From Software 'n such

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Blinge
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Some messy thoughts on Shadow Tower.

The horror & experimental variant of the existing KF formula.
Sound familiar?

No idea what the story is, some mercenary guy returns to his hometown to find it gone, with the inverted shadow tower underground.
Decides that he misses some old lady's home cooking so wanders in with just a dinky shortsword.
After finishing it I didn't know why any of this had happened. I think the final boss was the king? Again I don't know.

Visuals are a bit more interesting than the parent series, at least there are now different textures for floors, ceilings, and some furniture/ STUFF that isn't multitudes of gravestones.

No music, but the atmosphere is foreboding as fuck, especially as you could easily be one shot by the next enemy.
Ambient noise, and the enemies' idling sounds add to this too.
Enemy design adds to the dread: some baddies are garden variety spooky, some are grotesque, hints of Eldritch..

Combat is King's Field style again, character has a fast walk speed but no run ability. You can easily run rings around nearly every enemy, again.
The difficulty comes from environmental hazards, or groups of enemies with strong projectiles! Like multi-hitting lasers in rooms with nowhere to hide, that can insta-kill you especially in the early game.
They also go through walls..

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Oh and not to mention, one part had me walk through a door and loading screen, which chucked me immediately into some ice-turrets line of fire, which wiped out 70% of my health and killed me very, very quickly. :roll:
Possibly the worst thing is how some enemies can respawn right next to you and come out swinging. I took some absolute BS damage because of that.

The game's weapon durability mechanic is the most punishing I've ever seen.
Early on you can easily have nothing but a selection of broken weapons.
After the first 3-4 'worlds' the game gets into its stride: merchants that sap your HP to fix weapons are the safe checkpoints of the game really - while there are more numerous savepoints scattered around, the merchants are your HQ.

I spent a lot of time faffing around using all my life to fix my best gear, before chugging a full heal to fix more.
It's annoying to manage but i think overall it works; doesn't ruin the experience.

Although as if the durability wasn't hard enough to manage: the "Water" world just means pools and pools of corrosive acid that break your armour. It did feel like the game was taking the piss at this point.

The boss fights were kinda decent actually, more so than KF1-3.
There was something unique to several of them at least.
The fact that I can't remember the final boss probably tells you all you need to know.

There's decent item descriptions and lore for every enemy in the game - something usually seen as a hallmark of Souls so it's interesting to see it appear so far into From's past.

Overall I'd say King's Field games are better than Shadow Tower 1.
Real masochistic dungeon crawlers may enjoy this one more, however.
KF gave me more reasons to care and was generally more enjoyable.
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Obscura
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

Grab the translation patch and play Shadow Tower: Abyss. From's best game, IMO.
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Blinge
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Oh I will, after Eternal Ring has whimpered its last.

Also despite earlier complaints I'm currently obsessed with From's actual best game - on ps4 :wink:
I think you'd like Bloodborne, man. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it.
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Obscura
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

I wish I could play Bloodborne -- everything I've read about it makes me think I'd like it more than the Souls games, aside from the slightly questionable decision to fully remove Estus and go with a fully Lifegem-style system. Sadly, no PS4.

(Speaking of things I need to play, Demon's is now at near 100% in RPCS3. I'm travelling too much for work to really get started on a big gaming undertaking, but when I've got the time, I need to give that a whirl.)
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Sumez
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

Obscura wrote:aside from the slightly questionable decision to fully remove Estus and go with a fully Lifegem-style system.
There's absolutely no excuse for this. At least the game limits how many healing items you can bring from the hub, but having to farm for them is obnoxious.

Apart from that, the game is almost as good as Dark Souls 3. I think it's biggest flaw might not be the lack of "estus", but the game's overall lack of variation. You never get much of a sense of progression, compared to the sprawling map of Dark Souls 1, taking you across vastly differently themed areas which always offered some sort of connection.
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Blinge
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Re: Bloodborne Vials

Post by Blinge »

I mean yeah, they're the most like lifegems - but they aren't life gems.
Health regain is instant and you pop them fast. Enemies drop them near constantly.
There's usually a hard limit of 20 you can have equipped.

However yes, there were at least two bosses where I was completely out and had to stop my re-attempts so I could go and farm them/and spend all blechoes on more vials. That is pretty obnoxious. The game should give you at least 5 with every respawn perhaps.

My preferred farming route was either piggies in YaBoi hidden village.. Or starting at Great Bridge, taking out the oaf and wolves, dropping down the broken stairs to the other 2 oafs before heading back to Central Yharnam Lantern; convenient little loop.
I'd do this about 4 times max so I never found it tedious- probably cause it's just that enjoyable to move and fight.
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Sumez
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

Yeah it wasn't as bad as in Demon's Souls, but the fact that you even had to do it at all felt like a slap in the face compared to the ingenious estus system established already two games back.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Immryr »

If you're only interested in the first play through then yeah, the blood vials thing can suck, but it has no impact on repeat plays. I've never come close to running out of vials other than on my first play through.

The feeling of progression is definitely a bit weird in bloodborne, I think it's mostly due to how many of the bosses are optional. You only have to beat something like 6 of the bosses to complete the game. Somehow the game is very linear and non linear at the same time. It's odd.
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Bananamatic
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Bananamatic »

where the fuck is armored core 6
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Blinge
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Orphan.

Sweet Jesus on a Stick..
met him for the first time in NG+
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Immryr
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Immryr »

Yeah I first did the dlc in ng+ too, it's a really great fight! It actually wasn't the boss I found hardest in the dlc first time round....... Definitely took a fair few tries though.

I've started a new bs job. Working 9-5, which sucks. Haven't had much of a chance to continue my new playthrough. I think I've only killed 3 bosses and one chalice boss so far.
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Blinge
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Amygdala in the defiled Pthumeru is tearing me a new one currently.
One-shot city. I'm not good enough to avoid a single hit for a long time..

ANYWAY

From's new teaser
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Durandal
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Durandal »

Blinge wrote:Amygdala in the defiled Pthumeru is tearing me a new one currently.
One-shot city. I'm not good enough to avoid a single hit for a long time..

ANYWAY

From's new teaser
Looks like a new Tenchu to me
Xyga wrote:
chum wrote:the thing is that we actually go way back and have known each other on multiple websites, first clashing in a Naruto forum.
Liar. I've known you only from latexmachomen.com and pantysniffers.org forums.
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rapoon
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by rapoon »

Blinge wrote:Amygdala in the defiled Pthumeru is tearing me a new one currently.
One-shot city. I'm not good enough to avoid a single hit for a long time..

ANYWAY

From's new teaser
on her third stage (when she starts jumping), you can try staying behind her and hitting her tail. relatively 'safe' (you still die in 2 hits).
after playing the game of positioning myself between her feet when she jumps only to be squashed when I had her down ~2-3% health,
I go the safe route. after her, you're gravy with the rest of the game. that fight is an exercise in masochism.

recently went through demon souls (hadn't played since it was released). I had forgotten how punishing it is. something else I'd forgotten was how
unique some of the movesets are: sweeping attacks, and the spear attacks, notably 1h heavy (you position the spear above your shoulder and ram it forward).
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Blinge
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Durandal wrote: From's new teaser
Looks like a new Tenchu to me[/quote]

Hope not.
Was Tenchu as grim and gory as whatever the hell i'm looking at in that teaser?

I'm thinking Shadow Tower sequel personally.
Fear not Obscura - this has bumped abyss several games forward in my list.
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Re: From Software 'n such

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Sumez
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

From finally making a new Shadow Tower would be a dream for me. But it's probably just gonna be Tenchu >_>

Or Sony paying them to do Bloodborne 2.
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Blinge
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Are the old tenchus worth playing?
They look arse in the few seconds of gameplay I just watched, though that's not a good indicator.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

They are super boring.

I've never played the ones made by From, though.
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Obscura
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

Damn, between "Shadows Die Twice", the general aesthetic, and the fact that Miyazaki said he wanted to make a souls-like experience in VR (which would mean first person), I was getting totally hype for Shadow Tower 3. Sad to hear it's probably just Tenchu.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Udderdude »

Sumez wrote:They are super boring.

I've never played the ones made by From, though.
I dunno, the PS2 version doesn't look that bad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBjsWwl7kBQ
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by rapoon »

Udderdude wrote:
Sumez wrote:They are super boring.

I've never played the ones made by From, though.
I dunno, the PS2 version doesn't look that bad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBjsWwl7kBQ

The first 4 (2 x PSX, 2 x PS2) are fantastic.

The only Tenchu From developed from the ground up was 'Shadow Assault: Tenchu'. Their remaining contribution to the series were ports or as publisher.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

Obscura wrote:Damn, between "Shadows Die Twice", the general aesthetic, and the fact that Miyazaki said he wanted to make a souls-like experience in VR (which would mean first person), I was getting totally hype for Shadow Tower 3. Sad to hear it's probably just Tenchu.
Wow, I hope it's not a VR thing.
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Immryr
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Immryr »

i hope it's a new ip, but i'm pretty hyped no matter what it is. unless it's vr.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Don't be talking about VR. You're gonna make me sick.
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Obscura
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

Unless they make it VR-only -- which they won't, it's still too niche -- I'm fine with them going back to first person so they can facilitate VR for those who want it.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Shadow Tower psx.

Although if you say it's better than dark souls i will fite u
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

Haven't played it. I've never really been able to stomach the KF games. ST:A is far smoother and more polished (and less grindy) than the KFs, and from what I've heard, the first Shadow Tower does not share that polish.
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Blinge
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

While that's fair, I'm not sure what you mean by grindy.
I don't think you need to grind at all in KF2-4 at least.

Unless you meant the game is a slog in general.

And yes, definitely no polish in ST..

Edit: zomg just visceral'd then finished Ebrietas ng+ off with a fully charged Whirligig Saw doublehanded R2
I nutted.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Obscura »

Yeah, "grindy" was probably a bad choice of words; I meant it in the sense that "combat tends to bog down and be a real grind", not "grind for levels".

The impression that KF4 left me before I ran away screaming was walk forward -> swing -> walk backwards -> wait for bar to recharge -> repeat for like an hour on each of those worm enemies near the start. ST:A generally moves much quicker. That's not to say it's fast -- it's probably slower than any Souls game -- but enemies don't take ages to chop through like they do in KF.
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