...but i think this is it. For me at least - i think this new generation of hardware marks the beginning of the 3d gaming worlds '16-bit era'.
When the PS1 was first released i was quite dissapointed. I had already played some 3d Saturn games and had fun with them... but nothing had really matched up to the 2d stuff that was coming out back then. Remember Astal? That was a beautiful game - and it felt good to play. Compare the look of that world to say... Toshinden, which at that time was considered to have phenomenal graphics.
It doesn't really match up in elegance and beauty, does it?
What i'm saying is that 3d games have progressed forward from that time in the same way that 2d games moved from the dinky, blocky looks of the Atari 2600. From there they went on to the mediocre appearance of NES games and then to the nice, detailed sprites and backgrounds of the Genesis.
From what i've seen so far of upcoming PS3 and 360 titles i would say that this same progression has been made for the 3d era, and taking the Wii into account, the controls have moved forward with it. We've seen hints of it - my first being a few of the boss dragons from the Japan-only X-Box game Magatama and then on to the lush, interactive environments of Otogi 2. How about the majesty that is Resident Evil 4?
But those were only hints. Some of this new stuff looks to be shaping into the real deal. The games look... solid. Not real - but solid. I would say 3d graphics are beginning to match up in beauty to the hand drawn art we were seeing a decade ago.
Doom 3 kind of started this trend. Quake 4 improved on it a bit and now we have Oblivion and the upcoming Dark Messiah. The graphics in these games are amazing to say the least. Especially when compared to the early days of 3d gaming. To me it seems an advancment akin to that of Gunstar Heroes over Centipede. The new systems are capable of handling those games almost perfect even as FIRST GEN titles. Imagine what we'll be seeing a couple of years down the road.
Shit, even that Ghost Recon game is impressing me, and that's saying ALOT. Today i saw screenshots of Rainbow Six Las Vegas and i almost cried because i didn't want to like it. If that's what we can expect from regular ole' stuff imagine what Konami and Capcom are going to throw at us later on.
As i mentioned before, Nintendo is paving the way for advancement in control as well. Undoubtedly Sony and Microsoft will follow suite somewhere down the line - now imagine an intuitive control mechanism coupled with solid, beautiful graphics even better than the first gen games we've already seen. From what i understand Sony already hopped a little with the official PS3 controller (not the batarang one).
I really think we are going to like what's coming. The same way we liked Mega Turrican, Forgotten Worlds, Golden Axe, Demon's Crest, Strider, and on and on and on.
The only thing we have to worry about is STYLE. Can we expect that developers will drop the cliche' crap we've been putting up with in our game stories for the last decade and start giving us cool worlds to explore again? Have they learned their lesson with Shadow the Hedgehog and the countless 'urban crime' crap-fests we've been rejecting as of late or will that continue on for long?
I don't know about you - but i'd much rather be controlling a ripped badass with a jetpack blasting strange off-kilter alien sphinx's with a laser cannon than listening to some boring slang-ridden dialouge between my street wise hipster thug and over-dramatic vampire chick with huge boobs.
I understand that some of you may not agree, but keep in mind that empty promises have made us all a little jaded - even at that, no amount of corporate bullshitting can take away from the fact that TOO HUMAN LOOKS F'IN SWEET.
Forgive me if this sounds foolish...
Forgive me if this sounds foolish...
Godzilla was an inside job
Is it just me or does level size in 3d decrease with every advance in technology? It's just 5-10 hour games weren't as commonplace on the PS like they seem to be now. With my mediocre skills I should not be able to play through a game in 2 days.
Racing games always benefit from graphics upgrades, but many other genres? It just takes up too much resources unless it's guaranteed to be a huge success.
Racing games always benefit from graphics upgrades, but many other genres? It just takes up too much resources unless it's guaranteed to be a huge success.
Of course not.Can we expect that developers will drop the cliche' crap
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neorichieb1971
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Style in games is very important imo. See, in the 3D world everyone is using the same type of tool to paint with. It is also common for early games in a generation cycle to be shallow and use basic concepts. This is by no means a bad thing, Ridge racer is often a launch franchise and I think its great.
But like most consoles, the adaptation to big gigantic worlds where the attraction is the "style" rather than the "graphics", this comes much later on. I like games where there is a signature feel to it, where I know from its teams predecessing titles that a certain feel or involvement will ensue.
For me its the magic in games which impresses, and magic can be made using much simpler forms of hardware than Xbox 360. Music, story, time period, location and a character driven interface is where the magic lies.
In movie terms think -
Alien
Braveheart
Star Wars
Harry Potter
Lord of the rings
In games think -
God Of War
SOtC
Ico
Rez
Halo
Zelda
Mario
My favorite games are in worlds the creator allowed me to visit through the interface of a videogame console. And what a wonderful world it is, no matter how many polygons there are in it.
But like most consoles, the adaptation to big gigantic worlds where the attraction is the "style" rather than the "graphics", this comes much later on. I like games where there is a signature feel to it, where I know from its teams predecessing titles that a certain feel or involvement will ensue.
For me its the magic in games which impresses, and magic can be made using much simpler forms of hardware than Xbox 360. Music, story, time period, location and a character driven interface is where the magic lies.
In movie terms think -
Alien
Braveheart
Star Wars
Harry Potter
Lord of the rings
In games think -
God Of War
SOtC
Ico
Rez
Halo
Zelda
Mario
My favorite games are in worlds the creator allowed me to visit through the interface of a videogame console. And what a wonderful world it is, no matter how many polygons there are in it.
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.
I think the blood in the next gansta game for the next gen has 196 shades of red.
At the end of the day most people are morons and all the moaning we do isn't going to do a damn thing. Most people on the internet are like beavis and butthead, everythings fag or gay and they either talk like they've fallen out of a poorly made tron film or a 50cent video.
Frightening. Try and convince those guys to play anything that isn't a gore fest or ultra realistic sports.
There can't be another next gen after this. The consoles are powerful enough as it is. Otherwise you would have to be running sweatshops just to draw the games.
At the end of the day most people are morons and all the moaning we do isn't going to do a damn thing. Most people on the internet are like beavis and butthead, everythings fag or gay and they either talk like they've fallen out of a poorly made tron film or a 50cent video.
Frightening. Try and convince those guys to play anything that isn't a gore fest or ultra realistic sports.
There can't be another next gen after this. The consoles are powerful enough as it is. Otherwise you would have to be running sweatshops just to draw the games.
"When we were talking to one of the executives at the BBC. And he said, 'Now hold on, this man is so incompetent why wouldn't he be fired?' and I said 'Go and take a look around this building. Just go and knock on a few doors.'" - Ricky Gervais
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Fighter17
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Ditto. In this current-gen of hardware I'm already seeing the next M.U.S.H.A, Gunstar Heros, and more (in terms of good games that're not selling).99pence wrote:I think the blood in the next gansta game for the next gen has 196 shades of red.
At the end of the day most people are morons and all the moaning we do isn't going to do a damn thing. Most people on the internet are like beavis and butthead, everythings fag or gay and they either talk like they've fallen out of a poorly made tron film or a 50cent video.
Frightening. Try and convince those guys to play anything that isn't a gore fest or ultra realistic sports.
There can't be another next gen after this. The consoles are powerful enough as it is. Otherwise you would have to be running sweatshops just to draw the games.
I've just been looking on that newgrounds site. I'm thinking make your own animation and games that is awesome.
Click on anything it just will be ultra violence, swearing and scat. Nothing I've looked at so far hasn't been fighting and gore.
Click on anything it just will be ultra violence, swearing and scat. Nothing I've looked at so far hasn't been fighting and gore.
"When we were talking to one of the executives at the BBC. And he said, 'Now hold on, this man is so incompetent why wouldn't he be fired?' and I said 'Go and take a look around this building. Just go and knock on a few doors.'" - Ricky Gervais
I think neorichieb1971 worded that beautifully.
Chaos Legion would have rocked so hard in that way if only it had been fun - kind of like Legendary Wings, where i took my avatar from.
I would love to see worlds like those of X-Multiply, Karnov, Xexex, Turrican, and Altered Beast rendered on the new hardware.
Hell, imagine a return to the magic of Snow Bros, Pang, or Bubble Bobble except in 3d with an extremley thought out control/camera scheme and play mechanics. They should really get inventive with the Wii control system and see what we can do...
Chaos Legion would have rocked so hard in that way if only it had been fun - kind of like Legendary Wings, where i took my avatar from.
I would love to see worlds like those of X-Multiply, Karnov, Xexex, Turrican, and Altered Beast rendered on the new hardware.
Hell, imagine a return to the magic of Snow Bros, Pang, or Bubble Bobble except in 3d with an extremley thought out control/camera scheme and play mechanics. They should really get inventive with the Wii control system and see what we can do...
Godzilla was an inside job
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neorichieb1971
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Thanks circuitface.
I believe in order to reach mainstream people with games that have been developed by companies that have the older gamer in mind. The mainstream titles need to be relaxed a little.
Mainstream people don't have open minds or are oblivious to different concepts of art and design. To them, the greatness of the console to produce realtime visuals that are in the realm of Earth is paramount and the only thing that matters.
But to me this is not the problem. The problem lies in the flooding of the market with what I call "tweaked" games. Tweaked games take a well proven and successful franchise, tweak it a little and call it something of their own. Doom/Quake/Turok/Farcry/Halo... Halo I see as advancement because it introdues a decent storyline and concept, great music and a somewhat advancement in FPS AI.
Now take NFL games for example. They ALL do the same thing.. Sure they all do it slightly differently, some are better than others. But is there really a necessity to have more than 3 NFL's in a consoles lifespan?
I would rather those graphics and 3D engine to be used in something like a futuristic sport like Speedball.. That would be AMAZING! Because its NEW or relatively not DONE since 1990. How hard would it be to take a NFL 3D engine like EA has, and develop that into something I would want to play?
In fact, NFL games are whats milking the cow. Same could be said about shmups, but at least the game is based on artistic impression, completely different gameplay mechanisms and design. It has the art of sound, music.. These are commodities that humans have evolved over centuries and there lies the appeal to shmups.
For me personally, I stopped playing realistic games around the DC era. PS1 gave me some good realistic memories with GT1 etc.. But 4 years later it was already dire.. 5 more years on and the same crap is being recycled.. Very seldom does a title really excite me anymore and when it does, it comes completely by surprise.
all that is happening is the graphics like Circuitface says, is getting better. With each generation of hardware, we hear stuff like "the limit of the console is the creators imagination" and yet year after year after year, its those titles with the least imagination that sell the most.
Its sites like this one that keep the old generation alive. I have created a game world in my head that I would like to developed, I'm excited that I came up with a storyline, an artistics impressions in my head and a special controller for the game. Its all in my head, it uses 3D graphics to the max, but the gameplay is fast and frenetic like a Tron 3D world with a twist of Tempest gameplay.. If it were made, im sure it would be a success to those who appreciate a surreal atmosphere, old school gameplay, 3D graphics in a Jeff Minter esque world. OMG, the music.. it would be awesome.
I believe in order to reach mainstream people with games that have been developed by companies that have the older gamer in mind. The mainstream titles need to be relaxed a little.
Mainstream people don't have open minds or are oblivious to different concepts of art and design. To them, the greatness of the console to produce realtime visuals that are in the realm of Earth is paramount and the only thing that matters.
But to me this is not the problem. The problem lies in the flooding of the market with what I call "tweaked" games. Tweaked games take a well proven and successful franchise, tweak it a little and call it something of their own. Doom/Quake/Turok/Farcry/Halo... Halo I see as advancement because it introdues a decent storyline and concept, great music and a somewhat advancement in FPS AI.
Now take NFL games for example. They ALL do the same thing.. Sure they all do it slightly differently, some are better than others. But is there really a necessity to have more than 3 NFL's in a consoles lifespan?
I would rather those graphics and 3D engine to be used in something like a futuristic sport like Speedball.. That would be AMAZING! Because its NEW or relatively not DONE since 1990. How hard would it be to take a NFL 3D engine like EA has, and develop that into something I would want to play?
In fact, NFL games are whats milking the cow. Same could be said about shmups, but at least the game is based on artistic impression, completely different gameplay mechanisms and design. It has the art of sound, music.. These are commodities that humans have evolved over centuries and there lies the appeal to shmups.
For me personally, I stopped playing realistic games around the DC era. PS1 gave me some good realistic memories with GT1 etc.. But 4 years later it was already dire.. 5 more years on and the same crap is being recycled.. Very seldom does a title really excite me anymore and when it does, it comes completely by surprise.
all that is happening is the graphics like Circuitface says, is getting better. With each generation of hardware, we hear stuff like "the limit of the console is the creators imagination" and yet year after year after year, its those titles with the least imagination that sell the most.
Its sites like this one that keep the old generation alive. I have created a game world in my head that I would like to developed, I'm excited that I came up with a storyline, an artistics impressions in my head and a special controller for the game. Its all in my head, it uses 3D graphics to the max, but the gameplay is fast and frenetic like a Tron 3D world with a twist of Tempest gameplay.. If it were made, im sure it would be a success to those who appreciate a surreal atmosphere, old school gameplay, 3D graphics in a Jeff Minter esque world. OMG, the music.. it would be awesome.
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.
Heh... i have a few flying around in my head as well. Thinking about them lulls me to sleep every night lolneorichieb1971 wrote: Its sites like this one that keep the old generation alive. I have created a game world in my head that I would like to developed, I'm excited that I came up with a storyline, an artistics impressions in my head and a special controller for the game. Its all in my head, it uses 3D graphics to the max, but the gameplay is fast and frenetic like a Tron 3D world with a twist of Tempest gameplay.. If it were made, im sure it would be a success to those who appreciate a surreal atmosphere, old school gameplay, 3D graphics in a Jeff Minter esque world. OMG, the music.. it would be awesome.
Godzilla was an inside job
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neorichieb1971
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I might be starting to date a girl who is an artist, I might try to get her to draw whats in my head.. if it works out well, i'm going to send it off to some studios for evaluation. Even if the concept is used, I will be buying it, playing it and enjoying it even if I don't make any money out of it.
Otherwise, they can hire my girlfriend and myself to draw up new worlds and concepts for gaming pleasure.
Otherwise, they can hire my girlfriend and myself to draw up new worlds and concepts for gaming pleasure.
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.
This is just my opinion but, with 3D graphics, you only have so much you can do before graphics = reality..whereas 2D graphics is an ever-evolving thing.
Also keep in mind that you weren't raised on 3D graphics like the current generation might have been. They probabaly don't know their roots.
Also, 2D gaming, be it platforming, fighting, etc. has always been much more technically complex in 2D than in 3D because you have that element of technical construction versus realistic physics.
Games like Tekken, a person who throws a kick has a block of space that connects with the opponent. Games like Street Fighter, you have to figure out the point of the hitbox, the prorating, the point at which the reaction and recovery animation starts, etc etc.
Also keep in mind that you weren't raised on 3D graphics like the current generation might have been. They probabaly don't know their roots.
Also, 2D gaming, be it platforming, fighting, etc. has always been much more technically complex in 2D than in 3D because you have that element of technical construction versus realistic physics.
Games like Tekken, a person who throws a kick has a block of space that connects with the opponent. Games like Street Fighter, you have to figure out the point of the hitbox, the prorating, the point at which the reaction and recovery animation starts, etc etc.
The world would be a better place if there were less shooters and more dot-eaters.
Jesus' BE ATTITUDE FOR GAINS:
1. Pure, Mournful, Humble Heart
2. Merciful Peacemaker
3. Suffer for Righteous Desire
Jesus' BE ATTITUDE FOR GAINS:
1. Pure, Mournful, Humble Heart
2. Merciful Peacemaker
3. Suffer for Righteous Desire
That's an interesting thought circuit, and I mean independent of game content. The fact that 3D graphics are maturing onto a solid level that allows for consistent artistic expression. Never thought of it that way, but I think you're on to something.
As for them being more limited by supposed pursuit of real world likeliness: isn't that the self-imposed ultimate goal that's crippling creativity everywhere? I believe it's a phase, the obsession of creating the ultimate illusion by eliminating visual difference from reality. In fact that's only one way you can go with it, and even that has a long way to go. It's stuff like SotC that is more successful in its illusion by foregoing detail realism for a balanced world creation. Realism is not a factor in illusion, it's just the easiest approach because it relies on immediate visual identification. Everything else needs stronger, more comprehensive artistic vision. Think about it, the beginning of FPSs was fascinating simply because you could move around in that perspective. To this day 3D has evolved in improving details of that experience without trying much in the gameplay/world department. A mature 3D could actually lead us away from 'it's cool because it's 3D and you can shoot' stuff because it's so commonplace it's no longer a factor. Games like Halo have been successful because they created a consistent world/story experience and actually provided varied gameplay by working on a dynamic AI. I can't play most FPSs and I used to love the genre. Not because they're bad, because technology doesn't provide big enough leaps these days to wow me based just on that.
The new generation is already less of a perceived evolutional leap than the previous due to this. I see a growing possibility for games to distinguish themselves by exploiting the mature technology to develop other aspects in immersion than graphic realism. In previous jumps the possibilities in 3D graphics were so far ahead of their predecessors that simply exploiting the graphics was a raison d'etre for games. Maybe someone's gonna concentrate on other parts of the package this time, you know? I sure as hell am not seeing the brain-melting technology WOW that makes people buy every shit game out there this time around.
As for them being more limited by supposed pursuit of real world likeliness: isn't that the self-imposed ultimate goal that's crippling creativity everywhere? I believe it's a phase, the obsession of creating the ultimate illusion by eliminating visual difference from reality. In fact that's only one way you can go with it, and even that has a long way to go. It's stuff like SotC that is more successful in its illusion by foregoing detail realism for a balanced world creation. Realism is not a factor in illusion, it's just the easiest approach because it relies on immediate visual identification. Everything else needs stronger, more comprehensive artistic vision. Think about it, the beginning of FPSs was fascinating simply because you could move around in that perspective. To this day 3D has evolved in improving details of that experience without trying much in the gameplay/world department. A mature 3D could actually lead us away from 'it's cool because it's 3D and you can shoot' stuff because it's so commonplace it's no longer a factor. Games like Halo have been successful because they created a consistent world/story experience and actually provided varied gameplay by working on a dynamic AI. I can't play most FPSs and I used to love the genre. Not because they're bad, because technology doesn't provide big enough leaps these days to wow me based just on that.
The new generation is already less of a perceived evolutional leap than the previous due to this. I see a growing possibility for games to distinguish themselves by exploiting the mature technology to develop other aspects in immersion than graphic realism. In previous jumps the possibilities in 3D graphics were so far ahead of their predecessors that simply exploiting the graphics was a raison d'etre for games. Maybe someone's gonna concentrate on other parts of the package this time, you know? I sure as hell am not seeing the brain-melting technology WOW that makes people buy every shit game out there this time around.
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SuperGrafx
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To me, it's nice to finally see the things you wished for in games to become a reality.
What I mean is, how many times did you play a racing game on the 8-Bit NES or 16-bit Genesis only to think "I wish I could play this with a real convincing cockpit view". Well, in PGR3 that wish was finally made a reality in unbelievable fashion. Sure it's been done before in previous gen games, but only now is it starting to approach a near-surreal level of realism.
And I'll never forget as a youth playing some linear NES RPG hoping for a game in 3D with a huge size and scope, giving the player the ability to do whatever he/she wanted and however. Games like Oblivion show that this is finally possible and in many ways surpassing even my expectations (ie: the guild and alchemy system). Sure the Xbox and PS2 were capable, but the limitations were apparent from the beginning.
I'm convinced that the 360 finally has the power to make my vision of gaming a reality. The power and tools are there, I just hope developers take full advantage of it without getting carried away with novel gimmicks and turning out cookie-cutter licensed crap.
What I mean is, how many times did you play a racing game on the 8-Bit NES or 16-bit Genesis only to think "I wish I could play this with a real convincing cockpit view". Well, in PGR3 that wish was finally made a reality in unbelievable fashion. Sure it's been done before in previous gen games, but only now is it starting to approach a near-surreal level of realism.
And I'll never forget as a youth playing some linear NES RPG hoping for a game in 3D with a huge size and scope, giving the player the ability to do whatever he/she wanted and however. Games like Oblivion show that this is finally possible and in many ways surpassing even my expectations (ie: the guild and alchemy system). Sure the Xbox and PS2 were capable, but the limitations were apparent from the beginning.
I'm convinced that the 360 finally has the power to make my vision of gaming a reality. The power and tools are there, I just hope developers take full advantage of it without getting carried away with novel gimmicks and turning out cookie-cutter licensed crap.
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neorichieb1971
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I've not played PGR3, but if its as good looking as you say where is the next best racing game coming from?
Is the market going to be filled and filled and filled with crap until an implosion of the industry occurs?
In all markets, music, games, video.. the nextgen stuff is BETTER, but its only slightly better, costs a whole shit load more money to get going and at the current rate, half these industries will be dead soon if they don't stop trying to 1up each other. The consumer just won't be interested anymore.
Is the market going to be filled and filled and filled with crap until an implosion of the industry occurs?
In all markets, music, games, video.. the nextgen stuff is BETTER, but its only slightly better, costs a whole shit load more money to get going and at the current rate, half these industries will be dead soon if they don't stop trying to 1up each other. The consumer just won't be interested anymore.
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.
Concept artist would be a great job. You get to imagine all the stuff, and then someone else has to actually craft it and program it.neorichieb1971 wrote:I might be starting to date a girl who is an artist, I might try to get her to draw whats in my head.. if it works out well, i'm going to send it off to some studios for evaluation. Even if the concept is used, I will be buying it, playing it and enjoying it even if I don't make any money out of it.
Otherwise, they can hire my girlfriend and myself to draw up new worlds and concepts for gaming pleasure.
If you dream about making your own game, why don't you just do it yourself? Learn to program or learn one of the many game making applications out there, and make your dream game yourself.
What I hate about the modern day gamer is the consant pressure to upgrade hardware and play the newest stuff. Basically the mentality today is "Yesterday's hot new console is now today's expensive paperweight." It's like if a game or console is three years old, it ain't worth playing anymore.
I miss the old days of gaming. Granted, there's some 3D stuff that's good, but it ain't the same kind of good the old days had. The XBox360 is a nice machine, but it's gonna take a major price drop for me to buy one, and they bundle a hard drive with each one from now on.
Who cares about systems anyway, it's about the GAMES people!!
I miss the old days of gaming. Granted, there's some 3D stuff that's good, but it ain't the same kind of good the old days had. The XBox360 is a nice machine, but it's gonna take a major price drop for me to buy one, and they bundle a hard drive with each one from now on.
Who cares about systems anyway, it's about the GAMES people!!
Shmups: It's all about blowing stuff up!
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SuperGrafx
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But the systems are the gateway to bigger and better games. At least that's how I used to feel. I'll never forget my excitement when I bought my Genesis in 1990 at the thought of all the new games I'd finally be able to play...Ghouls N Ghosts, Phantasy Star II, Golden Axe....etc!FatCobra wrote:What I hate about the modern day gamer is the consant pressure to upgrade hardware and play the newest stuff. Basically the mentality today is "Yesterday's hot new console is now today's expensive paperweight." It's like if a game or console is three years old, it ain't worth playing anymore.
I miss the old days of gaming. Granted, there's some 3D stuff that's good, but it ain't the same kind of good the old days had. The XBox360 is a nice machine, but it's gonna take a major price drop for me to buy one, and they bundle a hard drive with each one from now on.
Who cares about systems anyway, it's about the GAMES people!!
You got a point there, however, not all of us can afford $400 consoles and $60 games. Speaking of that, did anyone else notice that game prices are going back to the pricing when cartridge-based games were new?SuperGrafx wrote:But the systems are the gateway to bigger and better games. At least that's how I used to feel. I'll never forget my excitement when I bought my Genesis in 1990 at the thought of all the new games I'd finally be able to play...Ghouls N Ghosts, Phantasy Star II, Golden Axe....etc!FatCobra wrote:What I hate about the modern day gamer is the consant pressure to upgrade hardware and play the newest stuff. Basically the mentality today is "Yesterday's hot new console is now today's expensive paperweight." It's like if a game or console is three years old, it ain't worth playing anymore.
I miss the old days of gaming. Granted, there's some 3D stuff that's good, but it ain't the same kind of good the old days had. The XBox360 is a nice machine, but it's gonna take a major price drop for me to buy one, and they bundle a hard drive with each one from now on.
Who cares about systems anyway, it's about the GAMES people!!
Shmups: It's all about blowing stuff up!