Play Station 2 Component or RGbB? Which is Better?

[erik343]

For the PS2, is component or RGbB (sync on green) better as far as video quality? I am thinking about doing component because it frees up space in my SCART switcher and it also does not require an Extron 203 rxi unit.

[Guspaz]

While people used to believe that RGB provided better quality, it was typically anecdotal and uncontrolled testing with dissimilar cabling. Later more controlled testing demonstrated that there wasn't any real difference, and that the seeming quality issues with component in the past were due to people comparing high-quality RGB cables to low-quality component cables.

In other words, when using good cables, neither provides better quality than the other.

One functional difference is that component works across all output resolutions (from 240p through 1080i), while the RGB signal changes between RGBS and RGsB depending on the resolution. This can be handled via a sync processor. For example, the gscartsw can detect RGsB on any input and automatically convert it to RGBS.

[6t8k]

Seconding all of what Guspaz wrote - I can, by the way, very much recommend the gscartsw 5.2, as you were considering to buy a Hydra switch before (I have the former, and am just now asking myself why I didn't mention that option, probably because so far I only tested its sync on green extraction one short time when I first got the device). You don't even need to toggle DIP switch #2 when switching between RGBS and RGsB input.

Conveniently, you can also use YPbPr – colloquially called component video – with it, as the pin allocation of YPbPr-via-SCART matches up with RGsB (7=RGB blue/component Pb, 11=RGB green/component Y (and sync!), 15=RGB red/component Pr). See here.

[TooBeaucoup]

I have nice Scart and component cables for my PS2 and honestly, I can't really tell a difference. A lot of times I liked to use Scart, simply because it was one plug, versus 5 cables for component. Other than that, I saw no difference.

[matt]

There are times when RGB looks better than component, but that's not due to the format itself. Some monitors do a crap job processing component or, as has been mentioned, poor quality cables will degrade the signal. Personally, on a good display I can't tell the difference between RGB and component with my PS2.

The PS2 is an annoying console for RGB because it switches back and forth between sync types depending on resolution, and lots of games won't work in 480p no matter how hard you try. Unless you want to use it only on an SD display it's easier to just leave it set to component.

[Taiyaki]

On a crt might as well go with RGB but the difference is probably not going to be noticeable.

[headlesshobbs]

I think the ossc does the best job of showcasing just how great PS2 via component can really look. Between a computer crt and my hdtv the video looks pretty damn on par with standard vga quality in most respects, but I'll make no claims on the color grade vs RGB, least I want to be part of some silly argument over which is superior.

It's pretty shameful that so many of the modern displays we had at the time weren't exactly that great when pc gaming and Dreamcast were showing us where our standards should have been. Crystal clear and sharp 480p!! ....and yet, here we are with our interlaced a/v + dot crawl.

[versionfiv]

i've always used component for PS2.
RGB is most noticeable to me on 2D titles

[scrilla4rella]

It might not be a factor but keep in mind that you can't play DVDs over SCART, so you might want to stick with component if you want to watch those anime DVDs that are too obscure to get an HD remaster.

[RocketBelt]

On my pal fat v7 ps2 at least, there is a bit of noise in the picture using component. You see it in large areas of flat dark colour. It's not that bad. On rgbs the picture is clean. This is using the same cable, a component cable with an extra composite wire for sync in rgbs mode.

There are many different models of ps2. Maybe there are some that don't have that bit of noise in component signal. But mine does.

[fernan1234]

It might not be a factor but keep in mind that you can't play DVDs over SCART, so you might want to stick with component if you want to watch those anime DVDs that are too obscure to get an HD remaster.

It can be done (DVD playback over RGB) if your PS2 is softmodded with FMCB and the like.

Then again the PS2's DVD player is not very good. A much better "modern" solution is a Pi with video playback software like Kodi, outputting 480i and/or 480p, with a USB DVD player.

[ldeveraux]

It might not be a factor but keep in mind that you can't play DVDs over SCART, so you might want to stick with component if you want to watch those anime DVDs that are too obscure to get an HD remaster.

It can be done (DVD playback over RGB) if your PS2 is softmodded with FMCB and the like.

Then again the PS2's DVD player is not very good. A much better "modern" solution is a Pi with video playback software like Kodi, outputting 480i and/or 480p, with a USB DVD player.

What about a chip modded ps2, will that work? I can honestly say I've never tried, I agree the dvd player isn't good. The ps3 however is fantastic from what I hear

[Ikaruga11]

There are times when RGB looks better than component, but that's not due to the format itself. Some monitors do a crap job processing component or, as has been mentioned, poor quality cables will degrade the signal. Personally, on a good display I can't tell the difference between RGB and component with my PS2.

The PS2 is an annoying console for RGB because it switches back and forth between sync types depending on resolution, and lots of games won't work in 480p no matter how hard you try. Unless you want to use it only on an SD display it's easier to just leave it set to component.

Didn't citrus3000psi find a way to mod the PS2 for RGBS CSync, which completely eliminates this issue?

[FBX]

Didn't citrus3000psi find a way to mod the PS2 for RGBS CSync, which completely eliminates this issue?

I recall that too, I think it involved sacrificing composite video and a little bit of modding.


At any rate, some time ago I did a comparison of component video and RGB from the PS2 and found there's no difference if the cables and your image processing method are sound. But of course, therein lies the real trick: One may look better depending on the equipment you use.

[erik343]

I decided to go with this PS2 mod: http://www.dansprojects.com/ps2sync.html

I don't have to buy a gscartsw or Extron 203 rxi converter... (as I have Shinybow SCART Switchers as of now).
Also, this generates RGBS directly and you don't have any video degradation via going through a various converters.

I also believe the only console with Sync on Green is the Playstation 2? Am I wrong about this? At least I only have one console with SoG!

Last, I think normal RGBS might have better picture quality that SoG... Not 100% sure, but that's my understanding of that. RGBS has four wires, and SoG has three wires...

EDIT:
I wanted to mention that I am going to C-SYNC mod both my PS1 and PS2 instead of using sync on luma. I am going to do this to reduce cross talk from the Y signal into the RGB signals. Also, I obviously am going to invest in fully shielded cables too. This way I will get the best picture quality. I also am waiting for the OSSC Pro to come out, and I will enjoy Chrono Cross without the black screen menu switching issue. Also, on the PS2, when in 480p mode, the picture will supposedly look better also (in theory) and you don't have to convert from RGsB to RGBS. It is more work to mod these consoles like so, but this is my new favourite hobby lol!

Thanks.

Erik W.

[matt]

Last, I think normal RGBS might have better picture quality that SoG... Not 100% sure, but that's my understanding of that. RGBS has four wires, and SoG has three wires...

It shouldn't affect picture quality. The sync pulses are outside the display range of the frame and won't interfere with the RGB signal.

I wanted to mention that I am going to C-SYNC mod both my PS1 and PS2 instead of using sync on luma. I am going to do this to reduce cross talk from the Y signal into the RGB signals. Also, I obviously am going to invest in fully shielded cables too.

If you have fully shielded cables, the C-sync mod wouldn't make a difference in picture quality. The main reason to do the mod would be if you have a display that doesn't accept composite or luma for sync.

The OSSC can accept both component video and sync on composite/luma so there's really no reason for a sync mod if that's what you're using.

[awe444]

One thing to consider is that the PS2, like the PS1, has a lot of full-frame dithering in most games. That plus there being a mix of 512-pixel-wide and 640-pixel-wide games, these having different clock/sampling rates (for 480i at least), makes it dangerously easy for a tester to get artifacts due to the dithering being incorrectly sampled. Or perhaps correctly sampled in RGsB but not component, without realizing it.

[nmalinoski]

I also believe the only console with Sync on Green is the Playstation 2? Am I wrong about this? At least I only have one console with SoG!

Stock, yes; however, it is possible to get RGsB out of an Xbox with an alternate BIOS (Which I think is mainly possible on the earlier board revisions, like 1.0 through maybe 1.4).

[erik343]

Does the XBOX natively support RGBS? I cannot find this info on the net? Does the XBOX change the output formats based on the resolution?

[6t8k]

I also believe the only console with Sync on Green is the Playstation 2? Am I wrong about this? At least I only have one console with SoG!

The PS3 also can output sync on green via its AV MULTI port in VGA mode (see here).

Last, I think normal RGBS might have better picture quality that SoG... Not 100% sure, but that's my understanding of that. RGBS has four wires, and SoG has three wires...

To add to what matt wrote, the resulting video quality of RGBS and RGsB is practically the same in comparison (all other things being equal) only if the S in your RGBS is composite sync. In common use, the S part of the RGBS quadruplet only says that composite sync must go through the S line, which is the case with sync on composite, sync on luma, and composite sync, and in most cases, functionally, these can be used interchangeably as a sync source. In the order listed, they go from higher to less (potential) crosstalk with the R,G,B lines.

Edit: I'm pretty sure the PS2 does not output composite sync exclusively on one pin through the AV MULTI port when it's unmodified, so RGsB would potentially result in a better video quality with the same cable.

[Ikaruga11]

Does the XBOX natively support RGBS? I cannot find this info on the net? Does the XBOX change the output formats based on the resolution?

OG XBOX RGBS is Sync on Composite Video and is limited to 15kHz.

[erik343]

Does the XBOX natively support RGBS? I cannot find this info on the net? Does the XBOX change the output formats based on the resolution?

OG XBOX RGBS is Sync on Composite Video and is limited to 15kHz.

I don’t understand the 15khz? What resolutions and refresh rate does that support?

[Ikaruga11]

Does the XBOX natively support RGBS? I cannot find this info on the net? Does the XBOX change the output formats based on the resolution?

OG XBOX RGBS is Sync on Composite Video and is limited to 15kHz.

I don’t understand the 15khz? What resolutions and refresh rate does that support?

480i/60Hz and 576i/50Hz

[erik343]

Thanks! I understand now...

I found the resolutions that the original XBOX supports are 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Is the Framemeister XRGB-mini compatible with all these resolutions? Will it up scale all of these resolutions properly (and I will set the FBX profile as well...)?

EDIT:
Will the OSSC work as well? I am going to buy the OSSC Pro later on...

[Einzelherz]

It might not be a factor but keep in mind that you can't play DVDs over SCART, so you might want to stick with component if you want to watch those anime DVDs that are too obscure to get an HD remaster.

It can be done (DVD playback over RGB) if your PS2 is softmodded with FMCB and the like.

Then again the PS2's DVD player is not very good. A much better "modern" solution is a Pi with video playback software like Kodi, outputting 480i and/or 480p, with a USB DVD player.

Oddly enough, I just called my PS2 slim up from the bench as my current DVD player. The reason is that it outputs 480i which my plasma processes very well. Comparing it to my 360 and kodi/vlc on the PC, it's smoother, shows fewer MPEG artifacts, and has zero interlacing artifacts.

Perhaps if I tried to get my PC to output an interlaced signal it would improve, but right now I'm very happy with the less 'digital' look on my tv.

Actually, I first noticed the difference playing back DVD rips on a flash drive inserted into the TV. It cleaned up the interlacing whereas my PC couldn't.

[fernan1234]

Oddly enough, I just called my PS2 slim up from the bench as my current DVD player. The reason is that it outputs 480i which my plasma processes very well. Comparing it to my 360 and kodi/vlc on the PC, it's smoother, shows fewer MPEG artifacts, and has zero interlacing artifacts.

Plasmas were popular while interlaced broadcasts were still the standard, so it makes sense they're good at processing interlaced video. I recommend going for interlaced output for most DVDs if a CRT or plasma (or capable video processor) is available.

I mentioned a Pi because it's easy to set them up to output 480i, as opposed to a PC where recent video cards are often not capable of doing so. I do find the Pi's 480i (via Kodi) looks a bit better than the PS2's, but not by much. The main difference is the display sizing/aspect ratio options available. It can also play ripped DVD images in various formats.

And as for getting DVD playback via RGB, the solution was to run a custom DVD player ELF file on the PS2, most simply done by loading it via uLaunchELF from USB (it can also be installed on the PS2 replacing the stock DVD player, though that's a more complicated process I never tried). The files were originally available on assemblergames, but that site is dead now: https://assemblergames.com/threads/ps2- ... ons.43968/

Perhaps a mirror for the download is floating around somewhere.