HARDEST shmup ever!

[God]

Gradius III gets my vote. (for what it's worth; I don't play much bullet hell)

It starts out hard then goes crazy quickly. It has a beginners mode that's only 3 levels long, with maybe a lower rank, and even then that shit is a nightmare. I'd say even the beginners mode is harder than many other whole gradius games.

That list has Raiden III just a little behind Gradius III and I'd be surprised if it belonged there. I haven't beaten either, but I can do decently at RIII and make it a few stages in at least. Maybe it's just as hard to 1CC, but having a few forgiving stages at the beginning really go a long way toward making a game feel easy!

[Patashu]

Gradius III gets my vote. (for what it's worth; I don't play much bullet hell)

It starts out hard then goes crazy quickly. It has a beginners mode that's only 3 levels long, with maybe a lower rank, and even then that shit is a nightmare. I'd say even the beginners mode is harder than many other whole gradius games.

That list has Raiden III just a little behind Gradius III and I'd be surprised if it belonged there. I haven't beaten either, but I can do decently at RIII and make it a few stages in at least. Maybe it's just as hard to 1CC, but having a few forgiving stages at the beginning really go a long way toward making a game feel easy!

The list is based on the difficulty of achieving that goal (for games where both 1-ALL and 2-ALL makes sense they're listed twice, for example), not on 'how easy it feels'.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

I didn't even notice a difference in the beginner mode. I think you're supposed to keep your speedups when you die on it, but when that doesn't happen, it felt the same.

Not that I've ever 1cc'd a Gradius game(not even G III's 3 stage mode cause I always did Technical course, though I got to stage 6 in that)


But if you think Gradius III is tough, don't bother with Gradius IV. That is way harder.

[mastermx]

Gradius 3 with Wait Off. It's not impossible(check out pegboys clear in the 1cc thread ) , but it's insanely difficult.

Didn't Gradius III tank at the arcades because players just found it too hard?

I wouldn't be too surprised.

[Pretas]

Gradius III AC's Beginner course was added at the last minute as a band-aid to address loketest complaints about the difficulty.

[Squire Grooktook]

But if you think Gradius III is tough, don't bother with Gradius IV. That is way harder.

My understanding of that one is it's harder in a lot of ways, but there's less stupid cheap bullshit.

[pegboy]

I didn't even notice a difference in the beginner mode. I think you're supposed to keep your speedups when you die on it, but when that doesn't happen, it felt the same.

Not that I've ever 1cc'd a Gradius game(not even G III's 3 stage mode cause I always did Technical course, though I got to stage 6 in that)

But if you think Gradius III is tough, don't bother with Gradius IV. That is way harder.

I disagree. I've done 1CC Gradius III & IV. III is definitely much harder. IV took me far less time to 1CC, and there is nothing nearly as ridiculous as the cube stage in IV. The final stage in III is quite ridiculous as well, the checkpoints are completely silly. Also III throws a bunch of crap at you that will kill you nearly 100% of the time if you don't know whats coming.

The beginning of the "Mechanical Base" section comes to mind, there are enemy hatches that you need to position yourself properly to kill or they will annihilate you. There is no way of knowing that the first time you go through there. Dying at that point and guess, what? Go do the boss rush all over again. It's completely insane how they designed that game.

In IV, you always have a chance to recover, the hardest checkpoint is even doable (I pulled it off in the run I posted). There are many, many checkpoints in III that are pretty much game over unless you are an absolute master at the game. IV is also quite a bit shorter than III, and the hard stuff is all in the middle of the game instead of at the end.

The one thing you have going for you in III is that it is very generous with extends, and you can built up a ton of them by the time you get to the cube stage, where you will definitely need them. In IV, you get far fewer lives, but the rank also drops on each death, so recover is easier than in III where you get no such reprieve.

[DEL]

That's good going pegboy . 1CCing both Gradius III & IV is no easy task (even if its just for sheer length of endurance). I wouldn't put them as hardest ever games though, its just that they require a lot of learning.

Patashu wrote:

I thought of a good third place for my list: Muchi Muchi Pork Manpuku 2-ALL!
Manpuku combines a ridiculous torrent of suicide bullets from almost everything in the game (including suicide circles, splurging 'lasers' of bullets, etc) with the over-the-top patterns of loop 2 (especially miniboss and post-miniboss sections with such dense bullets as to feel almost impossible to safely clear!). Your only saving grace is that you can get score extends indefinitely, but no no one has ever cleared this.
The record is 2-4 by DEL. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DoSUrbqMFo
The only reason why I would not put it higher than third despite having never been cleared ever is that this gameplay mode gets very little attention compared to Futari Ultra and DDP DoJ DL, so it's possible that it would have easier strats/a clear by now if it were more popular.

I'm still working on it. Managed to scrape to the ST2-4 Boss on Friday night at Stunfest.
I think you're right that no-one in the World has yet done the 1CC 2-ALL on Pork's ver1.01 Manpuku Mode, and as you say - its probably more down to the game's lack of popularity.
The 2nd loop actually does have some Bosses and MidBosses with no-gap spreads, starting from ST2-2. So its a bit of a war of attrition with your lives. For this reason, I look to carry 4 or the max 5 lives into Manpuku's 2nd loop to give myself a fighting chance.

[Patashu]

I'm still working on it. Managed to scrape to the ST2-4 Boss on Friday night at Stunfest.

Any uploaded recording of it?

[DEL]

Patashu wrote:

Any uploaded recording of it?

Naah, it was done on 1 Player and not Score Attack. My live run on the streamed stage was a lot worse, due to nerves of course. Icarus counted 300+ people in the audience.
I will continue playing on Xbox Live to get to ST2-5 and then let you know.
Cheers.

[pegboy]

I don't think it's fair to compare a 2-loop clear to another game's 1-loop clear when determining hardest game. Gradius III's second loop with wait off seems impossible, and I doubt anyone has actually cleared it under that condition. I'd love to see one of the top players try to do it.

[CloudyMusic]

I don't think it's fair to compare a 2-loop clear to another game's 1-loop clear when determining hardest game. Gradius III's second loop with wait off seems impossible, and I doubt anyone has actually cleared it under that condition. I'd love to see one of the top players try to do it.

Gradius is always a weird case, because most(?) of those games loop essentially forever.

[Patashu]

I don't think it's fair to compare a 2-loop clear to another game's 1-loop clear when determining hardest game. Gradius III's second loop with wait off seems impossible, and I doubt anyone has actually cleared it under that condition. I'd love to see one of the top players try to do it.

Gradius is always a weird case, because most(?) of those games loop essentially forever.

There is a limit to the madness, though, in Gradius III: http://www.gamestone.co.uk/gradius/foru ... php?t=3432
If you're on Very Hard, by Loop 4 Stage 2 the rank has hit its peak and will never rise (or lower!) again under any conditions.
Hard, Loop 4 stage 4. Normal, Loop 4 stage 6.
On the other hand, since powerups increase your rank, if you never die and play on Very Hard, loop 3 is already max rank.
Now if only there was a way to start at a later loop. It would make an awesome TAS!

[copy-paster]

I agree with the above posts, Gradius III Arcade is so hard that Konami pulled off their cabs after few days of release. And yes beating in higher loops with wait off seems impossible and anyone who can clear that may would deservedly be the King of all gamers if actually managed to 1CC or 1LC if you dare.

The second one maybe R-Type 2 arcade since I can't get pass stage 3 until now and the stage 2 boss was fucking tough too. Or the Famicom game Recca, that lightning speed, trippy graphics, 40+ enemies and bullets onscreen w/o slowdown...... I wonder how Yagawa programmed this perfectly since Fami had tons of limitations

[ProjectAKo]

I check this japanese site to get a good idea of difficulty of a lot of different shmups you don't often hear about http://www.wikihouse.com/stg/index.php? ... 0%EC%CD%F7

Some games are only listed as 1 loops so stuff like Gradius 3 is way down there, and it only has games available in arcades it seems. According to it:

Code: Select all

45 - (Hardest tier)
 Dodonpachi Dai Ou Jou White Label (2 loops)

44 - 
 Mushihimesama Futari (Ultra mode)
 Parodius Da (2 loops)
 Detana Twinbee (2 loops)

43 - 
 Ketsui (Ura 2 loops)
 Argus (2 loops)
 Omega Fighter (2 loops)
 Game Tengoku (2 loops)

42 - 
 Mushihimesama (Ultra mode)
 Sengoku Blade (2 loops)
 Valtric (1 loop area 1-4)

41 -
 Twin Eagle

And so on. There's explanations in japanese if you click some of the names, and also some videos on niconico.

[Captain]

Cho aniki.

[ArmoredCore]

Dragon Blaze's manic level is too much for me.

[juonryu2nd]

Dragonforce

[_rm_]

What do you guys think about Sengeki Striker?

Only played it once and has been sitting on the shelf ever since

[trap15]

It's an amazing game with a great scoring system and I think more people should play it.

JP version, obviously. Asia version is the dumbest troll.

[Satan]

Gradius 3 for me.

[Xyga]

+1
I could never (and will never) get so far in the game but after seeing some absolutely scary replays I have to agree that Gradius III would be the best candidate for the 'hardest shmup ever' title.

[chempop]

What do you guys think about Sengeki Striker?

Only played it once and has been sitting on the shelf ever since

Daioh>>Shienryu>>>>>>>>Sengeki Striker

It had potential but too much went wrong. I do like those purple lasers you fire though.

[Squire Grooktook]

I'm not quite getting the arguments in favor of Arcade Gradius III here.

I don't know if people are talking about loop 20 or impossible dip switch settings, etc. but a lot of people seem to have 1-alled it. The same can't be said of stuff like Mushihimesama Futari Ultra 1.01 or Muchi Muchi Pork Manpuku Mode, or Saidaoujou Inabachi, etc. which have had legions of "obsessed Japanese lunatics" playing them for quite some time.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the difficulty of older shmups, but unless I'm missing something with Gradius III, I don't really see how this is a viable argument.

[_rm_]

What do you guys think about Sengeki Striker?

Only played it once and has been sitting on the shelf ever since

Daioh>>Shienryu>>>>>>>>Sengeki Striker

It had potential but too much went wrong. I do like those purple lasers you fire though.

I'm not talking about quality, just difficulty. As i said i've only tried it once but seemed like the most difficult thing ever, at least worst than Gradius III.

But i guess the problem is related to game design, sometimes you can't even see what's hitting you.

PS- I really need to get Daioh

[popnmusic]

Without a doubt Mushihimesama futari 1.5 Ultra mode

[Lord Satori]

Without a doubt Mushihimesama futari 1.01 Ultra mode

ftfy

[popnmusic]

Never play futari 1.0 sorry..but I guess it is hard too!

[Plasmo]

Has anyone ever cleared Fever SOS with the TLB using the Uo Poko cat?

[Damocles]

Has anyone ever cleared Fever SOS with the TLB using the Uo Poko cat?

Didn't Venom do that some years ago?