Killer interview with multiple OG Irem devs

[Sengoku Strider]

Credit to TimeExtension, 7 original Irem devs talk about their thoughts on design following the new collection:
https://www.timeextension.com/news/2024 ... d-sekaikan

MEEHER: The advantage of checkpoints is the developer can decide on when and where enemies appear, to provide an optimally-curated play-experience. In addition, it allows for a more game-like setting and can heighten playability by readjusting power-ups when respawning, and by removing the player's ability to brute force their way through tough spots with temporary invincibility. It gives players a sense of achievement when they go back a little and repeat the same section. The player can get the satisfaction of "solving the puzzle" intended in the game design through observing a pattern to recover from a respawn. The player gets a chance to prepare themselves and their equipment / power-ups etc., and reattempt the challenge even if they fail once. The only way to see the whole game is to finish it, which maintains the interest of players who are particular about finishing games.

Poetry.

[Steven]

Checkpoints >>>>>>>>>>>>>> respawns

Irem >>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone except Toaplan

How many simultaneous multiplayer games are there that have checkpoints? Tatsujin Ou has them, so if both players die at around the same time, you get sent back to a happy checkpoint together!

[XoPachi]

Japanese arcade developers are the peak minds of the industry.

[Rastan78]

Awesome thanks for sharing this

OYAMA: Checkpoint systems can be used to boost scores by deliberately killing yourself in the most efficient places for scoring and sacrificing remaining lives for additional points. It's almost like a game of "tsume shogi", where the player is placed in a position where they need to achieve checkmate, but there are very few correct routes to doing this. If the difficulty is too high, the player may not be able to progress.

Nice to have a rebuttal for when players claim checkpoint milking is broken and a complete developer oversight. As if somehow people smart enough to develop intricately balanced video games would be surprised that you gain points that way.

[RobHimself]

Checkpoints are for bitches.

[MJR]

Awesome thanks for sharing this

OYAMA: Checkpoint systems can be used to boost scores by deliberately killing yourself in the most efficient places for scoring and sacrificing remaining lives for additional points. It's almost like a game of "tsume shogi", where the player is placed in a position where they need to achieve checkmate, but there are very few correct routes to doing this. If the difficulty is too high, the player may not be able to progress.

Nice to have a rebuttal for when players claim checkpoint milking is broken and a complete developer oversight. As if somehow people smart enough to develop intricately balanced video games would be surprised that you gain points that way.

This^^

Loved this interview.
Favourite quote: ”They call me the dark lord of perverts”

[Sengoku Strider]

Checkpoints are for bitches.

I haven't collected any stats, but I'm pretty sure 100% of the bitching comes from the anti-checkpoint side.

[Steven]

It's almost ironic that Irem's best STG, Kaitei Daisensou, doesn't have checkpoints at all.

[MJR]

It's almost ironic that Irem's best STG, Kaitei Daisensou, doesn't have checkpoints at all.

That's certainly a hot take. I thought everyone agreed since stone age that R-type is the best

[Steven]

It's almost ironic that Irem's best STG, Kaitei Daisensou, doesn't have checkpoints at all.

That's certainly a hot take. I thought everyone agreed since stone age that R-type is the best

I can do even better; the reason that I feel that R-Type isn't the best is mostly because of its checkpoint recovery being not so great. I like and prefer checkpoints over the instant respawn, but in R-Type's case I feel that recovery is a little bit more difficult than it should be, especially because of the general lack of bits; there are only three of them in the entire game!

[MJR]

It's almost ironic that Irem's best STG, Kaitei Daisensou, doesn't have checkpoints at all.

That's certainly a hot take. I thought everyone agreed since stone age that R-type is the best

I can do even better; the reason that I feel that R-Type isn't the best is mostly because of its checkpoint recovery being not so great. I like and prefer checkpoints over the instant respawn, but in R-Type's case I feel that recovery is a little bit more difficult than it should be, especially because of the general lack of bits; there are only three of them in the entire game!

OK, great, you have right to an opinion, but I think this was quite enough

[Rastan78]

Let me guess. Toaplan did it better?

Checkpoints wouldn't really work in In the Hunt with the lack of forced scrolling and the slow pace would they? Hard to compare it with R-Type 1 to 1.

That said the whole die repeatedly to use your resources for milking then 1-life the rest of the credit does exist in In the Hunt. I'm not sure the exact strat. You suicide all lives to reset the timer to 99 somewhere in the lava stage if I'm not mistaken.

[Ice Beam]

The only thing I have against checkpoints is the game comes to a grinding halt, and I have to wait for it to start up again before I can keep playing. Is there an arcade game that has "instant" checkpoints? I'm imagining it working like a quick restart (but with the loss of a life and all powerups, since that's how checkpoint systems work). I wonder if that would be a lot more punishing than the "pause" checkpoint systems usually have.

[XoPachi]

That's fair, but sometimes instant respawns can just take you out of the game entirely which is probably worse. When you over rely on the i-frames and restocks generated on a respawn, it trivializes whatever you're stuck on and kills all pressure and balance. Especially if you're not that good and chain death > bomb spam > or face tank to the point where you might as well just restart the entire game. I've seen people get stuck on a boss in DoDonPachi or something, and just give up as they death abuse and spam instead of reengaging and trying to figure out the pattern. Yeah sure, you're "moving forward" but for a lot of new players they're no longer mentally in the game anymore. Checkpoints send you back and it can be defeating, but you are at least forced to actually jump back in mentally and think about how you plan to advance.

Me personally I don't have a preference and understand why both exist. Games that don't have checkpoints typically punish you in other ways or, in the case of more daring devs like Yagawa, use the advantages of respawning and make it into a gameplay mechanic.

[Lemnear]

Mitsuo KODAMA - ”They call me the dark lord of perverts”

Kazuma KUJO - "I was quite angry in my 20s; I was frustrated about my shortcomings as a developer. I think that's why I had nicknames like Oni or Kire. Oni is an ogre, or demon. Kire means anger, or it can mean snapping."

This interview just confirmed what i already thought about them.
Japanese developers who at one point watched Rambo and Alien...their sanity complete exploded to the point where H.R.Giger became their favorite Hentai artist.
Only this can explain the amount of "tentacle/serpentine" elements presents in a lot of their games, or the unquantifiable amount of fury in a couple of moments in GunForce 2.

I love them even more now

[BIL]

Japanese developers who at one point watched Rambo and Alien...their sanity complete exploded to the point where H.R.Giger became their favorite Hentai artist.

Aphoristic, probably true. Story of an epoch.

[Lemnear]

Spoiler

Japanese developers who at one point watched Rambo and Alien...their sanity complete exploded to the point where H.R.Giger became their favorite Hentai artist.

Aphoristic, probably true.

Always on team Alien [petting my Xenomorph like a kitten]

I like this kind of interview, i didn't know that the japanese developers used nicknames in the past, and that's why it was difficult to find the original developers.
It just added to the charm.

[Skyknight]

I wonder how games that effectively mix checkpoint and continuity are seen. Although I only know/remember one game being like that, Daiou (I'm going to guess that Shienryuu is likewise)--checkpoints during the main stages, continuity during the bosses (except the final boss; still have to go back to step one to dismantle that thing).

But there's probably a matter of how much players of various types value, to use Uemura Tatsuya's phrase, making a pattern. I can see how that particular conceit can be seen as demanding rote, not exactly the most appealing thing out there.

[RobHimself]

The only thing I have against checkpoints is the game comes to a grinding halt, and I have to wait for it to start up again before I can keep playing. Is there an arcade game that has "instant" checkpoints? I'm imagining it working like a quick restart (but with the loss of a life and all powerups, since that's how checkpoint systems work). I wonder if that would be a lot more punishing than the "pause" checkpoint systems usually have.

So if you run out of lives and continue, you want to be in the same exact spot, correct? That's how Battle Garegga works.

[Kino]

i didn't know that the japanese developers used nicknames in the past, and that's why it was difficult to find the original developers.
It just added to the charm.

... you mean to tell me people weren't naming their kids "llaoyllakcuf" and "My Home Papa" back in the day? I feel so lied to.

(Relatedly, I've been doing alot of research over the past year, and have uncovered the real names of a good portion of Irem's staff, as well as which titles they worked on. Might have to do a thread regarding this, in the near future.)

Back on topic, the secret Gunforce II lore was the true moment of zen in the interview, IMO:

MEEHER: [...] Part of the game's scenario / worldview is that the female player character is an artificial human / android named Apple, whose body can be a source of sustenance for humans in times of emergency, and it is theorised that her name comes from the taste.

Between that and his original ideas for Rosa, I think "the dark lord of perverts" has some competition.

[Licorice]

Checkpoints >>>>>>>>>>>>>> respawns

Irem >>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone except Toaplan

How many simultaneous multiplayer games are there that have checkpoints? Tatsujin Ou has them, so if both players die at around the same time, you get sent back to a happy checkpoint together!

Didn't know that about Tatsujin Ou.

I like checkpoints too. They're a really big commitment design-wise as they effect so many things.

I am especially fond of G.Rev's takes on checkpoints with Under Defeat and Border Down. In Under Defeat, it's checkpoint on continue, but not miss, so you still get the practice and learning benefit of having checkpoints. Border Down otoh teleports you to a whole alternate level.

[velo]

I can do even better; the reason that I feel that R-Type isn't the best is mostly because of its checkpoint recovery being not so great. I like and prefer checkpoints over the instant respawn, but in R-Type's case I feel that recovery is a little bit more difficult than it should be, especially because of the general lack of bits; there are only three of them in the entire game!

I don't know why that's even a hot take. Even R-Type 2 is a lot more reasonable with checkpoints.

[Steven]

Didn't know that about Tatsujin Ou.

It depends on the timing, so you might not experience it all the time. It's really weird and I have never seen another game that works like this. There's probably something that does, but I haven't seen it yet.

I can do even better; the reason that I feel that R-Type isn't the best is mostly because of its checkpoint recovery being not so great. I like and prefer checkpoints over the instant respawn, but in R-Type's case I feel that recovery is a little bit more difficult than it should be, especially because of the general lack of bits; there are only three of them in the entire game!

I don't know why that's even a hot take. Even R-Type 2 is a lot more reasonable with checkpoints.

Yeah, but R-Type II is also completely insane, especially on loop 2 and particularly on the PS1.

[velo]

Yeah, but R-Type II is also completely insane, especially on loop 2 and particularly on the PS1.

Perhaps. Still, pretty good checkpoints.

[Angry Hina]

What the say about checkpoints does really just apply to games without bombs, i think. In Toaplan games for instance, the devs often rely on the ability to skip too hard sections (after a checkpoint but also within the entire game) with bombs. It makes a big difference anyway but yeah... you can "cheat" anyway