Tatsujin Extreme

[spmbx]

Yeah the "kids don't like pixel art" thing doesn't resonate with me at all. I regularly visit Europe's biggest arcade, and it is always mostly full of kids (teenagers and under) who are playing arcade games made in the 80s and 90s.

Out of curiosity, what arcade is that?
I'm kindof surprised to see people say tatsujin ou has the greatest spritework ever, is that the general concensus? While absolutely not an ugly game, seeing it running i don't really get "wow this is the best ever by far" vibes personally. Again, it certainly is pretty and there's nothing wrong with it.

[DietSoap]

Compared to older arcade games, it obviously looks like shit. Compared to other modern 3D shmups like Raiden V or Sol Cresta (as another user mentioned), I don't think it looks bad. Pretty comparable to R-Type Final 2 imo. Main thing is it's too fucking dark.

Also outside of visuals, god DAMN that looks vertically cramped.

EDIT: Tried to brighten it up a bit. Looks like shit because I don't know what I'm doing, but hopefully you get the idea.

[bcass]

Out of curiosity, what arcade is that?

Arcade Club (Bury, UK).

I'm kindof surprised to see people say tatsujin ou has the greatest spritework ever, is that the general concensus? While absolutely not an ugly game, seeing it running i don't really get "wow this is the best ever by far" vibes personally. Again, it certainly is pretty and there's nothing wrong with it.

I'm not sure anyone has said it is the best sprite work ever. Also, as with most sprite based games from the 80s / 90s, the graphics are best viewed via a 240p CRT.

[Sumez]

I've seen fools that literally will not buy modern games that use pixel art specifically because they use pixel art. It's ridiculous, but consumers are stupid, so there isn't much you can really do about it.

This is a very common take unfortunately, and it's the primary reason most games that don't need 3D graphics use 3D graphics regardless.
Again, I don't buy the "2D is expensive" take. An artist draws the 2D and you pay them, it's nothing special really, games have many more expenses that are much higher. 3D is expensive, too.

The game being 3D isn't what will put most people off playing it. The fact that it is poorly realised, horribly generic low-effort 3D will be the bigger issue.

This, of course, is the bigger issue.

[Angry Hina]

I think we are either looking at very rough early version, OR they are just simply not used to develop things on 3D yet.

Of course its extremely early. We see the same approach of one of the satallites with different enemies and weapons again and again. Its very likely that there will be many changes till release.

[jehu]

I guess I'm cautiously optimistic, and I say let 'em cook.

Sometimes the first look at a game's content isn't fully baked.

Spoiler

Hope they tune up the UI, among other things.

[Sumez]

This looks a lot less bad than the trailer video. Actually feels like Tatsujin, it's just the backgrounds that are incredibly bland.
https://twitter.com/charlie0816/status/ ... 1159698649

The panning is weird (especially with the powerup items), and honestly even having panning in a 16:9 vertizontal is incredibly bold.

[Steven]

*in-place respawn instead of checkpoints*

I am disappointed

This looks much better, though. I'll play it myself in a few days and find out how it is.

[mycophobia]

no checkpoints. hmmm.

[mycophobia]

tatsujin this is not

[Steven]

In-place respawn in a game that has speed powerups usually turns out to be disastrous. Can't wait to chain death due to respawning inside a giant mess of shit with no speed.

[jehu]

In-place respawn in a game that has speed powerups usually turns out to be disastrous. Can't wait to chain death due to respawning inside a giant mess of shit with no speed.

I'd prefer checkpoints myself, too. I wonder if there's a chance the respawns are a TGS concession to keep the game rolling and get more people shuttled through the demo level.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Yikes I hope they do something with the way the background elements change as it pans left/right because it quickly made me feel ill. R-Type Final 2 did a similar effect and I couldn't play it due to motion sickness

Skull bomb is disappointing too, it's far too subtle!

[Steven]

In-place respawn in a game that has speed powerups usually turns out to be disastrous. Can't wait to chain death due to respawning inside a giant mess of shit with no speed.

I'd prefer checkpoints myself, too. I wonder if there's a chance the respawns are a TGS concession to keep the game rolling and get more people shuttled through the demo level.

Yeah, it's possible. I guess it wouldn't be too bad if your starting speed is generally pretty decent enough, but I've had way too many bad experiences with 2P Same! and 2P Hellfire to enjoy this combination of design elements.

I am quite amazed that this game actually has speed ups. When was the last new game that had speed ups? Gradius V, maybe? That's the newest one I can think of right now.

[kid aphex]

I’m in. This looks LEAGUES better than R-Type Final 2.
(R-Type Final 1 looks better than R-Type Final 2…)

[Sumez]

Tatsujin without checkpoints feels really wrong. The most fun part of mastering Tatsujin was learning all the recoveries (only to then just no-miss through most of the first loop and not need them)

[velo]

Looks good enough that I really want it to get off of PS5. Occasionally checkpoints are even a toggleable option, so maybe there's hope there.

[Sumez]

Checkpoints being something you can enable doesn't help it much The game needs to be designed around it. I really wouldn't enjoy checkpoints in, say, a Cave game.

[velo]

Checkpoints being something you can enable doesn't help it much The game needs to be designed around it. I really wouldn't enjoy checkpoints in, say, a Cave game.

Obviously "enabled" would be the default option and "disabled" would be for crazy people, hypothetically.

[kid aphex]

Not sure if people have suggested it but the respawn could just be for the trade show floor.

[Angry Hina]

Checkpoints being something you can enable doesn't help it much The game needs to be designed around it. I really wouldn't enjoy checkpoints in, say, a Cave game.

It could be the case, that its a around checkpoints designed game with a checkpoint-less gamemode as the default mode (for not scaring the main audience (which are not the very few people who enjoyed and actually played through classic Tatsujin titles)) whith some difficulty/rank adjustments.

I’m in. This looks LEAGUES better than R-Type Final 2.
(R-Type Final 1 looks better than R-Type Final 2…)

Well does it? Not sure if serious. And of course RTF1 doesnt look better compared to RTF2 in a technical view. But it does have more "handmade" detailes in some stages (but dont forget the lasier stages like 4, 5, 6.2, F-A and F-C) which makes it the game that simply looks like the developers had more time and even money. It looked not that of a small niche project like STGs look today (and most looked that day even back than).

But as I said, not every stage of RTF1 looked good. In my opinion its just the stages 1-3 and 6 which look really good and in RTF2 some situations look awesome because of the lighting and physics effects alone.

I am quite amazed that this game actually has speed ups. When was the last new game that had speed ups? Gradius V, maybe? That's the newest one I can think of right now.

Yeah, because everyone was glad they dissapeared back than (outside of a little part of the very hardcore Arcade/1cc-Scene) and the dissapearence of all these Upgrades and items makes "mdern" Danmakus feel so much less frustrating/more modern. I dont like them but of course they are a essential part of Tatsujin 1 as the Checkpoints are for R-Type (whats the last STG with ckeckpoints except R-Type Final 2? They make the game for most people feel much less accessible).

Skull bomb is disappointing too, it's far too subtle!

I think it looks very good but a bit more long lasting or with a more bold effect I would like it possibly more I guess.

[pieslice]

Skull bomb is disappointing too, it's far too subtle!

I can send them the asset I used to render CW skull bomb if they ask

[DMC]

I'll call it Tatsujin once I see some serious cheating controversy involving it.

[Sumez]

I am quite amazed that this game actually has speed ups. When was the last new game that had speed ups? Gradius V, maybe? That's the newest one I can think of right now.

Yeah, because everyone was glad they dissapeared back than (outside of a little part of the very hardcore Arcade/1cc-Scene) and the dissapearence of all these Upgrades and items makes "mdern" Danmakus feel so much less frustrating/more modern. I dont like them but of course they are a essential part of Tatsujin 1 as the Checkpoints are for R-Type (whats the last STG with ckeckpoints except R-Type Final 2? They make the game for most people feel much less accessible).

I think the variable speed of Tatsujin is at the same time the most janky feeling aspect of the game, and also probably its most defining asset, that I somehow wouldn't be without.
Either you're maxed out on speed, and need to strategically slam against the wall to macrododge incoming attacks, or you're freshly respawned and trying to haul your slow ass around while leading aimed shots, trying to not get trapped. There's no pretty in-between.

Or, well, there is. But only if you decide to omit picking up extra speedups when you're at a comfortable speed - and if you do that, are you really playing Tatsujin?

[Angry Hina]

I think, its too difficult to dodge the last ~two speedups before max for the whole rest of the game or through several loops. I guess you have to deal with the max speed and try to only slightly touch the stick/contoler if you have to "micro" dodge (if you can call it micro in the times of huge hitboxes) in the later stages were you cannot avoid it.

But beneath the R-Type like memorizing focused level design, the extreme movement speed is the essence of its gameplay and what makes it unique.

[Sumez]

You don't avoid speed-ups in Tatsujin. Tatsujin is all about taking all the speed-ups!
And yeah, you can do some learned positioning to dodge specific attacks, but I wouldn't try micrododging at max.

[Angry Hina]

What else can you do against the final boss?

[Steven]

So yeah. I bring information that everyone here wants to know. Well, I hope you do. If you don't, you actually do anyway. Here are some dudes talking about this game.

Spoiler

Uemura-san, Yuge-san, and Joker Jun all talked about their involvement in the game for a little bit, but I'm going to talk about the cool stuff that I got directly from Yuge-san.

After the big presentation, I wandered around a bit, talked to Iwabuchi-san, got Snow Bros Wonderland, Tatsujin Extreme, and the Toaplan phone game posters from Hayashi-san for some reason (not sure if they were giving these to everyone, but she gave them to me), and then I somehow ran into Yuge-san and we started talking about stuff.

Eventually we got to Tatsujin Extreme, and I asked who is making the game and he grinned and pointed to... himself. Yes, he's making this game himself.

Development is about 20% finished. They started it last summer, but because he wants the game to be absolutely perfect, he's constantly throwing stuff out and redoing stuff. Planned release date is "when it's finished, hopefully by winter of next year".

There is a possibility of a PC release. I didn't ask about other systems, but I will see him again in a few days, so I'll ask about those then if I don't forget.

At this time, he asks me if I have played the demo yet or not, and I hadn't, so he brought me over to play the demo and he showed me the controls and then I played it.

It's fucking awesome. It's incredibly smooth and satisfying! I don't mean just the framerate, either; even at max speed, the player ship movement is so damn smooth that it might have the best damn controls in any STG I have ever played. Oh, and the crappy framerate in the PV? Yeah, no. Absolutely perfect framerate through the entire demo. Not a single issue at all.

Speaking of the demo, it was way harder than I expected! Enemies had revenge bullets and they were fast! Shoot a bunch of enemies and you get a MASSIVE wall of shit coming at you as if it was a bullet hell game.

Around this time, Joe magically showed up and played it right next to me. I finished the demo as he started, so here he is playing Tatsujin Extreme for the first time.

Spoiler

Later, I asked a few important questions. A few of us were wondering about the respawns. This game does not have instant respawns. It has checkpoints! This instant respawn build is just for TGS. Yuge-san said that Tatsujin = checkpoints. The final game will be a real Tatsujin game, so yes, you know what's coming. It's going to be awesome.

One more cool thing I got from him: I asked about using the Tatsujin Ou ship. He said that isn't planned at this time, but there will be an entirely new ship with a new design and completely different weapons. Didn't get any details, but I mentioned that it would be cool to have all 3 ships playable, so who knows what will happen.

Finally, I asked him how he felt about revealing his new game to so many people today, considering that it's been ~29.5 years since Toaplan died and 35 years since the original Tatsujin. He said that it's really great to have people play this new game, and that it is because of all of the support that he has gotten over the years between then and now that he was able to start developing this new game.

[mycophobia]

that is indeed some good news, thanks for the report

[Steven]

Yeah sure, no problem. I just now realized that I forgot some stuff, so here is round 2 of information.

First, the graphics look much better than they do in the PV on Youtube. They are bright and colorful and everything looks good. Not excellent, but good, and extremely comparable to R-Type Final 3 Evolved. I am satisfied with how the game looks now and I understand why they went with 3D. Everything is highly readable and the enemies all look nice and chunky, just like they should in a Tatsujin game. Now that I've actually played it, I have absolutely no problems with the graphics. I actually rather... like the graphics. I know someone won't like the graphics, but I think it looks fine.

Once you kill enemies, they drop... purple orbs (?) or whatever. I didn't really pay attention to them, but these are score items. They are attracted to your ship once you get close enough, but it is possible to miss them, so you will have to actually go get close enough to attract them to your ship. Not sure exactly how they work. I think Yuge-san about a scoring system beyond just killing stuff and getting extra powerups, but I don't remember, and it might just be the purple shit. I'd have to ask him again.

Yuge-san wanted to implement a story told through comics. Obviously, it had to be Joker Jun, so he's here. We all know him and we know how awesome he is, so it's going to be great. The goal was to make sure that the story and comics don't interfere with the gameplay, so they are making sure that the implementation is perfect. This is actually a game mode ("Comic Mode", apparently), so if you don't want the comics, there is also a game mode that does not have them at all.

The bomb seems to affect the entire screen instead of just the area around your ship. There were lots of bombs to pick up, too, so yes, bombs are, once again, and as Toaplan always intended, a secondary weapon, not something to avoid using. At a few points there were 3 or 4 of them on the screen at once, so yeah, get them and use them to blow up all of the stuff, just as intended.

The angle on the default starting 3-way shot is closer to Same! Same! Same!'s more spread-out 3-way shot than the more concentrated 3-way shot in the original Tatsujin.

The color-coded item containers seem to be back. Never had the correct weapon to break them, but they seem to be here. Not entirely sure, but I'm pretty sure that they are back.

Finally, the logo was made by Hayashi Miho.