Steven's Same! Same! Same! 1P & Tatsujin Ou Log: A Record of Misery, Pain, and Suffering™

[Steven]

Prologue of the Beginning and the End

So

(4) Goals for 2024: There are two specific games that I have in mind and I will be extremely pleased to simply survive even just one of them this year: Tatsujin Ou and Same! Same! Same! 1P version. It's not so much of a goal as it is something that would be nice, but it would indeed be nice. Even if I just finish the first loop of only one of them and do nothing else for the rest of the year, I will be happy with just that. In that sense I don't really have an actual specifically defined goal for this year, so who knows what will happen.

I've decided to more or less make at least one of these happen, and in order to motivate myself to actually do it, I figured I'd keep a log here so that every time I come here I remember my shame of having not finished the game(s) even though I said I would, at least until I actually do complete it/them. I almost submitted it after typing it, but then I figured that nobody cares, so I deleted it. It turns out that people do actually want to see it, so I'm resurrecting it here now.

I'll be keeping track of my progress in both games, possibly simultaneously, and probably not in especially specific detail unless I have some specific things that I want to say. Hopefully this will ultimately be beneficial for someone else who wants to play this game, but who knows. Commentary, encouragement, "Fuck you! You're never going to clear either of these games!", "My Saidaioujou PCB smells good and you're jealous because you don't have one~", or whatever else are welcome/encouraged.

There is no anticipated or desired timeline for clearing either of these games, especially because I'd probably become more insane than I already am if I play more than a few times every few days or so, so I might go for a week or a month or more without posting at all. It may take until December to just get one clear. That's December of 2030, BTW, but hopefully I'll have both by then.

I will be starting with Same! Same! Same! 1P first because I actually own that game. Tatsujin Ou will be purchased eventually.

If, for some insane reason, you, like me, are crazy enough to want to 1CC Same! Same! Same! 1P, YOU NEED the single greatest guide to the game ever created: the legendary Same! Same! Same! Funwari Kouryaku.

Additionally, Owarabi's counterstop and Jaimers' replay with commentary subtitles are extremely valuable. Make sure you turn on the subtitles on Jaimers' replay to read the commentary!

Prologue is over.

Time to Rock the Shooting!!!

[Steven]

3 attempts today.

Attempt 1: sniped by tank on stage 4 near the boss. Restart.
Attempt 2: sniped by tank on stage 1 near item carrier that drops flamethrower. Exit, messed around in Arcade Challenge for a little bit.
Attempt 3: New PB for both survival and score. Panic bombed through stage 5, no miss beyond stage 6 boss, got sniped by tank on the way out. Unable to recover, but relatively satisfied with this for now.

Point of first death:



Section on stage 5 with the Otakebi 2 is still a problem. More practice required.

[Lemnear]

this is the kind of topic i expected from you, i love it.

[Steven]

Spent several hours in Arcade Challenge today. Routes are done for stages 5, 6, 8, and the first halves of 7 and 10. Now I just have to figure out stage 9 and the second halves of both 7 and 10 and then put it all together. Most routes are not that different from the routes I have been using for the 2P versions, which themselves were based on the routes Jaimers used for the 1P version, so it didn't really take that long.

The hardest part is how the random powerup movement can mess up your route and force you to improvise, potentially in a very dangerous place (which in this case is the entire fucking game after stage 3) where you don't want to improvise, so you need to know exactly where and when every enemy in the game appears or you are guaranteed to die. I think it is quite literally 100% completely impossible to flail-clear this game, or even just the first four stages.

This game frustrated me today after a few attempts so I played Daioujou Black Label for a bit to relax because it's easier, at least on the first loop, which makes me laugh. As expected, while I seem to have no problem spending hours in Arcade Challenge, I will in fact go crazy if I try to play the normal Same! 1P every day. I'll probably end up spending more time in Arcade Challenge than the actual game, which I will most likely play sparingly at most.

Arcade Challenge always assumes the player has no missed to the point where you start the training and forces you to start with three bombs, but other than that I think it's fine, especially because you basically have to no miss to at least the beginning of stage 10 anyway because you probably won't survive the first loop if you don't.

this is the kind of topic i expected from you, i love it.

I do/do not love it because this game is kind of annoying sometimes and absolutely terrifying at all times. Having the goal of clearing every Toaplan game means I have no choice but to do this, but despite the clickbait thread title, I actually really love/really hate both of these games.

[SMC]

Good luck with this, I have a replay of my own to offer, which may possibly be of some use.
Other than that, keep practicing your checkpoints and make sure you get the 1UPs from the 4 Otakebi zones, which have different horizontal position requirements depending on the stage. I believe the screen width is divided into three segments and you have to be in the correct corresponding segment when an Otakebi appears for it to contain the 1UP. Once an Otakebi is given the 1UP, that's the only one you get for the entire stage, even if it escapes without being destroyed (it's really easy to accidentally cause one to get the 1UP without realising it then let it leave the screen with the stage's only 1UP).
The number of enemies on screen also can't exceed a certain number at the time the Otakebi appears or it won't be given the 1UP, and this sometimes influences which specific Otakebi you want to try to get it from (eg. of the three Otakebis in stage 5, the middle one appears alongside the most other enemies so it's the worst one to try to get the 1UP from).

Stage 3 (9 Otakebis)
Just hug the left edge at any time. The easiest one to get by far as long as you don't let it run away.

Stage 5 (3 Otakebis)
Hug the right edge - don't do this for the second one as there are a lot of tanks around as mentioned above. I prefer to wait until the final Otakebi before going right , but you can do the first one as well. This is a little harder to get as you have to use the wide shot to destroy it, which is pretty weak against the Otakebis as you have to land 16 shots on them in a short space of time. This is a bad one to fail as if you do, you'll have a green item bouncing around during the following boat section.

Stage 8 (5 Otakebis)
Sit on the last platform in the water, directly on top of where the medal appears - if you do this, the first Otakebi will have the 1UP. Alternatively you can line up with one of the igloos in the middle to get it from a later Otakebi.

Stage 10 (5 Otakebis)
This is the hardest one to get. A good position is around the right side of the central tank hangar, but the number of enemies in this stage is very high so it's easy to fail in this way. I usually use a long range bomb here to get the 1UP as it takes out a lot of the tanks at the same time and makes it more likely to hit the low enemy requirement. I wouldn't worry too much about this one unless you're running very low on lives.

[Steven]

Thanks, I'll take a look when I get a chance, but I did check what you do against the stage 3 boss and it looks like you do the thing, which is always nice to see. I do it too, but I haven't seen too many people do it yet. Most of the replays I've seen tend to play it safe instead of going for the instakill.

I was messing around with the Otakebi 1UPs the other day. Got the stage 8 one without even trying and was pleasantly surprised to do so, but I'm tempted to not even bother with the stage 10 one. That stage is completely ridiculous and for now I'm going to focus on simply not dying, but if I see a chance to get it I'll still try. The M2 gadgets make it extremely easy to get the 1UPs, but I may switch to PCB soon, so I wouldn't be able to use those. I'll use Arcade Challenge on PS5 and Switch, but I'll likely actually play on PCB if I buy one.

That stage 5 2UP can be very dangerous to get, but I found that if I destroy the carrier that holds it as I am already in position to seal the first tank on the left, and depending on the 2UP's movement, maybe seal the second tank, I can get the 2UP safely. Overall, sealing and then destroying the tanks is the priority, not the 2UP, as the 2UP will stick around long enough for me to destroy all of the tanks safely and get the 2UP before the green launchers show up.

I also discovered today that the medium green planes at the start of stage 4 will spawn just slightly outside of the boundary of the game and shoot at you from offscreen with only one wing visible and are unable to be destroyed like this if you are at the far right side of the screen when they appear, so they can kill you but you can't kill them. Wonderful. Easy enough to just be on the left side of the screen, though, so it's not really a problem.

I also find it pretty interesting that like a third of the enemies in this game are recycled from Kyuukyoku Tiger and Hishouzame but redrawn and behave slightly differently: Otakebi, long range bomber, and green launcher are all from Kyuukyoku Tiger and the small boats and those weird medium green planes that I mentioned above are pretty similar to the weird medium green planes and small boats in Hishouzame, although the green launchers here are way bigger than they are in Kyuukyoku Tiger. The player sprite in Daisenpuu also reminds me of the medium-sized green planes in Hishouzame.

[Steven]

Made it to stage 8 today. Died on stage 6, bombed my way through stage 7, and then got torn apart by the planes at the beginning of stage 8 because no speed. Still have no idea what to do for stage 9, as I wasn't expecting to even make it to stage 8 yet.

[jehu]

The clear seems to be coming together way faster than I anticipated. Stage 8 already!

Keep it up, Steven. Not going to post after every update, but I am actively reading.

[Steven]

Thanks. Most of it's because of my routing mostly carrying over from the much easier 2P versions. The Otakebi section on stage 5 is the most difficult part for me right now. It's easy to bomb through it, but then you get left with a bunch of green powerups bouncing around during the section with many small boats on the left and green launchers on the right, which will end up costing more bombs that I'd rather save for when I need them.

Overall stage difficulty ranking as of right now from hardest to easiest is probably this:

10. This stage is completely insane!
8 if you have to recover against the fleet in the middle section or against the boss
9, mostly because I have no plan for this stage as of right now
5. Crossfish says that in some ways this is harder than stage 10 and I agree. If the Otakebi didn't exist this would be much easier
7. Might be harder than 5, but I'm not sure yet and it's pretty close either way
4
6. Enemy shots are nearly invisible, but the stage is otherwise surprisingly easy, even when not at full power
8 if you don't have to recover. Still need to be careful against the fleet at the halfway point.
3
1. the random movement of the red flamethrower sometimes gets me killed when trying to avoid it, so I find it harder than stage 2
2

[ZPScissors]

Made it to stage 8 today. Died on stage 6, bombed my way through stage 7, and then got torn apart by the planes at the beginning of stage 8 because no speed. Still have no idea what to do for stage 9, as I wasn't expecting to even make it to stage 8 yet.

Nice, you're making great progress! Stage 9 isn't too bad from what I remember, although that is where it starts to become worth it to learn recoveries (and especially recovery from the boss checkpoint which I'd recommend for Stage 8 as well).

[BIL]

Valorous thread! Haven't been around as much lately due to moving house, will give this a proper read over the weekend.

I keep telling myself I'll get around to Same1P when Arcade Garage Tatsujin Ou arrives... I'll make a year of each.

[Steven]

I have a bunch of random things to talk about this time. This will be messy and unorganized, but too bad.

First, new high score. Died halfway through stage 6 to a sniper tank and only made it to the halfway point of stage 7, but my score went up by a small amount, so that could be considered an improvement. I probably just managed to make it through stage 5 with a single extra bomb compared to last time, as my score only went up by about 60,000 points.

I am now pretty comfortable with the Otakebi section on stage 5. I am not comfortable with getting the 1UP there, however. For now I am skipping that 1UP, but I'd like to work on getting it later.

Second, the game's difficulty. My opinion of this game as of right now is that it somehow feels that the difficulty is somewhat exaggerated. The "somewhat" is important. Most of the time mentioning this game immediately results in everyone thinking about how the game is insanely hard before anything else. Nobody really talks about how the game itself is actually mostly well-designed (it is) or how fun it is (it is) or how good the music is (it is) or anything else like that, only the difficulty, which I do think is exaggerated to some extent.

Once you figure out how to not die, which largely involves getting used to the very fast enemy bullet speed and high enemy firing rates, you'll probably find that the first loop actually isn't as hard as

1. you think it is
2. everyone says it is

At this point you'll probably realize that this game is good and cool and fun!

The 2P versions and the (extremely good) MD version are actually kind of boring in comparison, but they are also good training tools for the 1P arcade version, especially the MD version, which retains most of the enemy placement but is more approachable. In fact I would say and have said before that the first half of the MD version is actually harder than the first half of the Japanese 2P version! 2P is harder starting at, and not before or after, the stage 5 boss, though.

Yes, the game is still quite difficult, but it's mostly because of the speed loss when recovering and the randomness of the green laser powerups. Routing the sections without unwanted pickups bouncing around is not especially difficult, but when they are present you have to make a more general route for those sections and then improvise and/or bomb as needed to avoid getting something that you don't want. That is what makes the game difficult, so if you could theoretically minimize or reduce the amount of times you have to deal with the randomness, it would be much easier. You can do this to a limited extent by being careful when destroying or not destroying Otakebi or avoiding item carriers that you know have green powerups, but other than that it's not really feasible, especially once your shot becomes huge and enemies and item carriers are present simultaneously.

I also want to talk about recovery. This section is kind of important for anyone who wants to just get a clear and doesn't really care about score.

Recovery

My semi-recovery through stages 6 and 7 the other day made me realize something very important.

Recovery is easier than most people would have you believe. Most that are not especially experienced with the game will probably say that recovery after stage 2 or so is pretty much impossible. I've said it myself multiple times. It's not true, so I and everyone else that said it shouldn't have said it, and you shouldn't believe it. It is difficult, and in some cases very difficult, but it's always possible from any point on the first loop.

Here is the creator of the Funwari Kouryaku demonstrating how many times you can die and still clear the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kiyj5jRBAOM

Some of these were intentional to show recovery and the one at the end of stage 5 was intentional to get more bombs because it is apparently better to do an intentional miss here to have bombs for stage 6 than to go in with no bombs if you have the option.

If you need more convincing, here is over one hour of recovery strategies for stages 1-9: https://youtu.be/g-2Q4sTKjjQ?si=nLYXo0Kh0LXxWSX3

and another 15 minutes just for stage 10: https://youtu.be/6VTMmgnac44?si=I5pUB98IigTc4lTM

The commentary is also very helpful if you can read it, and I found some of it more useful than the replays, as in some cases it covers what to do in situations that didn't show up in the replay, like "if [thing that didn't happen this time] happens, bomb at [location/time] for the purpose of [desired result]" and various other useful advice. Obviously not dying at all is best, but it's possible to recover from any point and clear the game.

Once you die your score is going to go in the toilet unless you died at like stage 1 or the beginning of stage 8, which has those subs that drop bombs. I'd just restart if I died on stage 1 instead of trying to recover, though. If you want to score you have to no miss no bomb for as long as possible and get all of the lightning bolt thingies.

Like I mentioned before, the hard part is probably in not having speed. If you can survive long enough to get some speed items you might be pretty okay. You might not be able to get speed, like at the beginning of stage 10 before that crazy Otakebi section, but if you know that you can safely get speed, you should try to prioritize it if you can.

[Steven]

Made it to stage 8 today. Died on stage 6, bombed my way through stage 7, and then got torn apart by the planes at the beginning of stage 8 because no speed. Still have no idea what to do for stage 9, as I wasn't expecting to even make it to stage 8 yet.

Nice, you're making great progress! Stage 9 isn't too bad from what I remember, although that is where it starts to become worth it to learn recoveries (and especially recovery from the boss checkpoint which I'd recommend for Stage 8 as well).

Thanks. I checked out stage 9 last night in Arcade Challenge and I think it isn't too bad. I have had great trouble on that stage in the 2P versions, but it's always because I die some time before that and have no speed for that stage. I really don't like the stage 9 boss under any conditions, but if you say learning recovery for that is important, I'll do it.

Valorous thread! Haven't been around as much lately due to moving house, will give this a proper read over the weekend.

I keep telling myself I'll get around to Same1P when Arcade Garage Tatsujin Ou arrives... I'll make a year of each.

Thanks man. I really do think this game isn't quite as hard as most people say it is, so if you try it, you might be surprised at feeling the same way. It's still a hard game, but it feels like it's possible.

[Angry Hina]

The 2P versions and the (extremely good) MD version are actually kind of boring in comparison, but they are also good training tools for the 1P arcade version, especially the MD version, which retains most of the enemy placement but is more approachable. In fact I would say and have said before that the first half of the MD version is actually harder than the first half of the Japanese 2P version! 2P is harder starting at, and not before or after, the stage 5 boss, though.

I think its common to dislike easier or simpler versions of anything, you got used to in a more complex/harder way. But the audience gets of course smaller and smaller.

I think too, that same3 could have been good but I really hat the fight against the items on every version. This isnt a (for me) fun way to increase the difficulty.

Thanks for your diary anyway

[Steven]

I suppose this is true enough. At the same time I like and generally greatly prefer the relatively simple and straightforward aspects of non-bullet hell games over the sometimes highly complex, and, to me, annoyingly confusing scoring of bullet hell games. It is frustrating that these games look really cool and fun but fully enjoying such games requires interacting with scoring systems that I have no desire to engage with, but that's how it is, and this is part of why I don't really get along with bullet hell in general. There are exceptions, of course; I'd love to learn to play Saidaioujou for score, for example.

If you really wanted to play Same!, you could try playing Genesis Fire Shark, which is a little easier than the Japanese MD version, and just getting every weapon it throws at you to see how it goes, or try something similar like Mad Shark or Kyuukyoku Tiger.

[Angry Hina]

Ive cleared Fireshark (MD) at least on easy some years ago: https://youtu.be/txyr0rJTcL4
I was just glad I achieved something and could go on to something without that much kamikaze planes and deadly powerups (I after that gloryfied Daisenpuu and Tiger Heli just because they only have grounded enemies ). Of course you have to memorize in this genre very often but just remembering so many imo cheap encounters of fast planes from behind or the sides was just not fun for me. + the item thing.

I will definitely try KTiger and Mad shark this year. From videos, Mad Shark looks kinda fair and more reasonable and it played good on my first tries. But I hesitate to begin these memotizing heavy games anyway ^^

[Steven]

If you don't like kamikaze enemies you should stay away from Kyuukyoku Tiger because that has like 2000% more of them than Same!. Those gold helicopters are some of the most annoying enemies I've seen in anything ever and I love them so much because of it. The game never feels cheap or unfair, though. People generally seem to like the PC Engine version for some reason, but I don't... skip it and play the arcade version. Leave the MD version for after the arcade version because it's even harder than the arcade version and does feel cheap and unfair at times.

I heard some of the early Raiden home conversions are both manageable and generally pretty good, so maybe those might work. I think at least one of the two PC Engine versions is supposed to be good. Don't remember if it's the HuCARD or CD version, but try both.

[Steven]

To stage 9! Kind of. Today the stage 8 boss and I killed each other just as the boss timed out.

I keep getting sniped by a specific tank on stage 6. Once I deal with that tank I should be okay with stage 7, although I have no plan for the green launchers in the first few seconds of stage 7 because for some stupid reason you can't practice that part in Arcade Challenge.

[blazinglazers69]

Just jumping in to applaud your efforts. I No-Death'd the Genesis port on Normal last year and it was a ton of work for me. That damn green power-up.

The erratic kamikaze ships are so nuts too. Even with tough bullet hells the trajectories are easier to read I feel like...the zigzagging of those ships is just so tough.

[Steven]

I still have yet to no miss the MD version. I always die to something dumb on stage 8 or 9, no matter which version of the game it is. MD also has that weird thing on stage 3 where sometimes (most of the time?) an item carrier doesn't show up when it should, thereby permanently messing up the item order until you die, as everything shows up one position later than it's supposed to. I forgot exactly where it is, but it's somewhere on that stage. Pretty sure it's before the Otakebi.

Speaking of Otakebi, I took a break from Same! today to play Kyuukyoku Tiger instead. Lol this game is super easy after Same! 1P! I died a few times because I haven't played it in a while, but I still made it to 2-2 without autofire on muscle memory. It's so nice to have a game that is consistent at all times after the randomness of the Same! powerups. What an incredible game, though. Holy shit it's good. I have a very difficult time not saying that Kyuukyoku Tiger is the best game I have ever played. It's sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo fucking good. You who are reading this right now: please play it... it's so good. I promise it's good.

[Angry Hina]

If you don't like kamikaze enemies you should stay away from Kyuukyoku Tiger because that has like 2000% more of them than Same!. Those gold helicopters are some of the most annoying enemies I've seen in anything ever and I love them so much because of it.

The gold ones? It seems like most of the helis behave more or less the same (not the blue and purple ones). They look dangerous but they dont just pass the screen borde rin full speed to just crash into you or fly across half of the screen to crash into you. You can better adjust to them or throw a bomb if your position is too bad. I dont feel its that "cheap" done in KTiker like its done in Same3

The erratic kamikaze ships are so nuts too. Even with tough bullet hells the trajectories are easier to read I feel like...the zigzagging of those ships is just so tough.

yeah

People generally seem to like the PC Engine version for some reason, but I don't... skip it and play the arcade version.

possibly just because its easier. I came to the stage 5 boss after an hour or so of training it. Its extremely generous in terms of extra life and bomb duration. You can really go into melee or collect most items on screen if you throw one. Thats fun ^^

Leave the MD version for after the arcade version because it's even harder than the arcade version and does feel cheap and unfair at times.

I heard some of the early Raiden home conversions are both manageable and generally pretty good, so maybe those might work. I think at least one of the two PC Engine versions is supposed to be good. Don't remember if it's the HuCARD or CD version, but try both.

Thanks for the hints. Sadly I dont own a PCEngine and dont like to play on PCs, so... possibly later^^

Speaking of Otakebi, I took a break from Same! today to play Kyuukyoku Tiger instead. Lol this game is super easy after Same! 1P! I died a few times because I haven't played it in a while, but I still made it to 2-2 without autofire on muscle memory. It's so nice to have a game that is consistent at all times after the randomness of the Same! powerups. What an incredible game, though. Holy shit it's good. I have a very difficult time not saying that Kyuukyoku Tiger is the best game I have ever played. It's sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo fucking good. You who are reading this right now: please play it... it's so good. I promise it's good.

But its a bit dry if your not already into it would be better, if same!same!same! whould be better
Whats Okebi by the way? It translates to war cry or something.

[Steven]

If you don't like kamikaze enemies you should stay away from Kyuukyoku Tiger because that has like 2000% more of them than Same!. Those gold helicopters are some of the most annoying enemies I've seen in anything ever and I love them so much because of it.

The gold ones? It seems like most of the helis behave more or less the same (not the blue and purple ones). They look dangerous but they dont just pass the screen borde rin full speed to just crash into you or fly across half of the screen to crash into you. You can better adjust to them or throw a bomb if your position is too bad. I dont feel its that "cheap" done in KTiker like its done in Same3

Yeah, the gold helis are crazy annoying! They are the most dangerous enemy in the entire game, including the bosses! This is mostly because they can be unpredictable and they fly around in a weird fashion, which makes them hard to hit if you don't have a spread shot, but it also makes them smash into your helicopter sometimes. I really like them, though. It's nice to see a game with a zako-class enemy that is potentially super dangerous!

People generally seem to like the PC Engine version for some reason, but I don't... skip it and play the arcade version.

possibly just because its easier. I came to the stage 5 boss after an hour or so of training it. Its extremely generous in terms of extra life and bomb duration. You can really go into melee or collect most items on screen if you throw one. Thats fun ^^

I have heard it has some very difficult checkpoints later in the game. Perikles says it's harder than the already brutal MD version, which makes me very scared of the PC Engine version. The MD version is also more accurate to the arcade version in general, which is why I don't really care for the PC Engine version, but the MD version is also very difficult.

But its a bit dry if your not already into it would be better, if same!same!same! whould be better

It could use a few adjustments, but the MD version is about as good as it's going to get. That was supposedly the intended level of difficulty, not the crazy 1P version, so it might be considered to be the best version of the game.

Whats Okebi by the way? It translates to war cry or something.

This bastard is the Otakebi:


The version of this in Same! Same! Same! is called Otakebi 2 and looks different, but it's more or less the same thing aside from shooting a forward shot on occasion in addition to the stream shot.

BTW every single enemy type in Kyuukyoku Tiger has a unique name, although the helicopters are all just called heli. Even the small boats have different names, but they are just Boat A, Boat B, Boat C, and Boat D or something like that, depending on which direction they travel in. I have all of the official names in the Kyuukyoku Tiger ST that I am working on (very very slowly), which I would like to put up eventually. M2 actually made a mistake in the gadgets: the big hovercraft is officially called hovercraft oblage, but they mislabeled the torpedo boat as also being called hovercraft oblage.

[gray117]

Seems like it should be possible = toaplan's thing

For me that's their console versions, although must admit with all the ports recently I've been feeling the pull from the lovely arcade versions... Just don't think I'm up to it.

Good looking luck Steven - but sure you've already accomplished more than I would manage.

[Steven]

To stage 9, but for real this time. Made it halfway through the stage but wasn't paying attention and crashed into a plane and died. I haven't played the game for about a week, so I am pleased. Stage 9 itself isn't too bad, so I think I can clear the stage with a little bit more practice.

Spoiler

My score is lower because I died on stage 5 during the Otakebi section and then again during the boss fight.

A few days ago I talked with Get Star/Slap Fight/Hishouzame/Kyuukyoku Tiger/Hellfire/Same! Same! Same!/Dogyuun!! artist Iwabuchi-san, who really loves this game despite its difficulty, and I finally got him to sign my Retro-Bit Fire Shark.

Spoiler

I am not really sure how I never got this signed up until now. The only Toaplan game I have without someone's name written on it now is Dash Yarou, but the people who made that are very difficult to meet.

Seems like it should be possible = toaplan's thing

For me that's their console versions, although must admit with all the ports recently I've been feeling the pull from the lovely arcade versions... Just don't think I'm up to it.

Good looking luck Steven - but sure you've already accomplished more than I would manage.

Thanks. Try the Japanese 2P version. It's surprisingly easy, one of the easier Toaplan games in general, and not that much more difficult than the MD version on normal. Just don't die on stage 7. Bad things happen when you die on stage 7 in the 2P versions.

[Steven]

I made it to the green things just before the stage 9 boss today.

This game seems to have made me better at reflex dodging. How I managed to not die here twice is unknown. Skill or lucky flail? Who knows, but I'm getting close to the end either way. I keep dying to stupid things on stage 6, so once I stop doing that it should be easier. Might try again later today.

[blazinglazers69]

I made it to the green things just before the stage 9 boss today.

This game seems to have made me better at reflex dodging. How I managed to not die here twice is unknown. Skill or lucky flail? Who knows, but I'm getting close to the end either way. I keep dying to stupid things on stage 6, so once I stop doing that it should be easier. Might try again later today.

Great work and VERY solid dodges, dude. I love when moments like that happen because it's like your instinct is just overriding your conscious mind. It's pure skill in its rawest, most zen form. I was fortunate enough to capture a moment like that on my Genesis run as well.

Keep going! You're on quite the journey.

[Steven]

Haven't been playing much at all recently because I've been having difficulty sleeping and constantly feel tired, partially due to ongoing construction a few meters away from my house, but I made it to stage 9 again last night. Once again crashed into an unexpected plane from the side and died and was unable to recover, so it seems that I do need to practice recovery on this stage. I did practice recovering against the boss but was unsuccessful by myself, so I'm probably going to use the Funwari Kouryaku instead of trying to figure it out alone, both for the boss and for the stage, because I'm tired of dying over and over here when I am so close to the end.

Those sections with the big green plane and the small biplanes from the sides are the main trouble right now because they always seem to crash into me, but then I also have to figure out what to do for playing the second half of the stage with the 3-way in case I die. Those green things on the rails are very dangerous when you only have the 3-way. Otherwise I don't think stage 9 is especially difficult.

Current stage difficulty ranking:

10
5
7
9
8
6
4
2 if you don't bomb the boss
3
1
2 if you do bomb the boss


Stage 9 will probably drop a bit once I figure out what to do to not die. I stopped bombing the stage 2 boss about two weeks ago. I don't think it's worth it. I'd rather keep that bomb for later in case I need it to save me and also to get more points.

Stage 1 without 30Hz autofire to instakill the bosses makes that stage way harder, and possibly harder than anything else in the entire first half of the game aside from the stage 5 boss (also assuming no auto), but basically nobody ever plays this game without auto. I'd love to get a no auto clear eventually just for the hell of it.

I made it to the green things just before the stage 9 boss today.

This game seems to have made me better at reflex dodging. How I managed to not die here twice is unknown. Skill or lucky flail? Who knows, but I'm getting close to the end either way. I keep dying to stupid things on stage 6, so once I stop doing that it should be easier. Might try again later today.

Great work and VERY solid dodges, dude. I love when moments like that happen because it's like your instinct is just overriding your conscious mind. It's pure skill in its rawest, most zen form. I was fortunate enough to capture a moment like that on my Genesis run as well.

Keep going! You're on quite the journey.

I think changing from stick to PS5 controller made it way easier to dodge like this. Unlike an arcade lever, d-pads don't have deadzones, so changing directions is significantly faster. I only wish that I could play console ShotTriggers with a keyboard so I can be even faster.

[Steven]

Have not been playing much of anything recently because I am still having difficulty sleeping and still always feel exhausted no matter how much I do or do not sleep, but I made it to stage 9 again a few days ago. No miss to the halfway point of stage 7 and then played very badly and wasted about 6 lives recovering against the stage 7 boss and then wasted all but two against the stage 8 boss, neither of which I have had difficulty with before.

Shortly after that I realized that I have no idea how to recover on stage 10, which is a problem because I don't expect to no miss that stage without extreme practice. If I could get through the Otakebi at the beginning of the stage with the full power wide shot I could probably no miss the rest of the stage if I really practiced a lot, but my strategy for now is the strategy that is recommended on the Funwari Kouryaku: forget about score, forget about the no miss, and resign yourself to doing the bomb-die-bomb thing through stage 10 while attempting to get as far as possible on each life. I can make it to stage 8 with a bunch of lives if I don't mess up too badly on stage 7, so I want to get a bunch of extends and bomb through stage 10. It's not a good plan, but it's what I have for now.

I tried playing this with stick the other day for the first time in a while and it was absolutely miserable. How the hell do people play with this input method? Given the physical distance that the lever must travel between opposite directions, it felt like I had added 160ms of input lag to the game, which means playing on stick fucking sucks! It is the worst controller, and I can't do those super fast dodges on stick like I can on the PS5 controller because I end up dying instead. Get a keyboard or a d-pad. Those are better. Way better. Maybe it's just the Hayabusa lever in my thing that sucks, but keyboard and d-pad are still the best and second best. My desire for a good keyboard or Saturn controller that works on a PS5 only grows with time. Fighting Commander Octa exists, but it's a scalper item here, unfortunately.

[gray117]

Which stick?
But yeah hence the relative fascination in stick type etc. and often shmup preference for a seimitsu stick vs. even a good sanwa.

Satisfaction in input method is really the reason to continue using a stick, aside from years of familiarity, it's not necessarily an objective choice. And it does take a long time to adjust to... IMHO if this is an element of what helps someone in their experience of playing a game; that in itself is a valuable resource when talking of motivation/enjoyment... although not objective input accuracy.

A hitbox, with optimum button type + layout for a given user, (and assuming you have good control over moving your fingers independently - an ability often overlooked), is probably the most efficient input given key/button quality and responsiveness (vs pad/keyboard).

Use whatever makes you feel best

(Personally for most arcade games I would choose a sanwa stick, mostly due to early background in fighting games. But funnily enough most of my toaplan playing has actually been on console ports via pc engine or megadrive pads... I am a fairly bad, and uncommitted, player no matter what - but I enjoy it )

[Steven]

It's the RAP N and it has the stock Hayabusa lever. The LS-32s in my New Astro City are much better, but I still would prefer a good keyboard instead, which is why I am seriously considering replacing the LS-32s with WASD things.

I can't put the LS-32s from the Astro in the RAP N because the connectors are different, probably because the LS-32s are super old. I could get a more modern LS-32 with the proper connector if I really wanted to, but I only really use a stick for games where I want to fire manually, which is miserable on a controller, and so that I don't feel completely weird if I go to an arcade in town and am forced to use a stick.

I have thought about getting a custom arcade controller with an Astro City 1P side button layout (yes, I am one of those few people that likes 1P more than 2P) and WASD instead of a lever, which would be nice. Unfortunately I get paid in yen, which means my money is practically worthless, so with the exchange rate being what it is, I have decided to use the PS5 controller for now.

The general lack of PS5 controllers is really weird, but at least the stock PS5 controller has an okay d-pad. It's not the best, but it works well enough and it's way better than attempting to play Saidaioujou with a standard 360 controller.

I may be getting a Same! Same! Same! 1P PCB very soon, in which case I will switch from playing on PS5 to playing on the Astro, which will be interesting. This would actually end up hindering me because I don't have enough buttons to have both the autofire settings that I like and also be able to use the flamethrower, but I'll still try it anyway and just have a manual shot and a 30Hz shot.

All versions of the Same! Same! Same! PCB are some of the more rare Toaplan PCBs, but the first time I ever played the arcade version was indeed on a 1P PCB at Mikado. They put it and Wardner in over at Takadanobaba to celebrate Hishou Same! Same! Same!, so I got to play both of them for the first time on PCB that day. I played the 2P version at Joe's house since he has both of them. We wanted to get some 2 player double max flamethrower footage for the documentary, which would have been amazing, but it didn't work out too well because we somehow failed to realize that when both players are have max power flamethrowers all of the enemy bullets become almost completely invisible... it was REALLY REALLY AWESOME for the 5 seconds or so that we did both have max power flamethrowers, but we both died almost immediately because we couldn't see anything. It takes FOREVER for both players to reach max power when played as a 2 player game, but it was worth it just for those very few seconds we were able to experience it.