best way to learn Japanese (beginner)

[DC906270]

anyone tried one of those cd-roms? just wanting to begin to speak japanese a little. the linguaphone course is very expensive though, but you can get the interactive cd rom which supposedly takes you up to intermediate level pretty cheaply. any thoughts?

[bwod1e]

im not sure, but i was wondering the same exact thing
keen to start learning a lil jap
who can help us with some info

[oxtsu]

keen to start learning a lil jap

"LIL JAP" ...?

You're getting me knickers in a twist, bloke.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

I don't know about vids 'cause I've never used them, but you should learn Hiragana and Katakana rápido. It helps alot in the beginning. Of course, move onto Kanji as soon as you master them. You won't regret it. BTW, I changed my Kanji counter to reflect a more realistic amount.

[DC906270]

thanks UFO, but i'm more interested in first learning to speak and understand the spoken language before moving onto the written language, which i should think is far more difficult without knowing the spoken language to begin with

[nZero]

Sleeping dictionary.

[professor ganson]

Apart from actually moving to Japan or living with Japanese-speaking people, you probably want to take a class. Learning a new language takes a lot of discipline, and the routine of regular class with homework is ideal. I learned three languages that way in college, though in each case I was really only interested in reading.

[raiden]

thanks UFO, but i'm more interested in first learning to speak and understand the spoken language before moving onto the written language, which i should think is far more difficult without knowing the spoken language to begin with

forget it. The problem is Japanese has so many homonyms (words that are pronounced exactly equal, but mean different things) you´ll just end up getting confused. Of course, you can gather a general direction of meaning by the context, but it´ll always be too vague to clearly remember. For the same reason, Hiragana and Katakana are a great start (and there are children´s books as well as a few videogames using nothing but Kana), but you need to proceed to Kanji to get anywhere. The beautiful part is that Kanji often have a way of showing their meaning through appearance. It´s a much more visual experience than learning most other languages.

[DC906270]

you probably want to take a class

yeh, except but there arent any round where i live, and they cost a fortune to study in London or abroad. anyone tried Linguaphone before?

[NTSC-J]

Sleeping dictionary.

I don't think this method works. I fall asleep to my audio lessons rather easily and when I wake up can barely remember what I did the day before, much less relative clauses or whatever.

Kanji rocks, I think reading is a lot easier than speaking personally. If you don't know the reading of a character, the radicals give it away. You'll see a new word and be able to figure it out not knowing anything else but the core meanings of each kanji. suck...blood...demon=vampire; scary...dragon=dinosaur, etc.

The best method if you follow these steps:

Step one - Learn the katakana and hiragana. It can be done in an afternoon if you try.

Step two - Move to Japan and live there for 20 years.

And bam, you've got nihongo running through your blood. Easy!

[iatneH]

The best method if you follow these steps:

Step one - Learn the katakana and hiragana. It can be done in an afternoon if you try.

Step two - Move to Japan and live there for 20 years.

And bam, you've got nihongo running through your blood. Easy!

But you STILL won't be good at shooters.

[GaijinPunch]

Take a class. Unless you're amazingly good at learning stuff on your own, self study (at least at first) will not take you as far as say, learning about computers. Sure, learning hiragana and katakana are pretty easy, and even kanji to an extent, but spoken, and of course the ins and outs of grammar really need to be tought, I am convinced.

Then again, I couldn't tell you a group 1 verb from a hole in the ground. :/

[DC906270]

^ yes, it would be better to take lessons, if they were available reasonably close, problem is in the UK Japanese lessons are not really available outside London, and the special colleges there charge a lot of money to attend. besides, i only want to take it up as kind of a casual thing, maybe a few hours a week. any improvement at all is better than nothing.

the options are,

CD-ROM (interactive) - £25 GBP
Full Linguaphone Course - Beginner to Advanced level, using CD's and books. - £250.

Probably try out the CD Rom first.

but yeah, i probably will print out a list of the Katakana and Hirigana symbols off the net somewhere, too. thanks for your suggestions people.

[GaijinPunch]

There are two fantastic books for anyone at any level. THey are:
Dictionary of Beginner Japanese Grammar
Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar

Perhaps the two best books out there. I can get them here, but they are painfully expensive. You might want to try a Kinokuniya. I know the intermediate one retails for 3700 yen in Japan (and is printed in Japan). At the local book store here, it's $65.

They are no substitute for structured learning materials, but they are excellent references.

[raiden]

one suggestion for learning Kanji: forget multiple choice tests or any kind of computer-supported learning program. What you need to do is make some old-fashioned cards and repeatedly write the Kanji down. You will not learn to read Kanji without being able to write them, because the differences between them are so slight you don´t notice them without having written down each version numerous times. The cards allow you to cycle in and out Kanji you know and those that you don´t know, of course always concentrating on those you don´t know and sorting out those you learned until some time you might find you forgot one, then you cycle it back in. And you can take the cards everywhere, which is also important, use any spare or waiting time to cycle through your cards.

[Ceph]

There are two fantastic books for anyone at any level. THey are:
Dictionary of Beginner Japanese Grammar
Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar

Perhaps the two best books out there. I can get them here, but they are painfully expensive. You might want to try a Kinokuniya. I know the intermediate one retails for 3700 yen in Japan (and is printed in Japan). At the local book store here, it's $65.

They are no substitute for structured learning materials, but they are excellent references.

I used to study with "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar", published by the Japan Times, 634 pages, 2806 Yen. Very good book at least during the first few years of studying, highly recommended. Everything is spelled out in kanji/kana and Roman letters.
ISBN 4-7890-0454-6

But as has been said by others here, studying Japanese on your own won't work. And spending time in Japan is pretty much mandatory, too.

[NTSC-J]

I'm gonna give another thumbs up to Dictionary of Beg/Intermediate Japanese Grammar. Of the few books I brought with me overseas, I made sure to have the Intermediate Grammar with me, it's my favorite of the dozen books on the shit I have. The appendexes (appendeces?) are indispensable too, all the counters, prefixes, suffixes, etc.

One thing I'd add is if you're going to buy books do not buy any book that is solely in romaji. You want to go right into learning the characters, romaji will just set you back. The 501 Verb series of books put out a book on Japanese but it's all in romaji. Blow.

Kanji cards are a great method. I've made over 3,000 cards, each with all the readings, the kanji's root meaning, and an example compound word. Took a while, but like was mentioned, very easy to take with you if you want to review on the bus or in a waiting room or something. I used Heisig's Remembering the Kanji series, which I really like but many disagree with its methods. Worth checking out tho.

[Alske]

I'm gonna give another thumbs up to Dictionary of Beg/Intermediate Japanese Grammar. Of the few books I brought with me overseas, I made sure to have the Intermediate Grammar with me, it's my favorite of the dozen books on the shit I have. The appendexes (appendeces?) are indispensable too, all the counters, prefixes, suffixes, etc.

I agree about the appendices but I've found the rest of that book to be entirely worthless... The どんな時どう使う日本語表現文型 series by ALC, or any of the recommended materials for the 日本語能力試験 are what I've found to be most effective for actually learning at a more advanced level.

Unfortunately, I've never run across a beginner's textbook for Japanese that I felt was decent... You really just need to take a class or get a private tutor when you're starting. After you get some of the basics then self-study becomes more effective.

[nZero]

Sleeping dictionary.

I don't think this method works. I fall asleep to my audio lessons rather easily and when I wake up can barely remember what I did the day before, much less relative clauses or whatever.

Decidedly not what I meant by that.