3 shmups for 360 (Cave, Treasure, Alpha System)

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:27 am

I am starting a new topic because I am amazed to find out that quite a few people on these forums seem to be unaware of this fact.

Famitsu has been reporting for several months now that there are 3 upcoming shmups for the 360.

Cave: original shooting game
Treasure: original shooting game
Alpha System: unannounced title

So Cave and Treasure are confirmed to be making shmups, but Alpha System's game could be anything. It probably is a shmup, of course.

We don't know anything more about these games yet, but there are a couple of things we can assume. The games will be displayed in at least 1280x720 resolution, hence, in widescreen mode. So they will probably be horis--I doubt they'd expect you to tate your wide screen TV.

They could be 2D or 3D, although we can take it for granted that Treasure and Alpha's games will be 3D. Cave's might be 2D--or not. Only time will tell.

Also, all games will have a Live component, although that might just be hi score boards. Don't be surprised if there is also a 2-player feature. That would fucking seriously rock.

Finally, there is no chance in hell these games will get canceled. The worst that might happen is that they will switch platforms to PS3, and I personally couldn't care less if that happens, because I'll buy a PS3 as well, as soon as it comes out.

So there you go.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:32 am

icycalm wrote:I am starting a new topic because I am amazed to find out that quite a few people on these forums seem to be unaware of this fact.

Famitsu's has been reporting for several months now that there are 3 upcoming shmups for the 360.

Cave: original shooting game
Treasure: original shooting game
Alpha System: unannounced title

So Cave and Treasure are confirmed to be making shmups, but Alpha System's game could be anything. It probably is a shmup, of course.

Um, most people here have been aware of this for months. We haven't been talking about it for a few reasons. First, the Cave game is likely vaporware, unless it's some shit game by their home console department. The alpha system game is probably Shiki III (cf. the cross-platform whoring of Shiki II). Which will also come out on PS2 I'd wager, so who cares. The Treasure game is of most interest (and coincidentally the one most of us have talked about), as that will most likely materialize (and be a shooter).

Finally, there is no chance in hell these games will get canceled.

LOL! You obviously have zero experience with game release schedules. "unannounced title/ original shooting game" does not equate to "100% chance this game is coming out". Games get cancelled all the time, and these 'announced' titles were announced before the launch of the X360 in Japan, which speaks for itself.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:37 am

Look man, I've never heard of Cave/Treasure/Alpha System announcing games that ended up not coming out. If you have, then let me know the names of the specific Cave/Treasure/Alpha System games and then I'll start worrying.

As I said, the titles have been announced several months ago, which means these people have been working on these games for several months now.

Now these developers are not Electronic Arts. They have a very small amount of people working for them. If they devote several months of work to a project, it better come out and make some money, otherwise they are in serious trouble.

I don't see any reason not to be optimistic actually. If you can think of any let me know.

Edit: If you take a minute to actually think about this, you will see that Shiki III on the 360 doesn't make that much sense. First off, if it was indeed Shiki III, then why would they not declare the game's genre? Second, all 360 games have to be 1280x720 (widescreen) minimum. They would have to seriously fuck with the Shiki III graphics to meet that requirement. And the PS2 port would end up being miles better. I mean the Shiki III graphics look bland enough as it is--imagine if they were upscaled! I am not saying they wouldn't do it. I am just saying it doesn't sound like a smart move. I am convinced it's a brand new game.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:39 am

icycalm wrote:Look man, I've never heard of Cave/Treasure/Alpha System announcing games that ended up not coming out. If you have, then let me know the names of the specific Cave/Treasure/Alpha System games and then I'll start worrying.

You obviously haven't heard of Treasure's Gunbeat (this was even announced for the DC btw):

http://www.mrmonkeyman.com/treasure/gunbeat.html

Also, as for Cave games, most of us know Ketsui was planned for the PS2, then cancelled.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:42 am

No, I haven't.

Ok, you got me worried now.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:46 am

icycalm wrote:No, I haven't.

Ok, you got me worried now.

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be great to have games from these companies on a next-gen system. I would just wait until actual titles for the games are revealed, and then of course some release dates. Until then it's just speculation really.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:51 am

It's not speculation.

They have ANNOUNCED them.

Speculation comes before the official announcements.

See, I am not a retro gamer, like most people here are. I am just a gamer. I understand that pessimism and retro gaming go hand in hand, but I am just by nature optimistic.

Also, just because ONE out of 30 Treasure games ever in development was cancelled, should not lead me to automatically ASSUME that their next one will also be cancelled. Same goes for Cave.

Anyway, I just want to be excited about upcoming games, and I'll be damned if I am not excited by those three games.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:54 am

icycalm wrote:
They have ANNOUNCED them.

Not officially. Hence it's still speculation. Show me ANYWHERE where Cave has stated they are developing an X360 game. If you can, that's great but I don't think you will because it hasn't happened yet. Treasure has alluded to an X360 game in interviews, but it's far from an official announcement.

When you don't have a title or even a concrete genre, compounded with the lack of any explicit confirmation by the developers themselves, you can hardly claim a 'game' has really been announced. Your evidence is a list of pre-launch 'ideas'. Companies sign up for new consoles all the time but often they drop out of development for the system after the launch. When a company signs up to develop for a new system, generally they have to give some placeholder term to identify the idea of the game they plan to develop. This is all we have to go on in this case. Empty hypothetical placeholders, not officially announced GAMES.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:57 am

I can show you the past 8 or 9 Famitsu magazines that I have. They have the games listed in the release schedule. The release schedule, as I am sure you know, only contains titles that the companies themselves have announced.

No speculation. None. Otherwise the release schedule would be a worthless piece of trash.

As for the original announcements, I am sure they are in some Microsoft Japan press releases, but I don't have the original Famitsu issues were they reported them.

Edit: I'll take a picture of the lates release schedule and post it later.

Edit twice:

twe wrote: When you don't have a title or even a concrete genre, compounded with the lack of any explicit confirmation by the developers themselves, you can hardly claim a 'game' has really been announced.

Look man, the PS3 and the X360 release schedules are full of games with no titles. For example, Namco have announced that they are working on an RPG for PS3. No title, just that the game is an RPG. Do you doubt that they are working on it? Do you doubt that it will come out? Do you doubt that the company actually ANNOUNCED that to the press? The verb "announce" means "to give public notice of"...

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:01 am

icycalm wrote:I can show you the past 8 or 9 Famitsu magazines that I have. They have the games listed in the release schedule. The release schedule, as I am sure you know, only contains titles that the companies themselves have announced.

Read my above post. Famitsu is just repeating the PRELAUNCH list of announced games. Mags do this ALL THE TIME.

I'm really surprised you're so ignorant of such a basic practice in video game journalism.

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:01 am

Well, I have no intention of buying the overpriced doorstop that is the 360 (and likewise for the PS3). The asking prices of these new consoles are rediculously stupid, and thus far all of the extra power that they provide will go 100% into graphics which is the last of my concerns when choosing a game.

Any "exclusive" titles for next-gen consoles are a silly idea, as they will miss a huge chunk of the gaming market (ie: people who aren't filthy rich and can afford all the next-gen stuff). Hell, I only just got a PS2 a few months back, and that was entirely due to the Cave games that have appeared on it lately.

I will possibly consider buying the Nintendo Revolution, depending on it's release price and the backwards compatability advertised, but otherwise I have zero interest in next-gen consoles and any titles appearing on them.

Post by **nZero** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:04 am

icycalm wrote:Edit: If you take a minute to actually think about this, you will see that Shiki III on the 360 doesn't make that much sense. First off, if it was indeed Shiki III, then why would they not declare the game's genre? Second, all 360 games have to be 1280x720 (widescreen) minimum. They would have to seriously fuck with the Shiki III graphics to meet that requirement. And the PS2 port would end up being miles better. I mean the Shiki III graphics look bland enough as it is--imagine if they were upscaled! I am not saying they wouldn't do it. I am just saying it doesn't sound like a smart move. I am convinced it's a brand new game.

I thought it looked like they were putting Shiki 3 in widescreen TATE cabs? Besides, it isn't a 2D property. Having everything rendered at a higher resolution may not improve the bland graphics but it's also not the horror of 2D drawn stuff upscaled to several times original resolution. Aspect ratio correction will be easier to deal with as well.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:05 am

icycalm wrote:I
twe wrote: When you don't have a title or even a concrete genre, compounded with the lack of any explicit confirmation by the developers themselves, you can hardly claim a 'game' has really been announced.
Look man, the PS3 and the X360 release schedules are full of games with no titles. For example, Namco have announced that they are working on an RPG for PS3. No title, just that the game is an RPG. Do you doubt that they are working on it? Do you doubt that it will come out? Do you doubt that the company actually ANNOUNCED that to the press? The verb "announce" means "to give public notice of"...

You really think all those games with no titles will materialize?

To reiterate a simple concept I stated earlier, games (with or without titles/genres specified) get cancelled, especially games on prelaunch release schedules!

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:06 am

twe wrote:
icycalm wrote:I can show you the past 8 or 9 Famitsu magazines that I have. They have the games listed in the release schedule. The release schedule, as I am sure you know, only contains titles that the companies themselves have announced.

Read my above post. Famitsu is just repeating the PRELAUNCH list of announced games. Mags do this ALL THE TIME.

I'm really surprised you're so ignorant of such a basic practice in video game journalism.

Oh, I am ignorant of all game journalism practices. I am not a game journalist, and neither did I study journalism, you see. I am an engineer. Also, I didn't know you are a game journalist. Nice!

In any case, I don't see what difference it makes if the games were ANNOUNCED pre-launch or post-launch.

A ton of pre-launch announced 360 games are sitting on store shelves right now

twe wrote: You really think all those games with no titles will materialize? If so, man, you need to get a new hobby because you know nothing about the video game industry. To reiterate a simple concept I stated earlier, games (with or without titles/genres specified) get cancelled, especially games on prelaunch release schedules!

I need to get a new hobby because I know nothing about the video game industry?

So you mean that to enjoy playing video games I have to know lots of things about the video game industry?

Are you on drugs or something?

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:14 am

icycalm wrote: So you mean that to enjoy playing video games I have to know lots of things about the video game industry?

No, but the content of this thread revolves around a basic understanding the video game industry which you seem unable to grasp. So my wording was wrong there (sorry), you shouldn't get a new hobby, you just shouldn't make threads about topics you don't really understand.

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:17 am

Jesus.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:36 am

elvis wrote:Well, I have no intention of buying the overpriced doorstop that is the 360 (and likewise for the PS3). The asking prices of these new consoles are rediculously stupid, and thus far all of the extra power that they provide will go 100% into graphics which is the last of my concerns when choosing a game.

Any "exclusive" titles for next-gen consoles are a silly idea, as they will miss a huge chunk of the gaming market (ie: people who aren't filthy rich and can afford all the next-gen stuff). Hell, I only just got a PS2 a few months back, and that was entirely due to the Cave games that have appeared on it lately.

They won't be missing out on any chunk of the gaming market. They're next gen games. These are follow up systems that will be standard fare in a year and a half.

You obviously haven't heard of Treasure's Gunbeat (this was even announced for the DC btw):

http://www.mrmonkeyman.com/treasure/gunbeat.html

Confused

Also, as for Cave games, most of us know Ketsui was planned for the PS2, then cancelled.

Gunbeat was an anomaly (It was in development for awhile, screens were produced and it was ultimately cancelled... not to mention the fact that it was originally announced as an arcade game, not a console game) and Ketsui was a port another company was responsible for.

Grinning Cat · Post by **Grinning Cat** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:51 am

Remember, Treasure and Cave both said they'd release games on Type-X, and nothing has happened. Cave also said they'd release a NAOMI game

kong · Post by **kong** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:07 am

The 360 is also selling worse than the original xbox in Japan. That fact alone could cause these companies to cut their losses early and kill these games before they ever see the light of day.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:21 am

I am siding with twe on this, probably vaporware. Or at this point, the announcement probably means no more than "Hello, we are Treasure, Cave and Alpha System. We currently have type X/360 compatible dev kits. You will see Type X games from us if we choose to make 'em." And the delay of Senko No Ronde coupled with the fact that the 360 is doing worse than the original system does not bode well for any 360 releases from "the big three" listed above. The only Type X shmup release (that I can think of right now, correct me if wrong) was Raiden III and that was ported to PS2.

Post by **nZero** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:39 am

Dylan1CC wrote:The only Type X shmup release (that I can think of right now, correct me if wrong) was Raiden III and that was ported to PS2.

Homura, GigaWing Generations. Both of which also made it to the PS2.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:22 am

nZero wrote:
Dylan1CC wrote:The only Type X shmup release (that I can think of right now, correct me if wrong) was Raiden III and that was ported to PS2.
Homura, GigaWing Generations. Both of which also made it to the PS2.

Ah yes. My bad. Again though I think this sort of reinforces that the type X announcement doesn't mean much for 360 (yet).

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:20 pm

Well, judging by the poll results, it seems that the majority of people on these forums "know nothing about the video game industry."

In any case, although some good points have been raised, I remain optimistic.

I can't help it, really. I was born that way.

cigsthecat · Post by **cigsthecat** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:26 pm

I really don't think I'll be buying any more videogame systems. Gaming has all but passed me by at this point. The only system I'd likely consider would be the Revolution, but Nintendo will have to do something jaw on the floor amazing to sway me. I'd also like to play RE5, but not enough to buy a whole system for it.

CAVE games do nothing for me, so even if their games continue to be ported on PS3 etc. I wouldn't buy a system for them. Ibara may be the last new game I need, unless some new developer comes out of nowhere with amazing stuff.

Even if some great shooter were ported I could likely wait a bit and buying the PCB would be the same as buying a new system + the game.

Valgar · Post by **Valgar** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:36 pm

When IGN asked Masato Maegawa about their Xbox 360 game he basically said "You are mistaken." Furthermore, he first said that the shooter team was working on a Type-X title. Then in another interview he said that they were thinking about an Ikaruga update. Finally, he said that they wanted to do RSG3, and the plans were there, it was just getting the time/people to do it.

Basically, an exclusive Xbox 360 shooter from Treasure is complete BS in my opinion. They would release a title for Arcades first (Masato also mentioned their absence from the Arcades was because Gradius V was supposta be an Arcade title but Konami pushed it to PS2 instead) and depending on that a console port would be made.

mice · Post by **mice** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:53 pm

I know I'll be getting a PS3 (in case Ico 3 or something gets released) but I can't afford a 360 as well...so I had to go for the last option.

Although I really hope all three of them will be kicking great shmups!

icycalm · Post by **icycalm** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:00 pm

IGN: It's been announced that you're making Xbox 360 games, and we've heard some buzz that your first game for the platform will be 2D. Can you tell us what you can do with 2D games on a powerful system like Xbox 360?

Maegawa: Your information is incorrect.

IGN: Ahh... well, in general, if you were to make a 2D game on the Xbox 360, what could you possibly do with all that power?

Maegawa: For making a completely 2D game, the Game Boy Advance and DS are fine. For next generation systems, including Xbox 360 and others, we'd do 2D with polygons -- that is, the visuals are 3D, but the game play is 2D.

The way I am reading this, he is telling IGN that they have incorrect information, i.e. they are not working on a 2D game for 360. They are working on a 3D game, though. The IGN guy just asked the wrong question.

Kiken · Post by **Kiken** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:34 pm

Tiny Toons: Masters of the Luniverse (or whatever the title got changed to) was a PS2 Treasure game that was never completed (it was a 3D spiritual sequel to Rakugaki Showtime... sorta).

Bishamon · Post by **Bishamon** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:41 pm

If they ever are developed, I just hope they are released domestically. With Microsoft, chances are more likely than they would be with Sony, but still; these are probably an attempt to garner more of the Japanese market. So, all five 360 owners in Japan can get their hands on them.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:42 pm

Also, as for Cave games, most of us know Ketsui was planned for the PS2, then cancelled.

Hardly... and not by Cave. Mihara simply wanted to do it, but couldn't make it work for whatever reason, according to him. Eithe way, it wasn't even talked about until long after the fact, so doesn't quite fit in to the scenario of the above game.

I think what's more of interest, is that Cave is supposedly on the Type-X Partners list, aren't they? They've yet to make a 3D arcade game, and I find it weird that they'd be willing to do so on arguably the crappiest hardware out there.

EDIT: Sorry... guess I should've read the whole thread before basically saying the same thing other people said.

shmups.system11.org

3 shmups for 360 (Cave, Treasure, Alpha System)

Will these games really come out, or is Famitsum full of shit?

3 shmups for 360 (Cave, Treasure, Alpha System)

Re: 3 exclusive shmups for 360 (Cave, Treasure, Alpha System