HDMI/VGA (downscaled) composite transcoder?

[2mg]

Why composite?
It's universal.

What am I looking for?
NTSC+PAL composite (S-Video optional, but welcome) transcoder.

Why do I need it?
For CRT Emudriver/NV+CRU and Retrotink 5x downscaled output to SD CRT TV.

Does it need to be HDMI/VGA to composite?
Kinda, because those mentioned above output VGA (RGBHV), in case of HDMI I will use a VGA transcoder.
I understand that I might need to make a H+V sync combiner.

What's the issue?
I'm confused which and how do composite transcoders work for my scenario, which have no lag (aren't converters), have/don't have sync combined, which are FPGA only, what is negative sync, does the VGA transcoder provide 5V on pin9, does DVI-A to VGA cut 5V, do I need resistors here and there, TTL/RGB voltage levels, extra dot-crawl due to color subcarrier/clock sync, do they have luma trap, and so on...

Here's a list of a bunch of them, I just need recommendations for my use case:
https://www.jaycar.com.au/vga-to-compos ... r/p/XC4907
"VGA To Composite & S-Video Converter" - converter, not transcoder?
https://www.startech.com/en-es/audio-vi ... ts/vga2vid
"High Resolution VGA to Composite (RCA) or S-Video Converter - PC to TV - TAA" - converter, not transcoder?
https://paradisearcadeshop.com/products/rgb-cga-to-tv
"RGB / CGA TO TV" - converter, not transcoder?
https://ultimatemister.com/product/mike ... ive-board/
"Passive Y/C MikeS11 S-Video (Direct Video Compatible)" - FPGA only?
https://ultimatemister.com/product/mike ... te-svideo/
"Active Y/C MikeS11 (Composite / S-Video)" - FPGA only?
https://ultimatemister.com/product/ulti ... component/
"VGA to YPbPr Adapter (Component / Composite)" - FGPA only?
https://misteraddons.com/products/yc-ac ... oder-board
"MiSTer FPGA YC Active Encoder Board" - FPGA only?
https://www.reddit.com/r/fpgagaming/com ... avstermd2/
"mavster-md2" - FPGA only?
https://www.jrok.com/hardware/RGB.html
"RGB to Composite Video & S-Video Encoder" - can't find any sellers, seems out of production, arcade only?
https://www.axunworks.com/product-p341706.html
"RGB-2YC" - very expensive, a bit overkill, and long waiting times?
https://github.com/jnftech/vga2ntsc-kicad
"RetroTINK VGA2NTSC - KiCad Conversion/Modification" - DIY, negative sync?
https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk/product ... converter/
"vga2ntsc" - same as above, but unavailable and NTSC only?
https://antoniovillena.com/product/vga- ... e-s-video/
"VGA->Composite/S-Video adapter" - FPGA only, 5V VGA dependancy?
https://antoniovillena.com/product/mike ... e-adapter/
"Active VGA->Composite/S-Video adapter" - FPGA only, 5V VGA dependancy?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/325527354295
"MiSTer FPGA Active Y/C Composite and S-Video Adapter w/ Case" - FPGA only, tho it has USB 5v?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174578156353
"wakaba/linuxbot3000" "RGB SCART to NTSC S-video and composite transcoder/encoder" - unavailable, NTSC only?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/371862958740
"Shinybow SB3682 RGBHV to S-Video & Composite Video Signal Converter Box" - very old, laggy?
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/10050045 ... 4itemAdapt
"General VGA（15khz） to composite&S-video adapter" - seems to have dot crawl issue, and PAL issues, according to comments?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005267629034.html
"MisTer FPGA YC Active adapter" - FPGA only, but has USB power?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5028478 ... pt=glo2ita
"Arcade RGB CGA to TV and Video Composite/converting board-game accessory for arcade game machine/game machine/amusement machine" - does this need special signal levels, is it any good?
https://www.js-technology.com/store/ind ... r=category
"RGB (SCART) to S-Video" - 3 models, converters or transcoders?
***Extron YCS (YCS 100 apparently has some processing, and unsure about 240p) - apparently very old and just convert composite <-> S-video?

[orange808]

I would rather not go down that rabbit hole... Well, not very far...

First of all: Why is all of this necessary? What are you downscaling?

If it's emulation, you probably don't need to downscale at all. MiSTer natively outputs composite or Y/C "svideo" output and the details are easy to look up. Just make or buy a cable.

The best way to get native CRT friendly signals from PC emulation is GroovyMiSTer paired with a good network card. Less lag as well. As I said before, MiSTer outputs composite natively.

I can't think of a "standard definition" console that didn't have native composite on board after the NES. So, downscaling and transcoding isn't really necessary with real hardware.

My only advice for RGB to composite or YC is to look at solutions that target arcade PCBs and arcade enthusiasts in general. That's where you'll find signal compatibility for a lot of odd signals. I bet Time Harvest on Aliexpress has some little thing that will get you composite. It's good enough. Pair that with an OSSC Pro w/analog output if you're dead set on downscaling.

Honestly, the chances of finding someone that is obsessed with composite output and has all the answers is virtually zero. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ If it puts a composite image on the screen that looks passable, it's good enough. That's as far as I go.

Dot crawl is always an issue with composite, by the way. That's why we don't use it if there's another option--and people are willing to spend a lot of time/money/effort to escape the way composite looks. That's why console mods exist.

Finally, if Y/C (svideo) is available on your display, you should (almost always) use that instead of composite.

[2mg]

...

There's a few random old PCs and random old SD TVs (and most have composite only) floating around me and I wanna make something retro out of them, emudriver fits them like a glove, so I really just need composite.
Most of these transcoders come with S-video anyway.

The RT5x just falls into the "it can downscale, so why not have composite option too", and I wanna mess with one NV card with HDMI and CRU.
I wanna have an S-video/composite solution ready anyway for just in case scenarios.

Mister, RPi, original hardware, console/TV modding, it's all a non factor here, and an additional cost and more time wasted fiddling with those.

I'm not asking much, just some "I tried that one and it works", for example those Mister oriented transcoders seem all to need 5V from VGA pin9 which I'm not sure old GPUs, or DVI-VGA, or especially HDMI-VGA, can supply plus they seem tailored for Mister, dunno if they expect a "custom" signal, then there's that one that's active and has luma trap, some seem to be NTSC only, and so on, so I'm hoping some input from users here, half the links I've found came from here, so I compiled the list with those outside this forum too.

https://it.aliexpress.com/item/50284787 ... pt=glo2ita this one is from Timeharvest, but didn't arcades have different RBG levels?

[orange808]

https://it.aliexpress.com/item/50284787 ... pt=glo2ita this one is from Timeharvest, but didn't arcades have different RBG levels?

I see the pots on the board to handle the RGB levels. That was my suggestion, because I knew it would be inexpensive.

Good luck.

[2mg]

I see the pots on the board to handle the RGB levels. That was my suggestion, because I knew it would be inexpensive.

Good luck.

The wiring on that one seems unfriendly, but nothing some soldering/using off the shelf connectors can't fix.
But if there's no manual or PCB slikscreen for what is what, that's an issue, especially that cut power cable's polarity.

If cost was a factor in your decision, there are a lot more at the same pricepoint?

[PC Engine Fan X!]

The above listed Wakaba made Scart to NTSC S-Video & Composite Video transcoder takes a Euro Scart 15.7kHz signal and converts it to properly attenuated levels for both S-Video & Composite Video for use on the older CRT-based TV monitors -- works like a charm indeed. I bought one with shipping from New Zealand to the USA. Some modern-day manufactured superguns nowadays don't offer the ability to output at either (or both) S-Video & Composite Video -- hence the need/demand for such transcoder box such as this one. This particular transcoder box outputs in NTSC signal format only.

It does require a 5v @ 500mah at a minimum A/C adapter to do the conversion properly or just use a portable power bank as a source of power for ease of use if so desired. If you take a peek inside the Scart transcoder box itself, there's an internal white led that lights up when powered up to let the user know that it's up & running -- how cool is that?

Not very many people make/sell such a specialized Euro Scart to S-Video/Composite Video transcoder box nowadays (which is already a very niche/specific transcoder box as it is) but New Zealander-based ebay seller "Wakaba" is rather an special exception than the norm -- it works awesomely with a supergun setup & appropriate custom-made mini 8 din to Scart cable interface cable setup. Wakaba also sells a Euro Scart to Component Video output transcoder box as well.

There's an VGA low-res 15.75kHz signal to NTSC/PAL S-Video & Composite Video transcoder box for sale listed here (it looks like a mini USB interface rated for 5v is needed to power it up but isn't soldiered on the pcb itself -- seems to be powered instead by 5v supplied on pin 9 of the VGA db9 interface itself): https://www.ebay.com/itm/387588414333?_ ... K5ZRENWADG

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[2mg]

...

Wakaba transcoder seems out of stock permanently, plus I really need PAL too.
Here's "Wakaba on steroids" - https://www.axunworks.com/product-p341706.html - but that is overkill for my needs.

That 15khz converter from ebay is the same as this one - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004542004772.html
Someone wrote about it's performance in the reviews section, and it seems like PAL would have even more problems?
The fact that USB isn't soldered might be intentional?
What's worse is if I connect it to a faulty/weird VGA that does less than 5v and plug in the USB power...
I could snip pin 9 to be sure, maybe, it's not really described what powers it, and does it even work if you solder and use USB power.

While what I'm after is kinda niche, but Mister got proper composite converters AND cores for them as time went by, and that's a niche case inside a niche case, I was hoping those could work outside Mister, but apparently the cores themselves do some technomagic that's required for a good output for those transcoders.

I stumbled upon this https://www.cathoderayblog.com/how-to-g ... o-villena/ but this seems very hacky (and it's pulling 5v from GBS-C), and I dunno if that's an older version of that transcoder.
He does sell 3 versions of that transcoder though (links in my list), and there's even a version with sync combiner for PC output, but all 3 models are specified for FPGA/other projects, not PC/VGA.
I've also read somewhere that even powered VGA transcoders don't output 5v on pin9.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005267629034.html is another Mister addon and has external USB power, but I dunno if I can use (sync aside) that as standalone.
So I believe that while all these Mister composite addons are good for the job I need, they really want to be connected to Mister exclusively.

Unfortunately I'm looking for a standalone VGA (RGBHV) > optional sync combiner (RGBs) > composite/S-video transcoders.
Dunno if there are component to composite transcoders, as I could add VGA > component > composite if I really have to.

[2mg]

https://www.amiga-shop.net/en/Amiga-Har ... ::940.html
"RGB4ALL"

Could this work?
Can even "hack" a simple crystal switch too.

[ldeveraux]

What am I missing here? Who on this board still uses composite?

[fernan1234]

What am I missing here? Who on this board still uses composite?

*slowly raises hand*

It really makes sense for 8-bit stuff.

[2mg]

What am I missing here? Who on this board still uses composite?

People who either have only "vanilla" options, or want to keep stuff untouched (ala no TV/console RGB mods), or want the composite look.

CRT Emudriver in an ITX box + composite only 15" bedroom CRT TV for example.
Also, composite is everywhere for a quick hookup.

[ldeveraux]

What am I missing here? Who on this board still uses composite?

People who either have only "vanilla" options, or want to keep stuff untouched (ala no TV/console RGB mods), or want the composite look.

CRT Emudriver in an ITX box + composite only 15" bedroom CRT TV for example.
Also, composite is everywhere for a quick hookup.

I suppose, but composite and RGB are in stark contrast. And it's only 'everywhere' if you resign yourself to using it. It's not in anyone's house who isn't us I'd imagine.

[2mg]

I suppose, but composite and RGB are in stark contrast. And it's only 'everywhere' if you resign yourself to using it. It's not in anyone's house who isn't us I'd imagine.

The point is just getting the basic "90s experience" as hassle free, and cheap, and fast as possible into some people's lives.
Quality isn't the point here, plug and play is.

And no, buying (multiple) consoles isn't the point too, especially due to retro tax on them, as emudriver PCs are also cheap and plentiful and emulate more than one console.
Also "hello 2nd hand shop person, that 10$ TV, when can I pick it up?" simplicity.

I've thought about RPi instead since they have composite out, but the prices are wild, 2nd hand shop 3Bs or Zero 2s are rare-ish, and if something goes wrong, eh, people have more familiarity with PCs...

[ldeveraux]

I suppose, but composite and RGB are in stark contrast. And it's only 'everywhere' if you resign yourself to using it. It's not in anyone's house who isn't us I'd imagine.

The point is just getting the basic "90s experience" as hassle free, and cheap, and fast as possible into some people's lives.
Quality isn't the point here, plug and play is.

And no, buying (multiple) consoles isn't the point too, especially due to retro tax on them, as emudriver PCs are also cheap and plentiful and emulate more than one console.
Also "hello 2nd hand shop person, that 10$ TV, when can I pick it up?" simplicity.

I've thought about RPi instead since they have composite out, but the prices are wild, 2nd hand shop 3Bs or Zero 2s are rare-ish, and if something goes wrong, eh, people have more familiarity with PCs...

Nope, I don't get it. And I'm pretty sure the last RPi to have composite video was the first model, and I would never run emulation on that. There's slow, and there's sssssllllooooowwwww.

[orange808]

Readers that stumble onto this thread and only want emulation should purchase a MiSTer with an analog I/O board and set up GroovyMiSTer, instead of trying to build a convoluted downscaling video chain around CRT Emudriver. Also remember, the CRT Emudriver dev was also involved in helping get GroovyMiSTer working.

The MiSTer replaces your PC's GPU entirely and outputs analog video. Doesn't matter what PC you use or what your GPU is. As a bonus, the MiSTer allows the PC to bypass major sources of latency in PC emulation and the experience is excellent. Most readers will want a MiSTer and the GroovyMiSTer core. That will open up the Mame library through your MiSTer. You may even find yourself shrugging when MiSTer arcade cores are announced, because you already have access to the games. The experience is so good, in fact, that it makes a proper GroovyMame legacy AMD GPU PC build practically redundant.

With the right cable, a GroovyMiSTer setup can output most any standard or signal you want or need. If you like, you can feed analog video to a CRT and the MiSTer digital output to a 4k upscaler. The MiSTer can handle 1080p upscaling and filters for you, no scaler required.

Now, let's be clear. I don't need to hear from OP again. I heard you the first time. I just don't want others to get trapped doing what you're planning--and needlessly building a convoluted downscaling video chain. Because, the MiSTer can both output native analog video and upscale to 1080p with decent "filters" from Mame. You can also use a modern PC and you don't need an old used AMD card; you just need a good network card and you can buy a brand new one, if the one you have doesn't already work.

[ldeveraux]

Readers that stumble onto this thread and only want emulation should purchase a MiSTer with an analog I/O board and set up GroovyMiSTer, instead of trying to build a convoluted downscaling video chain around CRT Emudriver. Also remember, the CRT Emudriver dev was also involved in helping get GroovyMiSTer working.

The MiSTer replaces your PC's GPU entirely and outputs analog video. Doesn't matter what PC you use or what your GPU is. As a bonus, the MiSTer allows the PC to bypass major sources of latency in PC emulation and the experience is excellent. Most readers will want a MiSTer and the GroovyMiSTer core. That will open up the Mame library through your MiSTer. You may even find yourself shrugging when MiSTer arcade cores are announced, because you already have access to the games. The experience is so good, in fact, that it makes a proper GroovyMame legacy AMD GPU PC build practically redundant.

With the right cable, a GroovyMiSTer setup can output most any standard or signal you want or need. If you like, you can feed analog video to a CRT and the MiSTer digital output to a 4k upscaler. The MiSTer can handle 1080p upscaling and filters for you, no scaler required.

Now, let's be clear. I don't need to hear from OP again. I heard you the first time. I just don't want others to get trapped doing what you're planning--and needlessly building a convoluted downscaling video chain. Because, the MiSTer can both output native analog video and upscale to 1080p with decent "filters" from Mame. You can also use a modern PC and you don't need an old used AMD card; you just need a good network card and you can buy a brand new one, if the one you have doesn't already work.

Why a convoluted setup to replace OP's convoluted suggestion? Any readers that stumble on this thread clearly don't care about quality, so should just buy a downconverter wherever they find it the cheapest.

[orange808]

Sure.

If quality really doesn't matter, why not just buy a scan converter? (Don't say quality.)

I see the Kramer NTSC/PAL scan converter for $24usd with free shipping. There you go. You'll get a picture on the screen. All set

Plug and play. You don't need anything else if you're feeding "VGA". It will downscale for you.

Don't need CRT emudriver or any "convoluted" GroovyMame setup, either. Just get a Chinese HDMI to VGA on Amazon and plug it in.

PC running regular MAME -> cheapest HDMI to VGA you can find -> cheapest scan converter you can find -> cheapest composite cord you find -> cheapest CRT you can find

All set. Enjoy. I assume users can find the display resolution output settings (if that's not too much to ask) on their computers and set it to 1080p or lower.

Fantastic. All fixed.

[Gunstar]

MiSTer with an analog I/O board and set up GroovyMiSTer, instead of trying to build a convoluted downscaling video chain around CRT Emudriver. Also remember, the CRT Emudriver dev was also involved in helping get GroovyMiSTer working.

Mistercast/groovymister sounds amazing, it's been on my list to try for a long while, really hoping I can do away with my CRTEmu setup which as great as it is has been a pain in terms of GPU selection and various driver issues.

[2mg]

Sure.

If quality really doesn't matter, why not just buy a scan converter? (Don't say quality.)

I see the Kramer NTSC/PAL scan converter for $24usd with free shipping. There you go. You'll get a picture on the screen. All set

Plug and play. You don't need anything else if you're feeding "VGA". It will downscale for you.

Don't need CRT emudriver or any "convoluted" GroovyMame setup, either. Just get a Chinese HDMI to VGA on Amazon and plug it in.

PC running regular MAME -> cheapest HDMI to VGA you can find -> cheapest scan converter you can find -> cheapest composite cord you find -> cheapest CRT you can find

All set. Enjoy. I assume users can find the display resolution output settings (if that's not too much to ask) on their computers and set it to 1080p or lower.

Fantastic. All fixed.

Quality matters in sense of composite-like quality.
Lag matters tho, afaik all Chinese scan converters add lag.

I'm unfamiliar with Kramers/Extrons aside from their brand names and that they're old and pricey, that's why I went with EMUdriver + Composite converter logic.

Which one is good for VGA > any TV signal with Composite as a prerequisite?
And the other way around, just in case I ever need something like that (aka linedoubler).
Are they lagless?

Why a convoluted setup to replace OP's convoluted suggestion? Any readers that stumble on this thread clearly don't care about quality, so should just buy a downconverter wherever they find it the cheapest.

Any recommendations, aside from laggy chineseums?

[orange808]

Quality matters in sense of composite-like quality.

*crickets chirping*

¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ You're going to feed the output (audio and video) through the OS scheduling and an nvidia video card. That's going to be a mess.

You can't reliably use any flavor of "freesync" (variable blanking periods) with a DAC and audio latency is another can of worms. Lag is going to be a concern. That's one reason why I suggested bypassing those things. CRT Emudriver manages it with an AMD card and GroovyMiSTer does it by using the MiSTer as an external GPU.

GroovyMame works with legacy AMD cards. That's what it's for. Calamity got optimisations merged into mainstream MAME years ago, so you don't need Groovy with nvidia cards, anyway (as long as you use variable blanking). He recommends mainline MAME with "freesync/VRR/gsync" to nvidia users all the time. AFAIK, there's no tangible benefit to using CRT Emudriver with an nvidia card and you need variable blanking to lower the lag (and you can't use that with a DAC).

Lag matters tho, afaik all Chinese scan converters add lag.

No. They don't. Don't worry about latency with those. There's only so many chipsets out there and you're not getting any fresh novel engineering when you buy an Amazon "Shenzen special" HDMI to "VGA". They just throw an off the shelf DAC chip in there and I don't know of any that have a frame buffer. You'll get one of the options; we don't know which, but you'll get one..

It would (actually) be more expensive to make a machine with the memory to buffer frames, anyway. There are a lot of concerns when we add an DAC to the chain, but lag usually isn't one of them--unless you opt for a full featured video processor.

I'm unfamiliar with Kramers/Extrons aside from their brand names and that they're old and pricey, that's why I went with EMUdriver + Composite converter logic.

I can post links to dirt cheap scan converters. A simple search on eBay right now will find both TVOne and Kramer scan converters at around $20usd with shipping included. There's no demand for them. I don't want to use one, but you can.

Which one is good for VGA > any TV signal with Composite as a prerequisite?
And the other way around, just in case I ever need something like that (aka linedoubler).
Are they lagless?

They're what you use if you want plug and play--and don't care about details. That was the entire point of making scan converters to begin with. They made plugging computers into consumer CRT televisions (and getting an image on the screen) painless.

I think it's an abomination for sources that aren't native 480p, but a lot of people over at neogaf, reddit, and atariage would love the result and swear it's lagless. You'll see an image. In fact, with an easy install of mainstream MAME, every game will "just work" because you'll see an image thing on screen. Frame rates will converted for compatibility and you won't need to worry about mode lines. You'll get an image thing on the screen.

If you really care about lag, use a "VRR/freesync/gsync" display, build a GroovyMame machine with a compatible AMD card, or set up GroovyMiSTer. If you want easy plug and play solution without spending much money or doing complicated setup, get a cheap DAC and a scan converter.

There are people all over neogaf, reddit, and atariage that will flame and argue to their last breath that a scan converter "looks great", "it doesn't matter", and "something, something human reaction time". So, the internets wouldn't mind if you got the scan converter and the Amazon DAC.

If you really care about latency, you will minimize or bypass the OS scheduling. Can't do that for video using an nvidia card without variable blanking. Audio lag is a problem we tolerate and live with.

[2mg]

AFAIK, there's no tangible benefit to using CRT Emudriver with an nvidia card and you need variable blanking to lower the lag (and you can't use that with a DAC).

Forget I mentioned NV, I just saw someone do it with CRU, I wanted to see if I can replicate it.
I appreciate your input about Mister/Groovy/OS Scheduling, but as I said, I've just a bunch of old random TVs and old random PCs that I want to repurpose, quality really is only "you'll get a picture" what I need, but lag is a concern.

No. They don't. Don't worry about latency with those. There's only so many chipsets out there and you're not getting any fresh novel engineering when you buy an Amazon "Shenzen special" HDMI to "VGA". They just throw an off the shelf DAC chip in there and I don't know of any that have a frame buffer. You'll get one of the options; we don't know which, but you'll get one..

Aren't those HDMI <> VGA transcoders - 15khz in, 15khz out/31 khz in, 31khz out?
I know it's at least worth buying different brands to check for black crush.

You suggested HDMI > VGA > Composite, but afaik the VGA > Composite parts from Bay or Ali are laggy as they convert signals, ala those small HDMI2AV/VGA2AV boxes, or is that an issue only in the opposite direction (which spawned lagless OSSC/Retrotink/Morph)?

I can post links to dirt cheap scan converters. A simple search on eBay right now will find both TVOne and Kramer scan converters at around $20usd with shipping included. There's no demand for them. I don't want to use one, but you can.

We're talking about VGA to Composite converters, that accept 31khz 480p/576p and convert to 15khz 240p/288p, without lag?
If so, then I just need names/models of most popular/available (PAL is a must), don't worry about links.
If they aren't lagless, are there any that have known low lag?

Also, drop a few models that do in opposite direction if they're worth mentioning (cheap and/or low lag), but afaik that's OSSC/RT/Morph territory, since only they do it lagless.

[ldeveraux]

Why a convoluted setup to replace OP's convoluted suggestion? Any readers that stumble on this thread clearly don't care about quality, so should just buy a downconverter wherever they find it the cheapest.

Any recommendations, aside from laggy chineseums?

Again, anyone looking for this solution doesn't care about lag.

[orange808]

Why a convoluted setup to replace OP's convoluted suggestion? Any readers that stumble on this thread clearly don't care about quality, so should just buy a downconverter wherever they find it the cheapest.

Any recommendations, aside from laggy chineseums?

Again, anyone looking for this solution doesn't care about lag.

2mg is OP.

[ldeveraux]

Again, anyone looking for this solution doesn't care about lag.

2mg is OP.

Exactly, and if they are looking for a component converter, they don't care about lag.

[2mg]

Exactly, and if they are looking for a component converter, they don't care about lag.

*Composite

I was looking at minimal lag - CRTemudriver ought to be very low/no lag, it's just that I have to hook it up to a composite TV, I hoped there is also a very low/no lag converter for that.
OTOH HDMI > VGA > Composite ends up with Bay/Ali chinese boxes which are laggy.

2mg is OP.

You can still drop those Extrons and similar if you've the time.

[jd213]

There's another Timeharvest box that should work with no lag, but it reportedly has shimmering over composite:
viewtopic.php?p=1556893&sid=dba29c839c9 ... d#p1556893

[vol.2]

I did this for awhile with an Extron Super Emotia, but it never really worked out for me because you will have to constantly faff around with CRU and do a lot of per game settings and stuff that a huge PITA to dial in. So eventually I just sold it because they got valuable and I never used it.

Instead of CRU and a PC, I now just use a Raspberry Pi 4 with a Retrotink hat or the composite output if I want that. I just compiled Retroarch inside of Raspberry Pi OS, but it would be easier to just use Retropie or something like that.

Way, way less to worry about than a PC and it's nice and compact. Also way cheaper than Mister or other, better solutions.

Another cheap alternative you can use if you are dead set on running CRU is GBS Control. Just search for it in the hardware forum. It can do downscaling. A little bit of setup is needed, but once you get past that, it'll probably be that last device you need for many things.

[ldeveraux]

*Composite

I was looking at minimal lag - CRTemudriver ought to be very low/no lag, it's just that I have to hook it up to a composite TV, I hoped there is also a very low/no lag converter for that.
OTOH HDMI > VGA > Composite ends up with Bay/Ali chinese boxes which are laggy.

yes, I mistyped, I know you're talking about composite. Bottom line is composite converters and no-lag do not go hand in hand.

[orange808]

*Composite

I was looking at minimal lag - CRTemudriver ought to be very low/no lag, it's just that I have to hook it up to a composite TV, I hoped there is also a very low/no lag converter for that.
OTOH HDMI > VGA > Composite ends up with Bay/Ali chinese boxes which are laggy.

yes, I mistyped, I know you're talking about composite. Bottom line is composite converters and no-lag do not go hand in hand.

That's true. A lot of encoders also insist on standard broadcast interlaced timings. Obviously, that's not what we want.

That's why we had the JROK boards and their newer cousins over at the Time Harvest shoppe. They don't add latency and they pass along odd signals properly. There was a time that people were throwing together quick and dirty cabs using free used consumer televisions. Some of them were trying to keep an "on location" cab working in a coin laundry or restaurant to keep people entertained, so the economics made sense. If I was running a barcade now, I still wouldn't hesitate to repurpose any CRT I could get my hands on--to avoid LCD.

Most of regulars here shrug at bare boards and some DIY. I get the feeling OP is less enthusiastic.

[2mg]

yes, I mistyped, I know you're talking about composite. Bottom line is composite converters and no-lag do not go hand in hand.

Yeah, didn't count on that, was hoping 15khz RGB isn't that "hard" to convert, or at least not having to resort to whatever quality and lag a chinese box would do.

So, any Kramers/Extrons(/TVCorios?) that do 240p VGA > Composite and/or 480p VGA > Composite?

That's true. A lot of encoders also insist on standard broadcast interlaced timings. Obviously, that's not what we want.

That's why we had the JROK boards and their newer cousins over at the Time Harvest shoppe.

JROK stuf isn't made no more, and so it seems for Time Harvest, at least they don't exist on Ali, and I see weird stuff popping up if ordered from their site?

I did this for awhile with an Extron Super Emotia, but it never really worked out for me because you will have to constantly faff around with CRU and do a lot of per game settings and stuff that a huge PITA to dial in. So eventually I just sold it because they got valuable and I never used it.

Instead of CRU and a PC, I now just use a Raspberry Pi 4 with a Retrotink hat or the composite output if I want that. I just compiled Retroarch inside of Raspberry Pi OS, but it would be easier to just use Retropie or something like that.

Way, way less to worry about than a PC and it's nice and compact. Also way cheaper than Mister or other, better solutions.

Another cheap alternative you can use if you are dead set on running CRU is GBS Control. Just search for it in the hardware forum. It can do downscaling. A little bit of setup is needed, but once you get past that, it'll probably be that last device you need for many things.

CRU was just me mentioning I'd like to try it with an NV card because someone else did it - I'm more interested in emudriver + AMD.

RPi 4 adds cost to where I already have some old but capable PCs.

GBS-C doesn't do Composite?