Amazed at console shmup prices!

[dmk1198]

Lockdown has seen a surge!
Please list high ones you've seen
Saw this on racketboy

JAPANESE XBOX 360 EXCLUSIVES OF VALUE

I will expand this section before too long.  These are all Shmups / 2D shooters — many of which are region-free.  I’ll plan on doing a full shmups guide before too long too.  Good stuff.

Muchi Muchi Pork! / Pink Sweets: $180-$300 (eBay)

Sakura Flamingo Archives: $180-$280 (eBay)

Under Defeat HD: $159-$170 (eBay)

Dodonpachi (5): SaiDaiOuJou: $130-$190 (eBay)

Shooting 10th Anniversary : $120-$165 (eBay)

Ginga Force: $90 -$170 (eBay)

Radirgy NOA Massive: $80-$160 (eBay)



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[dmk1198]

Stanley Kubrick was fascinated with films that took over £100m at box office
I think I relook at games that are worth serious money & want to play them for some reason lol
The X emulation guys did me a great 360 with all the rare Jap shmups so I'm very happy , great to play em
( If not allowed to mention please delete)


https://www.racketboy.com/retro/the-rar ... -360-games

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[dmk1198]

Wow some neo Geo ones super pricey to, guess we don't wanna go there with pcb prices either

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[Bassa-Bassa]

Even if it's a non finished work, posting a list like that and skipping NTSC-J Raiden Fighters Aces makes you wonder about the author.

[Sengoku Strider]

Neo Geo AES is the undisputed king of absurd game prices, as long as you're not counting the graded NES game scam. Neo Turf Masters is worth like $16 000, Metal Slug is listed on Surugaya (who generally aren't unfair on pricing) at $13 000. There are several games in the $2 000 - $5 000 range. It's why I settled for a $300 JP MVS conversion of Pulstar rather than shelling out the $2300 for the JP AES release.

Setting that outlier aside, I mainly collect Japanese releases, and where I've seen the worst jumps the past 18 months have been the Mega Drive. I somehow lucked out with a $170 copy of Musha Aleste, but you can expect to pay $300 for it easily. Gley Lancer was always pricey, but it's gone from the $250-300 range to $450. Eliminate Down was ~$900, now it's up to $1600. A lot of titles in various genres that were $50-$80 last year have jumped over the $100 line, and titles like The Super Shinobi II (Shinobi III) and Ex Ranza (Ranger X) have more than doubled to around $200. Vampire Killer (Castlevania Bloodlines) shot up from ~$350 to $600 after some fierce auction battles.

The Saturn has fluctuated - a lot of stuff has remained reasonably affordable, only bumping $20-30 - Dodonpachi, Strikers I & II, Gunbird, Layer Section, Darius Gaiden, Salamander etc. Some already expensive stuff has really shot up though, Cotton Boomerang went from $300-$450, I think Cotton 2 is in the same boat. Steam Hearts is over $300. Elevator Action Returns has gone from $150 to $300. Hyper Duel, which I'd love to own, has gone from $450 to $600. Radiant Silvergun seems to fluctuate wildly every time I see it, between $250-$350.

Anyway, as much as this presents a barrier to ownership for fans, mercifully many of these titles are now available digitally for $10 or less. But what it tells me is that collecting shmups is a good hobby to be in, and buying digital at more than budget prices is a huge mistake unless your budget just doesn't allow for physical. Yeah, you might pay a lot, but the value seems to increases by as much of a percentage as any asset you can buy. I've somehow wound up with $13000 in games from spending $5000 over the past couple of years, and I'd bet many of you here are way past that if you add up everything. Who knows what that will hit 20-30 years down the line, assuming there still a functioning capitalist civilization?

[dmk1198]

Good point
I invest in stocks n shares yet your games made better investment
My dad's wine purchases from 70's now up 1000% to!

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[Jeneki]

Funny thing about Muchi / Sweets, after selling out it was going for ~120. Then it got a best hits reissue and anyone could buy it at 40 for a few months. And then the millisecond the last one fell off Amazon, it was 120 again.

[pablumatic]

Every time I glance at retro game prices now of any genre it boggles my mind at just how much they've gone up since COVID started. It has basically ended most of my collecting. At least I got a somewhat respectable collection before it all went down.

[Sima Tuna]

Every time I glance at retro game prices now of any genre it boggles my mind at just how much they've gone up since COVID started. It has basically ended most of my collecting. At least I got a somewhat respectable collection before it all went down.

I don't collect but I do buy a lot of games to play. I was shocked at the increase in the value of my games after lockdown began. Games I paid $30 or less six months before lockdown are worth $100+ now.

It's great for me though, since I'll probably start selling a lot of the ones I'm done with. And I'm not even talking about "retro" retro games. More like 3ds and ds era.

I think the way collecting has taken off in popularity even before lockdown basically ensures retro games will never be affordable again. Fortunately emulation still exists for people who want to play old games.

[dmk1198]

Yes I'm big fan of emulation, I just love playing the ol' games
It's gotta be us old fucks surely paying this money? Youngsters surely don't care? Although one of my son's is into his expensive Japanese anime imports etc the rest of his brothers with streaming & digital games etc have no interest in physical

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[neorichieb1971]

I still buy original games. Although my shmups wants are on the Super Famicom.

I've actually gone my whole collecting career (If that's what you want to call it) totally ignoring the Xbox consoles and the Wii (U) consoles.

Its simply a case of wanting my gear out to play and I can't even achieve that with what I have. The Switch is my choice of current gen gaming and I doubt I will buy a PS5 or any future gen console. I am just too old to be taught new tricks. Next month I hit 50 years old and my collecting hobby is one of wanting the things I could have bought as a teenager if I had the money, knowledge of gaming of the time and the fact that I want to spend money on things that hold their value. If I buy a $400 shmup today, its obviously done its round of losing its value, then shot up and unless re-releases happen, it does hold a risk valuation. But then, buying something old poses less risk than buying something new.

[Astro City II]

Where are you seeing Sakura Flamingo Archives for $180? It's about $450+ now.

Really peeved I didn't pick it up when it was new.

[jehu]

Where are you seeing Sakura Flamingo Archives for $180? It's about $450+ now.

Really peeved I didn't pick it up when it was new.

Did they ever release a patch to fix Sakura’s technical issues? If memory serves there was something weird with the load times and the audio balance was way off.

I’m more just curious if people are willing to drop almost 500 for jank versions of these games. It would speak to the weirdness around today’s collectors’ market, anyway.

[Sengoku Strider]

Yes I'm big fan of emulation, I just love playing the ol' games
It's gotta be us old fucks surely paying this money? Youngsters surely don't care? Although one of my son's is into his expensive Japanese anime imports etc the rest of his brothers with streaming & digital games etc have no interest in physical

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Millennials grew up & started sending Gamecube prices up. And the rise in retro prices will naturally draw in speculators of all ages, just like it did with sports cards and comics and toys. I still see plenty of younger youtubers with walls of games behind them. But sure, lots of kids will have grown up with Minecraft & Fortnite & Roblox on PC and have no connection to physical games.

[MathU]

Speculation (on any variety of things) always tends to go up during times of economic crisis. When people are unable to obtain living wages from productive labor, they will often turn to gambling in desperation. Many physical game "collectors" are in the long run speculating on the idea that some time in the future they'll be able to sell off the thing they paid for to someone else for more money than they initially paid for it. But what they all need to understand is that speculation is a zero-sum game: one person's gain always comes at another's loss. And it's usually not the small-time speculators that come out on top. Instead, it's the already-wealthy individuals with the resources to corner the market on a given speculative commodity that tend to win big at everyone else's expense.

I think at this point it's wiser to invest in a good controller-interface setup that can nicely replicate the original console game experience on a computer through emulation. Leave these vultures to their own sick gambling hobby.

[Jeneki]

Did they ever release a patch to fix Sakura’s technical issues? If memory serves there was something weird with the load times and the audio balance was way off.

Checking out my copy, I don't believe this was ever patched. The Wii releases are probably better from a audio standpoint (and if you want tate). Still playable though, if someone doesn't mind those issues.

[Gamer707b]

F the crazy retro game prices. Glad I bought most of what I want years ago. Don't buy retro now, unless it's something that I REALLY want. Plus many good, old school games are getting releases on the newer stuff. One of the games I always wanted was Battle Garegga on Saturn, but once I got the PS4 game, the Saturn version became obsolete for me. Last retro I got was R T-ype Delta on PS1. I bit the bullet on that one, but I don't get hardly any new games so it's all good.

There's only a few retro games I'd like to still get so yea. And I'm not anal anymore about owning "the real thing". Wanted Alien Soldier on Mega Drive for years but said "hell no" to the prices, Got it on my Switch as a physical as part of the Genesis collection. More than good enough for me. Retro used to be fun but the crazy prices ruin it for me. Love when there's a better, modern version for a classic. It's like a big F U to the scalpers.

[BrianC]

JAPANESE XBOX 360 EXCLUSIVES OF VALUE

Under Defeat HD: $159-$170 (eBay)

wow. Catching up to the DC version (which I actually bought recently).

[DMC]

Which console has shown the smallest increase in shmup prices?

The SMS still has reasonable prices in general and boxes are usually in good shape, but alas it has relatively few good shooters (and I missed out on the pre-order of Flight of Pigarus).
PSX prices are maybe still okay?

[Sengoku Strider]

Speculation (on any variety of things) always tends to go up during times of economic crisis. When people are unable to obtain living wages from productive labor, they will often turn to gambling in desperation. Many physical game "collectors" are in the long run speculating on the idea that some time in the future they'll be able to sell off the thing they paid for to someone else for more money than they initially paid for it. But what they all need to understand is that speculation is a zero-sum game: one person's gain always comes at another's loss. And it's usually not the small-time speculators that come out on top. Instead, it's the already-wealthy individuals with the resources to corner the market on a given speculative commodity that tend to win big at everyone else's expense.

I think at this point it's wiser to invest in a good controller-interface setup that can nicely replicate the original console game experience on a computer through emulation. Leave these vultures to their own sick gambling hobby.

But that's just it - it isn't really that much of gamble for the people reading this thread. We all know which genres & platforms have consistently held their values or gone up over the decades. And one of those genres is one everyone here knows inside & out. You don't have to be some kind of market fixer to realize a whole generation of kids will grow up with memories of the Switch as the dominant console of their childhood, one that got them through a dark era in their lives. You don't need to guess about the fact that Nintendo fans are clearly more invested in the brand identity than those of other platforms. Buying low print run games on Switch, and buying in genres appreciated by hardcore gamers, isn't that much of a hail mary.

Just buying all the shmups or rpgs you would have normally bought on Switch in physical form pretty much guarantees you'll hit on some big value items, some are already getting there (Xenoblade Chronicles 2: Torna The Golden Country would probably be a good thing to jump on). Most of the physical shmup releases you see are between 1000-2500 units. I can quite confidently guarantee that:

1) Those copies won't all survive, getting lost in moves, basement/garage floods, thrown out by uncomprehending relatives, etc.
2) Many of those which do survive won't end up on the resale market.
3) There will be more than 2500 Nintendo collectors worldwide squabbling over these things.

What I can't do is tell you if some random Hello Kitty game nobody's thinking about will turn out to be rare and sought after. Or which current day genres will grow into sought after nostalgia items for the future's adults. Or if a low print run indie game or its sequel becomes a hit down the line and rockets in value. That's where you get into the corner of collecting that's particularly unknown.

Yeah, the big elephant in all of that is whether people will still care about shmups. But if anything, they're more prolific than they've ever been. None of them are top sellers like back in the day, but the Switch already has the largest shmup library for a console ever. And frankly, with a generation of kids & young adults growing up with the implicit message "chug adderall or fall into the economic abyss," I'm not sure that's accidental.

[BrianC]

I noticed some US DC games went up in price. Games like Virtua Fighter 3 and Dynamite Cop that used to be bargain bin titles.

[neorichieb1971]

Collecting original hardware and games is not just about market speculation. Most people later on in life have spare bedrooms, basements and attic spaces sitting there doing nothing. Some folk just want to see their money turn into "something". Money on its own is very boring, its what you're able to convert it into.

Not just recently, but since the invention of the internet, people are seeing what others are doing and copying the formula. Most people who buy these games don't even play them. As someone who currently juggling current gen and retro collecting at the same time I can tell you that anyone that is purchasing more than 10 games a month has noway of ever putting a decent amount of time into 5% of them.

As for investment, look at this forum!!!! People spending $1000's of their hard earned cash on making a SNES display sharper pixels like a 1 chip console, or putting a HDMI converter into an N64. In 10 years time you'll be able to play all those games on hardware that will be play them in 1080p/4k native. I find that particular market a little more harder to understand.

What it comes down to in the end, if you have $50k in the bank and you're set up with a mortgage paid and cars, holidays and swimming pools don't take your fancy, buy retro videogames

[davyK]

I got most of what I own (Saturn, Dreamcast) in the late 90s-early 00s before things went mad. My SNES/SFC collection was mainly games I bought when they were contemporary. My N64 collection was contemporary too but I've sold most of the PAL games I had to fund buying J-NTSC versions of my favourites and a few JP-exclusives like Sin & Punishment and Bangai-O.

I was lucky to get a 360 just before the mad shmup price increase and have the platinum releases of the region free games as well as those games that got PAL releases. No way I'd pay prices now. My collecting has become curating now to be honest. I'm trying to pick up whatever physical games I can get for Switch but that's it. I was also able to pick up the better (60Hz) PAL PS2 shmups just before things went mad. I've been fortunate.

If I really want to play something I can't get I'll go for emulation or Steam but I'm quite satisfied with my physical collection to be honest. Digital does at least let me try something so I can make a better decision if I do want to pay for a physical release. I would like to own a few more MD games though.

J-PS2 still has one or two games that haven't gone totally whack - DDP-DOJ and Espgaluda are good ports that are still reasonable. I got Castle Shikigami 1&2 and Fantasy Zone for J-PS2 as well without breaking that bank and J-PS1 games like Raiden Dx are still affordable.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Which console has shown the smallest increase in shmup prices?

The SMS still has reasonable prices in general and boxes are usually in good shape, but alas it has relatively few good shooters (and I missed out on the pre-order of Flight of Pigarus).
PSX prices are maybe still okay?

I dunno, the two Power Strikes have been steadily climbing and are pretty much the only noteworthy examples of the genre on the system (I mean yeah there's R-Type but that's available on almost literally everything ever). It'd probably take a western Aleste collection release to bring them down a bit. But yeah apart from those either they're not great or just too obscure for people to care about (did anyone even play Scramble Spirits at the arcade?) - and usually made in large enough numbers for rarity to not be a factor.

However it's those niche genre fans who probably push the prices. RPGs have a mention in this thread and prices for both Golden Axe Warrior and Phantasy Star are pretty eye-watering these days - despite both being on the PS360 Mega Drive collection as bonus games.

It is still a relatively unknown console, I suspect due to the US-centric retro gaming narrative, so there's fewer hardcore collectors fighting over more common titles to drive the prices up too far. But same as any other console, get a good game in a niche genre with a solid fanbase and expect it to steadily get more expensive.

[davyK]

Yeah - it isn't just shmups. The Mystical Ninja games on SNES/N64 are getting pricy - esp. complete in box. Castlevania games are desirable too and the Saturn version of Bomberman can be expensive but it can vary across regions quite a bit.

[Sengoku Strider]

As someone who currently juggling current gen and retro collecting at the same time I can tell you that anyone that is purchasing more than 10 games a month has noway of ever putting a decent amount of time into 5% of them.

I mean, presuming they have a job, anyone buying 3-4 games a month is going to be pressed to get through them, especially stuff from the last 10-15 years where games started to get absurdly long.

[neorichieb1971]

I find that Konami retro is very very expensive no matter where in the world you're buying. Lets look at the franchises -

Twinbee - Quite cheap comparitively speaking
Axelay - One game, but it isn't cheap
Gradius - NES/SNES/SFC - All climing
Castlevania - Always through the roof, maybe the n64 iterations are quite cheap, I would never buy them though
Silent hill - Through the roof for the most part
Metal Gear Solid - Still reasonable
Batman - Climbing, some SNES iterations are really expensive
Sparkster - Climbing
TMNT - Very expensive
Mystical Ninja - Goeman - Climbing.

I bought Konami as a matter of priority back in the 2000's and 2010's.

Then you have Capcom games, very sought after, just as many franchises. Globally accepted as the go to collectors items.

Natsume games are always expensive, but as stated on this very forum, are getting remakes as time goes on.

One area I am seeing my collection become slightly meaningless is the Gamecube.

The Switch is got remakes of Super Monkey Ball's, I bought all my Prince of Persias on Gamecube, now being remade on the PS4. Most Resident evil games on the console have moved elsewhere and got better versions. Nintendo themselves have taken the Mario games and remade them on the Switch. Namco made the MR driller world game on the Switch and I got a physical copy from Play asia in English.

Besides my previous post about collecting. One area that makes people collect old games is packaging. The artwork of the time is undeniably charming and are period pieces. Just like Vinyl, Laserdisc and many other old formats, game collecting especially "complete in box" has a pull factor of x3 because the art and design of the period will never be replicated. Yes you can buy remakes, emulate, get digital downloads etc, but you cannot replicate a cardboard box with artwork, or a clamshell with artwork on it. Just like old music, you listen because it makes you feel younger than you are, time stays still at that moment. Videogames have that factor as well.

Of course all this pales in comparison to PCB's, where zero artwork is often offered and the games creep into the 1000's of dollars. I stopped buying PCB's about 10 years ago. What I have is all I will ever have.

[BrianC]

One area I am seeing my collection become slightly meaningless is the Gamecube.

The Switch is got remakes of Super Monkey Ball's, I bought all my Prince of Persias on Gamecube, now being remade on the PS4. Most Resident evil games on the console have moved elsewhere and got better versions. Nintendo themselves have taken the Mario games and remade them on the Switch. Namco made the MR driller world game on the Switch and I got a physical copy from Play asia in English.

I disagree on Super Monkey Ball. The latest game is remade in Unity and doesn't get the camera or physics right. The WiiU Marios were released on switch (don't really think of them as full blown remakes), but Sunshine is just an emulation, and only one of the Wii Marios made it (Galaxy, which is part emulation, part port, not a remake). AFAIK, Prince of Persia Sands of Time wasn't a native GCN port and, may not have even been the definitive version of the game.

[Sima Tuna]

I think it's a fairly safe bet that any physical switch games you buy for $30 or less will be worth a great deal more in a handful of years. Assuming the game isn't absolutely horrible. But if I were rich, the last thing I would spend my money on is physical game collecting. Gaming for me was always a hobby for poors. I would game because I didn't have money to go anywhere or do anything. I would buy old discount games used or emulate and play that way. So I guess I don't associate old video games with "premium," "luxury" or an "investment."

I mean, certain genres are quite reliable in terms of increasing their value. Shmups, rpgs, certain mainstream titles with low print runs. But a lot of this LRG stuff feels like bait to me. They charge more than what they should for games that might be completely awful or, at best, mediocre.

And sometimes, even when you think you've purchased a game for the right price, you might be surprised to see it lose value. I paid more for Nocturne when I was 12 than you would pay for it now. Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2 as well. Back when I was a kid, I could never have imagined any Shin Megami Tensei game getting a second printing. Persona 3 either wasn't out yet or was barely out at the time I was playing SMT 3 and DDS. Even when Persona was popular during the ps2 years, that didn't translate into any popularity for SMT. It took a lot of things happening all at once for SMT games to see a reprint. I could never have imagined an SMT V coming out for a mainstream, popular console and attracting any sort of mainstream appeal. SMT IV showing up on 3ds was shocking enough, and pretty much the sole reason for my purchase of that console (along with monster hunter.)

So I guess what I'm saying (rambling) is that you can make the best guess possible about what will hold its value, but you never know. I have an original ps2 copy of mgs3 subsistence (pre-reprint) too. Last time I checked, it wasn't worth anything. Honestly though, I am happy when old games I love get reprinted. It means that maybe more people will play those games and they'll get sucked in like I did. Maybe somebody will play the psn, switch or ps2 reprint version of Nocturne and it will become their favorite game. Gaming to me is all about sharing cool games and having fun. The only exclusivity I want to see in gaming is along difficulty lines.

[Spacemonkey]

There's also this;

https://youtu.be/rvLFEh7V18A

I know this post is about shmups, but I can see it affecting all games.