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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:18 am 


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Jonny2x4 wrote:
Very interesting stuff. Didn't know there could variations of the attract demo based on the emulator you're using.


I wonder if the attract demo would also be different on the Everdrive N8 compared to real hardware since the initial memory state is different due to loading games from a menu (or something along those lines).


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:05 pm 


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BIL wrote:
Beautiful, beautiful GIFs. :cool:

That st7 bit always comes up, for good reason. :mrgreen: Probably the game's single nastiest chokepoint? Vanguard had a particularly classic encounter recently.


ty bil! and yeah, i saw that. in my st1 gif you can see me think "i should probably get and jump between these bullets" but did not succeed :'( some scary shit!! it's amazing how just a split-second of not applying pressure in the right place gets you into hairy situations like those. i shoot the walls so damn much on higher loops - it must look very strange to an amateur player to be so pre-emptively cautious as to be sending a hail of bullets at the reverse wall without anything currently there.

Quote:
High-loop hyper-armoured st8 critters are some scary shit! My own favourite brush with disaster, had to BACDAFUCUP really quick, that mid-air hugger kill wasn't gonna happen! I didn't dare face DEMON DRAGON GOD JAVA without Spread+Rapid+Barrier on that run - they come hard at me imma come right back! Image (a phrase more IREM than Konami, I know!)


yeah, i saw that, too!! my ONE death on loop 14 was from missing a jump almost identically spaced to what you made here :'[ that put me on my last life. on loop 15, i get all the way to stage 8, but then for some reason my mind completely blanks out and i take the lower path on java and miss the barrier and lose both my lives (since i got a single extend for clearing loop 14 - it's weird that you keep getting one even after the score stops awarding them). it's such a completely embarrassing way to end the run after i finally got strats down for the toughest loops to be able to do them. i seriously just do something nonsensical for a reason i couldn't even explain, but at that point i was on call with a few friends and tired and stupid and loopy and begging for it to end.

you do some great diagonal shooting on those suckers, but i think at loop 7 they're not quite at maximum health, just yet. iirc they take a couple more volleys once you're higher up and i think you wouldn't have been able to kill a few you ended up fragging. i really like that, actually - it makes the final boss actually terrifying, which feels like such a proper way to end a run. even with the armor they're at in the video, they're still hellishly more threatening.

Image
(loop 14)

Image
(loop 7)

that strat is tried & true with the pea shooter on that loop and maybe one or two higher, btw! always blast the one coming out of that top pod and you'll be able to react to them dropping with efficiency every time. let's you get right up in that heart and pump it full of lead. hell of a lot more exciting than that grey lump, kimkoh, in super c! why does he just sit here? why's he... all grey??? you don't even have to move from one spot to kill him, he's just waiting for death.
kinda sad, really Image

i also HIGHLY recommend that quick pod kill on high loops. those pods have ludicrously tanky HP on the higher loops and that reliably, safely nukes that one. it's a bit risky to stick around for the second up that close but it does kill it faster and not put you into any worse of a situation of spontaneously needing precision jumps than any other spot.

- - - - - -

ah, right, jonny, i should probably mention - i think you're onto something with the design order! would be great to get that confirmed from an official source like it would be nice to get confirmation with shatterhand/solbrain, but you've put me in that camp, too.

it290 wrote:
Not to sound like a philistine, but save states? You can even do that on an Everdrive if you're so inclined.


i hate playing on anything but original hardware - gotta have that ntsc signal on my tube for Maximum Visual Quality. i also tend to heavily prefer old controllers to most USB stuff and find a lot of replica controllers to have a couple of 'off' thing that really screw with me. there's something that feels wrong about the whole experience on an emulator, even though i know it would radically simplify my capturing process and also make my videos look a lot better.

i guess i *could* load a state on an everdrive and plug it into a console for fun with stuff like that, though? would that work? i've never used an everdrive, but they're tempting. i'm woefully attached to original cartridges, though. feels like they've got a history and a specific purpose. like a little totem to the effort put into these games and representative of all the love that goes into developing a good game. i know playing is virtually the same experience, but i get a tiny spark of joy by plugging a cartridge with just a little wear on it into a system, especially when i've imported it from somewhere like beep shop that keeps the retro trade alive.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:25 pm 


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Had thought about dropping this in the Castlevania thread, but since it's heavily gameplay focused I'm putting it here. Figured folks like BIL may dig it--a formal tutorial covering each of the six bosses in the original Castlevania on the NES. I cover various strategies, from battling them with each of the sub-weapons, to doing things whip-only. Link: https://youtu.be/M-vGUUB6UC4
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:15 pm 


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kitten wrote:
i guess i *could* load a state on an everdrive and plug it into a console for fun with stuff like that, though? would that work? i've never used an everdrive, but they're tempting. i'm woefully attached to original cartridges, though. feels like they've got a history and a specific purpose. like a little totem to the effort put into these games and representative of all the love that goes into developing a good game. i know playing is virtually the same experience, but i get a tiny spark of joy by plugging a cartridge with just a little wear on it into a system, especially when i've imported it from somewhere like beep shop that keeps the retro trade alive.


Yep. The N8 has a single save/load state per game. It doesn't work perfectly on every game, but I don't expect Contra should have any difficulty. Used it frequently when I was practicing Akumajo Densetsu frequently last year.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:13 pm 


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Austin wrote:
Had thought about dropping this in the Castlevania thread, but since it's heavily gameplay focused I'm putting it here. Figured folks like BIL may dig it--a formal tutorial covering each of the six bosses in the original Castlevania on the NES. I cover various strategies, from battling them with each of the sub-weapons, to doing things whip-only. Link: https://youtu.be/M-vGUUB6UC4


Beautiful work! Hopefully it'll demystify things a bit for the uninitiated.

Also, didn't realise you were Gameplay and Talk! Always enjoy your comments on my stuff. :smile:

Honoured to have it here (indexed for sure, along with kitten's Contra reports) - I'd crosspost it to the CV thread too though! Image That's quality intel, deserves as many eyes on it as possible. I sometimes worry that this thread frightens off the noobs, what with Dr. Biruford exploding in alcoholic anger on the very first page. Image :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:03 pm 


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Yesterday I discovered that I had learned to 1CC Ninja Ryukenden with Vsync turned ON.

I had no idea wall-jumping was so easy...
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:36 pm 


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Blimey, NG1 with input lag must be TEH SUCK. :o We should sort out some kinda accreditation for Force members who overcame the handicap! Image

After noticing BizHawk lets you mute the BGM (disable all but the last two sound channels), I blew my Sunday trying to perfect my Saigo no Nindou [PCE] arcade BGM replacement! It's just a quick experiment, but I wanted to see if I could exorcise some of the PCE's chirpier/barkier SFX. After much fiddling with levels in Premiere Pro, I decided to leave it be for now. Will try poaching better SFX from elsewhere, sometime! Image Fight 2, maybe? It's really just the "zako ninja out" SFX that needs junking, has an annoying trebly bite. I'm gonna get the draft version of my Ninja Pit Killer going.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:29 am 


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BIL wrote:
Beautiful work! Hopefully it'll demystify things a bit for the uninitiated.

Also, didn't realise you were Gameplay and Talk! Always enjoy your comments on my stuff. :smile:

Honoured to have it here (indexed for sure, along with kitten's Contra reports) - I'd crosspost it to the CV thread too though! Image That's quality intel, deserves as many eyes on it as possible. I sometimes worry that this thread frightens off the noobs, what with Dr. Biruford exploding in alcoholic anger on the very first page. Image :lol:


Thanks, man! That was certainly the idea, helping out some of the more casual folks who may not know better. But it was nice to toss in some whip-only stuff too, it's something I've been trying to challenge myself with these last couple of years. :)

it290 wrote:
kitten wrote:
i guess i *could* load a state on an everdrive and plug it into a console for fun with stuff like that, though? would that work? i've never used an everdrive, but they're tempting. i'm woefully attached to original cartridges, though. feels like they've got a history and a specific purpose. like a little totem to the effort put into these games and representative of all the love that goes into developing a good game. i know playing is virtually the same experience, but i get a tiny spark of joy by plugging a cartridge with just a little wear on it into a system, especially when i've imported it from somewhere like beep shop that keeps the retro trade alive.


Yep. The N8 has a single save/load state per game. It doesn't work perfectly on every game, but I don't expect Contra should have any difficulty. Used it frequently when I was practicing Akumajo Densetsu frequently last year.


Does the N8 really only have one slot? Hm.. interesting. I had thought about eventually switching over to it eventually but maybe I'll hold off. I have a Power Pak (bought years ago before the N8 was available) and via its Power Mappers set it has five slots per save file (you can load any file before starting the game, so technically the amount is unlimited).

@kitten - Flash carts are so useful. Save states alone are great for practicing specific parts, but you can also "try before you buy" so to say if you're hard into the collecting aspect. I definitely recommend one to get the most out of a console's library. You get the convenience of emulation but part of the feel of real hardware (CRT, original controllers, etc).
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:06 am 


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Saigo no Nindou [PCE] Arcade BGM Dub is up - not satisfied with the remaining PCE zako SFX, as mentioned, but it's early days. :mrgreen:

Inspired by this lovely interview with Masahiko Ishida, posted by blackoak at shmuplations - made me realise how infatuated I've always been with IREM's monstrously metallic M72 sound. Ishida's musical expertise shines in Saigo and X-Multiply's OSTs, subtly tailored to their respective strains of occult horror. For a laugh, try replacing either's music with his Top-Gunning Image Fight OST, surely among the most dick-swingingly brash heavy metal that VGM has ever known!

Oh, Ninja Pit guide is done. I hope it helps others enjoy this infernally replayable game! Image Will try to sort out some video/GIF overlays later on, but hopefully this communicates well enough for now.

===

A Necessary Operation:
THE NINJA PIT KILLER for SAIGO NO NINDOU (1988 IREM)
v1.0 / 2019 Biruford Press, 99 Tinkletowne Crescent, Weewillehwinkeh BLVD

---

Contents

1. The Ninja Pit, or WTF IREM
2. The Route
3. Slowdown?
4. PC Engine EZ Route

Special Thanks to Vanguard, Vludi and Ex_Mosquito, plus H_AML, SaigoNoNindou, and all the other brave ninja commandos whose work is humbly compiled here. Any corrections or contributions gratefully accepted!

---

1. The Ninja Pit, or WTF IREM

>WTF is the Ninja Pit? An infamous memoriser sequence found in stage 7-2 of Saigo no Nindou aka Ninja Spirit.
>Infamous? How that? You're gonna eat shit repeatedly until you've nailed down a perfect route.
>LMAO I'll just dodge the ninjas! No you won't bitch! The heavy air controls and brutally low screen placement make reaction dodges impossible.
>I will chop and/or shoot them! Nein. The ninjas have far too much HP to destroy before they kill you.
>Can I at least move up the screen a little? Katanas are flying up my asshole! No.
>WTF IREM Yes.

A game design enigma for the ages! The Ninja Pit is a speck of kusoge in an otherwise sublime ninja sidescroller. Fortunately, it's highly amenable to routine. There are countless possible solutions; however, once you've chosen a route, you will need to master it utterly. The element of execution is not apparent in replays, and is just as vital as memorisation. Saigo's air handling is not geared for evasion, as IREM recognised with Tsukikage's bullet-cancelling weaponry.

This guide details what I believe to be the simplest, execution-lightest route. I strongly suggest newbies make use of it, or similarly thorough guidance. Whatever the reason for the pit - A freak lapse of judgment? Simple exhaustion? Good ol' corporate greed? - it is a rank kusoge canker, to be excised swiftly and cleanly from the work. In stark contrast to the pit, Saigo's other 99% is keenly volatile, masterfully un-masterable, and overall: far too good to be missed, even with such an egregious endgame pratfall. Believe irascible old Dr. Biruford: once you're gunning for the no-miss, the pit will be among the least of your worries. Stage 6 and Boss 7, OTOH, will be making you shit your shinobi britches until the bitter end - and long after! Image

VERSION USED: Hamster's "Arcade Archives: Saigo no Nindou" for PlayStation 4. Contents should apply seamlessly to the Switch equivalent, the arcade PCB, as well as MAME or any other quality emulator. Not sure if the overseas version "Ninja Spirit" differs at all. This information does not apply to the excellent PC Engine conversion - please see the foot of this post for its easy route.

---

2. The Route

NB: There is deliberately a little overlap between each GIF, to aid with route visualisation. They're also a bit big (12mb full route, 3-4mb segments), for clarity.

Also, speaking of routing: get acquainted with the "rock dragon" background formations.

Image

You need all the friends you can get down in this motherfucker! I'll note the spots where I make critical use of them. The ninjas themselves are also useful markers, if less obligingly harmless!

PHASE 0: IDEAL

FULL SPEED:
Spoiler: show
Image

SLOWED DOWN:
Spoiler: show
Image

VIDEO: https://youtu.be/CAadWhNYwhs?t=686

The full sequence is ~20 seconds in total: the first ten largely a freebie, the latter requiring precognitive positioning and a brief slalom. Don't focus on the complete sequence, just yet. With the speed of the drop, and the delay on the controls, it's probably best to study its constituent phases first.

PHASE I: OPERATION HELL DIVE

FULL SPEED:
Spoiler: show
Image

SLOWED DOWN:
Spoiler: show
Image


The safest start is to simply drop from the ceiling, as shown. There's an invisible shelf preventing you from advancing beyond the drop point, ensuring you'll get it every time. Alternatively, for style points, you can hop off IREM's customarily phallic "diving board," aiming for the same dropzone - but you'll need to apex the jump carefully! You want to graze the ceiling - too low, and you risk hitting a ninja. Too high, and you'll latch onto the ceiling and look dumb. They're all gonna laugh at you!

Either way, get to the right of the first ninja as shown at the end of the GIF, roughly over the minutes digit of the timer. You'll automatically enter the gap formed by him and his wall-hugging pal.

PHASE II: THE WAIT

FULL SPEED:
Spoiler: show
Image

SLOWED DOWN:
Spoiler: show
Image


We are waiting on three ninjas. The first two pass by our right, near the wall. Brush by the second to dodge the third, and go to the wall. Don't hug it - that'll make leaving harder, and we're not staying long.

PHASE III: WALL ESCAPE

FULL SPEED:
Spoiler: show
Image

SLOWED DOWN:
Spoiler: show
Image


We've got to leave the wall before a ninja arrives to kill us. Note the lone dragon that just whizzed past - he's your red traffic light. The cluster of two directly following him are your amber and green, respectively. With the heavy controls, waiting until "green" to move will almost certainly get you killed by the aforementioned wall-hugging ninja. I like to "pre-load" momentum with two or three [left] taps, well in advance, so that Tsukikage is clear of the wall and ready to smoothly slice into the "exit lane" shown.

Upon escaping your would-be killer, aim to brush the right side of the first dragon's eye - roughly over the gap between the Kusarigama's and the timer's windows. Then, drop straight down as shown - this'll keep you on-course.

PHASE IV: DRAGON EYE & NOSE SPECIALIST or THE WAIT, PART 2

FULL SPEED:
Spoiler: show
Image

SLOWED DOWN:
Spoiler: show
Image


We're waiting again, but as always, in precognitive fashion! Having brushed the eye of the aforementioned dragon, you're on course to skim the nose of the next. This is a pre-emptive move that'll set you up for the final phase, a short slalom. The above GIF bleeds into it, but for clarity's sake we'll continue in Phase V below.

PHASE V: SAIGO NO NINDOU or The Shimmy Shimmy Slide

FULL SPEED:
Spoiler: show
Image

SLOWED DOWN:
Spoiler: show
Image


A short slalom ending in salvation. Skimming the dragon's nose in Phase IV will dodge the first of four killers, on your right. Immediately get into his lane afterwards, to dodge another on your left. Finally, nudge left again, to dodge a third.

This "left, right, left" slalom pattern is the trickiest execution of the route - don't fret if it takes a while to sink in. Once you've dodged that third ninja, you're home free.

The third ninja is immediately followed by another in the same lane. For our purposes, this is the last ninja. Once he's flown past, get in his lane and stay there. Job done! Don't get too comfortable, the last boss is a motherfucker!

---

3. Slowdown?

You can reduce the drop speed significantly by firing your weapons - the upgraded Kusarigama plus two shadows seems to work best.

You'll notice my replay doesn't do this - I was initially trying to acclimatise to checkpoint recoveries, where you'll be at base power. Eventually I found the slowdown a threat to my timing, particularly in Phase III's wall escape and Phase V's slalom. YMMV! Also, in a blatant instance of Stockholm syndrome, I kinda like how the fullspeed drop looks/feels. Image

terminal descent
metal, gleaming in the black
whispers of stale silk


(The first death poem of Dr. Biruford)

jaws of victory
throw the pit another coin
rifling my wallet!!


(The second death poem of Dr. Biruford)

Note that you'll get some slowdown even without firing, particularly towards the end of the drop.

---

4. PC Engine EZ Route

Oof, I'm all tuckered out lads. Image Dr. Biruford needs to hit the minibar after a rough operation! I'm gonna copy/paste this in from an old post.

"If it helps anyone, as a meager companion to Mr. Mosquito's truly heroic AC mapping efforts, here's a gif of the PCE port's easy path (slowed down for clarity).

Spoiler: show
Image


Basically you want to fall off the ledge and immediately pull [left] hard, then back off slightly to avoid slamming into the first ninja. Graze him to ensure you'll miss the second, then resume heading left down the path shown. Upon exiting, you're good to get within a character width of the wall. Job done, just chill. It's dead easy with a bit of credit feeding practice - as shown, there's a decent bit of give in the hitboxes. Swinging the sword helps with spacing, I find."

Also, here's a video of the easy route at full speed.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:39 am 


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Austin wrote:
Does the N8 really only have one slot? Hm.. interesting. I had thought about eventually switching over to it eventually but maybe I'll hold off. I have a Power Pak (bought years ago before the N8 was available) and via its Power Mappers set it has five slots per save file (you can load any file before starting the game, so technically the amount is unlimited).


Basically only one slot per game, yes. You can technically set up as many as you want, but it's a little laborious, see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QguxPfeKXuU. Definitely a worthwhile method if you're practicing a game, especially since you can rename the files however you want, but there's no way to switch slots in-game without resetting to the ED menu.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:23 am 


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Still playing DD2FC, just trying to get the normal clear first before going for hard mode. It's actually quite easy and the post BIL linked to was all the strategy I needed with addition to the spacing stuff I learned from DD1. But just looking at the normal modes I actually strongly prefer DD1FC I think. I'm really hating the platforming in this one, and in fact it's platforming mistakes that are keeping me from the clear. I'd much prefer this series had no platforming at all, I didn't come here for no parkour.

...

Just got the 1cc, though it was a close run due to stupid platforming deaths and I had to fight the final boss with no lives in stock. Guess I'll give hard mode a go next.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:01 pm 


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new replays, incoming hot!

- * - * - * - * - * -

contra (FC) 14 loop 1cc parts [ONE] [TWO] [THREE]

i've been over these and even detailed some of the interesting parts with gifs over the last couple pages, but here's the videos! probably not worth watching the insane length, but these are good videos to just pick a choke point & loop and go to that moment to see what's up. loop 14 & 15 (despite the totally hilarious, stupid way i fuck up and end it) are probably my best performances, though i do nomiss the first three loops before dying even once.

- * - * - * - * - * -

(AS USUAL FOR EACH OF THE BELOW, MINI-REVIEWS IN VIDEO DESCRIPTION, you can respond in this thread rather than on YT if you've got questions/etc.)

cyber cross (PCE) nomiss

a semi-obscure tokusatsu game by the notoriously mediocre face. it's actually kind of decent! the game only gives you one credit, so to clear it, you kinda gotta nomiss it, but still - a play where you don't die is a play where you don't die. has a semi-lighthearted atmosphere and some goofy bosses. ever wanted to play spartan x on pc engine, but it was super sentai flavored? here you go. disregard the initial kusoge flavor, this may not be great but it is solid.

- * - * - * - * - * -

cross wiber (PCE) nomiss

whoo! fuck this game! oh my god! i was stuck on getting a nomiss for this for like 3 or 4 days with fewer attempts per day. i managed to beat it with the extremely minimal continues they give you on the first day, but getting an actual nomiss down was some fucking work. there are 4 stages in this game in which enemies will spawn over death pits and it makes me feel like a heel for ever complaining about how they do it in ninja gaiden cuz fucking jeezus how did this game get shipped with such easy combat and bosses and then these nasty, nasty pitfalls.

its the (spiritual? direct?) sequel to cyber cross, but features an edgier, more *adult* tokusatsu vibe than its friendly sentai predecessor developed by a totally different outfit. the game looks and sounds good, for the most part, but the platforming can seriously eat it, it's way too clunky, and the power-up system is horrendous.

for those looking to play this, some pointers -

- every level always spawns the exact same waves in the same orders with perpetuity. it doesn't stop. most of the enemies follow this timer, though a few in each stage will instead trigger on spawn placement in the level. this usually includes the power-up containers, much to one's chagrin! pop a container and accidentally pick up a weapon change and you've cost your other weapon its much-needed upgrade path while also now needing to find your old weapon again - which is time wasting at best, lethal at worst. this will happen in the areas with hell platforming because you often want to be blindly attacking as you jump from platform to platform, meaning you'll pick up the wrong weapon and want to eat your foot. even if you don't pick it up, it will linger on-screen for so long that it can cause a lot of added stress & peril.

- remember when in each level that the level decides to spawn canisters and exactly what it is in them. i went over this in the last tip, but you should seriously try memorizing how you want to get your weapon of choice to level 6 as fast as possible. several levels will spawn two greens or blues, but most only spawn one red (if they spawn red at all). the first level can spawn green to get you fully powered by stage 5, but good luck having enough patience for it, it takes a while to fly in.

- levels 6, 10, and small parts of 12 have swarms of enemies coming at you while doing pinpoint jumps onto platforms. this both can and will kill you repeatedly. what you want to do is wait until you have a drone flying off screen (never try to kill all in a swarm) and then move a couple of pillars/platforms forward while it waits to spawn the next group. kill them, and you move up the spawn time and get less room to move. in stages 10 and 12, you can most easily manipulate the green guys to stay on the screen longest before spawning a new wave and those are your best times to move. however, red guys will still sometimes spawn and seemingly spawn off the usual rhythm. always be attacking as you jump, and never jump when so high on the screen you could potentially jump on top of them and not have them in sword slash range. also, always position yourself in the MIDDLE of a pillar so a hit from either direction won't knock you off. you will need to tank hits, sometimes.

- level 7 can LITERALLY FUCKING SPAWN DUDES ON TOP OF YOU WHILE YOU JUMP OVER PITS. it will be impossible to avoid the hit! not pretend ninja gaiden impossible, actual impossible. i'm not making this shit up, check the timestamp. guy just instantly spawns on my head. i was lucky here and not directly over a pit, but this can outright kill you. while you can mitigate the chance of this happening, their spawn periods are very ambiguous and sometimes standing still and waiting until you're certain will put you in even more peril. fuck this noise. potentially consistently avoidable if you have like some sort of really incredible memory for spawn timers and locations, but you'll usually get tagged at least once like this and just have to hope it wasn't over open air.

- you pick up larger health vials when not morphed into your cop armor. always make sure you're morphed when you need to be picking a weapon pick-up, and try to stay morphed the whole game, but do keep in mind recovery is easy because of the extra health drops you'll be getting instead of bullets or weapon changes.

- the maze level (stage 9) sucks!!! watch my video for routing because *god damn* can that otherwise become a timesink.

- the grim reaper boss is named "laliho." that's a jojo reference, right? right.

- as far as power-ups go, red is the most powerful once it hits level 4 and can be fired the most quickly and eventually gets a projectile, blue does power-up surprisingly given its vast range and even gains, loses, and then gains back bonus diagonal shots (you only rarely run out of ammo, pick-ups for it are mostly well-distributed), and green is pretty good for keeping a lot of projectiles on screen but maybe weakest at dps (which is usually only relevant for bosses, who are almost all pushovers). i'd say blue is the worst if only for the fact you need to be opening containers more often for ammo and that sometimes makes managing the containers on the platforming stages too scary despite the range advantage. green is decent and red is narrowly best but the biggest pain to upgrade or get back.

- there's numerous codes to make the game easier or even do a level select for practicing, as well as a hard mode. i didn't try hard mode, but i imagine that if all it does is increase damage, it would have to more than double it to actually cause you to need to re-route anything or make the game noticeably more difficult since you rarely ever dip to half health and it's always preventable by farming the health tubes.

ah, recalling the days of my halcyon youth as but an optimistic, sheltered lass who looked forward to this with hope in her heart. to be honest, i still, on some level, do like the game, but lordy is it self-sabotaging. has anyone else on this forum even played this? i think me and ing are the only ones to mention it, and last check in 2016, he hadn't played it. i guess someone who hasn't posted in 7 years also mentioned it having a good soundtrack in 2006. which is true, it does have a good soundtrack. pce chip sound is so underrated.

god, this had me looking back at when i posted the manual to cyber cross for welshy. remember when NEC was teaching us about consent?

cw: noncon, exposed privates, hucardism

Spoiler: show
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- * - * - * - * - * -

kaizo chojin shubibin man 2: aratanaru teki (PCE) nomiss

the now-kind-of-rockman-esque sequel to the original. roughly just as bumpy, but a bit harder at times and with some frustrating checkpoints given the length and unskippable dialogue in some stages. it's a bit sloppy, but it's still kinda solid when you get over the ugly parts. a bit more edgy than its predecessor but stays cute & silly. not a hard clear with a little practice and easily the toughest game in its series, though that doesn't say too much. i really like this game and series a lot, but expanding much further is just going to be gushing about late 80's/early 90's cartoon robot aesthetic.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:02 pm 


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This is a rather quality page! :cool:

Cross Wiber's one of those PCE sidescrollers I can never drag myself around to trying... see also Iga Ninden Gao. In both cases, the word ain't too good. :mrgreen:

ACSeraph wrote:
Just got the 1cc, though it was a close run due to stupid platforming deaths and I had to fight the final boss with no lives in stock. Guess I'll give hard mode a go next.


Interested to hear what you think of FC Hard, it's a real bastard! Surely the most wickedly treacherous "two enemies onscreen max" ever? I thought the enemy limit sounded like a bad joke coming back from lots of later-gen stuff, but good god damn did it smack me in the mouth quick. :shock:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:17 pm 


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kitten wrote:
whoo! fuck this game! oh my god!

Now that's a back-of-the-box quote to hang one's hat on. :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:33 am 


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ACSeraph wrote:
Still playing DD2FC, just trying to get the normal clear first before going for hard mode. It's actually quite easy and the post BIL linked to was all the strategy I needed with addition to the spacing stuff I learned from DD1. But just looking at the normal modes I actually strongly prefer DD1FC I think. I'm really hating the platforming in this one, and in fact it's platforming mistakes that are keeping me from the clear. I'd much prefer this series had no platforming at all, I didn't come here for no parkour.

Just got the 1cc, though it was a close run due to stupid platforming deaths and I had to fight the final boss with no lives in stock. Guess I'll give hard mode a go next.


The platforming in DD2 suuuuuuucks. Just a couple pixels off with your jump? Congrats--you just missed your target platform and fell to your death! On the flip side, the platforming in DD1 is fairly inoffensive for the most part (at least once you get the hang of jumping early enough as to not slip off a ledge early).

I actually too prefer DD1 overall, mainly for its pacing. Character movement is faster and the levels *mostly* have less downtime between brawls. It's a nice, brisk playthrough that's still teeming with plenty of danger. The combat and level progression in DD2 more than makes up for its trashy platforming, but I do find myself revisiting DD1 more often.

DD2 Hard mode is nice though. It's one of the earlier examples on console I can think of where you get a different final boss for doing the higher difficulty.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:18 am 


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I think FC DD2 has the 'secret' final boss in normal mode (the guy who looks like he's a Hokuto no Ken character). I love that time stop effect when you knock him out, one of the most satisfying feelings in gaming.

I tried hard mode for just a few minutes last night and I strongly prefer the vicious A.I. but the enemies seem a bit spongy. I'm going to see how well I can do with it.

How is DD3FC? That one I never got around to buying and I can't remember much about it from when I was a kid. I have a copy of Super DD sitting around so might jump into that soon.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:44 am 


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Yeah, the FC version doesn't bother with the NES's difficulty cutoffs. Also enables continues by default! So it's vastly more brutal yet also user-friendlier than the NES one. :cool:

Mission 7's Bridge Ropers have absolutely obscene HP - I recall chucking them into the pit being not a style move, as it generally is elsewhere, but more for survival. They're the exception though. Everyone else starts at the NES's max HP (FC Hard's very first Williams are as tough as NES Hard's last).

Mission 4's corridor battle is rough, since you can't tag its Right Arms with power attacks to enable grapples as easily as elsewhere. Here's my method with video; probably the toughest fight in the game. If I get knocked down in the pincer, I'm tempted to restart. You can recover but it's gonna get hellaciously ugly.

DDIII FC is enjoyable enough, but it's a decided step down unbefitting the final Famicom entry. Movement has a slight but persistent sluggishness - most noticeable when doubletapping to run. Stage design has a few instances of DD2's divisive platforming, made worse by said controls, but virtually none of its clever, treacherous denials of space. Very open and flat.

The fighting is nowhere as technically flexible or vicious as DDII's FC Hard, either. USP is its three distinct characters. The Lees' grapple exploit is kinda fun - grab an enemy, knee 'em a few times, hit [away] to release, then quickly pivot to grab 'em again for another bashing, before releasing them for a swift KO. Ranzou has some neat aerial mechanics that feel slightly more trouble than they're worth, given his low damage output. Shoulda given him an Izuna Drop! Guess it wasn't standard-issue for VG ninjas just yet. Chin's basic PPP combos demolish regular enemies with proper time+spacing, simple but kinda charming given the challenge presented by his slow movement. Ultimately, all three combined are no match for DD2's single honed system.

Game's highlight is probably the tricky last boss, a tense duel I enjoy as much as anything in the prior two games. I remember it being tense anyway! Been a couple years. The FC ending will actually reflect if anyone's died, so 1LCs gain a small but welcome gravity. Excellent soundtrack throughout, nice colourful graphics too with Technos's customarily expressive semi-superdeformed agonyfaces.

Unskippable cutscenes, unfortunately, something Technos would develop a real problem with going foward into the SFC years.

It's not a bad game at all, just a bit substandard. If they'd been released DD3->DD1->DD2, it'd be totally acceptable as the rough debut.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:53 am 


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Ahh, I hadn't realized the FC DDII didn't lock off the real final boss from the normal difficulty. And you say the highest difficulty is more challenging than the US version? Now this is something I have to try. I may have to give that a go this weekend.

Re: Double Dragon III - I do still enjoy that game, but these days I find it difficult to find the willpower to finish it again. I beat it once in the late '90s but haven't managed it since. It's just so tedious compared to the previous two, with actual stage design being completely non-existent for at least two-thirds of the game. The combat feels less visceral than the two before it as well, despite the larger move set between all of the characters. I didn't really notice it when I was younger, but as an adult it feels like a case of the devs getting some solid groundwork in place, then being forced to push out the product before they were able to figure out how the levels should progress.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:07 pm 


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BIL wrote:
Cross Wiber's one of those PCE sidescrollers I can never drag myself around to trying... see also Iga Ninden Gao. In both cases, the word ain't too good. :mrgreen:


idk, looks good to me

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:32 pm 


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^ I foresee great things in that GIF's future! Image

Image

Austin wrote:
Ahh, I hadn't realized the FC DDII didn't lock off the real final boss from the normal difficulty. And you say the highest difficulty is more challenging than the US version? Now this is something I have to try. I may have to give that a go this weekend.


FC Difficult is indeed much tougher than the NES's Supreme Master. The boring parameter tweak is 50-100% increased enemy HP: Supreme Master's last Williams = FC Difficult's first. This has the slightly more interesting effect of rendering all Ropers and Right Arms grapple-proof until you've clouted them with a power attack (again the NES takes several missions to reach this point).

But the far more interesting change is enemy aggression. Basically, if you're in range, you're getting attacked - no exceptions.

NES Supreme Master:
Spoiler: show
Image


FC Difficult:
Spoiler: show
Image


Even Mission 2's attack chopper is angrier, strafing the rooftop with palpable bloodthirst and awesome Technos FC gunshot SFX. :lol:

Taken together, these two changes also smooth out the infamously dominant Knee. Now it's far more likely to trade, without very skilled execution, and it's no longer a 1HKO - so the other two power moves (marginally weaker but much easier to connect) have a role, as do the basic strikes + grapples. At the same time, the Knee is still the game's single deadliest attack - it'll knock the wind right out of R/RAs, setting them up for a fatal grapple beatdown. It's also just as potent at bazooka-ing enemies into pits and off ledges. It's remarkable how well this all turned out - the Knee is tamed but not defanged, remaining one of the more hellishly gratifying maneuvers in all of 2D violence.

DDIIFC is one of my fondest import discoveries. :mrgreen: Seems very under-reported... closest I've seen is The Cutting Room Floor's vague mention of increased enemy HP, but it's way more profound than that. NES Supreme Master's enemies are just barely even with FC Normal's.

And as said, despite being way the hell meaner, FC DD2 is also much user-friendlier. No cheats needed for continues, you can see the whole game on any difficulty, and said difficulties tailor Mission 6's platforming accordingly.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:48 pm 


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I never understood why DD2NES bothered having difficulty settings, when they were not really all that different from each other. I never saw much point in playing the game on Practice or Warrior when they give you non-endings even when I was a kid. DD2FC was an eye-opener for me in that sense.

DD2FC and DD3FC both seem to be later revisions of the games (much like the difference between Super Double Dragon and Return of Double Dragon). By the way did you guys know the DD3NES prototype was leaked not long ago? It has a completely different script from the released version much closer to the later Japanese version.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:54 am 


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Still in Double Dragon fever here. Last night I put some extra time into DD2FC Hard. It's really a much better game due to the AI actually having some balls. Also though my initial impression was that the enemies were spongy I don't feel that way having progressed further in. It just starts with meaty enemies right off the bat, but it doesn't spike up so much as you progress. I think the spongy enemies on the collapsing bridge was an intentional design choice; they want you to knock them off. Also BIL, no shit that spiked hallway of doom is brutal. I pretty easily made it there and then got caught between two enemies who viciously beat me until my eyes popped out of my skull Negan style. I like it, but the platforming still sucks and I think I'm going to have to figure out the timing on those recovery uppercuts. I can never get those to read. Oh, and one other thing, seriously fuck that steam train platforming bullshit, is there even a consistent strategy for that?

I also played a bit of DD1FC. I keep making it to Jimmy Lee with about half a health bar and he always wins the war of attrition. The 1LC looks within reach, but something about my strategy just isn't sufficient. Currently I weave around him until he's in position for a max range kick combo. After scoring a knockdown I try to point blank him as he gets up with a P,P,P,P,K. With a full health bar and good spacing this strategy is more than enough, but it's common for him to suddenly recover during the kick combination and retaliate, trade during the point blank, or simply crouch the kick finisher and counter me. Any tips for me to clean up this fight?

Finally I also tried out Super Double Dragon. While it doesn't feel anything like the FC titles it seems extremely deep and interesting. Quite a bit tougher than the FC titles too. I need to look up a move list since I was playing it blind and couldn't figure out how to even grapple. I'll probably be looking for some strategy info for this one soon.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:10 am 


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ACSeraph wrote:
Also BIL, no shit that spiked hallway of doom is brutal. I pretty easily made it there and then got caught between two enemies who viciously beat me until my eyes popped out of my skull Negan style.


Right Arms are some bad motherfuckers. Image Among gaming's great unsung killers, along with Saigo no Nindou's dread MR. RYUICHI Image

Quote:
I think I'm going to have to figure out the timing on those recovery uppercuts. I can never get those to read.


Uppercuts are [punch] the instant Billy goes from lying flat to kneeling (or, if you're executing out of a jump, the instant he hits the ground). Conversely, knees are the instant he goes from kneeling to standing. IIRC (been a few years), the uppercut timing is a bit more generous, but that could be my shaky Revenge Knee timing talking, haha.

Quote:
Oh, and one other thing, seriously fuck that steam train platforming bullshit, is there even a consistent strategy for that?


As with much of the game's platforming involving moving parts (st6's vanishing platforms, st7 aka THE LULZ FACTORY's spikes/gears), you have to anticipate the motion of the train and jump "early" - here's a reasonably clean climb.

Quote:
Currently I weave around him until he's in position for a max range kick combo. After scoring a knockdown I try to point blank him as he gets up with a P,P,P,P,K. With a full health bar and good spacing this strategy is more than enough, but it's common for him to suddenly recover during the kick combination and retaliate, trade during the point blank, or simply crouch the kick finisher and counter me. Any tips for me to clean up this fight?


Jimmy's reaction speed is brutal, I never quite got a consistent non-cheese strategy down. However, as a last resort, he's easily shut down by KKE - see here. I try to mix things up a bit and take a whoopin', but I had the HP buffer for it. :mrgreen:

Quote:
Finally I also tried out Super Double Dragon. While it doesn't feel anything like the FC titles it seems extremely deep and interesting. Quite a bit tougher than the FC titles too. I need to look up a move list since I was playing it blind and couldn't figure out how to even grapple. I'll probably be looking for some strategy info for this one soon.


Are you playing the SFC one? Return of Double Dragon has some small but important tweaks over Super. Most notably, enemies can now duck your attacks, boomerangs can now be caught on return, and the music sequencing is way better (seriously, fuck the surpassingly fiery final stage BGM being used in Super's truck brawl - WTF? :shock:). Makes the game feel merely rushed, as opposed to outright unfinished. Image

I'm a fan of the game's choreography-geared system. Its counters and elaborate finishers don't superficially resemble the FC games, but it totally shares the Technos spirit of gritty, face-smashing violence gunning for the coup de grace.

Speaking of, I'll toss in my Virtual Pro Wrestling 2 plug here (CTRL+F "Human"). If the sound of a 4P Technos battle royale sounds good, get on it and WHOOP SOME FUCKIN ASS Image Image Image It satisfies like nothing else. Image

Game's biggest issue is the framerate - I like fatally returning flying knives to their sender, Kenshiro-style, but it's just not worth the risk with the choppy movement. Totally needed a Final Fight Guy-style reissue. Still, flying weapons aside, it's totally playable. I wrote a bit on the game's idiosyncratic proximity-based AI, will help if they seem turtle-y (a common complaint with Return).
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:59 am 


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BIL wrote:
Game's biggest issue is the framerate - I like fatally returning flying knives to their sender, Kenshiro-style, but it's just not worth the risk with the choppy movement. Totally needed a Final Fight Guy-style reissue. Still, flying weapons aside, it's totally playable. I wrote a bit on the game's idiosyncratic proximity-based AI, will help if they seem turtle-y (a common complaint with Return).


Moreso than that, I feel Return of Double Dragon could've use a Ninjawarriors Once Again-style remaquel. Reading the game's manual, it feels Billy's and Jimmy's styles were supposed to be more distinct than they ended up being, but in the actual game only their basic punches are different. In the Japanese version, Jimmy also has a different roundhouse kick animation, whereas in the US version he uses the same one Billy performs, but it seems his basic kick was also supposed to be different (since it's described as a Billy move rather than something both Lee brothers can perform). Hell, the option to select which Lee brother you want to play as is something that inexplicably the game lacks along with turning off friendly fire for join-ins.

The closest thing we'll ever get to such a thing is this OpenBOR project that has Koji Ogata's involvement. He's making new Abobo animation patterns in the RODD-style.
https://gx-openbor.blogspot.com/2019/09 ... er-to.html


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:07 am 


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Jonny2x4 wrote:
The closest thing we'll ever get to such a thing is this OpenBOR project that has Koji Ogata's involvement. He's making new Abobo animation patterns in the RODD-style.
https://gx-openbor.blogspot.com/2019/09 ... er-to.html


Image

Instantly getting TNWOA-style "AGAIN, LEGENDARY MEN RETURN" vibes from those new Bobo sprites.

Just getting the original SFC game running at a steady 60fps would be amazing, tbh. Underneath the framerate and rush-release baggage, it's one of the most distinctive brawlers of the era. The spiralling, sprawling KO falls are things of beauty, especially versus a nasty boss.

Image Image Image

The kind of action game where you have to make your own fun, but I was always cool with that. At the controls, I'm runnin' a show here. Image
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:20 am 


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Thanks for the advice as always 8)

My Super Double Dragon is a Japanese SFC cart; I didn't realize there were multiple revisions. I was a Sega kid (SoR!) so I never knew much about this one before my recent interest in the series.

That fan project looks really cool, but is Arc System Works really going to allow it to be completed?
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:32 am 


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ACSeraph wrote:
That fan project looks really cool, but is Arc System Works really going to allow it to be completed?


They don't care that much. Mitsuhiro Yoshida has been selling unofficial artbooks and scripts for the Kunio games he worked on under the name Miracle Kidz and there's even a patch for Downtown Nekketsu Monogatari ex hidden on his site for a decade now.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:01 am 


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God have mercy, LEGENDARY WARRIOR: ARGUS NO SENSHI is a nonstop buffet of mechanics I like, subtly refined! :o Masterclass of DARKNESS BOP - enemy gets stunned, with a clearly-communicated "unfreeze" period. Player gets a hearty CONTRA FLIP with total i-frames for XTREEM aggression. Image One bop per enemy only, no cheesin'! Incredibly empowering mechanic! Being up a tree surrounded by frenetically-charging foes is an edgy scenario in most sidescrollers, but here it's prime time to bust some fuckin' heads. Stun a chump, kill his air support outta the flip, then make landfall to shred the rest! Create your own opening. Image Not sure how TIGER POWER (=FATAL BOP) affects things, but I sense greatness!

Main weapon DISKARMOR neatly dodges my hated one enemy onry by rebounding off the target, striking an intriguing balance of Dracula method and Strider frenzy! Whack item boxes @ meaty range for unimpeded run n' smash! Again unsure how CROWN POWER (=piercing, I think?) affects things but again I got a good feeling! SUN POWER's conversion of the cool overhead smash to a weird surface-to-air vertical shot is initially jarring but supremely useful.

Come to think of it, both the bop and rebound are in the FC version, which with its Japanese subtitle Hachamecha Daishingeki is much better thought of as an original home effort - much like Hitler no Fukkatsu, right down to both adding topdown action! These sure as shit ain't arcade ports, despite the overseas versions sharing the arcade names! As a latecomer to the AC game, it's been a blast finally getting those quality mechanics in an appropriately relentless arcade canvas. Now I really get why I'd always hang around the FC's early areas bashing down zako - ostensibly a grind, but in practice, inherently satisfying as all hell.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:46 am 


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Need to go back to Rygar myself, I'd managed 15-ish stages on one credit before getting distracted. One of those games, like Kung-Fu Master, so brilliantly simple, but wonderfully tight in it's execution, that it's never anything less than supremely exciting to play.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:20 am 


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Location: COLONY
Oh hell yeah, speaking of which, where's ACA Spartan X? :o I wonder if licensing is holding it up, or if they're just pacing themselves. Gonna get on Vigilante for now, and I've never actually played Moon Patrol, so that's another pre-M72 IREM goodie to get to grips with.

Hopeful they'll round out their excellent M72 coverage with Gen-San, Tonma, Dragon Breed and Gallop! Extra-hopeful for GEOSTORM and UNDERCOVER COPS, what with KAITEI DAISENSOU in the newest batch kicking off the M92 stuff. Image At least I think it's the first M92 ACA title? gimme Leo and Gun Hohki too pls! jeeze, that hardware has some unported goodies.

IREM plus Konami, Taito, Tecmo, Technos, NMK, SNK, DECO, Sunsoft & Nichibutsu is a hell of a slate. Regardless of future licensees (Toaplan pls), I hope they get a good few more years out of this series.

Looking forward to trying out T.A.N.K from the upcoming batch as well, big fan of SNK's related FC topdown tanker Great Tank.

Also WTF I love Tecmo (even more) now!

(BIGGU FACKING GIFFU Image) Although this looks stuntin', w/controls this good, it's actually a pretty sound idea! Image
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Up a tree! But this ain't Makaimura, TAKE THE POWER IN YOUR OWN FUCKIN HAND Image
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AY YO FUCK PODOBOO :evil: FUCK HE MAMA :shock: HE GOIN DOWN Image
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OHSHI THANKS PODOBOO Image
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Game knows all about the Diskarmor rebound, it being critical to scoring! QUICKSHOT QUICKSHOT QUICKSHOT Image
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Enemies get run n' smashed too, but ho ho hoooly fuck, be careful for goodness' sake! :o
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The ACA (PS4) version seems splendid - if there's a game that'll make you notice input lag, it's this one with its nonstop do/die stuntin', rapidfire killin' and teeming slowdown-free hordes. But it's been wonderful, making me dust off all my usual approving similes involving airlocks and razorblades! It's TIGHT & SHARP is what I mean! Image
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[THE MIRAGE OF MIND] Metal Black ST [THE MASSACRE] Gun.Smoke ST [MUH YOUTOOB]
It's a saga of war and man's perpetual fight for survival.


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