Help with my BVM-20F1U

[NyMartin]

Hey longtime lurker here,

I have my Windows 10 PC connected via HD15 VGA to BNC Cables from the ArcadeVGA Card to my BVM-20F1U. In the back I have a T-Splitter for the two Sync BNCs into the one Sync Input on the BVM.
Resolution is 640x480.
For some reason at the top of the screen after loading windows to desktop the top lines flicker and are distorted. I'm attaching images below.
When I have it connected to two monitors (one with hdmi) and extended with the BVM as a second monitor the picture is crisp all around with no flicker at the top.
Any way to fix this?

Thanks! Here are some pictures to help.


Thanks!!

[kamiboy]

Using a T-splitter is not the proper way to combine H and V sync from your graphics card, you should use a dedicated sync combiner device or circuit to do that. Furthermore I believe your graphics card is sending out TTL level sync, which is not what the BVM expects.

[kitty666cats]

Using a T-splitter is not the proper way to combine H and V sync from your graphics card, you should use a dedicated sync combiner device or circuit to do that. Furthermore I believe your graphics card is sending out TTL level sync, which is not what the BVM expects.

The BVM should be fine with TTL sync, I'm pretty sure... but yes, ideally you're gonna want something like an Extron to turn the RGBHV into RGBS. I know CRT Emudriver can do composite sync, but if it's going through a HDMI to VGA DAC an Extron/whatever brand sync combiner will probably be needed!

[Fudoh]

If you get a proper RGB interface, you can just as well convert to RGsB instead, saving you the extra sync line alltogether.

[NyMartin]

Thanks Everyone!

If you get a proper RGB interface, you can just as well convert to RGsB instead, saving you the extra sync line alltogether.

Fudoh would that be the Extron everyone is recommending?

[Fudoh]

yes, doesn't have to be a specific model. If you try "Extron RGB" on eBay, you should see what's available.

[kitty666cats]

yes, doesn't have to be a specific model. If you try "Extron RGB" on eBay, you should see what's available.

Are you sure they can convert H V / S to sync on green out? I forget, could be mistaken but the RGsB dipswitch might actually be for letting the interface know you are feeding it RGsB in AND out so it doesn't try to give you RGBS or RGBHV that most people are usually trying to get. I can't say for sure, have messed with said feature very very little... also heard conflicting reports on whether the RGsB dipswitch can work for YPbPr or not @_@

EDIT: The unit I have is a 580xi, it could very well be vastly different results on a unit-to-unit basis

[kitty666cats]

BTW, if you DO get an Extron RGB interface, 'SERR' should probably take care of that flagging for you. If not, either DDSP or COMP SYNC. MAYBEEE the V Sync Width dipswitch, but ehh most likely just SERR if you're lucky

[Fudoh]

I've been using RGsB on my BVMs since I can remember. If the interface in question has a sync on green dip switch, then it should be able to do SoG/RGsB just fine.

Also he likely doesn't need the SERR dip switch. There's nothing wrong with his source signal, it's just a fault introduced by the improper sync combination.

[kitty666cats]

I've been using RGsB on my BVMs since I can remember. If the interface in question has a sync on green dip switch, then it should be able to do SoG/RGsB just fine.

Also he likely doesn't need the SERR dip switch. There's nothing wrong with his source signal, it's just a fault introduced by the improper sync combination.

Yeah, a processor should hopefully take care of everything. Just in case he has any residual flagging, tho

I've gotta mess around with sync on green some more, I know my Sampo/Toshiba takes it ( http://mikejmoffitt.com/articles/0051-nettv-rgb.html ) <~ this thing, but I'm not sure about my JVC TM-H150CG. It's got one of the Linuxbot3000 cards, so it DOES take 15kHz RGBHV, which is always nice to have as an option.

[NyMartin]

It’s been sometime and I wanted to ask if there’s a specific Extron people would mention. Also I’m quite new at this and I don’t know some of the abbreviations you are all using. My apologies and thanks

[Fudoh]

For RGBHV to RGsB conversion any of the Extron interfaces should work. I don't know where you're from, just look at your local ebay platform and search for "Extron RGB".

[Overkill]

Which ArcadeVGA card model are you using? Old models work with Calamity CRT_EmuDrivers, and you can enable Composite Sync on it since a long time ago. If it's newer models, and you don't find a cheap Extron RGB to enable SERR switch on, you better just got a cheap used ATI HD 5000 range, or higher. Take a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YsCj55ZM1Y&t=5s

[NyMartin]

For RGBHV to RGsB conversion any of the Extron interfaces should work. I don't know where you're from, just look at your local ebay platform and search for "Extron RGB".

Thanks Fudoh I ask because I got an Extron 109xi which powers on a month ago (busy with work) and it didn't give any signal or image to the screen.
Do you think getting an AMD card with crt emudriver is easier? If so is there a dedicated thread on how to do it? I thought arcadevga would be one stop to do everything but now I just don't want it to damage my monitor.

[NyMartin]

Which ArcadeVGA card model are you using? Old models work with Calamity CRT_EmuDrivers, and you can enable Composite Sync on it since a long time ago. If it's newer models, and you don't find a cheap Extron RGB to enable SERR switch on, you better just got a cheap used ATI HD 5000 range, or higher. Take a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YsCj55ZM1Y&t=5s

Thanks it’s the 5000. as you can see in my above reply to Fudoh I got an extron a month ago (109xi) and there was no image coming on screen but the unit was powered on. I'm not sure what SERR switch is. Can you explain that to me?
Also just as I asked Fudoh, Do you think getting an AMD card with crt emudriver is easier? If so is there a dedicated thread on how to do it? I really thought by spending more on the ArcadeVGA I would have less problems.
Thanks

[Fudoh]

The 109xi should work fine (unless it's busted).

Did you go for a sync green connection to the monitor? In order to do so you have to enable the SOG dip switch on the back. You also have to set the BVM to INTERNAL SYNC. I found the composite sync outputs on the Extrons to be way more complicated to handle.

The SERR switch on the interfaces removes the serration impulses from the signal. This can help with a few systems which have similarly bended tops on PVMs and BVMs. In your case it should have been a bad sync combiner circuit instead.

[NyMartin]

The 109xi should work fine (unless it's busted).

Did you go for a sync green connection to the monitor? In order to do so you have to enable the SOG dip switch on the back. You also have to set the BVM to INTERNAL SYNC. I found the composite sync outputs on the Extrons to be way more complicated to handle.

The SERR switch on the interfaces removes the serration impulses from the signal. This can help with a few systems which have similarly bended tops on PVMs and BVMs. In your case it should have been a bad sync combiner circuit instead.

I'll be honest I don't know much about the Extrons and how to use them. I attached pics and I'm not sure which switches should be up or down. Also how do I set the BVM to Internal Sync?



When I turn on the Extron without any connections it say H00.0k V 00.0Hz. Not sure if that means anything. Also I will connect the HD15 to the VGA on the ArcadeVGA then i have 4 to 4 BNC from the Extron to the BVM

[NyMartin]

Just tried the extron again, I get a weird noise from the BVM and nothing on screen. I kept SOG on and SERR. Smh

[Fudoh]

If you're going for a 4-cable connection between th Extron and the monitor you WILL run into problems. Going a 3-cable route (just R+G+B) is much easier and more reliable. You set the monitor to internal sync in the internal. It's like setting the monitor to component instead of RGB just without switching the color space.

For the dips on the back of the Extron UP equals ON. So try ON, OFF, OFF, OFF = U, D, D, D

[NyMartin]

If you're going for a 4-cable connection between th Extron and the monitor you WILL run into problems. Going a 3-cable route (just R+G+B) is much easier and more reliable. You set the monitor to internal sync in the internal. It's like setting the monitor to component instead of RGB just without switching the color space.

For the dips on the back of the Extron UP equals ON. So try ON, OFF, OFF, OFF = U, D, D, D

Set the switches as you said and the cables/ turning on internal sync in the BVM menu as well but nothing. There are numbers showing on the front of the Extron for H and V though.

[Fudoh]

what's the reading you got on the Extron's display ?

[NyMartin]

what's the reading you got on the Extron's display ?

H15.92k
V51.7Hz

I also took a pic of the internal settings on the BVM

[Fudoh]

I would say that the 51.7 Hz of your current source signal are too far out of spec for the BVM to show it.

Can you try a 60Hz signal ?

[NyMartin]

I would say that the 51.7 Hz of your current source signal are too far out of spec for the BVM to show it.

Can you try a 60Hz signal ?

I'm sorry I'm not well versed in this. What do you mean?

[Fudoh]

The Extron shows the basic specs of your signal and it currently receives a 51.7 Hz refresh rate.

The BVMs are not really multi-sync. You can just expect them to display signals either very close to 50Hz or very close to 60Hz.

What's your output signal set to on the PC ? Resolution and refresh ?

[NyMartin]

The Extron shows the basic specs of your signal and it currently receives a 51.7 Hz refresh rate.

The BVMs are not really multi-sync. You can just expect them to display signals either very close to 50Hz or very close to 60Hz.

What's your output signal set to on the PC ? Resolution and refresh ?

This is what I see in display when I booted it up without the extron. 640x480 and 60Hz.
By the way, I've now timed it and the glitching at the top starts exactly after 10 minutes of the PC being on.

[NyMartin]

I just realized is 640x480 = 480p? because I know this model can't do 480p maybe I should put the resolution down? What is the resolution for 480i?

[Fudoh]

in 15khz it's 480i.

This is hard to diagnose, because you can't tell whether the Extron's info is wrong (for any reason) or the actual signal is off-spec.

480i can't be your desired resolution, can it? Do you want to use just for desktop use? What happens when you switch into an actual low-res like mode 240p60 display an emu running a game?

[NyMartin]

in 15khz it's 480i.

This is hard to diagnose, because you can't tell whether the Extron's info is wrong (for any reason) or the actual signal is off-spec.

480i can't be your desired resolution, can it? Do you want to use just for desktop use? What happens when you switch into an actual low-res like mode 240p60 display an emu running a game?

I'm using the PC for desktop use mainly for watching videos/ anime but I did want to play retro games on it through emulation. I didn't put any on it yet.
If that is the highest resolution where everything is spaced normally I'd be happy. Originally when I made the PC it defaulted to 640x240 at 60Hz.

Interesting thing with the ArcadeVGA and this happened yesterday after all of the posts on here, sometimes after booting the PC the ArcadeVGA defaults to 640x240 and in order to get the option of 640x480 again I have to reload setup of the Ultimarc/ArcadeVGA drivers to try and get 640x480 again.

This happened again yesterday and I have yet to go through that process of getting it back to 640x240. Is 640x240=240p?

Things look very very sharp (although too large as you will see) at this resolution but I performed a test and after using the machine for an hour there were none of the issues with the top of the screen glitching. At 640x480 the issues would pop at 10min of being on.
Do you think the issue could be with the resolution causing these sync problems at the top of the screen?

Windows 10 doesn't scale well for programs/font sizes to be able to see them fully on screen here with 640x240 as you will see in the images below. When I originally had to install things I had to use a different monitor because 640x240 wouldn't let me see the full install window to press things on the BVM.

If it means I won't get the sync problems at the top of the screen I'm willing to keep it this way (Anyone know if I can connect a second screen to the ArcadeVGA to extend displays?)

Here's the pictures of the difference:
desktop at 640x480

desktop at 640x240


Again I'm sorry with all these questions and I appreciate your time to try and help me with this!

[kitty666cats]

Anyone know if I can connect a second screen to the ArcadeVGA to extend displays?

Most definitely. With the DVI-I port (it has one, yeah?). That gives you a 'safe' monitor so you aren't going into stuff blindly and can tweak stuff with far more ease!