Twin Hawk/Daisenpu

[Macaw]

I recently discovered this game released by taito in 1989 (developed by Toaplan?), which is yet another 1942 and Kyukyoku Tiger style shooter. However, what makes this interesting is that ALL the enemies in the game are ground based, there is no flying enemies at all. In other words you just destroy millions, and millions, and millions of tanks.

You have to wonder when they designed this game they were probably thinking: "you know what, I reckon the tanks are the funnest thing to blow up in Kyukyoku Tiger, so why dont we make a shooter that is only tanks?"

So anyway i'm wondering why this game seems to be somewhat unknown, I personally think its better than Kyukyoku Tiger and even most other games of the same style such as Raiden. What are your opinions?

[SAM]

I recently discovered this game released by taito in 1989 (developed by Toaplan?), which is yet another 1942 and Kyukyoku Tiger style shooter.

Yes, It was developed by Toaplan.

So anyway i'm wondering why this game seems to be somewhat unknown, I personally think its better than Kyukyoku Tiger and even most other games of the same style such as Raiden. What are your opinions?

Well, it definately a great game. Ground enemy only and the support squardon is only appear in this game.

You really have to work out how to get pass every parts of each stage without "bombing", which is quite fun. It's more a thinker's game than you thought. You are force to work out how to get pass every parts of a stage since you have to restart at check point after death. Highly recommended.

BTW, I got a Daisenpu PCB for sale, and I am willing to sell it cheap. Just PM me an offer if you interested. Payment via PayPal.
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=8730

[Bloodreign]

I've played a little of the Duo port of Daisenpuu, I wondered where the air targets were, now I know they don't exist. Still a pretty rough game, but recommended to anyone who likes a challenge.

[llabnip]

So anyway i'm wondering why this game seems to be somewhat unknown, I personally think its better than Kyukyoku Tiger and even most other games of the same style such as Raiden. What are your opinions?

Twin Hawk/Daisenpu got some good press on here last year I thnk. There are some of us that love the game - there is a very good (and cheap) port on the Megadrive (aka Genesis) that is easy to import and fun to play. Highly recommended Toaplan goodness!

[CIT]

Yup, pretty great game. I have the Hu-Card and it gets a lot of playtime from me. I love the music during the start scene. Kind of moving actually, since you know the pilot will never make it back alive (..at least when I'm playing ).

Can anybody comment on the differences between Daisenpuu Hu-Card and Daisenpuu Custom for CD-Rom2? I've heard the music in the latter is actually worse, how can that be possible!?

[Macaw]

I've only tried the Mega Drive port of it, and couldnt really stand it due to the dramatically lowered resolution (i've played a lot of the arcade version so I guess its hard to take any cut down version of it after that) still its a good mega drive game on its own.

What are the chances of this getting a proper accurate home release as part of a compilation pack or somthing? Would taito still own the rights to it? Toaplan isnt even mentioned at all on the arcade version, It was only when I played the mega drive port that I noticed it said 'original game by Toaplan', isnt it strange that Toaplan wouldnt put their logo on somthing?

[dave4shmups]

I love the Mega Drive port, but couldn't stand the PC Engine CD port; the soundtrack is horrible and doesn't fit the gameplay at all.

Definately my second favorite Toaplan shmup; first would be the immortal Flying Shark!

[Neon]

PCE hucard for the win. Arcade version slows down a lot, and when the game slows down the music does too, very annoying.

[raiden]

Definately my second favorite Toaplan shmup; first would be the immortal Flying Shark!

have you played Fighting Hawk? Got it this week for very cheap and like it very much. I mention it because it´s rather similar to the two you mentioned.
btw. does anybody know who made Fighting Hawk? Just like Twin Hawk, it only mentions Taito, but I´d like to know the developers. The game was not featured on www.toaplan.com, so I guess it must be another team. But which one?

[CIT]

Definately my second favorite Toaplan shmup; first would be the immortal Flying Shark!

have you played Fighting Hawk? Got it this week for very cheap and like it very much. I mention it because it´s rather similar to the two you mentioned.
btw. does anybody know who made Fighting Hawk? Just like Twin Hawk, it only mentions Taito, but I´d like to know the developers. The game was not featured on www.toaplan.com, so I guess it must be another team. But which one?

I was thinking UPL, but apparently it's not theirs. I don't think anybody else was licensed to Taito at that time, so it must have been made by Taito themselves.

[Fighter17]

I like the Megadrive port better. I think the Hucard version was horrible.

[CMoon]

Wow, I disappear for a week and people start talking about the games I love!

Yeah, Twin Hawks I think is really quite amazing. The all tank business reminds me a bit of Garegga for some reason I can't really explain (maybe just the militaristic theme.)

Of course, I'd love to see a gamepack with an arcade perfect port of this and half a dozen other toaplan titles, but for now the genesis cart will have to do which is quite playable and one helluva lot of fun.

I agree on the 'brainy' aspects of it. Although it certainly isn't hugely deep or devoid of action, some parts definitely require memorization and *gasp* thought.

This one might be in my top 10, not because it is perfect but because it does so many things the way I like them done (perhaps in the same way that Gun Frontier rates so highly with me...)

[Herr Schatten]

have you played Fighting Hawk?

I never heard of the game, so I gave it a quick go in MAME. I think it's actually pretty cool. I really like the clean graphics. Good stuff, although I felt that I could get too far on my first try. Luckily, the game really picks up later on.

[iatneH]

PCE hucard for the win. Arcade version slows down a lot, and when the game slows down the music does too, very annoying.

I just got the PCB and while I noticed the music slowing down in MAME, I didn't notice such a thing for the PCB. A bit curious...

[FraGMarE]

I love the Mega Drive port, but couldn't stand the PC Engine CD port; the soundtrack is horrible and doesn't fit the gameplay at all.

Definately my second favorite Toaplan shmup; first would be the immortal Flying Shark!

I always preferred the PC-Engine CD port over the Megadrive or HuCard versions. The graphics were slightly improved over the HuCard and the music was remastered redbook audio. Also, it just seemed altogether more faithful to the arcade. Of course, nothing beats the original PCB, but if I had to rank the home ports in order, it would go:

Daisenpu Custom (PC-Engine CD)
Daisenpu (Megadrive)
Daisenpu (PC-Engine HuCard)

[Jac2Mac]

Are there any differences between the Japanese arcade and World arcade versions of Twin Hawk and does the USA version feature an FBI logo at the beginning of this tough shooter?

[BBH]

Are there any differences between the Japanese arcade and World arcade versions of Twin Hawk and does the USA version feature an FBI logo at the beginning of this tough shooter?

just how important is that FBI logo to you?

[Jac2Mac]

Not that important. in fact, the USA version doesn't even have one, it just shows the Taito logo twice.

[welcometoyourdoom]

Not that important. in fact, the USA version doesn't even have one, it just shows the Taito logo twice.

If you knew, then why did you ask?

On a related note, has anyone noticed the nosedive in the overall quality of posts here, lately?

[SAM]

I just got the PCB and while I noticed the music slowing down in MAME, I didn't notice such a thing for the PCB. A bit curious...

Yes, that's a bug of the MAME engine, the real thing doesn't have that.

On a related note, has anyone noticed the nosedive in the overall quality of posts here, lately?

For that, I must admit that is partial my fault. *Meow*

[AWJ]

I just got the PCB and while I noticed the music slowing down in MAME, I didn't notice such a thing for the PCB. A bit curious...

Yes, that's a bug of the MAME engine, the real thing doesn't have that

I thought I fixed that months ago, but it looks like part of the patch I submitted got lost in the shuffle in the 0.104u3 core changes. It should be fixed (for real this time) in the next release.

[iatneH]

Oh sorry about that, I should have added I am using a pretty old build of MAME. I'll be playing on PCB from now on, but keep up the good work!

[AWJ]

Oh sorry about that, I should have added I am using a pretty old build of MAME. I'll be playing on PCB from now on, but keep up the good work!

No, that's the thing, I thought it was fixed, but that patch didn't actually make it in. It'll (probably) be fixed at some point in the 0.106 u's.

[Sengoku Strider]

I got a shipment of import stuff in the other day, and to my surprise this has been the game that's monopolized my attention over Gate of Thunder, Monster Lair and Final Soldier.

It's such a weird game masquerading as an anonymously normal game. I couldn't have picked this game out of a lineup without a couple of YouTubers mentioning it, and even then I'm not sure they described it well.

I'm playing the JP Mega Drive version. At first, I thought this game felt only half finished. I'm still not sure it isn't. There are no different weapons, and you barely power up the nondescript one you do get. The backgrounds just kinda feel like leftover cutting room floor stuff from Same! Same! Same!, but with even less variation. You fight tanks and literally nothing else. Except when you're over the water, where you fight tanks sailing through the water, occasionally peppered with what feels like 3 ship models. Of which the large battleships also feel C+Ved out of Same!3. There are no between-stage animations or score tally, you just keep going as the stage counter goes up a number and the music changes. The music is weird too. Kinda warbling synth sequences that sit in the background without ever really making their presence felt, as opposed to Same!, which blasts you with a Van Halen concert at the beginning of every stage. And to top it all off, there are no speed powerups and your plane is super slow like this game had been sitting in storage since 1985, biding its time. This makes you dead a lot.

All of which is to say, I get why this is sort of the forgotten sibling in the Toaplan home port canon.

But you know what? Those tanks are darn fun to blow up. I like the spritework on your fighter. Your nondescript weapon is at least a kind of cool nondescript weapon when powered up. But what makes this game compelling to me is the squad mechanic. I have no idea if this is how you're 'supposed' to play it, but summoning them like a get-out-of-jail-free bomb seems like a complete waste. If you're in a bad situation and summon them, they're probably just getting shot down right away. Yeah, you can kamikaze them or press the button twice and get a literal bomb, but that also seems like a waste (the bomb has limited range, isn't overwhelmingly powerful, and seems to just be there as an afterthought for the people who complain there's no bomb).

Instead, what I find myself doing is summoning them during a quiet moment, then doing my level best to hug the top of the playfield and blow up everything I can before it can get on screen and start shooting. The squad in this type of situation does a good job of covering the rest of the screen, keeping it largely zako free and avoiding those (frequent) situations where the game just gangs up on your slow and helpless plane. Which I think also explains why there are no speed-ups in the first place. Like the aim is screen management to keep as much of your squad alive as you can for as long as possible, otherwise you'll just find yourself overwhelmed in situations you're not really fast enough to handle. But, as the squad are an optional summon who can also just be used as a bomb, the devs have also left the door open for people who want to play it straight up. And then be the only type of person that makes longplays for it.

The speed factor makes it feel like a game that is very much about routing, in contrast to Tatsujin which was more broadly designed around memorization (I don't know what Same!'s defining design intent was, if anything in particular). The difference being that Tatsujin just asks you to know where the gaps in enemy fire are going to be; you'll be fast enough to choose pretty much whichever one you want. Daisenpu seems to put emphasis on considering your path between enemy encounters.

The one thing that's driving me nuts is that the game can't seem to decide whether it has bullet sealing or not. It seems so inconsistent whether something will snipe me up close or not. I'm not sure if it's rank based, or if it only seals if you're directly on top of enemies, or if it's a timer-based thing where the gaps between shots get longer if you're close, or what.

But anyway. There's more to say, but TL;DR interesting game that doesn't seem interesting on its surface.

[Jeneki]

Yeah hugging the top is kind of funny in this game. Only the larger enemies have static spreads that damage the formation, while everything else aims at you and ignores all the planes in the back mowing them down lol. I've also had luck picking one side and letting the formation handle the other side, though it's not as crazy looking.

[Sengoku Strider]

I've also had luck picking one side and letting the formation handle the other side, though it's not as crazy looking.

That usually just ends up happening to me by default, lol.

[ZacharyB]

The all-tank army might be Toaplan taking a shot at the concept of a no-collision shooter. (For the first time?) Like, maybe this was too early for gameplay to matter over practicality, so they had to frame this design decision with enemies who cannot be touched.

[trap15]

I think it's more likely they just wanted to try calling back to Tiger-Heli (Toaplan's first shooter, only has tanks and other ground enemies) with the design.

[Sumez]

I think the idea is great. I haven't ever given Daisenpu a fair chance, - the little I played of it back in the day didn't grab me, but I might have approached it with the wrong mindset. But still the idea has a lot of merit - the ground tank is my favourite type of enemy in all classic Toaplan games, and especially when enemies come in from the sides and bottom of the screen, not having them do collision damage really helps making the game feel a ton more fair.

That said, the tightly designed balance of deadly sniper tanks paired with incoming kamikaze pilots is pretty much what makes Hishouzame so much fun to play, you can't just remove one from the equation. Maybe when M2 eventually decides to include the game on one of their ucpming releases, I'll give the arcade version a good go.

[davyK]

Have the MD JP cart of this and it's the only version I've played. It should be boring but for some reason it isn't. It keeps me coming back.