Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[BIL]

Yes, I have played SkyBlazer. Recently, actually.

I think it's pretty good, but the stages seem kind of brief.

About how long is the game anyway? I made it to the stage where you have to shift water around, to get where you're going.

Been a long time since a full playthrough, but I don't remember it being overly short. The water dungeon is around halfway through, iirc.

[evil_ash_xero]

Yes, I have played SkyBlazer. Recently, actually.

I think it's pretty good, but the stages seem kind of brief.

About how long is the game anyway? I made it to the stage where you have to shift water around, to get where you're going.

Been a long time since a full playthrough, but I don't remember it being overly short. The water dungeon is around halfway through, iirc.

I was surprised by the production values. You know, it's odd, the Japanese version's voices are a good bit higher up in the mix than the U.S. version. Just something I noticed.

[BrianC]

I was looking at some videos of Skyblazer. It reminds me of the SNES version of Hook.

[BIL]

^Yes, definitely. I believe they shared some of the same staff, with both published by Sony. I need to go back to Hook at some point, it made a pretty good first impression before I put it on the back burner.

[blackoak]

Finished NG2 and NG3 this week. I agree with whoever complained about the environmental levels... it felt like almost every NGII level had some gimmick like that. I liked both though. The jump/slash mechanic felt less satisfying but just a little bit. Seemed harder to hit stuff, though I liked the sword upgrade in NG3.

I was really feeling NG3's longer checkpoints and emphasis on stage memo until stage 7. No health drops before the boss felt a little vindictive to me... I mean, yes, I can completely memorize the levels and get there with 0 or no damage, but it just isn't fun to play that way to me. That and the "slowness" of the level with all the spikes and death jumps... meh. I guess they were running out of ideas and didn't want to regurgitate the stage design from 1 and 2. Still good overall. Think I'll try Holy Diver next...

[BIL]

The sword collision was definitely altered in some way for NG2, for the worse. Hitting grounded enemies from the air is particularly hampered and requires such precision it's often more practical to just land first if possible. Maybe it's slightly glitchy how in NG1, a falling jump attack will instant-kill an enemy even as Ryu's landing cancels the sword animation. But the certainty of contact, the classic hit explosion + sfx ("kthwack") and the unbroken sense of forward momentum are immortally gratifying. Should've been left untouched.

I do think the increased power and relevance of NG2's subweapons just about balance the sword deficiency out. I do enjoy decimating would-be pincer ambushes with judicious blasts of clone-shadowed firepower, slashing only the odd straggler. Not as much as hacking down baddies toe-to-toe, though. NG1 is my firm favourite of the two for this reason.

[evil_ash_xero]

Think I'll try Holy Diver next...

I tried that out the other day, just due to the fact that it's a Dio song, the guy looks like Dio in the video "Holy Diver", and that it's made by Irem.

It was hard as hell, and I gave up. I would have tried more, but I wasn't very into it. Good luck!

I've been working on Skyblazer, and have been having fun with that. The stages are still too brief though. But you control really well, and everything looks nice. Very fun too.

[Skykid]

^Yes, definitely. I believe they shared some of the same staff, with both published by Sony. I need to go back to Hook at some point, it made a pretty good first impression before I put it on the back burner.

It's Ukiyotei, entirely the same staff. They even reuse graphic elements and enemy sprites.

[BIL]

Ta, no excuse to not re-evaluate Hook now then!

Was amused to notice while reading its manual that Karuraoh is now the second game in my collection produced by Kazunori Yamauchi. The first being, of course, none other than his career-defining PS1 masterpiece Omega Boost.

On licensed SFC action sidescroller tip: Decided to follow 1989 Batman's advice and get a bit nuts over the weekend, beefing up my FC sidescroller library with the long-needed addition of Natsume's superb trilogy: Dragon Fighter, Kage and Shatterbrain. Passed up a very nice copy of SFC GS Mikami because it's a total comedown from the intensity and technique of those three (and 1989 Batman). Nice game for sure, but their FC stuff is simply on another tier. Maybe Tecmo's similar no-show on the platform after three genre-leading FC works isn't such a big deal after all.

[drauch]

I've been eying a Mikami cart for over 5 years now. Love the show, and the game is quite fun, so there isn't much of an excuse to why I don't own it. My life is such a disaster. What is this Shatterbrain on Famicom? I don't think I'm familiar and I'm not getting any hits.

[drauch]

Duh, Shatterhand. Nevermind. Don't know why that didn't click instantly.

[BIL]

Haha, sorry. Yeah, Shatterhand (NES) aka Solbrain (FC). They actually have some differences beyond the main character sprite, but they're similar enough that I'm happy to stick with the Japanese version.

[BIL]

Gave FC TEH LORD OF KING (Astyanax) a runthrough over the weekend, having been offered a nice copy. Ended up passing on it because, as appealing as the combo of solid workhorse action and huge vivid sprites may be, it suffers from an example of what I now term serious problems. Namely: each swing of the weapon is good for precisely one hit. No more. No, it doesn't matter the weapon can stay out for seconds at a time while you're in the air. So forget hacking down that venus flytrap, you already had your go at its disgorged pollen! Get back in the queue.

It really came to a head in stage 4-1, the ominously titled MARSHY which tries to be Akumajou Dracula's 4-1 (CATACOMBY), and compares most unfavourably. It's great that you swatted that sine wave pest in mid-jump, King, but unfortunately that's your lot and now Mr. Fishman is gonna whap you into the drink. Plan accordingly next time. :[

Game does look and sound very nice, though. EDIT 2016: and I've since warmed up to it anyway! Witness the riveting rehabilitation on our first episode of 2ND OPINON ;3

Bush-league flaws like this tend to make me slam-dunk a ROM into the recycle bin faster than Michael Jackson in the Windy City, unless there's a very good reason for tolerance (Kenseiden's manfully economic swordplay, Alisia Dragoon's awesome offensive suite). Other srs problems I've come to dread:

CAMERA TRACKING IS BROKE Camera won't keep character centered, resulting in migration to screen edge and near-nil reaction windows. Nearly always a fatal flaw, spoiling as it does the very essence of sidescrolling. See: Disney's Aladdin [MD] (character can be manually re-centered by tapping forward; have fun doing this after every jump)

CAMERA TRACKING IS LAZY / WALKING THE DOG Nearly as grave a flaw, yet more irritating than outright lethal. Camera lags behind character movement, enforcing a constant waiting process as it pans along. See: Psycho Dream [SFC] (during dashing movement)

HAZARDOUS SPRITE POP-IN Bad stuff pops into existence somewhere in a moving character's vicinity instead of sticking to the screen edge or scrolling in, often mandating memorisation to compensate for lack of visibility. See: Kenseiden [Mark III/Master System] (generally tolerable, but flares badly in certain contexts like the training rooms)

PRINCE OF PERSIA TURNAROUND DELAY Character input goes dead during significant turnaround animation. Not much of an issue in POP's measured context, but can be wildly inappropriate elsewhere. Workarounds possible in otherwise sound games. See: Alisia Dragoon [MD] (on Normal, you might let the generous lifebar soak up all the Contra bullets; on Hard, you will either learn how to play Prince of Contra or get massacred by stage 1-1)

HACK OR SLASH (PICK A CARD) Character's attack nullified after contact with first target. Fuck this, seriously. Especially in games with axes, broadswords and other skull-cleaving medieval gear. See above.

[drauch]

Michael Jackson in the Windy City is my (presumably) new favorite typo. It's the only goddamn game I got when it came out and still own. Had the poster on my wall a few years back, even, because I still wish I was 12 and enjoy with game from an obviously jaded nostalgia.

MARSHY sound intense! I can only imagine what dread awaits. I think I've played like 30 seconds of the NES port, saw that it was medieval themed, and instantly declared it awesome. I'm obviously wrong. Does the arcade version play any better?

*EDIT* I enjoy with game!

[BIL]

No it's true I love MJ's blustery day for my MD ;]

Never played the AC version, but I've been meaning to at least watch it as several people have praised its abruptly going full Giger for the last stage. The FC game is decent enough if you're willing to play by its rules, but I'm trying to keep my library nice and lean so tolerance for pet peeves is set at Very Low.

[Mortificator]

I lorded over kings earlier this year. The arcade game is better than the NES one, but certainly not top shelf.

Also note that the console and arcade Astyanax are as different from each other as the console and arcade Akumajo Dracula.

[BIL]

Yes, I remember! And actually... I seem to recall The Legendary Axe (PCE) having the same weapon nullification issue too. My recollection may be off. The effect really doesn't endear when combined with a charge meter. >_<

Dear god @ AC Astyanax's last stage. That's just offensive. Like a little kid chucked his He-Man and Alien action figures into the same bucket.

I always found it funny how in Contra Spirits' final stage endboss reunion special, AC Super Contra's winged xenomorph had to get his act together with a slightly more original design, despite Huge Heart's eggs and facehuggers remaining kosher.

[drauch]

Missed the Legendary Axe discussion! Was just thinking about this the other day and how I still don't own the sequel. Was planning on busting out the ye olde Turbografx and giving it a spin soon.

I don't understand the YouTube replays with cheats where they sometimes attempt to dodge things, then at other times just run right through them.

"Eh, I'll dodge a few flames. Fuck it, I'll just walk through the rest of these and duck while this boss can't hurt me."

[Rob]

cheats

Oh, so that's what happened there. I was getting really confused by the decorative purple flames.

[Squire Grooktook]

I prefer games like SS1 and Hagane that say sorry, no clear until you know exactly how these stages are laid out and how they work: and by the time you achieve it you've officially graduated to true badass ninja class. It's a better aligned experience.

Uhhh, what? I beat everything past stage 2 in Hagane blind. Unless you're talking about a 2-all or no miss run.

Dear god @ AC Astyanax's last stage. That's just offensive. Like a little kid chucked his He-Man and Alien action figures into the same bucket.

That is amazing.

[Skykid]

I prefer games like SS1 and Hagane that say sorry, no clear until you know exactly how these stages are laid out and how they work: and by the time you achieve it you've officially graduated to true badass ninja class. It's a better aligned experience.

Uhhh, what? I beat everything past stage 2 in Hagane blind. Unless you're talking about a 2-all or no miss run.

That's great. And it's the better aligned experience, along with SS1 (which you won't beat blind in any shape or form whatsoever.)

[Squire Grooktook]

I prefer games like SS1 and Hagane that say sorry, no clear until you know exactly how these stages are laid out and how they work: and by the time you achieve it you've officially graduated to true badass ninja class. It's a better aligned experience.

Uhhh, what? I beat everything past stage 2 in Hagane blind. Unless you're talking about a 2-all or no miss run.

That's great. And it's the better aligned experience, along with SS1 (which you won't beat blind in any shape or form whatsoever.)

Yeah, definitely agree about that.

[null1024]

CAMERA TRACKING IS BROKE Camera won't keep character centered, resulting in migration to screen edge and near-nil reaction windows. Nearly always a fatal flaw, spoiling as it does the very essence of sidescrolling. See: Disney's Aladdin [MD] (character can be manually re-centered by tapping forward; have fun doing this after every jump)

The only sidescroller [and it doesn't really fit in the thread ] I've ever seen do this right ever is Sonic CD -- the camera adjusts to let the player see more of what they need: at low speed, camera is a normal centered one, at high speed, it pans so you can see what is coming ahead and actually have time to react.

[evil_ash_xero]

You know, I still don't understand HGG101's overly harsh review of Hagane. It was weird.

I don't want to get on the bash wagon, because I do like that site, and it's introduced me to a lot of games....but it was a bit off the mark.

[Squire Grooktook]

You know, I still don't understand HGG101's overly harsh review of Hagane. It was weird.

I don't want to get on the bash wagon, because I do like that site, and it's introduced me to a lot of games....but it was a bit off the mark.

Yeah it was dumb.

I think they said something along the lines of "they give you all these tools but you never have to use them" as a complaint against the game. Honestly that was one of the games biggest triumphs. It's not like some games where they give you a gimmick item than force you to use it on some otherwise insurmountable object. I loved how Hagane gave you so many tools but let you put them to use how you saw fit.

[Rob]

I loved how Hagane gave you so many tools but let you put them to use how you saw fit.

Sandbox game design. Moves in arcade-style action games should be there for a reason and I'd hope the reasons would be something other than a goofy looking way to skip every obstacle or a 1-2 second method of erasing bosses. Design has to match the moves.

[Squire Grooktook]

I loved how Hagane gave you so many tools but let you put them to use how you saw fit.

Sandbox game design. Moves in arcade-style action games should be there for a reason and I'd hope the reasons would be something other than a goofy looking way to skip every obstacle or a 1-2 second method of erasing bosses. Design has to match the moves.

Yeah, but the thing I like about having that variety of abilities and having them all be useful while not being forced on you, is that it allows you to invent your own strategies that are custom tailored to your play style

Wanna kill the enemies by chucking gernades? Flying kick? Or just run up and slash them? Each has its own risk/reward and timings.

[BIL]

I don't want to get on the bash wagon

ALL ABOARD TEH BASH WAGON



I wasn't aware we had one (sounds very practical - why waste time banding when you can cut to the chase and get bashing?). Most criticisms of that site I can recall are associated with specific reviews that would be pulled up similarly were they written here. Everyone knows the place is a mixed bag.

Besides, "wahhh u bandwagonin" is the archetypal crutch begging for a boot.

[BIL]

I notice Dragon Fighter (FC/NES) doesn't seem to enjoy the profile of Kage and Solbrain's overseas releases. I didn't get to play either of the latter two in the 90s, and didn't even bother emulating them until well into the 00s, but I'd always heard praise of them at both points. I didn't know DF even existed, let alone was developed by Natsume until Macaw's topic last year. Interesting that it was released simultaneously with Kage in Japan, but a year afterward and not by Natsume themselves in the US.

Anyway, I really like this game! Its level designs aren't as sophisticated as Kage's or Solbrain's, with more flat ground and open space. But it keeps lots of enemies onscreen, and they tend to be hyper-aggressive. Like Kage, you've only one life bar and mistakes sting, keeping the pressure on. The game's showpiece mechanic is a kill-fuelled super meter for timed dragon transformations, turning it into an autoscrolling hori shooter. The three shot powerups (spread, bomber, homing) correspond to powerful charge attacks in human form - interestingly, these cost no meter, but just like dragon kills they don't build any either. Only up close and personal sword kills contribute, so over-reliance on chargers will limit or prevent dragon time. Well-considered game design. Dragon mode is mostly a fun alternative to hacking down baddies, but a handful of later points really call for it. The penultimate stage genuinely plays like a shooter while in dragon mode, with its swarming flying enemies and laser turrets, and is considerably tougher while on the ground.

A great hack and slasher complement to the more methodical sidescrolling of Kage and Solbrain. The fast combat and less complex stage design make this more suited to reflexive play than its companions, and its controls and overall handling are just as superb. Great soundtrack too, just like Kage, Solbrain, Abadox, Final Mission, Wild Guns, The Ninja Warriors Again and the SFC Kiki Kaikais. I love Natsume.

It finally clicked this evening that Metal Storm developer Tamtex (Irem subsidiary) were also credited with Spartan X2. Their name isn't on the latter's title screen, you see! At first I went "bah gawd, how they forget teh loop after MS's sublimely consolised arcade game design?" But it turns out SX2 was the earlier game. On revisiting I'm vaguely enticed - some of its hits are incredibly satisfying - but the only way it won't ultimately feel vacant is to self-impose a Kage style "one lifebar only" rule. This creates at least some pressure, since like Kage you only recover a limited amount of life between rounds and restore items can be scarce. A hugely under-performing game that could've been the FC's The Ninja Warriors Again with the right direction, but it's possible to get some fun out of it. Seems fairly expensive from a quick look around online, more than its worth as a Spartan-style game for sure with the FC original, Irem Arcade Classics and PCE Vigilante all superior and cheaper alternatives.

This move is so cool. Think you've got me pinned down you projectile prick?!



"Trust me I know what I'm doing bro! GAHHH"

[BrianC]

I'm not sure if I just got unlucky twice, but the diagonal jump seems to be much easier to do on the NES version of Kung Fu than the arcade version.

Edit: I tried the arcade version in mame. The running jump is done by pressing up while runnning, so it wasn't a problem with the joystick on the two machines I played (one in NYC and one in MD).

wow. I didn't realise how much the US Dragon Fighter went for. ouch. Is the JP one as expensive as the US one?