Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

[Squire Grooktook]

Does anyone else feel like Giga Wang has some somewhat cheap deaths in it? It might just be the tiny ass bullets, and divebombing enemies that are getting to me, but I have had a lot of instances where I don't know what killed me playing GW, so far.

Go play Darius II and then nothing else will ever feel cheap again ever.

This might actually be a good idea. I sometimes find myself feeling that fairly popular, mainstream games have cheap deaths. Like 2hu. I think it's mostly being too close to the sides of the screen in that case, though, and is fairly uncommon.

Eh, not really seeing it. Sometimes I don't realize why I died, but than I realized the bullet was headed right toward me and I failed to sight read it. That's my fault, not the game.

Like Ac said, cheap is just the game making you depend on luck or failing to telegraph things properly.

[LordHypnos]

Eh, not really seeing it. Sometimes I don't realize why I died, but than I realized the bullet was headed right toward me and I failed to sight read it. That's my fault, not the game.

Like Ac said, cheap is just the game making you depend on luck or failing to telegraph things properly.

Yeah, I definately would agree that I'm wrong about 2hu, I think that in actuality, those games are quite fair. In that case it was that an enemy spawned right next to my sprite, and it was not a very visible enemy (mostly black on a mostly black background IIRC), and so it took me one or two play throughs to realize that I needed to avoid the corner right there. On the other hand, staying in a corner on your first playthrough of a shmup is a bad idea that should be avoided, anyway, which is why I agree that I'm wrong there (That was stage 3 or something of Lotus Land Story, early in the stage, btw)

But with Giga Wing, I still am not sure what keeps killing me when I think that I'm avoiding bullets in a few spots, like Isha's first boss (lava stage), for example. It might be the bullet size (and hence visibility), though, as that has gotten to me a few times, that I have since realized were not cheap, and typically gets to me in older shmups.

It might help if I knew what was going on with that boss' lock on attacks, though. I don't get what it's doing there >_> I think it's trying to telegraph something to me.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

For what it's worth, the submarine in the lava stage is the hardest of the first three bosses IMO, especially if you play a character who has to deal with it as their 2nd/3rd stage. However, the lock-on attack in the second phase isn't that bad, it's just a matter of not getting hit by the spreadshots it fires during that. It locks on to you repeatedly when you're over the lava, and torpedoes come a second later in the lava (if you look, you can see them coming) to explode at the targeted locations, sending a blast of lava up to try and kill you. You can prevent it from locking on to you completely by staying on top of the submarine, it can only lock on during that attack when you move away from it over the lava.

See this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtU4d1VXFGU&t=3m55s

By staying as close to the submarine as possible, I prevent it from using the lockon torpedoes, and I can focus on simply dodging the spreads and aimed shots it fires (Stuck has the lava stage as a 1st stage too so it's the same difficulty patterns). This is a good example of an attack that can be made much easier when you know how it works (and how you can prevent it from working).

On the other hand, staying in a corner on your first playthrough of a shmup is a bad idea that should be avoided, anyway, which is why I agree that I'm wrong there (That was stage 3 or something of Lotus Land Story, early in the stage, btw)

Staying at the very edge of the screen in a shmup you've never played before is usually trouble as until you know whether or not it surprises you with enemies from directly behind you, you're putting yourself at risk of a collision if some do decide to spawn. For what it's worth, Cave games rarely if ever have enemies spawn from behind you where they're a collision hazard (Deathsmiles has warning symbols as enemies appear and you usually want to be in the middle of the screen anyways, Progear has one section in the entire game before the final boss where you need to remember to stay away from the side of the screen because popcorn surprise you from behind to try and ram you, and it's pretty easy when you know it's coming, literally that's all I can think of). It's similar to Lotus Land Story with Yuka's sudden giant beam of Master Spark deathyness, it's there to shock you the first time you play, but it's not really unfair to deal with when you know it's coming.

[LordHypnos]

[snipped]

Wow, thx man
Gonna have to try playing this again when I get a chance and keep that in mind (regarding the Giga Wing info) Sometimes it's weird the sorts of things that can serve to prevent particularly difficult patterns. I remember, when I was playing Gunbird 2 a lot, the first time I figured out that the little enemies right before the boss of the Italy stage don't fire when you're up really close to them (around point blank range). I felt pretty cool about that one

Yeah, I have observed that edges are not a fun place to be on your first runthrough of a shmup. I just need to keep it in mind a little better. I guess that I felt the laser beam thing was a little cheap the first time I faced that boss, but I quickly (probably same runthrough) realized that it was fairly well telegraphed. There's also a spot in LLS where enemies come behind, but with a warning that gives you plenty of time to react (Stage 4). I thought it was really cool (and well choreographed with the music) the first time I saw that pattern. haha.

[BulletMagnet]

It should probably also be noted that Giga Wing doesn't feature a "danmaku-size" hitbox despite the large amounts of bullets it can throw at you, it's more in Raizing territory, though you might've already known that.

[Squire Grooktook]

It should probably also be noted that Giga Wing doesn't feature a "danmaku-size" hitbox despite the large amounts of bullets it can throw at you, it's more in Raizing territory, though you might've already known that.

Really? I always thought it and Mars Matrix were pretty small.

Sometimes I really wish there was a hitbox compendium out there or something that cataloged precise pixel measurements of ships (and maybe bullets too). Not so much for gameplay but just would be interesting from a gameplay design perspective.

[LordHypnos]

Yeah, I think I know where Giga Wang's hitbox is. I definately know MM's. It's pretty small, but, at least for the blue ship, it's not such a small percentage of the whole sprite. Still pretty small. It's the white dot in the middle of the ship. I'm not sure what normal is, but MM's is very intuitive to me. Not sure if GW is quite as intuitive, but it's still pretty small. Possibly bigger, I'm not really sure, but I don't know that that's my main issue in GW.

Also, Bareknuckleroo's advice helped me a lot, but I've still got a long way to go. Those bullet fans are for some reason really hard, as is the giant orange bullets that move in a circular pattern after the lock-on attack section. I've made it past the boss, now, but only a few times, and never with no deaths. Made it to the second boss, as well once or twice.
Edit: but the apparent cheapness is basically gone, now.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Giga Wing's hitboxes are incredibly easy to spot. They're exactly where the yellow cockpits are located on the planes (yes, same size/shape). It's that easy. The bullets tend to be large, and unlike some games, you'll generally die if even the edge of the bullet scrapes your cockpit. It's still quite small, though, and you can definitely make some tight dodges.

As far as the spinny orange bullets go, just save a reflect to dodge them until you're used to how they move. Since the game gives no score based extends, you can ignore medals/score if you like and focus on reflect for pure defense until you are more comfortable. Or bomb it, the game gives you a good number of bombs considering you have a shield you can use as well.

[LordHypnos]

That's exactly where I thought the hitbox was in GW. Not sure I agree that the bullets are large though. They seem noticeably smaller than Mars Matrix, for example.
Yeah, bombing was how I got through the boss all the other times. hahaha. Also finally made it through the second boss... by bomb spamming. In fairness though I was on my last life and didn't want to mess around with taking chances. Then I made it to the train battle. Seems like the stages, themselves, aren't too bad, with the bosses being quite a bit harder. I'm sure I'll get the hang of it eventually, though, with some practice.
In other news, I made it to the 4th stage boss of Mars Matrix like twice, today, and broke 120,000,000,000 once, not that this is the thread to post about this in, or anything... Just feeling kind of happy about it.

Edit: realized you were talking about bullet hitboxes. Indeed they seem to be pixel perfect, as far as I can tell.

[mastermx]

What's the most solid shmup on a mobile device? Everything I have on my phone is way too easy with touch controls (cave). I'd like to have a challenge to play when I'm travelling? So, any suggestions?

[Patashu]

What's the most solid shmup on a mobile device? Everything I have on my phone is way too easy with touch controls (cave). I'd like to have a challenge to play when I'm travelling? So, any suggestions?

You can 1CC Mushihimesama/futari Ultra and 2-ALL Daioujou with touch controls? I mean, what are you going to find on iOS that's harder than that, anyway?

[mastermx]

Sorry forgot to note, I'm on android...

[Patashu]

Aaah that makes sense, all I mentioned are iOS only.

Have you tried Danmaku Unlimited 2 [Android]? https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... unlimited2

[mastermx]

Yes I have that. It's one of the few solid shooters on android. But after buying it on pc, I stick to the pc version because I can use arcade stick with it. But still it's a very good suggestion.

I've got R-Type, Danmaku death, and shogun, as well as some cave ports. I need to think over my question. Perhaps I'm just subconsciously complaining about touch controls.

Unless I find a way to connect an arcade stick to my phone, I won't be happy. But then, an arcade stick would defeat the purpose of a portable game.

I find touch controls to make shmups easy, especially the first 3 levels of a shooter, also the auto bomb on the cave games makes their games just less intense, especially when you can zip through the screen with a flick of a finger.

Edit: fixed question: what is the most challenging shooter on mobiles?

[LordHypnos]

I heard somewhere than the Cave iOS games also set the hardest difficulty to the level that would normally be "normal" difficulty, So that's most likely part of why they seem easier.

[mastermx]

Wow, is that true. That would explain why I find some of them so much easier.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

The in-game tutorials I'm pretty sure explain that 'Hell' difficulty corresponds with the original arcade game patterns, at least it does in Mushi and Futari. Playing on anything below Hell is easier than it normally is.

[Cagar]

My question is..

Is YOTSUBANE (Creator(s) of Crimzon Clover) actually a group of the same people who created the website Youtube?

First of all, the most obvious point: the names are awkwardly similiar



2nd, the full soundtrack for the game is available to listen on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCwt9vO ... AA0ACFACBF

Overall the game has this somehow Youtube color theme feel to it. The main ship for example, is pretty much white/grey & red, and the way how there are several cinematic moments in the game, make me feel that the developers had some weird obsession to videos & movies.

Thoughts, anyone?

[endoKarb]

My question is..

Is YOTSUBANE (Creator(s) of Crimzon Clover) actually a group of the same people who created the website Youtube?

lol

YOTSUBANE is non else than CLOVER-TAC (the superplayer)

[mastermx]

YOTSUBANE is non else than CLOVER-TAC (the superplayer)

Is this true? Any proof of this theory?

[Cagar]

It's just a rumor floating around.

[mastermx]

So there's no picture or sighting of the actual yotsubane to confirm this?

[Cagar]

So there's no picture or sighting of the actual yotsubane to confirm this?

Nope. I think that my theory is closer.

[mastermx]

Well if yotsubane is YouTube, that would mean that crimzon clover was created by the ilerminaty.

[nasty_wolverine]

ilerminaty

its spelt illuminorty

[BareKnuckleRoo]

How many levels are in the Bug Princess 2 BL Boss Rush mode? I had a fantastic run going, 5 lives and 2 bombs going into the 3rd Dan rank. The stages before have all been lower rank versions of Original, Maniac and God, and the last two ranks were super easy God patterns that I didn't need to bomb at all for, then along comes 3rd Dan rank and it's Original mode rank patterns at super high speed and density compared to normal, and with literally double the health they'd have normally, so patterns that'd end before they get too scary you suddenly have to deal with! I was tossing bombs at every attack from halfway through the stage 2 boss onwards, and I completely got demolished before even getting to Larsa.

It's not a difficulty increase, it's a goddamn wall of pain. The worst part is if you restart at that rank you have only 3 bombs and no extra lives, so to get extra lives you have to start from like the 7th Grade just to build up some extends. :L

[mastermx]

Here's some questions for all the shmuppers out there.

1. You're going for highscore/1cc and you mess up early in the run, do you restart?

2. I've heard many people hate on the term "shmup". STG and shooter are questionable too. Any ideas for a new term for shmups?

[trap15]

Don't restart pretty much ever. A messed up run can still be used as practice in some form, or you can try out new ideas because you're less attached to the run.

STG is fine. Shooter works too.

[nasty_wolverine]

Here's some questions for all the shmuppers out there.

1. You're going for highscore/1cc and you mess up early in the run, do you restart?

2. I've heard many people hate on the term "shmup". STG and shooter are questionable too. Any ideas for a new term for shmups?

1) if its in the first 1 min, restart. if on the second stage depends on the scale of the fuckup, by stage 3 just continue and see how far you can go.
2) hey, whatever floats your boat. calling it a different name doesnt make it a different game.

[Chaos Phoenixma]

I use STG, shooter, shooting game, shoot em up. I hate the term "shmup" so much and pretty much refuse to use it.