XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Fudoh]

I'm 99.9% certain every plasma Panasonic made up until they quit has a DSub port

not for years. On their consumer plasma sets Panasonic phased out VGA inputs quite a few years ago.

[mistahsnart]

Not true: my VT50 does. Must be European sets that do not. My friends VT30 has one as well.

[cfx]

.

[Fudoh]

let's agree on the fact they fewer and fewer TVs have VGA. Sony phased it out two years ago. Panasonic plasmas are a thing of the past anyway

[Smashbro29]

Am I correct in understanding that a few pages back someone found an easier less contrived solution to hooking the DC into the mini while still retaining the ability to choose the best mode per game?

Are the results in on that?

What is H_Polarity and V_Polarity? They were off, turned them on, resynced and no changes.

Also while playing my Wii I noticed there's a .01hz difference.

[Fudoh]

Am I correct in understanding that a few pages back someone found an easier less contrived solution to hooking the DC into the mini while still retaining the ability to choose the best mode per game?

nothing new, no. If you got a 15/31khz switch on your VGA box you can always choose between classic RGB and VGA - depending on the game. You just need an add-on to your VGA to convert RGBHV to RGBs. UMSA, Kenzei, Extron RGB interface or a passive sync combiner circuit - your choice, but again - nothing new.

[BuckoA51]

What is "contrived" about buying a UMSA or a Kenzei?

H and V polarity only need changing if your display needs a different sync polarity. (Is this even applicable to HDMI any more??)

[mistahsnart]

You're still guessing, and you're still wrong. My pair of US Panasonic S30 models, 42" and 50" do not have VGA input.

Wow. Thanks? It's tones like this why I only browse this forum, and don't try to participate.

[Ed Oscuro]

Please be careful if you're going to say you're 99.9% sure of things. Having done my share to spread it, disinformation can be concretely damaging to people, and makes everybody's job a bit harder than it should be.

[austin532]

Has anyone gotten good looking scanlines to appear while in 1080p mode? 720p looks good for 240p games but looks a little soft for certain 480i/480p games.

[Konsolkongen]

Nope. Scanlines in 1080p doesn't work (I don't like them with "Zoom90" either, because it makes the top of the screen disappear even on 224p titles). If they could fix it they would have done so years ago.

[MMJuno]

From what I recall when I was initially playing around with 1080p over a year ago: you can use Smart x2 mode to get fairly decent scanlines in 1080p, but then you're trading it for the displayed screen size. So, that pretty much leaves 720p as the best option if you want to maximize screen usage with scanlines.

[Smashbro29]

What is "contrived" about buying a UMSA or a Kenzei?

H and V polarity only need changing if your display needs a different sync polarity. (Is this even applicable to HDMI any more??)

It might not be DC specifically but I had a whole really complex (for me anyhow) setup planned before I just didn't have the money to go through with it.

Am I correct in understanding that a few pages back someone found an easier less contrived solution to hooking the DC into the mini while still retaining the ability to choose the best mode per game?

nothing new, no. If you got a 15/31khz switch on your VGA box you can always choose between classic RGB and VGA - depending on the game. You just need an add-on to your VGA to convert RGBHV to RGBs. UMSA, Kenzei, Extron RGB interface or a passive sync combiner circuit - your choice, but again - nothing new.

Ok so I still gotta do all that. Other than the RGB interface I just don't have any more money to mod the box, get the new cables, etc etc so I've been really out of the loop.

Nope. Scanlines in 1080p doesn't work (I don't like them with "Zoom90" either, because it makes the top of the screen disappear even on 224p titles). If they could fix it they would have done so years ago.

So they made a device specifically to upscale 240p/480i maybe 480p + scanlines and failed to make sure that the mode most people would want (1080p +scanlines) worked? Why? I mean this just seems like they don't care.

Also I swear no matter what mode its in everything through component looks really saturated. In SSBB the floor of Green Hill Zone all looks like one color unless you stare hard enough. But other sources look great and I don't want to risk screwing them up while tweaking it for component.

[austin532]

From what I recall when I was initially playing around with 1080p over a year ago: you can use Smart x2 mode to get fairly decent scanlines in 1080p, but then you're trading it for the displayed screen size. So, that pretty much leaves 720p as the best option if you want to maximize screen usage with scanlines.

Yup. Already knew about getting scanlines for Smart X2. I don't mind the smaller screen size it's just that the scanlines are very faint and close together when using Smart X2 with 1080p.

After tweaking around with the settings I've noticed It's not easy to get that perfect CRT look. I've tried messing around with the H and V scalers to see if softening the image would help and while it sort of does with some games, other games look bad. Which do you guys prefer? A sharper picture with more detail and more jaggies/flaws or a softer picture with less detail and less jaggies/flaws?

[Konsolkongen]

So they made a device specifically to upscale 240p/480i maybe 480p + scanlines and failed to make sure that the mode most people would want (1080p +scanlines) worked? Why? I mean this just seems like they don't care.

The reason why 720p with scanlines works is pretty obvious when you think about it. Upscaling a 240p source to 720p is dead easy since it scales perfectly. Scaling 240p to 1080p is a lot harder to do right, which is why some lines are thicker in 1080p, thus giving us the uneven scanlines we all dislike. It might not be possible at all with the mini's hardware, that's my guess at least. Otherwise we would have seen a fix to this a long time ago. I mean, they added 50Hz support pretty quickly after the release, so it's not like they don't care

Hopefully XRGB4 will get everything right

Also I swear no matter what mode its in everything through component looks really saturated. In SSBB the floor of Green Hill Zone all looks like one color unless you stare hard enough. But other sources look great and I don't want to risk screwing them up while tweaking it for component.

What's the problem? The component input uses separate settings... Write down your current settings and try making some adjustments yourself. You could also use the settings I link to in my signature.

[juji82]

Not really related to Framemeister but.. I just received my new hdmi switch.

Anybody has it and can share thoughts?

[Smashbro29]

So they made a device specifically to upscale 240p/480i maybe 480p + scanlines and failed to make sure that the mode most people would want (1080p +scanlines) worked? Why? I mean this just seems like they don't care.

The reason why 720p with scanlines works is pretty obvious when you think about it. Upscaling a 240p source to 720p is dead easy since it scales perfectly. Scaling 240p to 1080p is a lot harder to do right, which is why some lines are thicker in 1080p, thus giving us the uneven scanlines we all dislike. It might not be possible at all with the mini's hardware, that's my guess at least. Otherwise we would have seen a fix to this a long time ago. I mean, they added 50Hz support pretty quickly after the release, so it's not like they don't care

Hopefully XRGB4 will get everything right

Also I swear no matter what mode its in everything through component looks really saturated. In SSBB the floor of Green Hill Zone all looks like one color unless you stare hard enough. But other sources look great and I don't want to risk screwing them up while tweaking it for component.

What's the problem? The component input uses separate settings... Write down your current settings and try making some adjustments yourself. You could also use the settings I link to in my signature.

You know I always find your posts enlightening. I hope they fix it in the new box too.

I'm gonna try your settings for component, though I did notice the resolution and scanlines stay consistent no matter which input I'm on which is probably what led me to believe all inputs share the same settings, you sure they're good for all component? Definitely an improvement. I'll edit in a screenshot for you.

[Konsolkongen]

Not sure about Wii since I don't have one anymore. They work well for PS2 and PSP though

[austin532]

Also I swear no matter what mode its in everything through component looks really saturated. In SSBB the floor of Green Hill Zone all looks like one color unless you stare hard enough. But other sources look great and I don't want to risk screwing them up while tweaking it for component.

I get the same problem with my TV displaying anything that is bright green. It's usually just a simple fix though by adjusting the color settings on your TV.

[austin532]

I've always wondered, is it true that some HDMI ports on a TV are faster than others? I have 3 ports. 1 is HDMI 1/DVI, another is HDMI 2, and the last is HDMI 3. I've tried the Frameister on all 3 and don't see any major differences if any. HDMI 1/DVI port might be a teensy bit faster but it could just be my imagination.

[Smashbro29]

Also I swear no matter what mode its in everything through component looks really saturated. In SSBB the floor of Green Hill Zone all looks like one color unless you stare hard enough. But other sources look great and I don't want to risk screwing them up while tweaking it for component.

I get the same problem with my TV displaying anything that is bright green. It's usually just a simple fix though by adjusting the color settings on your TV.

My screenshot is direct capture via an X-Capture 1. The goal is to have the base image look good.

[darcagn]

I've always wondered, is it true that some HDMI ports on a TV are faster than others? I have 3 ports. 1 is HDMI 1/DVI, another is HDMI 2, and the last is HDMI 3. I've tried the Frameister on all 3 and don't see any major differences if any. HDMI 1/DVI port might be a teensy bit faster but it could just be my imagination.

Yes, on a lot of TVs, ports labelled "PC" or "DVI" often have enhancement features disabled and thus low lag.

[RowanDDR]

So... 1080p is never going to be fixed, I imagine. So theres no way I'm buying this. What scaler can do 1080p properly (i.e. integer scaling with even scalines)? Main thing I'd use this for is SNES & N64.. anything else that works would be a bonus (Saturn, DC, Wii).

Thanks in advance.

[pyrotek85]

So... 1080p is never going to be fixed, I imagine. So theres no way I'm buying this. What scaler can do 1080p properly (i.e. integer scaling with even scalines)? Main thing I'd use this for is SNES & N64.. anything else that works would be a bonus (Saturn, DC, Wii).

Thanks in advance.

It's not that bad really. A 1080p monitor is just going to upscale the 720p input that it's receiving from the Mini. It's not like the process introduces a lot of lag or anything.

[ifog]

I just got my PC Engine DUO back after a preventive full recap and a RGB mod.

When I plug it on the RGB port of the xrgb-mini, picture looks great but there's some small crackling in the sound .
I don't get the crackling when listening on the headphone output of the console and I don't get the crackling when connecting the SCART cable directly to a TV (using the same cable but without going through the xrgb-mini).

I use the same RBG port with a Megadrive and arcade stuff without problem usually.

It's not a big deal as I will probably connect directly the headphone output of the console directly to the amp, but if you have any suggestion ?

[RowanDDR]

So... 1080p is never going to be fixed, I imagine. So theres no way I'm buying this. What scaler can do 1080p properly (i.e. integer scaling with even scalines)? Main thing I'd use this for is SNES & N64.. anything else that works would be a bonus (Saturn, DC, Wii).

Thanks in advance.

It's not that bad really. A 1080p monitor is just going to upscale the 720p input that it's receiving from the Mini. It's not like the process introduces a lot of lag or anything.

Thats setup is not for me. If I'm paying hundreds of pounds for an external scaler, I don't want to be using my TV's scaler for half the job, resulting in less than ideal results.

Bu thanks for the info!

[Konsolkongen]

So... 1080p is never going to be fixed, I imagine. So theres no way I'm buying this. What scaler can do 1080p properly (i.e. integer scaling with even scalines)? Main thing I'd use this for is SNES & N64.. anything else that works would be a bonus (Saturn, DC, Wii).

Thanks in advance.

No other scaler will add scanlines when scaling to HD resolutions. If your TV is half decent then it shouldn't be much of a problem as already stated, but I guess I can understand how you feel.

[Fudoh]

What scaler can do 1080p properly (i.e. integer scaling with even scalines)?

integer scaling isn't proper scaling. I don't see the point. What do you expect to achieve ? You want a 1080p signal with scanlines because your TV sucks and can't upscale 720p on it's own ? You can get a XRGB2/3 + DVDO combo to do that. Faster than a Framemeister anyway. More compatible to 240p/480i transitions as well.

[pyrotek85]

So... 1080p is never going to be fixed, I imagine. So theres no way I'm buying this. What scaler can do 1080p properly (i.e. integer scaling with even scalines)? Main thing I'd use this for is SNES & N64.. anything else that works would be a bonus (Saturn, DC, Wii).

Thanks in advance.

It's not that bad really. A 1080p monitor is just going to upscale the 720p input that it's receiving from the Mini. It's not like the process introduces a lot of lag or anything.

Thats setup is not for me. If I'm paying hundreds of pounds for an external scaler, I don't want to be using my TV's scaler for half the job, resulting in less than ideal results.

Bu thanks for the info!

Fair enough, but it's not like you're forced to buy extra equipment to make it work. You'd need a TV or monitor either way, what difference does it make if it's doing some of the work or not? The end result is quite good, provided the source is of course.

[ifog]

I just got my PC Engine DUO back after a preventive full recap and a RGB mod.

When I plug it on the RGB port of the xrgb-mini, picture looks great but there's some small crackling in the sound .
I don't get the crackling when listening on the headphone output of the console and I don't get the crackling when connecting the SCART cable directly to a TV (using the same cable but without going through the xrgb-mini).

I use the same RBG port with a Megadrive and arcade stuff without problem usually.

It's not a big deal as I will probably connect directly the headphone output of the console directly to the amp, but if you have any suggestion ?

And the answer is :
"Disable Dolby Pro Logic on the amp"