XRGB-mini Framemeister

[arovane]

What Megadrive SCART cable and SCART to mini din 8 cables are you using? Console version? http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... m#megamstr

I'm using this one: http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 1497.l2649
And the scart from the Megadrive is a RGB one made by retrocables, it is RGB and works with my Megadrive PAL on the Framemeister.
So I guess it's not a cable problem.

Does your MD on it's own work ? The 32X can screw with the signal impendance and the only thing to two make most MCD/MD/32X combos work properly on the XRGBs is a LM1881 in line with the sync signal.

I've tried with the 32X plugged, and without. Same problem. No problem on a regular CRT though.
And with Mega CD games it's even worse, the Framemeister ultimately lose the signal...
But what's weird is that everything's ok with a Pal Megadrive in 50hz.

[arovane]

I've also tried the MD on it's own and it's a no go. Sync is lost almost right away. What can it be?? The MD is from Japan and very good condition, never had a problem with it before! I've also used 3 different Scart, with the same result...
Fuck it. I'll wait for my modded Multimega and cross fingers that it will run in 60hz without losing sync.
A bit disappointed there. I mean, isn't the framemeister made and sold for Japanese people? Shouldn't be any problem with a Japanese megadrive whatsoever.

[keropi]

^ you did try messing with the SYNC_LEVEL value of in the menu right?
I have found that difference consoles need different levels

[airs]

What Megadrive SCART cable and SCART to mini din 8 cables are you using? Console version? http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/ ... m#megamstr

I'm using this one: http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 1497.l2649
And the scart from the Megadrive is a RGB one made by retrocables, it is RGB and works with my Megadrive PAL on the Framemeister.
So I guess it's not a cable problem.

Does your MD on it's own work ? The 32X can screw with the signal impendance and the only thing to two make most MCD/MD/32X combos work properly on the XRGBs is a LM1881 in line with the sync signal.

I've tried with the 32X plugged, and without. Same problem. No problem on a regular CRT though.
And with Mega CD games it's even worse, the Framemeister ultimately lose the signal...
But what's weird is that everything's ok with a Pal Megadrive in 50hz.

What version is the console that works and the console that doesn't work? I'm using a model 1 Genesis, 32x and model 2 Sega CD with the same SCART to mini din 8 adapter as you, but mine has an LM1881 in it and works just fine.

[arovane]

^ you did try messing with the SYNC_LEVEL value of in the menu right?
I have found that difference consoles need different levels

Yes I did. but I found out with the Megadrive that if I go higher or lower than 9 in sync value then it gets even worse.
Or, should I change the value and restart in order for it to work maybe... But then how could I know which value is best for MD?

One other thing: I found out that I completely lose the signal if I plug an automatic powered multi scart adapter in between. You know, in order to plug different systems without having to switch the scarts... Buuut, no, doesn't work.

So I figures that maybe my newly acquired adapter for Euro SCART to XRGB Mini 8 pin (http://cgi.ebay.fr/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 1497.l2649) might not be powerful enough. If that is the case, then it might also be the reason why MD and MCD won't sync correctly. Should I buy another one with LM1881N sync stripper?

JC, this is tougher than I thought.

[arovane]

What version is the console that works and the console that doesn't work? I'm using a model 1 Genesis, 32x and model 2 Sega CD with the same SCART to mini din 8 adapter as you, but mine has an LM1881 in it and works just fine.

I use a MD ver.1 from Japan. same with MCD and 32X, all ver.1, all from Japan.
Right, I don't have LM1881 inside the scart adapter, that might be the issue.

[airs]

Perhaps...here's a tutorial you could use to add/test a LM1881 to your cable: http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/composite-syn ... er-lm1881/

By the way, I believe RCA will soon be making a new version of the cable that is externally powered.

Edit: FYI someone else's MD issue solved with LM1881: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=48046

[marqs]

What version is the console that works and the console that doesn't work? I'm using a model 1 Genesis, 32x and model 2 Sega CD with the same SCART to mini din 8 adapter as you, but mine has an LM1881 in it and works just fine.

I use a MD ver.1 from Japan. same with MCD and 32X, all ver.1, all from Japan.
Right, I don't have LM1881 inside the scart adapter, that might be the issue.

You could also try using composite sync, which should be directly available from the DIN connector. I've had no need for SYNC_LEVEL adjustments with my consoles after switching to either filtered composite video (0.3Vpp sync) or raw sync (~5Vpp), though I can't say for MD since I don't have one. That will also remove the interference pattern which could show with some lower quality cables.

[austin532]

Not to go off topic but is it true that the 2005 Original XBOX models had crappy component output? I have one and whatever I do the XBOX just doesn't seem to look as good as it should in Progresive Mode.

Just wondering if anyone else had this same problem.

[TheRetromancer]

Not to go off topic but is it true that the 2005 Original XBOX models had crappy component output? I have one and whatever I do the XBOX just doesn't seem to look as good as it should in Progresive Mode.

Just wondering if anyone else had this same problem.

Original XBox Component quality is actually pretty good. The XBox actually supported up to 1080i over the component cables, but the quality was dependent upon the games themselves. Most XBox games are 480p, with only some of the later ones towards the console's end-of-life being capable of 720p and 1080i.

That being said, regardless of the game, component cables will make a tremendous difference to the visual quality of any game on the XBox, particularly when played on an HDTV.

Gotta love Steel Battalion!

[pyrotek85]

Gotta love Steel Battalion!

That's the one with the big custom cockpit controller right? Is it still pretty good without that? I had been interested in getting it someday but last I checked it was rather pricey for the whole kit.

[TheRetromancer]

Gotta love Steel Battalion!

That's the one with the big custom cockpit controller right? Is it still pretty good without that? I had been interested in getting it someday but last I checked it was rather pricey for the whole kit.

Yep. That's the one. And it is pretty expensive. I got lucky and found a CIB copy on eBay that the seller wanted $350 for, but hadn't sold in a while. First edition green buttons, too. I offered him something like $180 or so (I remember that I had to pay shipping, and I worked the offer so that including shipping made my total price an even $200). He accepted.

It's still one of my favourite games of all-time, and I made a custom cable connector that allows me to use the controller as a Windows USB gamepad. Mechwarrior Online has never been more awesome.

And yeah - the XBox component is still pretty good. I have a 46" Samsung HDTV, and I confess to getting a boner when playing older consoles in perfect HD on it. Some look fantastic (modded NES, SNES, GC, MS, Gen, Saturn, XBox), while others (N64, PS1, PS2)...not so much.

[Konsolkongen]

Gotta love Steel Battalion!

That's the one with the big custom cockpit controller right? Is it still pretty good without that? I had been interested in getting it someday but last I checked it was rather pricey for the whole kit.

The game can't be played without the controller. This may only have happened in Denmark, but I've seen a few people selling these for very little money. But of course most of the time they do cost around $200 or more.
I actually got mine for free from a friend It's a good game, but one that requires too much dedication for me. If you're into that sort of stuff you're gonna love it. Looks great too, even today.
I rarely used mine, and it took up a lot of space even packed in the box. I eventually traded mine for Mars Matrix on CPS2.

[austin532]

Not to go off topic but is it true that the 2005 Original XBOX models had crappy component output? I have one and whatever I do the XBOX just doesn't seem to look as good as it should in Progresive Mode.

Just wondering if anyone else had this same problem.

Original XBox Component quality is actually pretty good. The XBox actually supported up to 1080i over the component cables, but the quality was dependent upon the games themselves. Most XBox games are 480p, with only some of the later ones towards the console's end-of-life being capable of 720p and 1080i.

That being said, regardless of the game, component cables will make a tremendous difference to the visual quality of any game on the XBox, particularly when played on an HDTV.

I know that the games and cables being used make a big difference that's why I'm using Monster Componet cables which I got New for $5. I assume the official Microsoft cables produce the same quality?

Just as I thought all XBOX's manufactured from April 2004 to the end of production all used the XCalibur video encoder which has problems with 480p. Panzer Dragoon Orta and Gunvalkyrie won't even display correctly in 480p which is a real shame because PDO is one of the best looking XBOX games. Fable, Jet Set Radio Future, and I believe a few others only display 480p correctly if you set the Dashboard to 480p by pressing both Sticks and Trigger buttons. (Never knew you could do that )

So seeing as to how the XCalibur models have trouble with some games on top of 480p being the Mini's weak point it would explain why the picture doesn't look the best for other 480p games.

[Ed Oscuro]

One major difference between the Monster and Microsoft component boxes is that the Monster has some kind of asinine proprietary connector for the optical sound output. No big deal for me, but I went with the official Microsoft box anyway.

$180 Steel Battalion with original green buttons, sheesh!

[Fudoh]

Just as I thought all XBOX's manufactured from April 2004 to the end of production all used the XCalibur video encoder which has problems with 480p.

interesting enough: if you softmod the very same system and launch the game(s) from XBMC or the Evox dash, they suddently work fine in 480p.

[austin532]

Is it worth it to play 2 games? I wouldn't even know where to begin when it comes to modding.

[AkibaDecker]

Just a note that I'm no engineer or pro. With that....

Wanted to leave a note that I used the Dreamcast yesterday with my Hanzo VGA Box + Kenzei.

I know, it sounds like a lot but I'm okay with that:
Dreamcast -> Hanzo -> VGA Cable + RCA Audio Cables (L,R) -> Kenzei (with separate/purchased AC adapter) -> SCART Cable -> Female SCART to 8 pin adapter with sync booster -> XRGB-Mini

Very pleased with the results. Thank you again for making it, Beharius!!

If you're not concerned with upscaling and just want to play the DC on your HDMI based TV, you can just do:

Dreamcast -> Hanzo -> VGA cable + RCA Audio Cables -> Monoprice VGA-to-HDMI Converter -> HDMI TV

For the above configuration, however, you'll still need a RCA (L,R) adapter tht has a 3.5mm plug - that goes into the Monoprice converter. Also, people have reported mixed results. That may have to do with their televisions, I haven't looked into that enough. I used to run this setup, but of course you can't adjust the image at all. I wanted more control, so I went the Framemeister route That is why we're all here.....right? :p

If anyone wants pictures of the setup with Framemeister, let me know and I'll be happy to post them.

[airs]

Cool, I have a Hanzo/Kenzei on the way so its good to hear you're pleased with it. How would you compared the picture quality of the two setups you mentioned - the HDMI converter vs the Mini?

[AkibaDecker]

Cool, I have a Hanzo/Kenzei on the way so its good to hear you're pleased with it. How would you compared the picture quality of the two setups you mentioned - the HDMI converter vs the Mini?

The HDMI converter worked fine for me, and the image was solid/bright. Though, if I recall correctly, the image had a fixed contrast (darks were a tad strong). Since it's a fixed resolution, the Dreamcast gameplay is displayed fully (top and bottom with pillarboxing). With the Framemeister, it's nicer since we have more control over the image (quality, gamma, sharpness, color, overscan, etc). Also, the resolution is such that text is not "even" - with the Framemeister I switched over to the "Video" setting so that the display is smoothed out.

Speaking of which, on the Framemeister (for Dreamcast), does anyone have any proven settings so that the pixel aspect ratio looks correct? Or does the Dreamcast suffer the same uneven-ness that a PlayStation2 would exhibit?

[BuckoA51]

@Sixfortyfive:

I've always been curious about this claim.

you're right. The effect seen on those example shots isn't caused by the XRGB, but by a TV applying the wrong sampling resolution (640 vs 720 pixels in width). The XRGB-3's RGBs output (XRGB-2/2+ as well) is SMTPE 480p and *not* VESA 640x480. If you add a VGA to component transcoder to the XRGB-3 and then either use component on your TV (or add a component to HDMI converter), there won't be any "bad scaling" effects.

I suspected that might be the case as I simply don't see it on my setup here. I will have to update the wiki as that has been on there forever confusing people.

[Fudoh]

it usually doesn't present itself with "skinnier" columns of pixels, but with softer pixel columns or those shaky effects you see on the XRGB-3 menu. XRGB-3 -> VGA/Component transcoder ( optionally -> Component/HDMI ) -> TV has 100% stable menus.

[airs]

FYI for anyone in the USA ordering a Mini from Solaris Japan, the modified invoice option might be advisable - I just paid the DHL customs invoice - $16.83 including DHL "convenience" fee.

[austin532]

Just a note that I'm no engineer or pro. With that....

Wanted to leave a note that I used the Dreamcast yesterday with my Hanzo VGA Box + Kenzei.

I know, it sounds like a lot but I'm okay with that:
Dreamcast -> Hanzo -> VGA Cable + RCA Audio Cables (L,R) -> Kenzei (with separate/purchased AC adapter) -> SCART Cable -> Female SCART to 8 pin adapter with sync booster -> XRGB-Mini

Very pleased with the results. Thank you again for making it, Beharius!!

If you're not concerned with upscaling and just want to play the DC on your HDMI based TV, you can just do:

Dreamcast -> Hanzo -> VGA cable + RCA Audio Cables -> Monoprice VGA-to-HDMI Converter -> HDMI TV

For the above configuration, however, you'll still need a RCA (L,R) adapter tht has a 3.5mm plug - that goes into the Monoprice converter. Also, people have reported mixed results. That may have to do with their televisions, I haven't looked into that enough. I used to run this setup, but of course you can't adjust the image at all. I wanted more control, so I went the Framemeister route That is why we're all here.....right? :p

If anyone wants pictures of the setup with Framemeister, let me know and I'll be happy to post them.

Please do. I've been trying to figure out if using the DC on the Mini is worth the extra work. Can you do a game comparison between connecting straight to the TV with just VGA vs. using your DC Framemeister setup?

[BuckoA51]

That would depend if your TV correctly handles the Dreamcasts 720x480 signal or not. Some do most don't.

[opt2not]

Fudoh, has anyone confirmed this circuit works on the Gamecube?

I this exact circuit in a HD15 to MiniDin adapter on my Mini and it works with all sources I tried so far (no Gamecube though).

Cool, thanks again Fudoh. I just picked up the parts for that circuit you linked, and will give it a go this weekend. I'll post back with my findings.

[jessiewonka]

Just a note that I'm no engineer or pro. With that....

Wanted to leave a note that I used the Dreamcast yesterday with my Hanzo VGA Box + Kenzei.

I know, it sounds like a lot but I'm okay with that:
Dreamcast -> Hanzo -> VGA Cable + RCA Audio Cables (L,R) -> Kenzei (with separate/purchased AC adapter) -> SCART Cable -> Female SCART to 8 pin adapter with sync booster -> XRGB-Mini

Very pleased with the results. Thank you again for making it, Beharius!!

If you're not concerned with upscaling and just want to play the DC on your HDMI based TV, you can just do:

Dreamcast -> Hanzo -> VGA cable + RCA Audio Cables -> Monoprice VGA-to-HDMI Converter -> HDMI TV

For the above configuration, however, you'll still need a RCA (L,R) adapter tht has a 3.5mm plug - that goes into the Monoprice converter. Also, people have reported mixed results. That may have to do with their televisions, I haven't looked into that enough. I used to run this setup, but of course you can't adjust the image at all. I wanted more control, so I went the Framemeister route That is why we're all here.....right? :p

If anyone wants pictures of the setup with Framemeister, let me know and I'll be happy to post them.

Hello -- I have nearly the same setup:

Dreamcast -> Hanzo -> VGA Cable -> Kenzei -> SCART Cable -> Female SCART to 8 pin adapter with sync booster -> XRGB-Mini

Only at the moment I'm not using the AC adapter (should arrive Saturday). But unfortunately I'm getting no picture on my Panasonic TC-P55VT60. Initially I didn't think I needed the AC adapter, and both the Hanzo and Kenzei light up without it.

The Hanzo creator thinks it's my retro_console_accessories mini adapter, which has a sync stripper, though it's labeled as "sync booster" on eBay just like yours seems to. If the AC adapter doesn't work, I'm not sure if I should try to have them build me another mini adapter, or there's some other fix.

I'd like to keep the Kenzei/mini in the mix instead of going with your second option. And if I do get a new mini adapter, I'm unsure if it'll work with the existing 6 SCART cables they also made for my other consoles. And manually swapping adapters each time I play the DC seems frustrating.

[Fudoh]

just sent you a PM. You probably just have to sure that the LM1881 in your adapter gets enough power. If the Kenzei can't provide that (though I wonder, since it works on AkibaDecker's setup), you can do a simple mod the Kenzei by just using an external AC adapter, splitting the power and running +5V directly to the output pin 8 (which the LM1881 should use to get it's power).

[AkibaDecker]

If anyone wants pictures of the setup with Framemeister, let me know and I'll be happy to post them.

Please do. I've been trying to figure out if using the DC on the Mini is worth the extra work. Can you do a game comparison between connecting straight to the TV with just VGA vs. using your DC Framemeister setup?

Here are pictures of the setup. As expected, it's messy.

For all the images in this post, you have to click more than once to see the "original" size on imgur. Keep clicking to see the full size.



Also, a video (I was in a rush earlier today, sorry - it's awful because its in portrait mode, but you should get the point)... I mention retro_console_accessories but called them "retro game accessories" in the vid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN2QlZb11gA

You get glimpses of other consoles and games in the vid :p

I take it back - the Monoprice colors are very vivid, but the contrast is (still) strong, so some portions of the screen can be really dark.

Please pay attention ONLY to the way the XRGB-mini Framemeister is able to compensate for the otherwise standard "uneven-ness" that is present. I didn't spend too much time making all the controls on my DSLR manual (for a solid color/brightness comparison). Sorry, I would have captured the two with my Elgato Game Capture HD, but my PC isn't in the living room today -_-

Here is a comparison between the gamma/text. Of course, we can adjust Gamma and lots of other things with the Framemeister.


Closeup of a HUD:


You should load up the original size image to see the smoothing here:

Hello -- I have nearly the same setup:

Dreamcast -> Hanzo -> VGA Cable -> Kenzei -> SCART Cable -> Female SCART to 8 pin adapter with sync booster -> XRGB-Mini

Only at the moment I'm not using the AC adapter (should arrive Saturday). But unfortunately I'm getting no picture on my Panasonic TC-P55VT60. Initially I didn't think I needed the AC adapter, and both the Hanzo and Kenzei light up without it.

The Hanzo creator thinks it's my retro_console_accessories mini adapter, which has a sync stripper, though it's labeled as "sync booster" on eBay just like yours seems to. If the AC adapter doesn't work, I'm not sure if I should try to have them build me another mini adapter, or there's some other fix.

I'd like to keep the Kenzei/mini in the mix instead of going with your second option. And if I do get a new mini adapter, I'm unsure if it'll work with the existing 6 SCART cables they also made for my other consoles. And manually swapping adapters each time I play the DC seems frustrating.

Yes, switching is definitely an annoyance. I have a Super Famicom and some PlayStations (PS2 US, PS2 Japanese) which all use the 21-pin connector (NOT SCART). The Dreamcast is the exception.

[jessiewonka]

Here are pictures of the setup. As expected, it's messy.

Nice, thanks for sharing! How did you come up with the power solution for that mini adapter? I'd love to see a video of how you did that one! Couldn't you just use a mini adapter without the sync stripper?

Fudoh, do you know if he implemented the same solution you're suggesting?