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 Post subject: GD: Under Defeat Scoring
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:17 am 


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Things I know:
Kill enemy with gun pot to score double (x2). You could damage the enemy with your main gun, then let your gun pot finished the enemy and you could still got the x2 mutiplyer.

The end stages bonus mutiplier is totally depends on the number of lifes you lost?!?! :shock: The more you lost the higher the mutiplier. :lol:

So to scores high you should:
Get killed fast. :o
For best result lost your first two lifes in Stage 1. :x
(I am serious. :twisted: *Meow*)


*********************************
What we need to work out.
*********************************

End Stage Bonus

There are several items contribute to the end Stages bonus:

(1) Contribution %
(2) Ability Adjustment (Got Killed Mutiplyer :lol: )
(3) Fuel Left
(4) Ammo Left
(5) Estimated Enemy Casualty

Contribution %
Scores awards from the Contribution % consist of large part of the end stage bonus, it got double when 100% is met. So it is important to know what enemy / distructable scenary / friendly unit saved contribute to this % and how much.

What I know now:
(1) The contribution points avaliable to scores from each stages are more than 100%. :o Altrough you could not get over 100%, but you didn't need to got perfeat to score 100%.
(2) There are three sources of this contributions:
enemy / distructable scenary / friendly unit saved

Enemy: Enemy are enemy units firing at you. These include Mid-Boss and Stage Boss.

Distructable Scenary: Some non-firing Distructable Scenary, moving cars, non-manded weapons, etc. does contribute to the Contribution%.

Friendly Unit Saved: In later Stages (e.g. Stage 3), there would be some friendly unit on screen. Some of them would be knocked out by enemy if you couldn't finished some enemy fast. If you killed those enemy fast enough, those friendly units could be saved and this contribute to your contribution%.

What we needs to know is what counts in each stages and how much each is worth. :o

Ability Adjustment (Got Killed Mutiplyer :lol: )
Well this is simple. The mutiplyer is directly linked to how much lifes you left, it would be highist if there is none left.

Keeps in minds that this game got no extends. :twisted:

Fuel Left
This just the time left in end stage boss fight timer.

Ammo Left
This just the number of bomb left.

Estimated Enemy Casualty
This is the most misterious figures during end stage. But it seems got nothing to do with your scores.
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Last edited by SAM on Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 6:43 am 


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No extends? And there's rank? It's Raystorm all over again.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:47 pm 


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Further playing suggested that the gun pod weapon might got chain bonus calculate in a way similar to Donpachi. :o

EDIT: I took a close look at the scores counter today and found that the above is not true. The scores is not cumulative like Donpachi.

The Vulcan might be the weapon of choice in score attack. :roll:
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Last edited by SAM on Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: GD: Under Defeat Scoring
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:25 pm 


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SAM wrote:
So to scores high you should:
Get killed fast. :o
For best result lost your first two lifes in Stage 1. :x
(I am serious. :twisted: *Meow*)
I have not found this to be true at all. I tried playing to the beginning of stage 3 after dying twice on level 1, and just playing normally (died twice on level 2 boss) and my score was actually higher the second time. Can someone explain the way this works better?


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 Post subject: Re: GD: Under Defeat Scoring
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:25 am 


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Frogacuda wrote:
SAM wrote:
So to scores high you should:
Get killed fast. :o
For best result lost your first two lifes in Stage 1. :x
(I am serious. :twisted: *Meow*)
I have not found this to be true at all. I tried playing to the beginning of stage 3 after dying twice on level 1, and just playing normally (died twice on level 2 boss) and my score was actually higher the second time. Can someone explain the way this works better?

I think you can see you got a larger the end stage bonus mutipler for dying early.

The explanation I could think of is you done less well during the stages. i.e. miss some mission targets (lower the contribution%); and destroy less enemy via your gunpod (less x2 mutiplers). :o
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Under Defeat Scoring
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:58 am 


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SAM wrote:
Frogacuda wrote:
SAM wrote:
So to scores high you should:
Get killed fast. :o
For best result lost your first two lifes in Stage 1. :x
(I am serious. :twisted: *Meow*)
I have not found this to be true at all. I tried playing to the beginning of stage 3 after dying twice on level 1, and just playing normally (died twice on level 2 boss) and my score was actually higher the second time. Can someone explain the way this works better?

I think you can see you got a larger the end stage bonus mutipler for dying early.

The explanation I could think of is you done less well during the stages. i.e. miss some mission targets (lower the contribution%); and destroy less enemy via your gunpod (less x2 mutiplers). :o
This is possible, but I did not see nearly enough of a payoff to justify losing the lives. The only real benefit I noticed was that it cooled the rank big time.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 7:43 am 


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The highist score I got from Stage 1 alone is 29x,xxx with 2 lifes lost.

The highist score I got without losing any life lost is around 24x,xxx.
Frogacuda wrote:
This is possible, but I did not see nearly enough of a payoff to justify losing the lives.

Well it is not justify the loss of lifes unless you could 1LC the both loops. It is just the way to score the thoetical max score in the game. :o
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2006 7:21 pm 


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It seems quite silly to play that way then. In Border Down the incentive to play on lower borders was HUGE, here it's decidedly more slight.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 3:27 pm 


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the weapon options do seem to have a more complicated scoring system, i've noticed the rocket option gives you bigger scores if you can get it to kill lots of things in one shot, it also kicks the arse out of the bosses, the other options dont seem half as good in comparison, although the more stuff one option kills before it needs to recharge does seem to give you more points.
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 Post subject: Re: GD: Under Defeat Scoring
PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:23 pm 


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SAM wrote:
]
Keeps in minds that this game got no extends. :twisted: .


Are you joking? :shock:
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 7:30 pm 


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you can cred feed if you want altho they are released incrimentally, but so far ive not managed to get any extra lives, it aint bullet hell tho so its not like its asking too much.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:35 pm 


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there is some sort of a chaining system with the option, the more targets you destroy consecutively with the option, gives the more points. not sure how many/or if the multiplyer keeps increasing x2 per target destroyed, tho this would make sense

edit : oop sam says above that the scores are NOT cumulative? ill check this..maybe im wrong there is no chain score? in case sorry sam :oops: for not reading thread properly


Last edited by DC906270 on Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:23 pm 


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Guardians Knight wrote:
you can cred feed if you want altho they are released incrimentally, but so far ive not managed to get any extra lives, it aint bullet hell tho so its not like its asking too much.


Yeah.. but even Psikyo grant the player a single extend. I actually would have preferred 2 score-based extends in this game... especially given how much more hectic/erratic the second loop is.

As is, I think for the time being I'll be satisfied with a loop-1 SCC.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:29 pm 


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I've noticed that for a speed kill on the second boss, the cannon works much better than the rocket. I've actually managed to kill him before he spits his second pattern by leeching his health on the first pass around the ship - before you get to the missile launchers - and then unloading on him with the cannon ASAP.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:04 am 


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it290 wrote:
I've noticed that for a speed kill on the second boss, the cannon works much better than the rocket. I've actually managed to kill him before he spits his second pattern by leeching his health on the first pass around the ship - before you get to the missile launchers - and then unloading on him with the cannon ASAP.

You do also have to get the timing right to kill him with your first cannon pob. Otherwise you would have to wait for the pob to recharge.

Additional 30,000 for killing him with a weapon pob worth as much as 30sec left in the boss battle counter. Recharging a weapon pob defenately not take that much time. :o
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:58 am 


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how big exactly is the diameter (?) of the rocket's damage range? cuz i know it can hit multiple enemies only when they are close together right?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:41 pm 


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It's a pretty good size (probably about the size of 4 tanks sitting right next to each other in a square formation if not bigger), but if I'm not mistaken that's not the only factor -- (some) enemy explosions seem to do splash damage, for example the big artillery cannons on the first stage can take out other enemies (or cows) when they explode.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:50 pm 


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ok, i decided to try out 2-1, (i didnt notice that i unloacked it already! i was busy with 1CCing the normal mode)...

so everything's reversed, i get that, but is it just me or did the bullets get faster and increase in number? and i swore i saw some ships/towers/tanks which threw out suicide bullets? anyway, i merely credit fed the 2nd loop anyways.. for now that is...

as for the rocket, i think i get it now, i tried to play through with only the rocket, seems ok, i got better scores...

and one last thing... the bomb. How exactly does it damage stuff? i mean, does it only sweep through bullets and smaller crafts? it seems very useless against bosses, esp. in stage 4 and 5, which have very specific "weak" spots...
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:53 pm 


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Yeah, the bomb seems to mostly just take care of smaller enemies, but it also allows your option to recharge, so it is very useful against bosses in a sense (especially if you have rockets: it's like two for the price of one!).
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:47 am 


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it290 wrote:
I've noticed that for a speed kill on the second boss, the cannon works much better than the rocket. I've actually managed to kill him before he spits his second pattern by leeching his health on the first pass around the ship - before you get to the missile launchers - and then unloading on him with the cannon ASAP.


Actually you can leech the control tower twice, before his health bar appears. First time on your way up the left side of the ship, the second time is right after the rocket launcher pods and just before the little helis appear, you get another 2 sec or so to fire into it. If you get the timing right you can then kill the boss with a single rocket.

Generally I think the rocket is the best weapon for boss battles, scoring and speed kills, but also the most tricky to use. It is possible to kill boss 3 using rockets before he moves behind you, but the timing is crucial. Haven't been able to pull it off yet, but I can get him down to a milimeter of health when he moves to his second form.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:58 am 


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CIT wrote:
Generally I think the rocket is the best weapon for boss battles, scoring and speed kills, but also the most tricky to use.

It's riskly too, if the rocket miss or the pod got destory before the rocket lanuch. I think it put too much eggs in one basket.
CIT wrote:
It is possible to kill boss 3 using rockets before he moves behind you, but the timing is crucial. Haven't been able to pull it off yet, but I can get him down to a milimeter of health when he moves to his second form.

He nearly always got me after geting to my back.

My mom took back the 21" VGA monitor for it "normal" purpose...
(Hey I bought that monitor for playing shmups in Tate. :x )
My friend's moded PSone cannot convert RGB from DC...
My RGB monitor is currently in yoko position....
......
Haven't got Under Defeat setup to play for 1 week+ or more :(
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:42 pm 


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I don't think anyone posted this yet-- but if you use an option to take out one of those weapon carriers (the ones that explode and can take out neighboring enemies), it seems that all the enemies that then takes out count as x2. Also, it seems that only some enemy types count towards the 100% because I'm pretty sure I missed some on the first stage, but got 100% anyway. It lists some types on that am.sega scoring page, but I can't quite make them all out.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:54 pm 


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Yip, everything that gets cought in the rocket's blast radius counts towards the x2 bonus. You can experiment a lot with scoring in the first stage, for example, at the mid-boss (that tank that drives out of the bunker) the are six tanks to the left and right of the road. Don't kill them, but dodge their fire and wait for the tank to appear. Blow it up with a rocket and you will kill the tanks as well, but with twice the score.

BTW, played around with practice mode some more and can now kill stage 3 boss with 76 sec remaining, and before he moves behind me. However finishing him off with a rocket is not so easy to time correctly.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:25 am 


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CIT wrote:
Yip, everything that gets cought in the rocket's blast radius counts towards the x2 bonus. You can experiment a lot with scoring in the first stage, for example, at the mid-boss (that tank that drives out of the bunker) the are six tanks to the left and right of the road. Don't kill them, but dodge their fire and wait for the tank to appear. Blow it up with a rocket and you will kill the tanks as well, but with twice the score.


That's a pretty big radius... will try that...
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:59 am 


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Hmm, on second and third and fourth tries, I don't think using the option on the weapon carriers counts towards an x2 on crafts destroyed by the resulting explosion-- must've just been a well-placed rocket before.

Seems like you can also really milk the st4 boss =) 'course I think vulcan or cannon are generally better for actually hitting the weak spot on that thing...
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 10:05 am 


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Quote:
That's a pretty big radius... will try that...


I don't think it's really a radius, it's more of a chainreaction.
Has anybody figured out whether killing off enemies fast gives more points than killing them with the option/rocket-chainreaction?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:10 am 


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Necronom wrote:
Has anybody figured out whether killing off enemies fast gives more points than killing them with the option/rocket-chainreaction?


There's no advantage to killing enemies "fast", especially if you're doing it with regular gunfire instead of an Option. Obviously wiping out an enemy quickly has its advantages, but you're going to get the same amount of points whether the enemy is at the top of the screen or at the bottom. For maximum points you kill an enemy with the Option, that's it.


I disagree in regards to whether "milking" the 4th boss is a good idea. The bigger-sized turrets on the boss are only worth 1000 points each, and remember that you lose 1000 points from the stage bonus for every second that goes by. You're not going to be able to wipe out one turret every second, and if you're using the Option to destroy those instead of the main turret, then it's going to take you a looooong time to finally beat the boss... and personally I'd rather just take it out as fast as possible instead of taking a risk in stretching out the battle. Besides, the videos I've seen (not the same as the in-game replays) focus on destroying it ASAP, I think they have the right idea.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:46 pm 


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What if you can use the rockets on the searchlight and then get the turrets with splash damage? Has anyone done this successfully? (when I do it, I usually wind up hitting the turrets and missing the spotlight)
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:03 am 


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louisg wrote:
What if you can use the rockets on the searchlight and then get the turrets with splash damage? Has anyone done this successfully? (when I do it, I usually wind up hitting the turrets and missing the spotlight)


I'm not sure if the explosion has enough reach. If you want to make sure the rocket hits the spotlight, you need to move up pretty close to it to make sure it gets targeted... but even then there's a chance the turret could move and the rocket will hit the side guns and not do as much damage. I really haven't managed to put together a concrete plan of beating this boss yet, I usually end up using a couple bombs just so I can stay in the line of vision of the spotlight/main turret and then charge/release the rocket while the bomb is going off.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:20 am 


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BBH wrote:
I'm not sure if the explosion has enough reach. If you want to make sure the rocket hits the spotlight, you need to move up pretty close to it to make sure it gets targeted... but even then there's a chance the turret could move and the rocket will hit the side guns and not do as much damage. I really haven't managed to put together a concrete plan of beating this boss yet, I usually end up using a couple bombs just so I can stay in the line of vision of the spotlight/main turret and then charge/release the rocket while the bomb is going off.


I like to use the vulcan on this guy-- I line up with the spotlight, get into it, release the option, wait until I hear the vulcan warm-up and move out of the way. Vulcans aren't likely to be wasted on a turret, and you can get them ready in an instant. But yeah, I do end up using bombs, though partly because of panic!
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