's boring and overly long like a lot of Compile games. On hardest though, the game is an under-rated and excellent.

Truth. Lunatic difficulty's suicide bullets improve SA immensely. Succulla demonstrates. The second-highest difficulty is good too. It has slow rather than fast suicide bullets, which can lead to some interesting situations. I've a soft spot for both these Alestes and Compile in general, but it's only SA I'd recommend in pure shooter terms, and only then because of its suicide bullet modes.

I find Musha absurdly slow-paced until stage 3 or so, and only really engaging by 5, but the entire production from the title screen onward is blazing hot nerd porn for my eternally rigid MD boner so I'd never be without my copy. Just seeing Toaplan's logo and the parallax canyon landscape brightens my day. If you've blown all your cash on hookers and charlie, stick to fappin 2 teh ROMZ! Fire Shark/SameSameSame and Elemental Master are much better and cheaper MD verts. Phelios MD is trash indeed, solid engine but direly slow, easy and repetitive.

SUPER INTERESTING FACT: The term "Metallic Uniframe Super Hybrid Armor" is actually in the JP manual! It's not some dumbass localisation thing, wow!

Yup, gotta agree.

For me, the problem with Musha is the same as SA on normal: When you're fully powered up, everything dies so fast that nothing makes an impression. Each stage is just one long cruise where nothing much happens. Aesthetically though, the game is pretty great with the whole "heavy metal feudal Japan mecha assault" theme going on. Though some of the colors in the stages are a bit too dark for my tastes, and I don't think the ost has anything else quite as great as the first stage theme.

Overall I think I'd say Musha is a good shmup but not a great one.

[Kollision]

Also, I can't stand when people say that a game or something well-known in it is overrated. A lot of people really like it. It's not overrated, you just have the uncommon opinion. Example = M.U.S.H.A.'s soundtrack.

yeah an opinion
I can stand people hailing it as the second coming of christ, I just disagree with that

[Xyga]

MUSHA is just fantastic for a pure early 90's shmup joy ride.
Several popular shmups from that era are like that and I think most people play those purely for pleasure.

Shit I still play Thunder Force III from time to time because it's so much fun. Who cares if it's objectively inferior to IV ?
Do people only play games for challenge ? Or play only games they compared to other and judged superior ?

[LordHypnos]

I was not super impressed by Musha, personally, and I thought the bullet visibility was dodgy, but I couldn't stay interested enough to keep going to the parts which I am to understand are better. Also was playing in an emulator, and didn't spend very much time on it, so I could easily have missed something. The music was good, but I think there are better examples of Genesis metal in the TF games and Elemental Master.
For all it's flaws (power up dodging), I think I prefer Fire Shark, as far as Genesis verts go, and it's not too expensive. Maybe Elemental Master, too, but I mostly like that one for it's atmosphere, I think; The music, too, of course.

[BIL]

Phelios isn't very good, no. I wouldn't call it trash, but it is on the extreme side of mediocre.

Yeah I did overdo it a bit there It's not without some appeal. It's frustrating how it starts out really well, mowing down lines of skeletons and dogfighting with dragons, only to gradually decline into those awful stages where you waft along dealing with the same obstacle (skeledragon, rock chucker, rolling sphere, etc) ad nauseum. Ultimately didn't think it was worth keeping around. Besides there being so many better MD shooters, there's also Namco Museum 5 + Encore on PS1 (arcade Dragon Spirit + Saber, which play a lot closer to AC Phelios than the MD game ever does).

I think the final straw was the game admonishing me to "be patient" while trying to skip the ending for the second loop.

Shit I still play Thunder Force III from time to time because it's so much fun. Who cares if it's objectively inferior to IV ?
Do people only play games for challenge ? Or play only games they compared to other and judged superior ?

I would actually say TFIII is exceptionally good at what it does, and just as essential as TFIV. It and Elemental Master are paradigmatic foot to the floor joyride blasters, something Tecno Soft had a gift for (see also Hyper Duel and, at its best points, Blast Wind). They tend to hand the player immense firepower, then proceed to deploy enemies, obstacles and environmental hazards so rapidly and from so many angles that, even if dominance is never contested as fiercely as in harder shooters, maintaining it is still a huge rush. This in addition to airtight handling, rich visuals and rocking soundtracks. Milder stuff has its place in shooting connoisseurship.

[MrOldSchoolCool]

Also, I can't stand when people say that a game or something well-known in it is overrated. A lot of people really like it. It's not overrated, you just have the uncommon opinion. Example = M.U.S.H.A.'s soundtrack.

yeah an opinion
I can stand people hailing it as the second coming of christ, I just disagree with that

Fair Enough. I suppose it's easier to think an opinion is a bit too strong when the opinion is SO strong

I do think that MUSHA's soundtrack is very important for the Genesis. I've played it on a HD Model 1 hooked up with Stereo Sound and people always say "I never knew the Genesis could sound so good". Of course, the Genesis has some other soundtracks that can do the same thing, but I find MUSHA always does the job.

The pace of soundtrack calms down a bit after the intro and stage 1 (I think this works well for the pacing of the game overall), and then I think it's Stage 4 where it kicks it back up again and you just think "FUCK yeah". hahah

Even my girlfriend who could give a crap was like "whoa, what is that?" on stage 4 or whichever stage it was.

[MrOldSchoolCool]

MUSHA is just fantastic for a pure early 90's shmup joy ride.
Several popular shmups from that era are like that and I think most people play those purely for pleasure.

Shit I still play Thunder Force III from time to time because it's so much fun. Who cares if it's objectively inferior to IV ?
Do people only play games for challenge ? Or play only games they compared to other and judged superior ?

I totally agree. I think 16-bit shmups are definitely less about the challenge.

[Austin]

Shit I still play Thunder Force III from time to time because it's so much fun. Who cares if it's objectively inferior to IV ?Do people only play games for challenge ? Or play only games they compared to other and judged superior ?

It's a "To each their own" scenario. Personally, I feel dirty when I play Thunderforce III. I have such a hard time going back to this particular game and I just don't have much fun with it. It just feels average to me in comparison to part IV, but again, it's to each their own--if people enjoy it, then that's great. I wish I could, haha!

Like you mentioned, from this era of gaming I play shmups purely for pleasure. Scoring seems to be somewhat irrelevant with most non-arcade ports of this era, so I'm in it to soak up the environment, kick-ass soundtracks, and great visual effects, all tightly knit into one amazing package (none of which, asides from maybe some cool graphical effects, really "clicks" with me in TFIII). MUSHA does this for me, likewise with Thunder Force IV. To be fair though, I can't think of too many other Genesis shmups that really "get me" in the same way though as those two games do. I think they are both (along with Lords of Thunder on the PCE and Sega CD) the high points of the genre from the 16-bit generation.

[MrOldSchoolCool]

"Like you mentioned, from this era of gaming I play shmups purely for pleasure. Scoring seems to be somewhat irrelevant with most non-arcade ports of this era, so I'm in it to soak up the environment, kick-ass soundtracks, and great visual effects, all tightly knit into one amazing package (none of which, asides from maybe some cool graphical effects, really "clicks" with me in TFIII). MUSHA does this for me, likewise with Thunder Force IV. To be fair though, I can't think of too many other Genesis shmups that really "get me" in the same way though as those two games do. I think they are both (along with Lords of Thunder on the PCE and Sega CD) the high points of the genre from the 16-bit generation. "

Those are literally like my exact thoughts word for word. What do you think of Spriggan on PCE CD? I have that game just barely out of that category.

[Austin]

What do you think of Spriggan on PCE CD? I have that game just barely out of that category.

I have never played it (although I have played the second one, which is completely different from what I can tell). Videos of it look great though. I just recently picked up a PCE Super CD attachment so I can play PCE CD/SCDs again, so I am aiming to finally try that one for the first time soon, hopefully in the coming months.

[Despatche]

The collectors' market isn't really concerned about playing the games they buy, they just want to hoard them, often hoping that they will increase further in price in the future. I know that some serious Neo-Geo collectors only ever play on ports and emulators for fear of damaging their carts with insertion marks.

this whole collector thing would actually make sense if the games weren't already deteriorating no matter where you put them

well, sort of. people really need to preserve boxes and manuals and stuff and keep them as nice as they can for as long as they can, because at the very least we need scans and pictures of carts and so on for future reference

Is it that good? It's part of the same series as Super Aleste no? I got Aleste recently on SFC, not bad but not overly thrilled with it. A bit boring really.

if you don't like super, you probably won't like musha. super at least has meaningful difficulties and makes killing things fun

Honestly, excluding Thunder Force IV at the very top, it's probably as good as any other 16-bit shmup there is. 16-bit shooters just aren't as good as games that came after. Sure, they have a unique feel that draws me to them (love the crunchy explosion noises, Genesis sound chip). However, I can't help but think of how much better later shmups are while playing them.

this is a gross misunderstanding of what stuff like musha and thunder force represent. the reason why "later shmups" are better is because later shmups are based on arcade games, not built ground up for "casuals" like nearly every console shmup ever is

musha and such are the tyrians and the... god, just pick one of those crappy android or steam or xbla shmups, there are so many. thing is, they were treated as royalty back then, so they turn out to be a lot better than tyrian and so on. musha, like most compile games, is not well-paced and not at all meaningful. absolutely nothing in those games have any fucking point, you just hold fire and move left and right a lot for a whole fucking hour. god, honestly i wonder if it's worse than tyrian.

i highly suggest you play the arcade phelios; i wouldn't be surprised if the md conversion is rubbish. though what bil is saying about phelios md sounds like the entirety of musha so idk

people are supposed to play games for challenge, that's what "game" means. that means a lot of console games are pretty poorly-designed because their purpose is to avoid challenge, often having retard-easy everything and throwaway scoring numbers. but musha and co break through a certain boundary and become anti-challenge

[MrOldSchoolCool]

^^ I'll let somebody else take that one. You don't seem like the type of guy who would back down from your point of view.

[Xyga]

people are supposed to play games for challenge, that's what "game" means. that means a lot of console games are pretty poorly-designed because their purpose is to avoid challenge, often having retard-easy everything and throwaway scoring numbers. but musha and co break through a certain boundary and become anti-challenge

IcyCalm, get out of that body !

[Limbrooke]

gO~! gO~! Robo Aleste, for great justice!

[Squire Grooktook]

people are supposed to play games for challenge, that's what "game" means.

Not really. You can play a game for a sense of exploration, role playing, immersion, etc. There is no set in stone law that says games must or should be played for challenge, at least not one that applies to everyone.

Other than that, I agree with you about MUSHA, though maybe a little less harsh. There are parts of the game that are fun, but overall it's just too poorly balanced and paced.

[gameoverDude]

What do you think of Spriggan on PCE CD? I have that game just barely out of that category.

I have never played it (although I have played the second one, which is completely different from what I can tell). Videos of it look great though. I just recently picked up a PCE Super CD attachment so I can play PCE CD/SCDs again, so I am aiming to finally try that one for the first time soon, hopefully in the coming months.

I love it. The weapon mixing system is pretty nice. Difficulty of Normal is a tad easy (partially since weapon capsules can be sacrificed to use as bombs), so you may want to start on Hard. Beside the usual score attack Caravan mode, it also has Time Attack (how fast you can get 1,000,000 pts).

[evil_ash_xero]

I actually like the JP cover better. But the US version has a manlier cover, so it's easy to see why some prefer it. And it's all engulfed in flames, which is pretty neat.

But this is the one of the oldest games that I bought, and still have. And it's in NM shape. So, I'm keeping it.
Got this back when it came out, so I can't part with it. I'm tempted to sell this, and buy the JP one though.