Interesting article on next gen

ahnslaught · Post by **ahnslaught** » Wed May 31, 2006 6:54 pm

I was looking around on Digg and found this article...it's somewhat technical in the middle when it goes on and on talking about processor architectures and other junk I don't really care for, but very interesting overall, talking about how apart from first party developers, other developers may want to make games for the lowest common denominator and stuff to recoup development costs. Kind puts a damper on the 50gb capacity of PS3, I think.

Very interesting comparison of pac man for the 2600 costing $100K to make and Halo costing $40 million and the similar successes of each, as well

Check it out: http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/ ... atform.ars

FatCobra · Post by **FatCobra** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:19 am

So who would be the lowest common denominator? I suscept it'll either be a Wii or an Xbox 360 Core owner.

Also, they can take all that flashy tech mumbo-jumbo and shove it up their places where the sun don't shine.

Vexorg · Post by **Vexorg** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:45 am

I suspect that for at least a couple of years more, the lowest common denominator (for standard commercial release games, at least) is going to be the PS2. I think it will be quite a while before the installed base of either the PS3 or 360* will be large enough to move the baseline up to that generation. That said, Xbox Live Arcade is providing a platform for indie releases to get onto the console (and making the tools to do so a lot more accessible than console devkits have been in the past.)

*I don't include the Wii here because in my opinion there's still too many unanswered questions to know exactly where it will fit into all of this. The positioning of the Wii as a second console to suppliment a 360 or PS3(intentional or not) may actually make it an attractive platform for smaller budget exclusives that would have a harder time making it on either of the other two.

ahnslaught · Post by **ahnslaught** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:54 am

I agree with Vexorg about the PS2 being the lead system. You can see it in games like hitman that just came out - the 360 version is basically the same, with better graphics and a $20 higher price tag. So, at least until 360 or ps3 gets a big share of th emarket, it's going to be this way.

The other interesting thing about the article was that the blu ray capacity is talked about like it's the greatest thing, but if the development for multiple systems by 3rd parties continues, or even grows stronger, that larger capacity won't make a difference because the games will be developed with a dvd disc in mind.

I can't remember if this was in another article or in this one, but it was also interesting where they try to guess the cost of the blu ray mechanism around $200 per unit, so that if they replaced that with a normal dvd drive and make the BD player optional like microsoft, it would bring the cost of the ps3 down to about 400-450. A pretty tempting price, I would say...

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:18 am

There is also the issue that was raised by Naughty Dog cofounder Jason Rubin in a talk he gave in 2003. He noted that in moving from the PS1 platform to the PS2, the polygon count increased by a factor of 50, the refresh rate doubled, and screen resolution increased by a factor of 2.5. Discounting new special graphical effects that were also added, this is a 250x increase in graphic detail. However, consumers did not perceive a 250-fold increase in graphics quality! From a player's point of view, the quality jump was noticeable but not earth-shattering. The leap from this generation of consoles to the next may well involve a similar increase in graphical complexity yet only a modest jump in perceived quality. While dedicated gamers will certainly notice the difference, casual gamers may have a harder time realizing exactly why the next generation is so much better than the existing one.

Rubin pointed out that this trend may actually benefit gaming in the long run. If graphical differences are no longer so profound, gamers may gravitate towards games that have new and unique game play, or have superior storytelling. Instead of bickering over technical specs like antialiasing or frame rate, future gamers may spend most of their time discussing which games moved them the most emotionally.

Oh I really wish this would come to pass! I really do!

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:46 am

Blade wrote:
Rubin pointed out that this trend may actually benefit gaming in the long run. If graphical differences are no longer so profound, gamers may gravitate towards games that have new and unique game play, or have superior storytelling. Instead of bickering over technical specs like antialiasing or frame rate, future gamers may spend most of their time discussing which games moved them the most emotionally.

Oh I really wish this would come to pass! I really do!

Good grief. I fear we're in for more low replay-value Metal Gear stuff full of story, drawn-out cutscenes, and schmaltzy endings.

New and unique types of games may not be so bad though.

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:57 am

gameoverDude wrote:New and unique types of games may not be so bad though.

That's what the Wii is here for

*insert retaliation towards anticipated naysayers here*

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:01 am

Nintendo has always had a lot of gimmicks.

Nes: R.O.B., Power Pad, Zapper.

SNES: Super Scope and Mouse. And the SFX chip to some extent.

Gameboy: GB Camera and printer.

N64: THAT DAMNED CONTROLLER AND YOU KNOW IT.

Cube: GB Player.

Wii: Remote.

DS: Touch Screen. (However this is one hell of a gimmick.)

Now, it all comes down how well they exploit that gimmick and how they integrate it into the gameplay. The DS being proof of it.

Benjamin · Post by **Benjamin** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:30 am

Specineff wrote:Nintendo has always had a lot of gimmicks.

Nes: R.O.B., Power Pad, Zapper.
SNES: Super Scope and Mouse. And the SFX chip to some extent.
Gameboy: GB Camera and printer.
N64: THAT DAMNED CONTROLLER AND YOU KNOW IT.
Cube: GB Player.
Wii: Remote.
DS: Touch Screen. (However this is one hell of a gimmick.)
Now, it all comes down how well they exploit that gimmick and how they integrate it into the gameplay. The DS being proof of it.

I hate to be one to defend Nintendo, but the only really systems that launched with/as a gimmick device is the NES, Virtual Boy, DS, and now Wii. A lot of the items you mention above are add-ons and hardly indicative of the systems' "mentality." After all, you'd be calling the Atari trackball, Coleco's steering wheel, Intellivision's Intellivoice, Sega's Activator, PSX's DualShock, and PS2's Eye and so on gimmicks, therefore making their respective consoles "gimmick systems."

Besides, many such "gimmicks" are needed to advance game control into new directions or add an element that did not previously exist. I'd say the NES can be forgiven of the ROB since it appears to have been a necessary creation to get video games back into the US market. The DS is fantastic; the Virtual Boy a dud. Wii looks interesting but I'll have to see if anything truly new comes of it. So far I just see it as a controller that doubles as a lightgun.

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:41 am

Despite the Virtual Boy being ill-concieved i still found it to be quite entertaining. It wasn't the idea that sucked - it was the execution. If they had waited for a day... like today - where a lightweight device could have strapped to the user's face and advanced 'power gloves

' could have been used as controllers then the system wouldn't have failed so... miserably.

Basically it was a rushed reaction to the Virtual Reality buzz that was flying around back then. Thankfully it's failure warded off almost all of the inevitable crap VR headsets we would surely have seen by now, so we have Nintendo to thank for that.

I say... they should give it another go but this time do it right.

They've won our trust back with the DS, why shouldn't they be so bold? (i know they won't of course

)

benj · Post by **benj** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:06 am

circuitface wrote:Despite the Virtual Boy being ill-concieved i still found it to be quite entertaining. It wasn't the idea that sucked - it was the execution. If they had waited for a day... like today - where a lightweight device could have strapped to the user's face and advanced 'power gloves ' could have been used as controllers then the system wouldn't have failed so... miserably.

That would indeed be great. Especially for hentai games.

FRO · Post by **FRO** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:30 pm

Specineff wrote:Nintendo has always had a lot of gimmicks.

Nes: R.O.B., Power Pad, Zapper.

SNES: Super Scope and Mouse. And the SFX chip to some extent.

Gameboy: GB Camera and printer.

N64: THAT DAMNED CONTROLLER AND YOU KNOW IT.

Cube: GB Player.

Wii: Remote.

DS: Touch Screen. (However this is one hell of a gimmick.)

Now, it all comes down how well they exploit that gimmick and how they integrate it into the gameplay. The DS being proof of it.

You forgot the Super Gameboy for SNES. But yeah, I agree w/ the N64 comment 100%. That controller was gimmicky, uncomfortable, & unweildly. One of the many reasons I waited to buy an N64 until I could get it ultra-cheap. Although I'm fighting w/ a crappy 3rd party controller instead of the decent Nintendo-brand. I do, however, have to defend the Gameboy Player. I own one & think it's great. I mean, playing Iridion II on the big-screen is much more satisfying than on the tiny GBA screen. Other GB games have seen new life in my house since the GB Player came into the picture (Super Mario Land, Castlevania Adventure).

UnscathedFlyingObject · Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:44 pm

If there's anything good about the touchscreen, it is that it sells DS's. I can't believe how many people got excited just 'cause of a touchscreen. I mean, gee, half or more of the games that use the touch screen can be done without it and better. But 'neways, I'm happy enough with the game selection.

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:39 pm

I just hope the Wiimote doesn't turn into a glorified Powerglove.

FatCobra · Post by **FatCobra** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:19 pm

Blade wrote:I just hope the Wiimote doesn't turn into a glorified Powerglove.

Oooohh, man the Powerglove sucked. I tried to use it to play Super Mario Bros, and Mario would not respond to my flailing about.

Well, technolgy has gotten better, and I think Nintendo has some cool things in store for it's goofy remote controller. I mean, everyone scoffed at the DS, but look how well its doing.

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 10:47 pm

benj wrote:
circuitface wrote:Despite the Virtual Boy being ill-concieved i still found it to be quite entertaining. It wasn't the idea that sucked - it was the execution. If they had waited for a day... like today - where a lightweight device could have strapped to the user's face and advanced 'power gloves ' could have been used as controllers then the system wouldn't have failed so... miserably.
That would indeed be great. Especially for hentai games.

You're my hero

But yeah, stereoscopic display with hundreds of millions of textured polygons...

And to add to that, gyroscopic sensors in the headpiece, so it's like you can turn your head (like shoulder-checking in a driving game) and the display changes!