Tatsujin Extreme

[xxx1993]

Oh wow, Truxton really is making a comeback...

[Angry Hina]

I'm not dissappointed. High Res 2D is extremely expensive and I am in terms of STG's a bit in the PS2 era where everyone wanted to see their IP in 3D to see how the world of these games "really" looks.... well at least I am for the Tatsujin series^^ (and its clearly above Deathsmiles II )

I think its awesome how close it is to Tatsujin 1 in nearly every aspect. Of course it would be much better if the classic Alien-Tatsujin-graphic style of Tatsujin, Zero Wing, Out Zone or Vimana would be more present here, but it looks as I expected a new STG in 3D of a very tiny teamwould look like. It was clear, that it would be below R-Type Final 2 standards because of the bigger name (higher estimated selling rate) of R-Type and the much more 3D-experienced Team of Granzella.

[pablumatic]

My expectations for modern 3D sequels to retro shooter franchises are pretty low. This looks better than Raiden V and Dariusburst and I think that's about as good as it gets from Japanese shooter devs these days. At least it doesn't look like Sol Cresta.

[Udderdude]

Like: The explosions look pretty good. Looks challenging.
Dislike: Widescreen vertizontal lol. Some enemies seem like they have too much health.

[xxx1993]

My expectations for modern 3D sequels to retro shooter franchises are pretty low. This looks better than Raiden V and Dariusburst and I think that's about as good as it gets from Japanese shooter devs these days. At least it doesn't look like Sol Cresta.

Come on, Raiden V, Dariusburst, and Sol Cresta were great games...

[FunktionJCB]

Come on, Raiden V, Dariusburst, and Sol Cresta were great games...

Somewhere along the line, it seems it became fashionable to dump on Sol Cresta, and even Dariusburst for some reason, but both games are a blast to play (Raiden V I would rate a bit lower).

I get that people didn't like the price tag on Sol Cresta, and the visuals were not to everyone's liking, but when you have a game as fun as that one, doing some creative things (mixing both classic and modern gameplay mechanics), and with such a kickass Yuzo Koshiro soundtrack, I really don't get all the "hate" for it. I bought it at launch, played it several times, and the last thing on my mind when playing it was "the visuals could be better". Some of the visual style doesn't translate well to screenshots, but I thought it was fine in motion.

And Dariusburst CS is such a love letter to the series, and has such amount of content, I really don't understand the cynicism some have for it.
The visuals are fine, and sue me, but every time the much hated track Freedom comes up, I'm bobbing my head (and sometimes awkwardly singing it) while shooting everything that moves on the screen.

[xxx1993]

Sol Cresta is currently my personal favorite shmup now. I play it almost every day.

[pablumatic]

Come on, Raiden V, Dariusburst, and Sol Cresta were great games...

Of all those I think Dariusburst plays the best. I'm just talking about graphics here. Sol Cresta looks rough to me. Dariusburst games maintain their mostly PSP origin graphics, and Raiden V looks like a higher res PS2 title. R-Type Final 2 held up better upon its release and this latest Truxton looks to be in that same region of visual fidelity.

[Steven]

Found big versions of posters

[Sumez]

Looks more colorful in those graphics at least. And I like the close-ups of the enemy ships, feels very Tatsujin in nature - an impression I didn't get from the trailer.

I'm not dissappointed. High Res 2D is extremely expensive

High quality 3D is also very expensive, and comes with a bunch of additional challenges. It's already been noted that this game seems to perform poorly, and (supposedly) on a PS5 at that? That's a little ridiculous, but if you are making your 3D game without knowing much about 3D programming, such issues definitely *can* bite you in the butt.

I think the "2D is expensive" rumor needs to be put to rest. Not every game needs to be animated like King of Fighters XIII. Especially when most of your enemies are spaceships.

[bcass]

The 2D doesn't need to be high res either. The original Tatsujin games look great on large screens with judiciously selected scanline filters. These new 3D graphics look poor compared to the beautiful pixel art in the original games.

[xxx1993]

Come on, Raiden V, Dariusburst, and Sol Cresta were great games...

Of all those I think Dariusburst plays the best. I'm just talking about graphics here. Sol Cresta looks rough to me. Dariusburst games maintain their mostly PSP origin graphics, and Raiden V looks like a higher res PS2 title. R-Type Final 2 held up better upon its release and this latest Truxton looks to be in that same region of visual fidelity.

Never mind the pixelated graphics. Sol Cresta is still a blast to play.

[Angry Hina]

The 2D doesn't need to be high res either. The original Tatsujin games look great on large screens with judiciously selected scanline filters. These new 3D graphics look poor compared to the beautiful pixel art in the original games.

Iam pretty sure, they didn't wanted to make a game that looks like the original... and I think most will argue against it with "eeh it looks just exactly like in 88" and wont mean it in a positive way.

I'm not dissappointed. High Res 2D is extremely expensive

High quality 3D is also very expensive, and comes with a bunch of additional challenges. It's already been noted that this game seems to perform poorly, and (supposedly) on a PS5 at that? That's a little ridiculous, but if you are making your 3D game without knowing much about 3D programming, such issues definitely *can* bite you in the butt.

I think the "2D is expensive" rumor needs to be put to rest. Not every game needs to be animated like King of Fighters XIII. Especially when most of your enemies are spaceships.

Thats why there are so many handdrawn 2D games around? Of course a 3D-game doesnt program itself alone but I guess something must be very appealing to the developers if so many of them decide against high res hand drawn.

But yes, it doesnt have to be that good animated like XIII but people would expect damaged sprites of the bigger enemies, beautiful explosions modern looking "lighting"- effects, more than one parallax layers and a lot of different enemies. It should not be an STG-KoF XIII but it should be at least on Caves level and we dont see games like that very often.

[bcass]

Iam pretty sure, they didn't wanted to make a game that looks like the original... and I think most will argue against it with "eeh it looks just exactly like in 88" and wont mean it in a positive way.

I don't think anyone believes this. It's clear from the mediocre 3D work in Extreme that this was done on the cheap, and that is the only reason why it looks the way it does. There's also clearly an abundance of 3D artists in the industry today compared to those with sprite drawing skills. It's a shame to see those skill dying off, but given how horribly generic most games look these days, I would not be surprised to see a resurgence in the future, and it's already kind of happened in the indie space.

[Angry Hina]

I would not be that happy with the 88er look. At least the one of 92/93 should be in reach but.

I also think 3D-assets are a big thing and there are more engines at hand wich can do a lot of work for you. You are definitely right with the lack of skilled 2d artists. So its not just that Tatsujin wanted a 3D game because of the astetics alone.

[bcass]

Yes, I would prefer the style of Tatsujin Ou too. The sprite work in that game is amongst the very best ever as far as the STG genre is concerned.

[Steven]

I've seen fools that literally will not buy modern games that use pixel art specifically because they use pixel art. It's ridiculous, but consumers are stupid, so there isn't much you can really do about it.

[Angry Hina]

Whow, thats an opinion o.O

I like more modern work eben a bit more. Like Daioujou, Futari or Akai Katana but they miss some of the little sprite details older games have shown. Raiden II is one example

[AGermanArtist]

Maybe they were trying to avoid looking like a typical Indie game. I know I'm sick to the back teeth of pixel art 16 bit homage Indie games.

[BurlyHeart]

I've seen fools that literally will not buy modern games that use pixel art specifically because they use pixel art. It's ridiculous, but consumers are stupid, so there isn't much you can really do about it.

I was teaching an English class about the history of animation....there was resounding opinion from the kids (and my co=teacher) in favor of 3D over hand-drawn 2D or clay animation.
Made me kinda sad, but that's what the youth like these days. It's what they are growing up with and they have memories attached to that style.

[bcass]

I very much doubt young kids, or anyone under the age of 30, are the target demographic for Tatsujin Extreme, regardless of graphics style. The core market for these releases is clearly those people who played and remember the original games.

[qmish]

I've seen fools that literally will not buy modern games that use pixel art specifically because they use pixel art. It's ridiculous, but consumers are stupid, so there isn't much you can really do about it.

Not better than freaks who refuse play the game cause it's 3d

[Angry Hina]

I very much doubt young kids, or anyone under the age of 30, are the target demographic for Tatsujin Extreme, regardless of graphics style. The core market for these releases is clearly those people who played and remember the original games.

At Cave there was everytime the hope to pull arcade games out of the niche and I think most developers hope that their game good accidently go viral or something and gets the atention of many and break these niche barrier.

[Steven]

I've seen fools that literally will not buy modern games that use pixel art specifically because they use pixel art. It's ridiculous, but consumers are stupid, so there isn't much you can really do about it.

I was teaching an English class about the history of animation....there was resounding opinion from the kids (and my co=teacher) in favor of 3D over hand-drawn 2D or clay animation.
Made me kinda sad, but that's what the youth like these days. It's what they are growing up with and they have memories attached to that style.

It's really sad because Tatsujin Ou looks way better than Extreme does. Of course, Tatsujin Ou looks better than pretty much everything that isn't Dogyuun!!, Battle Garegga, or Kaitei Daisensou.

I've seen fools that literally will not buy modern games that use pixel art specifically because they use pixel art. It's ridiculous, but consumers are stupid, so there isn't much you can really do about it.

Not better than freaks who refuse play the game cause it's 3d

If anything, I think the main reason that nobody is going to play it is because it's currently PS5-exclusive.

Speaking of that, it does look like it is planned to release on other systems, but they just haven't announced them yet, as it does specifically say 対応機種：PlayStation(R)5、その他未定 on the official website, so it's almost certain to be on some other system.

[bcass]

The game being 3D isn't what will put most people off playing it. The fact that it is poorly realised, horribly generic low-effort 3D will be the bigger issue.

[MJR]

I think there are still quite a lot of young people who like pixel art. It isn't black and white issue saying that "I only buy 3D / 2D and everything else sucks!!1"

It's more of a question if the pixel art or 3D art is done well. Also the engine used may affect the outcome.

As for Tatsujin extreme / performance. If they use Unreal Engine, like it was used with R-type Final 2, then it shouldn't be a coding issue, unless you make it all with blueprints and have no clue what you are doing. However, many other factors affect performance, like if the 3D models are clean, how uv mapping is applied, size of the texture maps, lighting, shaders, general architecture of everything.. there are million ways to do 3D game badly so that the performance will suck.

The models of Tatsujin extreme look fine, the lighting does not. With 3D, 80% of the look comes from how the models are lit. And more sophisticated lighting can bring performance down. I think we are either looking at very rough early version, OR they are just simply not used to develop things on 3D yet. And I didn't even touch things like PBR - or the lack of it.

[bcass]

Yeah the "kids don't like pixel art" thing doesn't resonate with me at all. I regularly visit Europe's biggest arcade, and it is always mostly full of kids (teenagers and under) who are playing arcade games made in the 80s and 90s.

[Steven]

I tend to agree. I think it's mostly the older people that hate pixels, not the younger kids.

I also agree that the lighting is what makes Tatsujin Extreme look... decidedly less attractive than it could look.

[mycophobia]

i wish they had gone in a new direction like with ou. wanted to see even weirder takes on the r/g/b weapon scheme

[Steven]

Speaking of the different weapons in Tatsujin Ou, I really hope that the ship from that game is playable here.