Some used TV that have low 480i lag + very good upscaling

[xeos]

In the category of they don't make them like they used to, I've been testing 480i upscaling, deinterlacing, and input lag on TVs and found a cluster that is pretty good from the early 2010s. Not as good as a CRT, nor as good as a brand new gamer TV + high end deinterlacer or OSSC, but good enough and way cheaper. Thought I'd share. My most recent review of a TV from this cluster lists the other members at the bottom:

https://alantechreview.blogspot.com/202 ... t-lag.html

The cluster is made by Samsung which also makes some turds from the same or slightly later era so don't buy any old Samsung and expect good results.

Best non CRT option remains plasma, but only those made by Panasonic, and those are getting hard to find. And the Panasonic plasma's don't upscale or deinterlace as nice as these slightly slower Samsung's.

Of course an OSSC + a high end modern TV will give you the best input lag, but with less nice deinterlacing. You have to pick your priorities, including price

[kitty666cats]

This makes me feel even *more* lucky about the 1080p Panasonic Viera Plasma I picked up (for free, via Facebook Marketplace... under 2 miles from my house!) the other month. Not that I am going to be feeding it 480i often, but every time I see people talk about how good they are *I* feel good, lol.

https://www.cnet.com/reviews/panasonic- ... 5u-review/

^ that is the model I own

[xeos]

This makes me feel even *more* lucky about the 1080p Panasonic Viera Plasma I picked up (for free, via Facebook Marketplace... under 2 miles from my house!) the other month. Not that I am going to be feeding it 480i often, but every time I see people talk about how good they are *I* feel good, lol.

https://www.cnet.com/reviews/panasonic- ... 5u-review/

^ that is the model I own

have you done much testing with it? The two panasonic's I tested were both a bit older than that model. The review you linked too actually didn't say the most positive things about 480i content, not that they are looking at the kinds of video game imagery you and I are likely to care about.

[kitty666cats]

This makes me feel even *more* lucky about the 1080p Panasonic Viera Plasma I picked up (for free, via Facebook Marketplace... under 2 miles from my house!) the other month. Not that I am going to be feeding it 480i often, but every time I see people talk about how good they are *I* feel good, lol.

https://www.cnet.com/reviews/panasonic- ... 5u-review/

^ that is the model I own

have you done much testing with it? The two panasonic's I tested were both a bit older than that model. The review you linked too actually didn't say the most positive things about 480i content, not that they are looking at the kinds of video game imagery you and I are likely to care about.

No, I haven't really messed with 15kHz inputs... I just meant I feel lucky to have scored a pretty well-regarded one RE: black levels. I wanna see a Kuro IRL and see if those are really all they are cracked-up to be, I am so so happy with mine as it is heh

[Josh128]

The Panasonic TC-P50-X60 I used to own had awesome 480i bob deinterlacing. Very clear and authentic 15kHz CRT like. Wasnt able to do any lag testing though. I know the Panasonic S60 series was the highest rated plasma for input lag for years, but I have seen conflicting numbers. RTings has it at 29ms, CNET has it at 34ms using a Bodnar tester. For comparison, the 2013 Samsung F4500/F5300 series have a rolling lag of 37-45ms and the 2014 models were upgraded to have a locked 37ms input lag.

Note that all the numbers mentioned above were likely tested with 480p/1080p and NOT 480i, which generally exhibits higher lag on most sets than progressive inputs. If you are really worried about 480i processing and lag, your best bet is to get an OSSC or GBS-C+ VGA to HDMI transcoder and NOT rely on the televisions handling, as they are all sub par in comparison.

[xeos]

The Panasonic TC-P50-X60 I used to own had awesome 480i bob deinterlacing. Very clear and authentic 15kHz CRT like. Wasnt able to do any lag testing though. I know the Panasonic S60 series was the highest rated plasma for input lag for years, but I have seen conflicting numbers. RTings has it at 29ms, CNET has it at 34ms using a Bodnar tester. For comparison, the 2013 Samsung F4500/F5300 series have a rolling lag of 37-45ms and the 2014 models were upgraded to have a locked 37ms input lag.

Note that all the numbers mentioned above were likely tested with 480p/1080p and NOT 480i, which generally exhibits higher lag on most sets than progressive inputs. If you are really worried about 480i processing and lag, your best bet is to get an OSSC or GBS-C+ VGA to HDMI transcoder and NOT rely on the televisions handling, as they are all sub par in comparison.

if it truly had bob deinterlacing then the lag "should be" identical. My tests with an older era panasonic plasma show identical lag for 480i and 480p:

https://alantechreview.blogspot.com/202 ... g-and.html

difference between rting and bodnar tester is almost certainly where they set the threshold, see my link above; the raw light values are a mess, and if your device doesn't sample fast enough you'll missing the early response.

meanwhile if you also care about image quality the samsung units are actually preferable, with noticeably better deinterlacing and upscaling, but about 2 more frames lag. All of these devices are directly compared using the same hardware and testing methods here:

https://alantechreview.blogspot.com/202 ... t-lag.html

[Josh128]

The 2013 (AFXZA) and 2014 (BFXZA) Samsung F4500/F5300 series easily have the best IQ of any sub $1000 plasma available. I know, I currently have 4 in my home. They stomped that X60 Panasonic, which is why I sold it and replaced it with a 2014 F4500 . Input lag is acceptable on all models, but the BFXZAs are the fastest in that regard (no rolling lag).

Ive raved about them like a madman for years here, and my recent experience with the Wii U and Switch have re-inforced my stance that they have the best PQ on the planet for 720p systems, bar none. You cant beat native resolution. SML 3D is absolutely stunning on the 4500s. Sadly, Im currently working on my original 2013 set, its got a sparkly pixel wide vertical line that appeared a couple months ago. Replaced the Y-SUS board today with no effect, ordering a couple X / PSU boards as Im fairly confident that will do it.

[xeos]

The 2013 (AFXZA) and 2014 (BFXZA) Samsung F4500/F5300 series easily have the best IQ...PQ...

Not familiar with those abbreviations, can you elaborate?

[Josh128]

The PN51F4500 (720p)/5300 (1080p) 2013 series are the AFXZA models, the 2014 series are the BFXZA models. The 2014s contain updated boards and power supplies and are not compatible with the 2013 models. The 2014s have a constant lag of 37ms with a Time Sleuth tester, while the 2013's have a "rolling" lag that goes from 37-45ms then "resets" back to 37ms and repeats.

[xeos]

sorry I wasn't clear: what do you mean by PQ and IQ?"

[Josh128]

Picture/image quality. Interchangeable, not sure why I said both.