From Software 'n such

[Blinge]

switch to something that maps both mobility and both arm weapons to shoulder buttons/triggers so you can shoot, aim and move at the same time easily, that goes for every AC
save the face buttons for stuff like shoulder weapons/overboost

Alright so i tried having guns on L1/R1 and quickboost on the triggers. Too much of a mindfuck.
Game felt like i needed more fingers than I have.

I'm too used to using X/Square to fire now I guess. I went back to that system, just laying my thumb over both buttons.
It's kinda dumb , holding X with the middle of my thumb while tapping square with the tip.

So i loaded save and did the last 3 missions myself without cheese strats. Still feel like i haven't beat the game
I fucked with the mech for a solid half hour till I had a more effective machine.
Permaflight helped a lot, although if you lose lock-on, left stick no longer strafes? which means the boosters dont engage and I fall like a sack of shit. Unless i have the wherewithal to hold the fly button down again, which usually launches me way too high!

I used gatling guns/ high Act missiles/ relation missile combo to get the win. Most of the other weapons seem useless to me.
I've never managed to hit an enemy NEXT with a Kojima cannon, or melee wep. I'd love to use a damn sword, but those enemies are on screen for like 2 frames before disappearing.

A subjective problem i have with the game is the feel of combat. Floaty and disconnected. If i get hit by something huge, I only know by looking at the numbers. Sometimes i take steady damage from popcorn without realising fast enough. If I manage to kill something, there isn't any tactile feedback.. often i don't know for certain i've won until their death-message finally kicks in.

Ah yeah Immryr, I didn't do enough of the Collared matches I think. I've heard now that beating them unlocks more equipment.

[Blinge]

https://youtu.be/5T8nb45F-v8

Someone made Dark Souls 2 look like King's Field IV. pretty nito, I'd play it.

[Imhotep]

I've finished the first King's Field (JP only) this week. I loved it, it's slowness and "datedness" didn't affect my enjoyment, the game felt meaningful as a whole. I really enjoyed being left at the morbid, otherworldly graveyard / temple and to explore it freely with little to no direction given and just a fragment of a story told.
The story itself is interesting and revealed in a very segmented, minimalistic way. It feels exciting to approach and in the process learn about the brooding evil on the lower floors.

I had trouble running a burnt iso with the translated version, it crashed like 50% when trying to select a save slot. Loading the game with the original game disc, then swapping to the burnt cd in game did the trick, stable game and relevant texts in english.

The game was released 12 months after the original Doom btw, it's quite old!

8/10


I've also played through King's Field 2 earlier this year (KF1 in the west), that game is even better. I absolutely loved the atmosphere and general hostility of the island, combined with the freedom given to the player to make the exploration a personal, painful and meaningful experience.

8.5/10


I'm glad there's still some games in the series (and spin offs) left to be played, I'm intrigued by King's Field.

[kitten]

I'm glad there's still some games in the series (and spin offs) left to be played, I'm intrigued by King's Field.

unfortunately, the series kind of peaks with 2 (1US). 3's world doesn't feel as crafted and the amount of changes that go into place to make combat slower & more agonizing really begin to weigh on you almost immediately.

4 is pretty good, but retains the obnoxious slowness. still have yet to finish either, each time i pick them up i get a decent length in and then trail off, wishing that they were 2. i'm actually currently trudging through 3 with my bff acting as my "AD". she grew up with the series and has the games memorized and has been aching for me to finish something other 2 for ages.

by most accounts, shadow tower is not very good and tends to be considered highly obtuse, but shadow tower abyss is often considered to be high quality and the bridge between king's field and demon's souls. a shame that it never got released stateside, as it has been reported it was fully localized before fromsoft told them not to go ahead with the publishing.

there's also eternal ring, which feels almost like from software made their very own dojin game based on the king's field series' play mechanics. another one i sadly trailed off while playing, but its combat is at least, from what i recall, more fast-paced. lacks in the brooding world-building that the others excel in, however.

not at all suggesting you give up exploring the series further, but just suggesting you possibly temper your expectations to avoid potential disappointment.

[evil_ash_xero]

Aww....I was hoping this thread had some information about From's new games.

I mean, they need to take their time, after the rush of games that came out of them recently....but I would like some tidbits.

[Sumez]

by most accounts, shadow tower is not very good and tends to be considered highly obtuse, but shadow tower abyss is often considered to be high quality and the bridge between king's field and demon's souls. a shame that it never got released stateside, as it has been reported it was fully localized before fromsoft told them not to go ahead with the publishing.

I could never get into any of the KF games, not even 4. I find both Shadow Tower games much more approachable. Especially Abyss. There's a fan translation out there.

[Blinge]

That's great Imhotep! I'm glad someone else liked it.

I would definitely recommend you play KF3 now, lorewise it's a great upping of stakes and end to the trilogy.

Kitten makes good points here but I don't agree entirely.

3's world doesn't feel as crafted and the amount of changes that go into place to make combat slower & more agonizing really begin to weigh on you almost immediately.

Correct on the world. 3 goes for a broader world while sacrificing the in-depth design and interconnectivity of 2.
It's like Dark Souls II compared to its predecessor!
Some areas are very bland, but a veritable feast compared to.. Eternal Ring.

I'm not sure what you mean about combat slower in KF3, I thought it was the same as 2 tbh.
They did try improving the enemies so you can't run rings around them and circle strafe/backstab them to death as easily as you can in KF2. However it suffers from the same effect as 1/2 - you're an absolute killing machine by the end and not much can challenge you.

4 is pretty good, but retains the obnoxious slowness.

I think IV as good, if not better than II. The evolution of From's level design is really there (it really picks up once you enter the city proper). The story is standalone and way more obscure than the other games, I'm still not sure of exactly what happened.
However yes, you move slower in IV than any of the others. It's also the hardest imo, and the most successful in making the combat engaging - which is quite a feat considering first person melee combat is generally pretty bad in any game.
You have to play very deliberately.

there's also eternal ring, which feels almost like from software made their very own dojin game based on the king's field series' play mechanics. another one i sadly trailed off while playing, but its combat is at least, from what i recall, more fast-paced. lacks in the brooding world-building that the others excel in, however.

Ah I've started this recently, After a long time wandering the poison cave with no items and making it through the limestone caves similarly unequipped I've finally got to the refinery? Can't remember its real name.
This game blows, so far. I think the combat is terrible: lack of a stamina bar - pokey little melee attacks because they want you to focus on magic.
The ring system seems very unwieldy.
The ability of enemies to about-face instantly and goofy hitboxes aren't a great solution to the problem of a faster player character being able to circle strafe.
The world design seems terribu. Big empty halls of nothing - quite hard to navigate actually.

I beat Shadow Tower a few months ago, i'll come back and share my thoughts on that later.

Also in Bloodborne this morning I screwed myself out of fighting the final boss, so there's that.

[Immryr]

i haven't got round to KF 3 or 4 but i loved the first two. 4 i've been trying to buy on ebay for ages but keep getting outbid or when i forget to bid on a copy it tends to go for peanuts.... i'll get it one day.

eternal ring i actually enjoyed, but i played it before playing the king's field games. i don't remember too much about it though.


@blinge did you let him just chop your head off? ah well, you're going to want to replay it anyway

[Blinge]

Alas Immy, that's what happened.

I was playing blind and just thought "hurrhurr, wonder what happens if I say yes."
I guess I got what I asked for.

I didn't think there'd be a game from recent FromSoft that allows you to simply end the game with a whimper, no final boss! Felt like a total twat all of yesterday.
For me, the final boss of Bloodborne was Mergo's Wetnurse
Mensis nightmare didn't seem an epic enough conclusion to me cause I understood so little of what was going on.
What didn't help is me leaving after cagehead troll to go and find cainhurst.. that probably broke up the sense of progression even more

To make matters worse, a friend had led me to believe that you can "choose when to go to NG+" when I asked about DLC..
So I haven't touched Old Hunters yet and will be doing so in NG+ I guess - cause that's quicker than starting again, I'm also too attached to this character. Squire has protested at my decision already.

Still, i'm doing the early chalices that i'm way overlevelled for just cause. I'm a dungeon crawler and trophy whore at heart, I dont mind the repetition (yet). It also gives me a chance to piss about with other weapons.
Who the hell got gud with the torture wheel!?

[Blinge]

Been ass-blastin' my way through the Pthuwey chalices lately.

Started to struggle vs crowds and bosses in lower Pthuwey level 3, so I had to leave the KockHammer behind and go back to old faithful Cleaver.

My question is this, if the boss of lower Pthulu Chalice is Rom, then doesn't that mean someone could feasibly see Rom for the first time there instead of where you're supposed to meet in the main game?
Wouldn't that suck?

[Squire Grooktook]

Chalices tend to be gated off by certain materials IIRC. Which should ensure that you can't get to some bosses early.

Mensis nightmare didn't seem an epic enough conclusion to me cause I understood so little of what was going on.

For the record, a lot of people feel that way even with the other two endings. But the subtle details and theories of Bloodbornes world and story unfold even more with multiple playthroughs, to the point that it ended up becoming my favorite From world (and game) with a perfect climax.

[Blinge]

Chalices tend to be gated off by certain materials IIRC. Which should ensure that you can't get to some bosses early.

Is this absolutely confirmed anywhere though?

[Squire Grooktook]

Chalices tend to be gated off by certain materials IIRC. Which should ensure that you can't get to some bosses early.

Is this absolutely confirmed anywhere though?

You need materials to activate a chalice, and some of those materials drop in very specific places. That much is fact.

[Blinge]

All you need to start lower Pthumeru is 9x Ritual Blood (3)

According to wikis you can find this quite reliably in any depth 2 dungeon.
So I see no reason why a new player couldn't fight Rom early and kind of.. ruin things.

[Immryr]

Yeah you could get to rom in the chalice dungeons before you get to him in the main game. It's hard to imagine anyone would trudge through them that far while they could be advancing the main game, but definitely possible.

I've just started a new game of bloodborne myself. Haven't played it in quite a while and I've probably completed it less than any other souls game for some reason. I also haven't ever done all of the chalice dungeons either so I still have a fair bit of unfinished business with the game.

Haven't decided what weapon I'm ultimately going for yet but I'm levelling strength so far......

[Blinge]

Some messy thoughts on Shadow Tower.

The horror & experimental variant of the existing KF formula.
Sound familiar?

No idea what the story is, some mercenary guy returns to his hometown to find it gone, with the inverted shadow tower underground.
Decides that he misses some old lady's home cooking so wanders in with just a dinky shortsword.
After finishing it I didn't know why any of this had happened. I think the final boss was the king? Again I don't know.

Visuals are a bit more interesting than the parent series, at least there are now different textures for floors, ceilings, and some furniture/ STUFF that isn't multitudes of gravestones.

No music, but the atmosphere is foreboding as fuck, especially as you could easily be one shot by the next enemy.
Ambient noise, and the enemies' idling sounds add to this too.
Enemy design adds to the dread: some baddies are garden variety spooky, some are grotesque, hints of Eldritch..

Combat is King's Field style again, character has a fast walk speed but no run ability. You can easily run rings around nearly every enemy, again.
The difficulty comes from environmental hazards, or groups of enemies with strong projectiles! Like multi-hitting lasers in rooms with nowhere to hide, that can insta-kill you especially in the early game.
They also go through walls..



Oh and not to mention, one part had me walk through a door and loading screen, which chucked me immediately into some ice-turrets line of fire, which wiped out 70% of my health and killed me very, very quickly.
Possibly the worst thing is how some enemies can respawn right next to you and come out swinging. I took some absolute BS damage because of that.

The game's weapon durability mechanic is the most punishing I've ever seen.
Early on you can easily have nothing but a selection of broken weapons.
After the first 3-4 'worlds' the game gets into its stride: merchants that sap your HP to fix weapons are the safe checkpoints of the game really - while there are more numerous savepoints scattered around, the merchants are your HQ.

I spent a lot of time faffing around using all my life to fix my best gear, before chugging a full heal to fix more.
It's annoying to manage but i think overall it works; doesn't ruin the experience.

Although as if the durability wasn't hard enough to manage: the "Water" world just means pools and pools of corrosive acid that break your armour. It did feel like the game was taking the piss at this point.

The boss fights were kinda decent actually, more so than KF1-3.
There was something unique to several of them at least.
The fact that I can't remember the final boss probably tells you all you need to know.

There's decent item descriptions and lore for every enemy in the game - something usually seen as a hallmark of Souls so it's interesting to see it appear so far into From's past.

Overall I'd say King's Field games are better than Shadow Tower 1.
Real masochistic dungeon crawlers may enjoy this one more, however.
KF gave me more reasons to care and was generally more enjoyable.

[Obscura]

Grab the translation patch and play Shadow Tower: Abyss. From's best game, IMO.

[Blinge]

Oh I will, after Eternal Ring has whimpered its last.

Also despite earlier complaints I'm currently obsessed with From's actual best game - on ps4
I think you'd like Bloodborne, man. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it.

[Obscura]

I wish I could play Bloodborne -- everything I've read about it makes me think I'd like it more than the Souls games, aside from the slightly questionable decision to fully remove Estus and go with a fully Lifegem-style system. Sadly, no PS4.

(Speaking of things I need to play, Demon's is now at near 100% in RPCS3. I'm travelling too much for work to really get started on a big gaming undertaking, but when I've got the time, I need to give that a whirl.)

[Sumez]

aside from the slightly questionable decision to fully remove Estus and go with a fully Lifegem-style system.

There's absolutely no excuse for this. At least the game limits how many healing items you can bring from the hub, but having to farm for them is obnoxious.

Apart from that, the game is almost as good as Dark Souls 3. I think it's biggest flaw might not be the lack of "estus", but the game's overall lack of variation. You never get much of a sense of progression, compared to the sprawling map of Dark Souls 1, taking you across vastly differently themed areas which always offered some sort of connection.

[Blinge]

I mean yeah, they're the most like lifegems - but they aren't life gems.
Health regain is instant and you pop them fast. Enemies drop them near constantly.
There's usually a hard limit of 20 you can have equipped.

However yes, there were at least two bosses where I was completely out and had to stop my re-attempts so I could go and farm them/and spend all blechoes on more vials. That is pretty obnoxious. The game should give you at least 5 with every respawn perhaps.

My preferred farming route was either piggies in YaBoi hidden village.. Or starting at Great Bridge, taking out the oaf and wolves, dropping down the broken stairs to the other 2 oafs before heading back to Central Yharnam Lantern; convenient little loop.
I'd do this about 4 times max so I never found it tedious- probably cause it's just that enjoyable to move and fight.

[Sumez]

Yeah it wasn't as bad as in Demon's Souls, but the fact that you even had to do it at all felt like a slap in the face compared to the ingenious estus system established already two games back.

[Immryr]

If you're only interested in the first play through then yeah, the blood vials thing can suck, but it has no impact on repeat plays. I've never come close to running out of vials other than on my first play through.

The feeling of progression is definitely a bit weird in bloodborne, I think it's mostly due to how many of the bosses are optional. You only have to beat something like 6 of the bosses to complete the game. Somehow the game is very linear and non linear at the same time. It's odd.

[Bananamatic]

where the fuck is armored core 6

[Blinge]

Orphan.

Sweet Jesus on a Stick..
met him for the first time in NG+

[Immryr]

Yeah I first did the dlc in ng+ too, it's a really great fight! It actually wasn't the boss I found hardest in the dlc first time round....... Definitely took a fair few tries though.

I've started a new bs job. Working 9-5, which sucks. Haven't had much of a chance to continue my new playthrough. I think I've only killed 3 bosses and one chalice boss so far.

[Blinge]

Amygdala in the defiled Pthumeru is tearing me a new one currently.
One-shot city. I'm not good enough to avoid a single hit for a long time..

ANYWAY

From's new teaser

[Durandal]

Amygdala in the defiled Pthumeru is tearing me a new one currently.
One-shot city. I'm not good enough to avoid a single hit for a long time..

ANYWAY

From's new teaser

Looks like a new Tenchu to me

[rapoon]

Amygdala in the defiled Pthumeru is tearing me a new one currently.
One-shot city. I'm not good enough to avoid a single hit for a long time..

ANYWAY

From's new teaser

on her third stage (when she starts jumping), you can try staying behind her and hitting her tail. relatively 'safe' (you still die in 2 hits).
after playing the game of positioning myself between her feet when she jumps only to be squashed when I had her down ~2-3% health,
I go the safe route. after her, you're gravy with the rest of the game. that fight is an exercise in masochism.

recently went through demon souls (hadn't played since it was released). I had forgotten how punishing it is. something else I'd forgotten was how
unique some of the movesets are: sweeping attacks, and the spear attacks, notably 1h heavy (you position the spear above your shoulder and ram it forward).

[Blinge]

From's new teaser

Looks like a new Tenchu to me[/quote]

Hope not.
Was Tenchu as grim and gory as whatever the hell i'm looking at in that teaser?

I'm thinking Shadow Tower sequel personally.
Fear not Obscura - this has bumped abyss several games forward in my list.