Switch 2 General Chat Thread (Aka, the final video game console)

[BryanM]

The direct dropped recently.

Mario Kart World is basically a game I've always wanted, from the first time I ever played Mario Kart 64. I can't imagine I'm not the only person who wanted a more Grand Theft Auto megagame kinda thing, that was basically a combination of Mario Kart + Mario 64. (This is another reason why quality standards are so dang high this late in the entertainment scene: Some of the top games are literally a bunch of old top games glued together! How do you compete with that!)

They really try to push the sense that the hardware and supporting systems are built to generate togetherness... Really does align with our tribal monkey brains. At the very least it doesn't come across as cynical as certain other products. It seems really hard to make a sarcastic video like that about this; it's like what, they're trying to sell us fun? How dare they! (While it's easy to mock Sony for just trying to sell us Mountain Dew and Doritos. Or Microsoft just trying to sell us TV.)

Dump what you're excited and worried about here.

Tertiary topic: Is this really the final major game console made by humans? This thing is going to have a lifecycle of about ten years, and by the end of that we're going to be living in a world that's either a burned out husk or on its way to being the Jetsons..

[m.sniffles.esq]

Dump what you're excited and worried about here.

The amount of times they said "compatible" when mentioning the ability to play Switch 1 games gave me pause and really reminded me of the Xbox One

"The ability to play all of your compatible 360 games! (and about three are actually compatible)"

[ryu]

I'm worried about potential region locking. Like, will I be able to play japanese games on my western Switch 2? Will I be able to access the Eshop by changing my account's location to japanese? In japan there's two separate consoles. A cheaper model that's japanese only and a global model that supports multiple languages. But it's not clear that multiple languages include japanese. Also to access the japanese Eshop I don't only have to change my region, I also have to unlink my EU WiiU account and link the japanese 3DS account. Will Nintendo really carry that kind of legacy stuff into the next generation? Not to mention you have an online subscription these days... that you have to cancel each time you want to swap regional accounts.

Like... fuck.

[TransatlanticFoe]

£75 games!
No you can't use your old SD cards!
Pay to access the tutorial!

Jesus Nintendo, April Fools was yesterday. Only joking, it looks like a solid launch lineup but there's still enough that needs clarifying. I'm getting strong WiiU/Stadia energy from the prospect of a £75 pricetag for third party games you can get on PS/Xbox for £20 (Cyberpunk, Street Fighter 6). And I'm not sure what extending the online subscription to include Gamecube games is supposed to achieve. WiiU Wind Waker port? Nah you gotta pay monthly for the GC version instead!

I thought finally ending price parity between physical and digital might mean an end to cheap low capacity cards with virtually no data and a mandatory download.... but no, they've announced those now have a name.

Backwards compatibility isn't as simple as "hey this is the same thing just with more power" like xbone to Series X. There's a list, and a tonne of things don't work properly.... and even more haven't been fully tested:

https://www.nintendo.com/us/gaming-syst ... ble-games/

It seems a bit more "enter at your own risk" PS4 on PS5 style of backwards compatibility. I wonder how much goodwill Nintendo will have to fix things at the OS-level or if it'll be a raft of mandatory downloads? And of course there's "Switch 2" editions, which basically smell like PS4 to PS5 paid upgrades.

And yeah, the "cheap JP-only console" leaves me wondering if region-locking is going to make a comeback

[m.sniffles.esq]

The "give us money for the console demo/your old, regular micosd won't work" just struck me as Nintendo being Nintendo, honestly. Their fans will swear there's perfectly legitimate reasons for these questionable practices, and the detractors will grumble while opening their wallets (while wondering why Nintendo never changes...)

But like the Xbox One, the backwards compatibility is a big selling point. And much like the Xbox One, the corporate language is giving lots of assurances while dropping a lot of asterisks

I did notice they made a point about larger analog sticks, but didn't say anything about them drifting (a MUCH bigger issue than the size)

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Unless Nintendo went with Joy Con 2 with "Hall Effect" endowed analog sticks the second time around -- a "tear down" analysis of one will certainly reveal the "inner workings/mysteries" once and for all.

What's the initial MSRP of a basic Switch 2 bundled set and is the overall screen itself OLED based as well?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Sumez]

It seems really hard to make a sarcastic video like that about this; it's like what, they're trying to sell us fun? How dare they!

This is the primary reason the current trend of massively hating on Nintendo without much reasoning necessary kind of worries me.
I mean, yeah, they are a corporation. They are trying to make money. They are not your friends. That's important to remember. Same goes for all of those companies. It's not cool being a fanboy either. Be critical of the things you like.
BUT a video game company trying to make their money by giving the audience actually fun stuff feels like something more than just one single big AAA company should be championing. Sony dipped their toes in it with Astro Bot, please don't let it end there.

[Daytime Waitress]

Mario Kart World is basically a game I've always wanted, from the first time I ever played Mario Kart 64. I can't imagine I'm not the only person who wanted a more Grand Theft Auto megagame kinda thing, that was basically a combination of Mario Kart + Mario 64.

I had basically the complete opposite reaction because the industry has conditioned me to believe that open world means "vast tracts of fuck all nothing, interspersed by the occasional bit of level (circuit) design that we would've done anyway". I understand why it's popular, and even felt it myself during the Zelda Bodily Fluids duology: the thrill of exploration, the tantalising prospect that something might be just over the horizon...

But then I remembered that despite having a lot of hours in Mario Kart 8, it's probably my least favourite driving model in the whole series: it just feels... flat.
There are lots of animatronic bears and stuff on the sidelines to give the illusion that lots of stuff is happening, sure.
But then virtually every track has got some sort of momentum-killing paragliding and diving section and it just makes me want to not bother.
And I know that that's what World is going to be, because the Switch version of 8 sold more copies than there are humans on the planet, so of course they're going to use that model.

And that rustles my jimmies because the concept of driving between stages to get to the next track, and the Outrun-style point-to-point mode look fun as fuck.
And you can now play as the cow from Moo Moo Meadows.

[BryanM]

What's the initial MSRP of a basic Switch 2 bundled set and is the overall screen itself OLED based as well?

Says it's $500 big ones for the Mario Kart bundle. Trailer says the screen is LCD, but with some fancy tech to improve contrast. Someone more knowledgeable than I would have to say if we'll have true black back or not..

]I had basically the complete opposite reaction because the industry has conditioned me to believe that open world means "vast tracts of fuck all nothing, interspersed by the occasional bit of level (circuit) design that we would've done anyway".

Understandable. The phrase 'open world' always reminds me of Jim Sterling's sarcastic mockery of Ubisoft games.

Take some solace in the fact that it's actually fun in a Grand Theft Auto game because you move really fast, there's things to see, buildings to avoid, and people to run over. The core problem isn't necessarily that content is stretched too thin, but that those games were very similar to one another fundamentally. Genshin Impact made a lot of money just by having colors, waifus, and really really good sunsets. They'd have to be intentionally jerks to screw Mario Kart up.

[Daytime Waitress]

Take some solace in the fact that it's actually fun in a Grand Theft Auto game because you move really fast, there's things to see, buildings to avoid, and people to run over.

Oh, I know that, brother - I spent a godawful time cruising the double pack for Xbox and then San Andreas.
That's why I was so disappointed for the next twenty years!

They'd have to be intentionally jerks to screw Mario Kart up.

I saw what they did with F-Zero 99 - I have faith that they can still tack on a bunch of bullshit that I didn't ask for.

Spoiler

Fully aware of the irony of saying that about "let's add jumping man to go-kart" series, yes, thanks.

[Lemnear]

But isn't it a bit of a stretch to announce all these high-profile titles at once? There's a Kirby, a Donkey Kong, a new Mario Kart, Metroid Prime 4...

It looks like only the "Domestic Version" will be Region Locked, only Japanese titles and Japanese language.

[Sumez]

I don't think it's a stretch for a large company like Nintendo to be working on three titles at the same time? (Prime being externally developed at Retro)
Not sure what makes Kirby's Air Ride particularly "high profile" either. I mean, it's gonna sell a lot for sure - but it's not Zelda.

[Lemnear]

I don't think it's a stretch for a large company like Nintendo to be working on three titles at the same time? (Prime being externally developed at Retro)
Not sure what makes Kirby's Air Ride particularly "high profile" either. I mean, it's gonna sell a lot for sure - but it's not Zelda.

Every Nintendo IP is considered by them as High-Profile to be sold at full price, ALWAYS

[Sumez]

Why would they not sell their games at full price?

[ryu]

I like to imagine Sakurai developed Kirby Air Riders all by himself with AI because nobody would pay him for a team

[Lemnear]

Why would they not sell their games at full price?

Well usually other production houses have different price tags, with various ranges...Nintendo only knows one range, Triple AAA cost (and sales of MAXIMUM 10% ).

[IrkenLurker]

I don't really get the switch love or hate. I mean it's always been kinda bland to me. It doesn't have the D-Pad, OLED, or actual pocketability that the og Vita has, so honestly my switch collects dust while I play soukyuu gurentai, command & conquer, pinball, and PCE games on my Vita. But I definitely had fun playing botw for the first time.

Honestly, the one thing I thought while watching the trailer was "but none of us have friends anymore. We're such a lonely society now. Who are we even going to video chat with?" But maybe that's just me lmao.

I'm sure they'll have enough planned obsolescence built in to make us want a switch 3 with smartglasses and ear implant compatibility .

[ryu]

Honestly, the one thing I thought while watching the trailer was "but none of us have friends anymore. We're such a lonely society now. Who are we even going to video chat with?" But maybe that's just me lmao.

I still meet up with friends and family to play together regularly and thought that trailer was utterly dystopian.

[Hazuki]

I went to their livestream today and watched a little, but 99% of the chat was "DROP THE PRICE" spamming. There was so much negativity that I couldn't concentrate on the stream itself, so I left after a while.

I'll most likely buy the console at some point, but not for now. I'm in no hurry anyway, and so far none of the games announced there interest me so much, apart from the Bravely Default remaster.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Backwards compatibility confirmed to be via an emulation layer, so I look forward to even more input lag chat.

The physical editions of Square Enix (Bravely Default) and Capcom's (Street Fighter 6) launch titles are both download keys only. Man people really want to kill off physical games - it's more expensive and it's basically nothing more than a digital download you can re-sell. Cyberpunk at least seems to be full game on card but that's going to be a tough sell when the Series X (full game on disc) version is £20.

And "Switch 2 editions" are just the regular Switch version on card with a free download of the upgrade - so also a tough sell vs. getting one 2nd hand and simply paying for the upgrade.

What is the point in offering physical as an option if publishers are going to cheap out and just use the cards as a key (but still likely charge premium)? Thus far refreshingly few titles across Playstation and Xbox ship an unplayable build on disc - but it's getting more and more common. Switch 2 going this way too is just going to kill physical dead - it's funny how the noise about game preservation has completely died down in the past, what, 5 years.

I'm definitely waiting to see how this pans out post-launch - backwards compatibility isn't going to be worth anything if too many games either don't work or are a laggy mess.

[BryanM]

What is the point in offering physical as an option if publishers are going to cheap out and just use the cards as a key (but still likely charge premium)? Thus far refreshingly few titles across Playstation and Xbox ship an unplayable build on disc - but it's getting more and more common. Switch 2 going this way too is just going to kill physical dead - it's funny how the noise about game preservation has completely died down in the past, what, 5 years.

Argh, selling nothing but a license key in a box should be criminal.

I'm ready for this to be the last generation of consoles. The profit motive has done a few good things here and there, like forever games that never end if you happen to want a particular game to never end. But it's mostly been rotten.

Let a computer make everything, sure. I'm not even sure Grand Theft Auto 6 is gonna come out before the human instrumentality stuff really picks up, and I'm certain Grand Theft Auto 7 is never going to be built by human hands.

Honestly, the one thing I thought while watching the trailer was "but none of us have friends anymore. We're such a lonely society now. Who are we even going to video chat with?" But maybe that's just me lmao.

Eh, children still have friends and parents. The whole idea is to imprint good memories and feelings from a brand in the most important developmental years of a person's life. It's always a pretty good strategy for sells guys throughout millennia.

[ryu]

Man people really want to kill off physical games - it's more expensive and it's basically nothing more than a digital download you can re-sell.

Yeah. I thought Nintendo might be interested in keeping the model alive considering how often their games are gifted for christmas and birthdays, but it's pretty obvious that they don't care. And it's understandable because of how much money they make off each E-Shop sale (steam takes a 30% code, I imagine the console stores will operate at a similar rate). Not only do they sell us nothing but digitial licenses now more than ever, you also get basically nothing else for the extra bucks you pay. No manuals and the boxes look even worse than the Switch game cases. I already feel like my Switch collection wasn't worth getting because of how ugly it is on my shelf. Going to be fun when it won't be so easy to access other regions' E-stores anymore.

[ZellSF]

I've never owned a Switch and wanted to wait for the Switch 2 for backwards compatibility, and I'm almost convinced to just grab a OLED Switch when retailers are clearing stock for the Switch 2.

Nintendo's doing pretty much everything wrong, as is typical for them.

Game key cards is a terrible concept, and since Nintendo is formalizing it they're probably going to do it themselves. Which means you won't actually own any Switch 2 games, but they'll be more expensive. And the only Switch 2 game I'm interested in is on one of those things (Bravely Default Remaster). Also it has HALF the storage space as the cheapest digital only console from five years ago. And they're ALSO making physical games more expensive? You know that will carry over to game key cards. You'll pay more, then some more for the extra storage you will need and end up with less ownership. Who's on board for this?

Backwards compatibility has some REALLY bad messaging, I'm hoping for it to be an overreaction since, but when the company's own PR makes it sound bad, that's usually not good for reality. I don't actually believe it will be bad, but there's definitely cause for concern.

They've shied away from talking about durability concerns and pricing entirely at the presentation, which shows they're ashamed of both. I'm actually not too bugged about the base price, but I sure as hell want to know if I'll be needing to regularly replace controllers or not.

Only positive talking points I saw are 120hz (will probably only be used by a few games) and 4K (most games won't render in it, but will be useful for scaling). Outside of the software, of course.

[Sumez]

Pretty sure the "game card as liense key" thing is mostly just gonna be an issue with AAA publishers. Annoying, admittedly, but hopefully it will at least make it easier to visibly document which releases to avoid? Similar to the "this is a code in a box" releases of today.

Backwards compatibility confirmed to be via an emulation layer, so I look forward to even more input lag chat.

Source? I've had those speculations but most people seem to claim the opposite

[ryu]

So I sent Nintendo a pedantic customer service request asking about the region and language capabilities of the Switch 2. Didn't even take them 10 minutes to reply to me with a generic "We can't help you with that but check out the product information page that can't answer your questions anyways" preset response.

Family members and friends already have theirs preordered and I'm sitting ducks here lmao (although I'm not sure I even need one. Mario Kart World might just be worse than MK8 and Daemon X Machina is a multi-plat title)

[Steven]

Backwards compatibility confirmed to be via an emulation layer, so I look forward to even more input lag chat.

Source? I've had those speculations but most people seem to claim the opposite

This is what Nintendo has to say about it

https://www.nintendo.com/us/whatsnew/as ... -2-part-4/

[ZellSF]

The emulation discussion, people have different definitions of that. Not sure I'd read anything in to it.

Pretty sure the "game card as liense key" thing is mostly just gonna be an issue with AAA publishers

They are already doing it. This isn't a needed change for them. I would be surprised if we aren't going to see download only first party titles very soon.

[Sumez]

This is what Nintendo has to say about it

https://www.nintendo.com/us/whatsnew/as ... -2-part-4/

Ah, there's some positives to it. It does rely on hardware similarities, and basically adjusts game binaries to target the new hardware instead. Essentially - really high level emulation, which is what I would have expected.

I don't think that's too damning, but unfortunately that means things like input and output layers are most likely targeted by emulation, which is exactly the stuff that could result in input lag. Either way it's unlikely to result in LESS input lag, unless the lag we experience on Switch is some sort of inherent hardware slaw that the Switch 2 fixed.

[ZellSF]

Either way it's unlikely to result in LESS input lag, unless the lag we experience on Switch is some sort of inherent hardware slaw that the Switch 2 fixed.

A performance boost could mean less input lag (for games that aren't already running locked 30/60). I suspect we aren't getting one, but you never know.

[Steven]

This is what Nintendo has to say about it

https://www.nintendo.com/us/whatsnew/as ... -2-part-4/

Ah, there's some positives to it. It does rely on hardware similarities, and basically adjusts game binaries to target the new hardware instead. Essentially - really high level emulation, which is what I would have expected.

I don't think that's too damning, but unfortunately that means things like input and output layers are most likely targeted by emulation, which is exactly the stuff that could result in input lag. Either way it's unlikely to result in LESS input lag, unless the lag we experience on Switch is some sort of inherent hardware slaw that the Switch 2 fixed.

Yeah, I'm not too worried about it yet. Honestly, judging by the lag tests for Switch controllers done on MiSTer (https://rpubs.com/misteraddons/inputlatency) it seems that the controllers themselves are at least partially responsible for the extra frame or two that Switch games typically have over PC/PS4/sometimes PS5. These results might not represent what happens on anything other than the MiSTer, but it's data and better than nothing. If the controllers and USB inputs for wired are better this time, it's possible that it might be better, but we'll see. Wired on Switch adding extra lag instead of getting rid of it was absolutely hilarious for the wrong reasons, so let's hope they figured that out.

I am quite interested to see what this thing can do for those Switch games that have unlocked framerates that the Switch hardware can't take advantage of, just like what the PS5 does for the PS4. PS4 on PS5 also sometimes reduces input lag for some reason, but I don't know anything about how or why.