Paying for Music

[RGC]

Music is just about more important to me than TV and videogames combined. My tastes aren't the most refined (some might even say a bit shitty ) but that shouldn't be important. I'm curious to know what you guys feel about streaming vs digital download vs physical media when it comes to music, especially in the context of making ethical choices and trying to do right by the artist. Years ago, I flogged all my CDs as they were taking up space and no longer being played, all thanks to the big "S".

Now, although I don't regret parting with all those discs, I have started to buy the occasional CD again, mostly as a way to give back. I'm aware that the royalty share for music creators is a pittance via the best known streaming platforms, but the convenience of these services for the consumer is undeniable. I'm not even sure whether a physical purchase is the best way to give back.

So yeh, I figured someone on the farm wouid have an opinion. As a music consumer do you consider the artist when paying for music, and if so what conclusions have you drawn when it comes to compensating them? I know that merch sales can help, but honestly I don't want loads of t-shirts. Also, I don't see artists live, so profits in that area aren't really relevant in my case, though it may be in yours.

[Steven]

CDs are absolutely worth buying. So are Blu-rays, 4K Blu-rays, and for those unfortunate cases where DVD is the best quality available (that DS9 is probably doomed to eternally be stuck at DVD quality is unforgivable), so are DVDs.

Streaming sucks. Never use it if you care about quality unless there is literally no other option, in which case I refuse to participate at all. Always buy physical. Fortunately non-streaming download music services in Japan started offering lossless audio recently, so at least there is that, but CDs are still better.

I suppose I should probably mention that I am using professional musicians' studio monitor headphones (the admittedly old but still Japanese music industry standard Sony MDR-CD900ST), so yes, it does matter to me because I do indeed have the hardware to take advantage of lossless and/or uncompressed audio.

[rancor]

I buy CDs if they're available. I like the packaging, and I like to rip my own discs to put on my Plex server.
If CDs are not available, I pirate. I use Soulseek or Usenet for this.
Plex can stream FLAC, so streaming isn't all bad as long as you control it.

[SuperDeadite]

For real bands, I typically buy CDs so I can rip them in the formats I prefer.

For game music I tend to record myself via VGM files.

For my daughter's awful boy band music, I do it the Japanese way, cheapo 24 hour rental from Tsutaya and rip to her phone. (Btw, this method is why MD Players were so popular in Japan.)

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

I have paid for music before. Just make sure you're paying the actual artists (something easy to check these days), that's it!

[TransatlanticFoe]

Always have done. I never understood "it's free to pirate it" or "music is too expensive". It's some of the best value for money going - for £8-15 (or £20-30 for vinyl) you can listen to some music when you want, as often as you want, forever. If anything, we have always underpaid for music!

CDs if they're available because it's a good hard copy
Vinyl if I really like the record or it's a small band I like
mp3 via Bandcamp if there's no physical option

If there's not an option to pay for at least a DRM-free mp3, I'm out. I'm not the least bit interested in streaming services - I can have my entire music library on a tiny SD card, why would I want to be reliant on paying a subscription and an internet connection (I'm on a train or driving through the countryside, internet is not a given) to do the same thing? It's not an improvement on what's currently there. Streaming is fine if you want to casually listen to some fairly mainstream and/or current stuff - it's more like a replacement for radio. Sometimes I want to listen to a b-side from 2003 of a band no-one liked that split up 20 years ago, and you simply cannot reliably do that with streaming.

[Lord British]

I probably sold about 2500 of my 3000 CDs a few years ago. Just held on to the ones that had sentimental value. Holding on to my records though, and I have a nice cassette collection too (which is mostly metal). Money and space had become more scarce.

I use YouTube Premium for music in the headphones at work. I usually buy only vinyl now.

[RGC]

I started paying for Spotify premium pretty much when it came along (cannot stand ads interrupting my listening), but was fairly ignorant about how little gets passed on to the artist. For any music I appreciate, I want the creative person behind it to make a full livable wage from their art. So it looks like I'll need to get more serious about buying physical, or DRM free digital files to support them. I don't quite buy that there's no convenience to streaming services beyond that of something like radio, or that it's limited exclusively to mainstream music (though "mainstream" is a pretty woolly term). I use spotify to discover new music all the time. I'll let it throw whatever it wants at me, and bookmark anything I like, skip anything I don't. I use the shared playlist feature a fair bit with friends and family, and I'm constantly pruning and honing my own playlists (of which I must have 50). Watching the last series of The Bear on TV, a track is used I like the sound of, so I quickly shazam it for later. Next thing I know I'm disappearing down a rabbit hole of music similar to The Budos Band. I mean, it might all be mainstream, but I don't think I'd have discovered a fraction of the music I listen to without it. Most of my playlists are downloaded too, so a stable internet connection isn't necessary unless you're exploring new content.

But I definitely want to make more of a contribution, so perhaps treating S more as a 'try before you buy' system is the way forward.

[Some-Mist]

I use bandcamp and usually buy digital albums (and/or physical items) on bandcamp Fridays when the bandcamp revenue share is waived and they pass the funds directly to the artist. I usually only buy music for the artists I truly love and want to support, and then stream the stuff I'm not gonna shell out money for https://bandcamp.com/somemist

I also go to around 15-20 shows a year which I'm not sure how much it benefits the artists, but I hope it does at least a little bit.

[vol.2]

I started buying CDs in the early 90s when it started getting harder to buy anything on vinyl anymore. In ~1994ish, someone broke into my car and stole my big folder of CDs out of the back. It was one of those gigantic ones with like 1000 CDs in it. From that point on, I decided I would never buy a CD when I could buy a record instead. I purchased a MiniDisc player and I made MiniDiscs and Cassettes of all my records to listen to in the car.

This was back before you could reliably get music online, so the realistic choice was vinyl or CD still. Once the Napster revolution happened and ppl started illegally downloading music, I had the option of just doing that, but I'd still need to burn CDs or make tapes to listen in the car, and the quality of the MP3s in those days usually sucked rocks. Also, I never really felt comfortable stealing music. I'm not trying to judge anyone else, I just won't do it because I don't feel comfortable. Even once Soul Seek came out and you could get HQ files, and there were tons of password protected servers where you could safely DL thousands of albums in HQ for free, I never jumped on board because I didn't want to do it.

To this day, I buy records on vinyl, and sometimes on cassette when possible. If I have to, I buy digital and then make a cassette of it to listen to in the car. I buy digital files off of Bandcamp usually.

I actually used to always bring cassettes with me on the plane, but it became kind of a PITA when I was going through TSA, so I stopped doing it. I'll still bring cassettes with me if I'm going on a long vacation.

Example of my Sony WM-D6C hooked up to a pair of L-R BT speakers via the aux input (vacation setup):

[Sengoku Strider]

I still have CDs and a record or two, but between books and video games it's hard to justify the space for music when I inevitably rip the files for portable use anyway. If I'm at a show and the band is selling CDs then getting one makes total sense, if there's something cool about an album as a physical object then sure. But otherwise Bandcamp is typically so affordable I'd rather get FLAC files there. So many artists only want $1-$5 for entire albums, I can pay extra and still feel like I'm saving money.

I never understood "it's free to pirate it"

I know a guy who's a classical electronic musician who ran for the Pirate Party in the provincial election. He was convinced that was going to be his big break as something or other. He's a self-styled anarchist who does a ton of drugs and is angry that the world won't give him the living he believes he's entitled to for teaching music lessons part-time, those bougie parents could afford it if only they weren't so greedy. He supplements his income by selling various prescription stimulants on the side that he knows how wheedle his way into. He's a passionate feminist who I've caught bossing women around a couple of times. He's a polyamorist who tries to guilt women out of getting involved with other guys.

He keeps insistently sending me invites on social media to his shows that I don't go to.

Sony WM-D6C

Only the finest and most precise Walkman ever made.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I like DRM free MP3s (via Bandcamp usually), or CDs that I can then rip to MP3 format. I can understand some people loving to have huge libraries of music that would make storing tons of CDs inconvenient, but I don't have a tremendous CD library so space hasn't been an issue yet. The music itself is the important thing, the exact format I store it on isn't such a big deal, but digital is most convenient.

The one thing I love about MP3 players is they don't have the skipping problem portable CD players had.

[Lord British]

I also go to around 15-20 shows a year which I'm not sure how much it benefits the artists, but I hope it does at least a little bit.

A little.

Interesting library! I'm familiar with very few of the names on it. But I like RP's Death Church on your wishlist because that's a top 10 album for me.

[vol.2]

I never understood "it's free to pirate it"

I know a guy who's a classical electronic musician who ran for the Pirate Party in the provincial election. He was convinced that was going to be his big break as something or other. He's a self-styled anarchist who does a ton of drugs and is angry that the world won't give him the living he believes he's entitled to for teaching music lessons part-time, those bougie parents could afford it if only they weren't so greedy. He supplements his income by selling various prescription stimulants on the side that he knows how wheedle his way into. He's a passionate feminist who I've caught bossing women around a couple of times. He's a polyamorist who tries to guilt women out of getting involved with other guys.

He keeps insistently sending me invites on social media to his shows that I don't go to.

God there's so much ick there makes me want to vomit.

Sony WM-D6C

Only the finest and most precise Walkman ever made.

Thanks! Yeeee. I picked it up for cheap some years ago (broken) and fixed it up. I have somewhat of a fetish for old stereo equipment and repairing stuff like that is a hobby. I've also got examples of the other Sony press recorders all the way back to the TC-152SD and then a TC-D5Pro II.

[Air Master Burst]

Full disclosure, I got hearing aids in my 30s, so sound quality means fuck-all to me this point.

If it's an artist that could actually benefit from some tangible support I'll throw down for an album or a shirt or something.

Most of the dad rappers I listen to have no need for my 15 bucks at this point; Wu Tang ain't hurting either way. And that's without even getting into predatory label execs like Diddy and Suge, in which case it's probably more ethical not to pay them.

So basically it's usually whatever's most convenient.

[Sengoku Strider]

Thanks! Yeeee. I picked it up for cheap some years ago (broken) and fixed it up. I have somewhat of a fetish for old stereo equipment and repairing stuff like that is a hobby. I've also got examples of the other Sony press recorders all the way back to the TC-152SD and then a TC-D5Pro II.

The Boards of Canada fan in me has all day for magnetic tape as a format. You're doing God's work.

Most of the dad rappers I listen to have no need for my 15 bucks at this point; Wu Tang ain't hurting either way. And that's without even getting into predatory label execs like Diddy and Suge, in which case it's probably more ethical not to pay them.

I've lost track, is RZA evil? I hit my limit on washed up rapper interviews, but I think YouTube threw a video at me where the title had some 2nd or 3rd tier Wu Tang guy complaining about him a while ago.

[vol.2]

Thanks! Yeeee. I picked it up for cheap some years ago (broken) and fixed it up. I have somewhat of a fetish for old stereo equipment and repairing stuff like that is a hobby. I've also got examples of the other Sony press recorders all the way back to the TC-152SD and then a TC-D5Pro II.

The Boards of Canada fan in me has all day for magnetic tape as a format. You're doing God's work.

Sick. Yeah, if you like BoC, you should check this out.

It's also better on tape, but what can you do?

[Air Master Burst]

I've lost track, is RZA evil? I hit my limit on washed up rapper interviews, but I think YouTube threw a video at me where the title had some 2nd or 3rd tier Wu Tang guy complaining about him a while ago.

He was a bit of a shady dick at times but certainly not Diddy/Suge levels of evil. Or at least he's better at keeping it under wraps.

[RGC]

Thanks! Yeeee. I picked it up for cheap some years ago (broken) and fixed it up. I have somewhat of a fetish for old stereo equipment and repairing stuff like that is a hobby. I've also got examples of the other Sony press recorders all the way back to the TC-152SD and then a TC-D5Pro II.

The Boards of Canada fan in me has all day for magnetic tape as a format. You're doing God's work.

Sick. Yeah, if you like BoC, you should check this out.

It's also better on tape, but what can you do?

I'll take some of that. Tomorrow's Harvest is a regular go to of mine.

[vol.2]

I'll take some of that. Tomorrow's Harvest is a regular go to of mine.

Fuck yeah. Moss of Aura is great, and that particular album (Still Parade) is in my personal favorites. But also, if you're looking for something that very much like BoC in general, Pye Corner Audio is fantastic. I learned about them from my buddy who introduced me to BoC actually.

[RGC]

I'll take some of that. Tomorrow's Harvest is a regular go to of mine.

Fuck yeah. Moss of Aura is great, and that particular album (Still Parade) is in my personal favorites. But also, if you're looking for something that very much like BoC in general, Pye Corner Audio is fantastic. I learned about them from my buddy who introduced me to BoC actually.

Thank ye kindly good sir!

[Specineff]

Back when they were a thing, I'd sign up for a free trial of Rhapsody, Yahoo Music, Napster 2.0, MusicMatch, etc., connect a Hi-Minidsc player to my computer's optical out, record up to 90 mins at a time in PCM, then copy to my computer and save the tracks in DRM-less Wav format, to later archive in FLAC. TOSLink = <3

I should try that with Amazon music.

[spmbx]

I have some cds but honestly its too much of a pain in the ass to listen to them, i do most of my listening on headphones on a laptop or phone. I don't use streaming but at the same time don't really understand the quality argument.
I buy some stuff, mainly on bandcamp, don't buy most.

[NYN]

CD only.

I loathe to term it a generational thing, can't say it differently. Too young for vinyl, to slow for the MP3, then. I think of music as an album, not singles. Buy one, skip the rest is strange to me.

I only listen to music when at home, with two options. One: in a reclined position, fully listening, without any other stimulation. Two: doing the dishes, which otherwise would feel like the galleys.

When mobile on foot outside I wouldn't want to listen to tunes, I use my hearing to navigate the realms, too. Or maybe it's simply a private affair for me.
When I hear others with perfectly vulgar volume (KIDS!) from cars and phones I feel the rise of ATTACK N0W or FLIGHT M0DE coming on.
Some "music" that some consume is just cancer. No, I don't consider myself snobbish, actually. THAT would possibly make me so...ahem.

[RGC]

I have some cds but honestly its too much of a pain in the ass to listen to them, i do most of my listening on headphones on a laptop or phone. I don't use streaming but at the same time don't really understand the quality argument.
I buy some stuff, mainly on bandcamp, don't buy most.

I'd love to say there's something sublimely ritualistic about putting a physical album on. From the selection process, the careful handling so as to avoid even a hint of blemish arriving on its spotless surface, to the purposeful, self-contained experience of turning the eardrum to that album and that one alone. And there can be! But most of the time it's just a pain in the ass! I clocked up some ridiculous number of hours "listening" to spotify last year, but much of that was merely hearing rather than active listening. I do do the latter, but I also rarely don't have something playing in the background somewhere. So I can be a lazy fuckwad listener or the fully engaged type depending on my mood. I could probably benefit from a little silence now and again.

This thread wasn't intended to bash the filthy pirates among us (Aaaarrrr!), or come across holier than thou. I'm definitely in the camp of each to their own. But discovering that that Ek bloke behind Spotify is worth three times the genius, ol' big "P" McCartney, has left a sour taste and got me thinking in terms of being a bit more supportive. Not that someone like Macca needs my loot, but there's plenty of talented lower key artists out there getting totally shafted, even though they're getting plenty of exposure.

[spmbx]

Do i prefer to sit down with no distraction or care in the world, cool belgian beer in hand an pop in some cd's and listen to some stuff? Sure, but in life that's very unlikely to happen. So usually the choice is either listen to some stuff on the go on my phone and headphones, or not listen at all.
It's like gaming. Do i prefer to sit behind my CRT setup without a care in the world and play some megadrive? Sure. But most of the time that's not going to happen and it's either play on a switch or anbernic or not play at all.

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

I listen to tons of music via youtube (not a fan of Spotify etc. since they pay most bands close to nothing), but I buy everything I enjoy, either:
- Vinyl for the bands I really like
- CDs for everything else

I also like bandcamp, especially for my favourite bands, where I usually double dip. There's also cool bands on bandcamp that don't put out anything on physical media, and it's nice to be able to give them money.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Speaking of MP3s, does anyone have any good recommendations on MP3 players? I have a very old one that's worked perfectly but in case it dies I was going to see about upgrading to one with more space. I don't generally use my phone for MP3s because I'm pretty aggressive about listening to music and suddenly having my phone be low on battery is more inconvenient to me as I use it for more than music than having to recharge my MP3 player.

I still listen to everything in MP3 rather than FLAC as I don't really notice a quality difference. Does that make me uncultured? ^^;

[vol.2]

Speaking of MP3s, does anyone have any good recommendations on MP3 players? I have a very old one that's worked perfectly but in case it dies I was going to see about upgrading to one with more space. I don't generally use my phone for MP3s because I'm pretty aggressive about listening to music and suddenly having my phone be low on battery is more inconvenient to me as I use it for more than music than having to recharge my MP3 player.

I still listen to everything in MP3 rather than FLAC as I don't really notice a quality difference. Does that make me uncultured? ^^;

MP3 players are kind of anachronistic at this point; you're either going to get something from a no-name brand that's "who-knows" quality, or something really expensive for an audiophile. Sony still makes a small, cheapo one that has like 8GB of storage and fits into your shirt pocket, but it's not going to knock your socks off. The nicer ones start at around $350 and go up to like 3k or so. They are essentially smartphones without a phone function, and they don't typically have Bluetooth either. What they do have is a clean audio path, and better amplification circuits.

It really depends on what you want to do with it (listen in car, listen while running?) and how long the battery needs to last. If you already have a smartphone that plays music, there's probably no advantage to getting a dedicated MP3 player unless you want to spend some $$$, and you really care about squeezing every last bit of performance out of your device.

MP3s are fine. They can be recorded in a multitude of different qualities, and a really HQ MP3 is going to be functionally indistinguishable from a FLAC to most people in most situations. The main reason to go with FLACs is because they more or less eliminate the problems with low quality MP3s, so long as the original recording is a good one and it was mastered correctly. The one big exception is playing stuff in clubs at very loud gain levels out of monster speakers. In those situations, the aliasing present in MP3s can show up and sound grating and sibilant. But even then not everyone is going to notice or care

[MJR]

I fell in love with vinyl again, and been busy collecting my and hunting down best pressings of my favourite music from discogs. In fact, after 20 years of listening to cd rips on computer, vinyl gave me back the joy of listening.

As for best format, there is no clear winner as there are so many variables involved, so I use bit of everything. But the experience vinyl gives is my favourite